Posted By: Daryl
Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 03:50 AM
Where did Cain's wife come from?
Where Did Cain's Wife Come From?
Posted By: John H.
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 07:02 AM
She was his sister, or niece, or great-niece, or some such close relative.
Posted By: Ikan
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 09:18 AM
Since we are not give a time-table by Moses when he wrote the Genesis, we cannot assume that Cain's marriage was an incestial one, and since the Lord had very strict taboos against marriages of this kind, I assume that Cain's story is hundreds of years beyond the banishment from Eden. Human progenity was up until 50 years ago very abundant, normal families of 10 or more common just a century and ahalf ago. How much more in Cain and Abel's day.
Consider: we are Not told:
1.that they were Adam and Eve's only children
2.when the story happened
3.how large families were to those with much purer human powers than today.
Cain's wife was a very distant relative....not as distant as your wife...but we are all children of Adam and Eve.
Consider: we are Not told:
1.that they were Adam and Eve's only children
2.when the story happened
3.how large families were to those with much purer human powers than today.
Cain's wife was a very distant relative....not as distant as your wife...but we are all children of Adam and Eve.
Posted By: vastergotland
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 09:45 AM
quote:Doesnt this reasoning only put the problem further away? While it may be true in the specific case of cain, could it possibly be true for all of the marriages back then? Ikan, Adams first grandchild, where both of its parents adams children?
Originally posted by Ikan:
Since we are not give a time-table by Moses when he wrote the Genesis, we cannot assume that Cain's marriage was an incestial one, and since the Lord had very strict taboos against marriages of this kind, I assume that Cain's story is hundreds of years beyond the banishment from Eden.
Cain's wife was a very distant relative....not as distant as your wife...but we are all children of Adam and Eve.
/Thomas
Posted By: John H.
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 02:10 PM
Thinking about it logically -- somewhere, sometime, somebody had to marry their sibling. Otherwise, the only people on the face of the earth would have been Adam, Eve, and their children. For Adam and Eve to have grandchildren, at least two of their children had to get together and reproduce. There's no other way it could have happened. Unless Adam had relations with one of his daughters, or Eve with one of her sons. And that's not something God would approve! ([edit] It'd be adultery, just for starters...)
It is possible that Cain waited for generations to marry some more distantly-related woman -- but if so, where did that woman come from? Again we're right back at square one. That more distant relative had to be the descendant of a sibling union somewhere along the line, whether Cain himself was involved in a sibling union or not.
Back then there wouldn't have been the restriction against sibling marriages, because the gene pool wasn't corrupted as it would become later on, since sin was a new phenomenon and its effects hadn't had time to snowball so much. Even as far along as Abraham's time, he married his half-sister Sarah without condemnation or ill effect. And that was after the gene pool had been narrowed down again to those proceeding from Noah's family.
The first Bible record of a taboo against marrying one's sibling that I can find doesn't appear until Moses' time -- Lev. 18 & 20. Are there any earlier ones?
[ April 28, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: John ]
It is possible that Cain waited for generations to marry some more distantly-related woman -- but if so, where did that woman come from? Again we're right back at square one. That more distant relative had to be the descendant of a sibling union somewhere along the line, whether Cain himself was involved in a sibling union or not.
Back then there wouldn't have been the restriction against sibling marriages, because the gene pool wasn't corrupted as it would become later on, since sin was a new phenomenon and its effects hadn't had time to snowball so much. Even as far along as Abraham's time, he married his half-sister Sarah without condemnation or ill effect. And that was after the gene pool had been narrowed down again to those proceeding from Noah's family.
The first Bible record of a taboo against marrying one's sibling that I can find doesn't appear until Moses' time -- Lev. 18 & 20. Are there any earlier ones?
[ April 28, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: John ]
Posted By: Ikan
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 04:07 PM
Good points, gents. Never thought of it like that.
But I find this sort of question sorta kin to gnat straining. What next? The age old question about Adam's navel?
But I find this sort of question sorta kin to gnat straining. What next? The age old question about Adam's navel?
Posted By: Mountain Man
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/28/04 05:02 PM
During family worship the other day my wife and I were reading through Genesis, and we asked the same question that has been asked here. We noticed that by the time Cain killed Abel there were already alot of people scattered abroad, which made it necessary for God to mark Cain to protect him against future revenge and retaliation after he had to leave home.
But the Genesis account is written in such a way that it gives the impression there were only four people alive when Cain killed Abel. But obviously there were already alot of people living all over the place by then. Adam was 130 years old when Eve gave birth to Seth, whom Eve considered to be a replacement for Abel.
It seems very unlikely that in 130 years Adam and Eve only produced 3 boys. I imagine her being pregnant and giving birth every year 700 or 800 years. And in turn her off spring doing the same thing from the time they were 20 or so years old. Under such circumstances by the time Cain killed Abel, which was probably 129 years after Adam and Eve were created, there would have been hundreds and thousands of people on the earth.
