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"Easter" Questions #183308
04/16/17 09:42 PM
04/16/17 09:42 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
OK. Please don't criticize until you read the whole post here. Today, I read the current pope's Easter message. I thought it was quite good, as far as it went. In part, this is what he said:

Quote:
“Jesus has risen from the dead,” Francis said. “And this is not a fantasy. It’s not a celebration with many flowers [pointing at the arrangements surrounding him]. This is beautiful, but [the resurrection] is more.”


Quote:
“It is the mystery of the thrown-away stone, that ends up being the cornerstone of our existence. Christ has risen from the dead. In this throwaway culture, where that which is not useful takes the path of the use-and-throw, where that which is not useful is discarded, that stone that was discarded is the fountain of life,”


(https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/04/16/resurrection-not-fantasy-pope-francis-insists-easter-sunday/)

So to be clear, i am in no way criticizing what the pope said. I actually think it was quite nicely done.

The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183310
04/17/17 04:16 AM
04/17/17 04:16 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Which should be our focus?

Both!

Without the suffering and the cross, their would be no "power of resurrection".
Without the resurrection Christ's death on the cross would be in vain for death would still be the end.


Applying the events to us -- as Romans 6 does.
We too, through Christ, must suffer death to sin, that we might rise to newness of life in Him.

Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183312
04/17/17 05:12 AM
04/17/17 05:12 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Yes! I certainly agree with what you wrote dedication. I found this quote which seems to illustrate further:

The disciples of Christ, as Jews, had been educated to hate the Samaritans, and this was a lesson that would be of great benefit to them in their future experience. Jesus would have them understand that there were many precious souls among the Samaritans who would not refuse to come to the Gospel feast. This Samaritan that had returned to give praise to God was no mean citizen, and he would prove an effective witness for Christ. After the resurrection and ascension of Christ, he would bear decided witness that Christ was the Son of God. He would repeat the story of his restoration, and with a heart full of intense love and interest, he would say to those with whom he came in contact, "Will you believe in Jesus?" It was testimonies of this kind that turned men from the established teachings and endless repetitions and worthless traditions of the scribes and Pharisees. Unlearned men testified to the power of Christ, and spoke boldly of the grace of God, and their glowing testimonies were placed in sharp contrast to the heartless, exacting ritual of the Pharisees. And the people were constrained to say that these men had been with Jesus, and had learned of him.
{ST, June 25, 1896 par. 6}


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183313
04/17/17 05:13 AM
04/17/17 05:13 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
I find it very interesting how the word "constrained" was used in the above quote. smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183325
04/17/17 11:02 AM
04/17/17 11:02 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
A very nice reflection! Tx for the opportunity for us to indulge also.

The first thing that came to mind is no life-resurrection can happen without first having the death & burial of the seed. The old is passed away and the new is present & today.

Death comes first and Paul tells us that it is our "old man" that needs to die and is crucified with Christ at the cross (Rom6:6; Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). And that Death needs to be destroyed(1Cor 15:26)...right?

Originally Posted By: The Wonderer
It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

I do understand why you have this question as in our church we are taught to focus on Christ death rather than His resurrection while some other denomination like to focus on His resurrection. I think both focus can be wrong if God's truth is not well presented.

But I do think that the resurrection is more important than the death for 3 reasons.

For sure we are to meditate on Christ life & death as it illuminates the path to the cross that we also all have to undergo. However, I don't think that His death is the central point of God's gospel;but rather it is His resurrection. If there's no resurrection, then what's the point of Him[us] dying. right?

Point One: It is the hope of the resurrection that makes the long undesired [spiritual]death of the "old man" process bearable. Ro 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

We are still all following that "death" process-path that Jesus showed us that ultimately leads to the cross.

No one of us has experienced Christ full resurrection yet.

However, we all have undergone and tasted small "resurrection" experiences as we go thru the 3 veils(==tearing of the flesh - Heb 10:20) and we enter the 3 compartments of the sanctuary service. These depicts the 3 phases of our spiritual growth : Passover(baby-congregation : circumcision & baptism); Pentecost(adolescent-Levites: hearing God's voice and learning His laws-will); Tabernacle(Sons-Priests: enter our calling and we only do what we see the Father do, and only say what we hear our Father say).

Each of these veils represents a [spiritual] death that we all have to undergo. And on the other side of these veils is a "small" resurrection as we enter the new life stage that is found inside each compartment of the sanctuary.

Point Two: I think once we experience a [spiritual] death as "the tearing of our flesh"(==our carnality) happens as we pass thru a veil, is we leave that old sheded dead skin (of our immature babyhood or foolish adolescent behavior) behind and we focus on the new life that is found on the other side of the 3 veils.

