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The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38365
06/02/04 01:58 PM
06/02/04 01:58 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
The other topic was getting beyond whether or not mackerel has scales or doesn't have scales, therefore, I created this new topic.

First of all, according to the Bible, it isn't a sin to eat clean meat, however, the eating of unclean meat is a sin.

An important principle is given here, the distinction between clean meat and unclean meat. In regards to the health principle given here, clean meat in Christ's day, such as fish, could be unclean meat in our day, such as the same kind of fish that Christ ate back then.

What about when even clean meat becomes knowingly unclean?

Does it then become a sin to eat it when you know it is no longer good for you for food?

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38366
06/03/04 03:20 AM
06/03/04 03:20 AM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
I don't understand something, Daryl. You said,

quote:
clean meat in Christ's day, such as fish, could be unclean meat in our day
How is that? If God declares something clean or unclean, that's what it is. And that's what it stays.

Now, something can become unhealthy, even though it's Biblically clean; as in the case of clean fish retaining mercury within their bodies, etc. In cases like that I'd agree that it's a sin to eat even clean meat that has become unhealthy.

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38367
06/02/04 05:40 PM
06/02/04 05:40 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
That's what I was referring to when I said something clean biblically could in reality become unclean as in unhealthy.

I am not aware that the Bible actually speaks about any such transition, however, I believe the writings of EGW does.

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38368
06/02/04 06:12 PM
06/02/04 06:12 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
I came across 2 verses in the Bible that seem to refer to the sufferings of the creatures God has made in our current situation i.e. Mass cullings of chickens and any avian on commercia land hobby farms, feeding cattle meat parts ground up in feed, cruelty such as some stories you can find at meatstinks.org

Here are the verses:
quote:

Romans 8:22
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Joel 1:18
18 How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.

These verses stuck out and seem to have a significance in what we see today. However I could also be incorrect so do let me know.
God Bless,
Will

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38369
06/03/04 12:52 AM
06/03/04 12:52 AM
D
danielw  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 265
Japan
Eating meat is a sin unless all the blood is drained out first - ie: kosher.

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38370
06/03/04 08:51 AM
06/03/04 08:51 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Anyone care to ignore this?:

"Moral principle, strictly carried out, becomes the only safeguard of the soul. If ever there was a time when the diet should be of the most simple kind, it is now.
Meat should not be placed before our children.

Its influence is to excite and strengthen the lower passions, and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers.
Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven.

The less feverish the diet, the more easily can the passions be controlled.


{now.......read this next line slowly... Ikan}

Gratification of taste should not be consulted irrespective of
1.physical,
2.intellectual, or
3.moral health."
{CD 63.3}

As I read this last sentence, IF I do consult my taste for meat, "clean", kosher, whatever, and continue to eat it with the excuse that I see myself as physically healthy, smart and moral, than I have injured my status for translation. Yes or No?
(Translation, not anything but that event is mentioned....)

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38371
06/03/04 12:09 PM
06/03/04 12:09 PM
D
danielw  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 265
Japan
Yes.

Surely no one preparing for eternal life from the tree of life is going to relish eating dead animals here.

To actually show anyone from the Bible tho, where it is a sin to eat meat - i've never seen it except for meat as is usually served - with the blood cooked in it. That is definitely a sin.

I really think one reason/result for the saints going thru the time of trouble is to wean them from all the junk food they've filled their bodies with here (yes, i know we will be translated, but still). Only bread and water will be sure for us then. I like to think of that whenever i see the crows - even when they make everybody in the neighborhood hate them by making a mess by pecking holes in our garbage bags - haha. [Tasty]

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38372
06/04/04 03:07 AM
06/04/04 03:07 AM
debbie  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,116
USA
Not just the blood but also eating the fat was forbidden.

Take those two things away from meat and you have taken away the flavor. Also there is uric acid which is all through the meat according to Mrs. White in CDF.

Nah, I'll pass on eating meat!! [Smile]

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38373
06/03/04 07:16 PM
06/03/04 07:16 PM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Yo también.

One thing about meat is that by definition all meat contains substances that are poison to mammals. All mammals, humans included, due to cell respiration are constantly expelling waste products that are carried in the bloodstream and the lymphatic system, and end up being excreted as sweat, carbon dioxide, urine, and fecal matter. Some form of these wastes are always traveling to their ultimate destination, as long as the animal's alive. (That's why eating of blood is forbidden -- it's chock-full of poisons.)

When an animal is killed, that process stops...uh...dead. All the waste product that was headed for the sweat glands, bladder, colon, etc. stops in its tracks. Waste products that at the moment of death were still located in the muscles, stay in the muscles. So when we eat meat, i.e. animal muscle tissue, we're also eating the poisons contained in that muscle, that never had a chance to be expelled from the animal's body.

That's one reason human life spans dropped off so drastically after the Flood. (Compare Genesis chapter 5 with chapter 11.) Another reason is that the globe of water that encircled the earth (Gen. 1:7 - "the waters which were above the firmament") fell to earth during the Flood rains, and no longer would protect the earth from ultraviolet radiation; but the eating of meat that commenced after the Flood played a definite role.

Re: The Dynamics of Eating Flesh Food & Vegetarian Food #38374
06/04/04 03:18 AM
06/04/04 03:18 AM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Here's an interesting passage I just ran across, that gives some perspective:

"The question whether we shall eat butter, meat, or cheese, is not to be presented to anyone as a test, but we are to educate and to show the evils of the things that are objectionable. Those who gather up these things and drive them upon others, do not know what work they are doing. The Word of God has given tests to His people. The keeping of God's holy law, the Sabbath, is a test, a sign between God and His people throughout their generations forever. Forever this is the burden of the third angel's message -- the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
{2MR 107.1}

"Tea, coffee, tobacco, and alcohol we must present as sinful indulgences. We cannot place on the same ground, meat, eggs, butter, cheese and such articles placed upon the table. These are not to be borne in front, as the burden of our work. The former -- tea, coffee, tobacco, beer, wine, and all spirituous liquors -- are not to be taken moderately, but discarded. The poisonous narcotics are not to be treated in the same way as the subject of eggs, butter, and cheese. In the beginning animal food was not designed to be the diet of man. We have every evidence that the flesh of dead animals is dangerous because of disease that is fast becoming universal, because of the curse resting more heavily in consequence of the habits and crimes of man. We are to present the truth. We are to be guarded how to use reason and select those articles of food that will make the very best blood and keep the blood in an unfevered condition." -- MS 5, 1881.
{2MR 107.2}
So while the teaching of a vegetarian/vegan diet is important, there are things that are more important in the overall scheme of things.

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