But why didn't Moses, when he wrote Genesis, mention all the other children Adam and Eve produced before Cain and Abel were born? and their children, and grandchildren, etc.? Also, the geneological record in the Bible leads one to believe Seth was Adam's first born. Why?
But the Genesis account is written in such a way that it gives the impression there were only four people alive when Cain killed Abel. But obviously there were already alot of people living all over the place by then. Adam was 130 years old when Eve gave birth to Seth, whom Eve considered to be a replacement for Abel.
It seems very unlikely that in 130 years Adam and Eve only produced 3 boys. I imagine her being pregnant and giving birth every year 700 or 800 years. And in turn her off spring doing the same thing from the time they were 20 or so years old. Under such circumstances by the time Cain killed Abel, which was probably 129 years after Adam and Eve were created, there would have been hundreds and thousands of people on the earth.
But why didn't Moses, when he wrote Genesis, mention all the other children Adam and Eve produced before Cain and Abel were born? and their children, and grandchildren, etc.? Also, the geneological record in the Bible leads one to believe Seth was Adam's first born. Why?
Posted By: John H.
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/29/04 12:27 AM
I guess Moses only mentioned the ones that are important to world history, or to the history of the people of God. Cain and Abel were important because they were involved in the first murder. Moses recounts human lineage through Seth because all other lineages were wiped out in the Flood -- Noah was descended from Seth, and therefore every human who's lived since the Flood is descended from Seth too. Including Jesus.
The Jewish historian Josephus said that tradition had Adam and Eve producing 33 sons and 23 daughters. We don't know if that's actually true, but it's sure plausible. God did tell them to "be fruitful and multiply," and they lived a long time.
The Jewish historian Josephus said that tradition had Adam and Eve producing 33 sons and 23 daughters. We don't know if that's actually true, but it's sure plausible. God did tell them to "be fruitful and multiply," and they lived a long time.
Posted By: Ikan
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/29/04 07:35 AM
This "strained gnat" is actually a bit interesting after all....but nobody has addressed my pressing, burning question concerning Adam's belly-button! ![[Animated Laughter]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
Posted By: John H.
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/29/04 02:47 PM
You mean whether he had one or not; or whether it was or innie or outie? ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
Maybe God made "faux" belly-buttons for him and Eve so they wouldn't look different from their kids.
Or maybe He didn't give them belly-buttons, so they'd stand out as being the Mother and Father of all living.
I reckon we'll have to wait for the first resurrection for the answer to any of that! They'll be there. Let's make sure we are.![[Pray or Praying or Prayer]](graemlins/pray.gif)
Maybe God made "faux" belly-buttons for him and Eve so they wouldn't look different from their kids.
Or maybe He didn't give them belly-buttons, so they'd stand out as being the Mother and Father of all living.
I reckon we'll have to wait for the first resurrection for the answer to any of that! They'll be there. Let's make sure we are.
Posted By: Mountain Man
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/29/04 08:33 PM
I'm more interested in finding out if we'll be equiped in the New Earth to use the washroom. I just can't imagine having to dig leach fields and set septic tanks for sewer in heaven or the New Earth.
Posted By: vastergotland
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 04/29/04 11:44 PM
On the way this thread is moving, a fundamental question is what a human is and what are nessessary parts for a person to still be human. If for instance one would (for the sake of discussion) considder the idea so many other christians have that the soul of the dead leaves the body after death. Question then follows if a soul without a body would still be a human. So are belly-buttons and the natural processes of nutrition nessessary for our defninition of what a human is...
/Thomas
/Thomas
Posted By: Will
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/30/04 01:04 PM
Cains wife was a descendant of Adam & Eve:
God Bless,
Will
quote:I give God the glory for showing this to me while studying the boook of Acts with our prayer group every week. It is amazing at how God will give you knowledge and have His Holy Spirit teach you.
Acts 17:26
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; KJV
----------------------------------------------
26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, NASB
God Bless,
Will
Posted By: Avalee
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/30/04 05:02 PM
quote:I agree with Mike....I just do not believe we will have to be concerned with that stuff in the New Earth. I believe that our new bodies will just use everything and there will be no need for that function anymore. Can you imagine having to dig sewars, making Tolet Paper, etc. on the New Earth. Some people find it hard to believe that there will be some things that our bodies do on this earth now that we will not do on the New Earth. I have no problem with beieving anything. My God can do ANYTHING. There is no reason why our bodies will not just assimilate all food eaten. This is a much better idea than the other way.
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
I'm more interested in finding out if we'll be equiped in the New Earth to use the washroom. I just can't imagine having to dig leach fields and set septic tanks for sewer in heaven or the New Earth.