As a comparison, What does a woman with child remember most? the pain of the childbirth or the birth & the new life of the born child?


Blessings
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: Elle] #183371
04/20/17 09:38 PM
04/20/17 09:38 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Elle
A very nice reflection! Tx for the opportunity for us to indulge also.

The first thing that came to mind is no life-resurrection can happen without first having the death & burial of the seed. The old is passed away and the new is present & today.

Death comes first and Paul tells us that it is our "old man" that needs to die and is crucified with Christ at the cross (Rom6:6; Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). And that Death needs to be destroyed(1Cor 15:26)...right?

[quote=The Wonderer]It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

No one of us has experienced Christ full resurrection yet.
I agree, our experience falls short, because of the humanity factor. I have sometimes wondered what place, texts like Gal 6:14 would have in telling people "The Easter Story?"

Long ago, I memorized a quote from EGW regarding "the cross:" and it goes like this:

Quote:
"There is only One central truth around which all other truths cluster...Christ and Him crucified. All other truths are invested with power and influence according to their relation to this theme."
It can be found in several places in her writings. I am currently contemplating how to apply this principle to "Easter."


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183374
04/20/17 10:43 PM
04/20/17 10:43 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
How about applying it to the "Passover" story instead, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread instead of "Easter?" Christians celebrate "Good Friday" and "Easter" as if these DAYS are important (Friday and Sunday) when the truth is that it is Passover, the Sabbaths (of the feasts), and Wave Sheaf that are the true symbols, and they could happen on any day of the week in the Jewish economy. If one's thrust is to promote a false Sabbath (7th-day), then lets push Easter Sunday, and ignore the whole meaning of the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread! The last thing the Christian world is seeking is to remove the Leaven, which is the central theme to Christ and Him crucified.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: APL] #183375
04/20/17 10:57 PM
04/20/17 10:57 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: APL
If one's thrust is to promote a false Sabbath (7th-day), then lets push Easter Sunday, and ignore the whole meaning of the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread!
I don't think that the typical "Easter Sunday" has any functions that would promote a false Sabbath. That does not seem to fit with my OP either. But if you have some clear documentation about this, it would be worth looking at. How does "Easter Sunday" promote a "false Sabbath?" smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183378
04/21/17 01:32 AM
04/21/17 01:32 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
"Easter Sunday" is already a false idea. In the type, Christ was raised on the day of First Fruits, which could have been on any day of the week. Yes Christians promote a false idea that Sunday replaces Sabbath because it is the day the Christ was resurrected. Easter is rarely if ever "celebrated" on the real day according to the Passover Feast type.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: "Easter" Questions [Re: The Wanderer] #183379
04/21/17 02:16 AM
04/21/17 02:16 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
OK. Please don't criticize until you read the whole post here. Today, I read the current pope's Easter message. I thought it was quite good, as far as it went. In part, this is what he said:

Quote:
“Jesus has risen from the dead,” Francis said. “And this is not a fantasy. It’s not a celebration with many flowers [pointing at the arrangements surrounding him]. This is beautiful, but [the resurrection] is more.”


Quote:
“It is the mystery of the thrown-away stone, that ends up being the cornerstone of our existence. Christ has risen from the dead. In this throwaway culture, where that which is not useful takes the path of the use-and-throw, where that which is not useful is discarded, that stone that was discarded is the fountain of life,”


(https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/04/16/resurrection-not-fantasy-pope-francis-insists-easter-sunday/)

So to be clear, i am in no way criticizing what the pope said. I actually think it was quite nicely done.

The topic of the resurrection seems to come into most prominence and recognition around this time of year. But I must confess it is only because of my birthday being this time of year, that I recall this amazing theme from the Bible.

It did get me to thinking about something though. I always enjoy any focus on the resurrection, but most years, I am left wondering why so much focus on the resurrection, with so little focus on the crucifixion, or the life of our Lord?

I think of a verse that helps me to sum up my many questions:

Quote:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Phil 3:10)

Years ago, I was holding the hand of an elderly gentleman as he was dying, and something made me pick up his Bible with one hand and just start to leaf casually through it. The first thing that caught my eye was this text, scrawled in his hand writing. I turned to this man who was dying and told him what I saw, and he gripped my hand tight, smiled, and died.

I will never forget this text, and this text leads to my summary of all my other questions. World leaders and pastors everywhere, if they do celebrate Easter, usually focus on the resurrection. But this text mentions two things:

1) "the power of His resurrection..."
2) "the fellowship of His sufferings..."

Which of these two should we focus on more and why? What should each of these two phrases should manifest most in our daily life, and how should that look to the outside world?


We seem to give such consideration to the Papacy. I never trust what they say anymore. I don't trust their words , even though they sound good and right, to have the correct meaning in their hearts. The Papacy that is.

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