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
Posted By: Restin
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/30/04 05:44 PM
We don't cease to be human beings just because there might be the modification of some body parts. I also believe our matabolism will be changed, as well as our defects, at Christ's second coming. With perfect digestion of perfect food, we may not need to eliminate waste. In his mercy, God made changes in us and animals , to deal with sinful, faulty earth. A Lion's teeth and claws, plus digestive organs, made to eat flesh, is an example. A domestic cat needs sharp teeth and claws to protect against larger animals. A cat will still be a cat in the new earth, even with modified teeth and stomach, for a vegetarian diet. So, I have no trouble with the idea of not needing restrooms in heaven. God also will probably modify the female body so that she need not deal with "the curse" every month, as they used to call it. About navels, I agree with you above who say it doesn't really matter big time, but we do know that when God created the earth it had the appearance of being older than it was...full grown trees, rivers running, adult animals. God didn't just plant seed and wait for them to grow through the stages they would thereafter. So, if Adam had a navel, it's not so weird an idea, actually. I agree that much of these will be marvelous topics to discuss around our living rooms in our "mansions" promised us in heaven.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/31/04 06:37 AM
It is obvious that Adam and Eve bore Cain and Abel, however, there are not any records of another birth until Seth, who is mentioned as a replacement of the deceased Abel.
But there is mentioned a passing of time:
The fact that Cain was marked for protection purposes testifies to this:
We also do not know who gave birth to Cain's wife. It could have been Adam & Eve, or it could have been from one of their offsprings, or even another person's offsprings. Remember there was a process or passing of time before Cain slew Abel.
But there is mentioned a passing of time:
quote:During this process or passing of time, Adam and Eve obviously gave birth to other children who eventually grew up and bore children of their own, so on and so forth.
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Genesis 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
The fact that Cain was marked for protection purposes testifies to this:
quote:The following verses then speak about Cain's dwelling place, and first speaks about Cain's wife:
Genesis 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Genesis 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
quote:It doesn't say when Cain married his wife. They could have been married prior to his slaying Abel.
Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
We also do not know who gave birth to Cain's wife. It could have been Adam & Eve, or it could have been from one of their offsprings, or even another person's offsprings. Remember there was a process or passing of time before Cain slew Abel.
Posted By: dedication
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/31/04 06:47 AM
"Gen. 5:3-4 "When Adam had lived 130 years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. After Seth's birth Adam lived another 800 years. HE HAD OTHER SONS AND DAUGHTERS"
The geneological record traces the family line-- the patriarch of the "tribe". Seth was Noah's ancestor-- and also it was through Seth's line -- who was the ancestor of Noah -- who was the ancester of Abraham -- who was the ancestor of Judah -- that Christ was born. Thus that line is the one followed most closely in scripture.
Posted By: Restin
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/31/04 04:14 PM
I used to wonder why the bible leaves out so much, until I read somewhere that if it included extensive info on everything it would be so large, or so many volumes, that it's distribution would be very much hampered. As it is, it's a manageable size, albeit the pages must be thin and the lettering fonts very small. God knows what He's doing. We have enough to show us the way to the Kingdom. The Bible needs to be readily available to all people.
Posted By: Sarah Moss
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/31/04 08:35 PM
A couple of thoughts.
1. As to the process of elimination in heaven, I have come to believe that with the perfect food, there is little to no elimination necessary. For example... my son's sole food is breastmilk - God's design for human babies. In the last month or so, his digestive system has developed to the point that he only has a bowel movement every 6 days or so. Pretty good! God's food is perfect and our bodies are perfectly made for it!
2. The Bible doesn't even say that Cain was Adam and Eve's firstborn son. We just assume he was because of the way it is written and that we are not told of any other children.
3. Even in Abraham's day it was still acceptable to a degree to marry one's sibling - Sarah was Abraham's 1/2 sister. And, Abraham sent his servant to his family to find a wife for Isaac - Rebekah was Isaac's cousin. It's not too far fetched to realize that Adam & Eve's children had to marry each other since there was no one else alive on earth.
My 2 cents worth anyway.
1. As to the process of elimination in heaven, I have come to believe that with the perfect food, there is little to no elimination necessary. For example... my son's sole food is breastmilk - God's design for human babies. In the last month or so, his digestive system has developed to the point that he only has a bowel movement every 6 days or so. Pretty good! God's food is perfect and our bodies are perfectly made for it!
2. The Bible doesn't even say that Cain was Adam and Eve's firstborn son. We just assume he was because of the way it is written and that we are not told of any other children.
3. Even in Abraham's day it was still acceptable to a degree to marry one's sibling - Sarah was Abraham's 1/2 sister. And, Abraham sent his servant to his family to find a wife for Isaac - Rebekah was Isaac's cousin. It's not too far fetched to realize that Adam & Eve's children had to marry each other since there was no one else alive on earth.
My 2 cents worth anyway.
Posted By: Will
Re: Where Did Cain's Wife Come From? - 05/31/04 08:55 PM
If I understand correctly the act of brother & sister marrying was condemned in the book of Leviticus, so perhaps before that time it was Ok and the children were free from defects which results from inbreeding.
God Bless,
Will
God Bless,
Will