Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales?

Posted By: Daryl

Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 12:29 AM

According to Leviticus 11:9-12 (quoted below), we are not to eat anything of the water that doesn't have both fins and scales.

quote:

Leviticus 11:9 "These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat.

Leviticus 11:10 But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is an abomination to you.

Leviticus 11:11 They shall remain an abomination to you; of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall have in abomination.

Leviticus 11:12 Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is an abomination to you.

Here is my question: Does mackerel have both fins and scales?
Posted By: Ikan

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 01:44 AM

For the life of me, I can't figure out where folks got the strange idea that Adventists can keep Jewish Kosher laws...Don't folks know how destructive this is to our witness? How can we battle other christian's arguments that we are "Jewish" when we continue to ignore God's counsels:

"Vegetables, fruits, and grains should compose our diet. Not an ounce of flesh meat should enter our stomachs. The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's original purpose in the creation of man. {CD 380.2}

"The Lord intends to bring His people back to live upon simple fruits, vegetables, and grains. He led the children of Israel into the wilderness where they could not get a flesh diet; and He gave them bread from heaven..."And the mixed multitude that was among them fell a lusting and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat? We remember the fish we did eat in Egypt so freely; and the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlic. But now our soul is dried away; and there is nothing at all besides this manna before our eyes." Because they were so determined to have the flesh of dead animals, He gave them the very diet He had withheld from them." {SpM 46.1}

Oh...I'm not saying you aren't an Adventist if you eat dead animals, not at all. But please, somebody show me where it is written that we should keep Kosher!
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 01:58 AM

Somebody told me today that mackerel doesn't have scales, therefore, I am simply asking for a verification on this.
Posted By: John H.

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 02:23 AM

A few years back I saved a web page listing kosher and non-kosher fish to disk, from a site that's no longer in operation (had a premonition!) According to that page, mackerel are kosher/clean. Since then I've read that mackerel have very small scales, leading some to believe that they don't have them.

Below is the section on mackerel from that page, which was in the "Kosher Fish" section:

quote:
Mackerels and tunas (Family Scombridae), Including: Mackerels (Scomber species, Scomberomorus species, Auxis species); Spanish mackerels, cero, and sierra (Scomberomorus species); King mackerel or kingfish (Scomberomorus cavalla); Bonitos (Sarda species); Wahoo (Acanthocybius solanderi); tunas (Thunnus species, Euthynnus species); Skipjack tunas (Euthynnus or Katsuwonus species); Albacore (thunnus alalunga)
But not including: Snake mackerels

Ikan, of course it's better to be veggie/vegan. But some among our number haven't gotten to that point yet, and for those people it's good to be able to tell them which meats are clean and which aren't, don't you think? If we have members eating fish I'd sure rather see them eating clean fish than unclean.
Posted By: Ikan

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 03:00 AM

Oh, I agree, John; there are many among us here too that have not "gotten to that point", and far be it from me to brow-beat anyone over their diets!

But, Kosher doesn't work well today. Why? Pollution and humanly engendered epidemic disease, vastly higher than 500 BC Hebrews ever could have dreamed it to be, over-ride simple A or B Kosher choices.
I suppose that's why God sent His Messenger, EGW, to "update" us in this Industrial Nightmare Age.

Let's look at mackerel, realistically, out of the sanitary looking cans and well lit Seafood case down at the Kroger's:
Warning #1

Warning #2

Warning #3

Would not my warning our brothers and sisters about the dangers of meat eating be my moral duty, as much as being understanding of their reluctance to change their diets to God's more healthy way?

It's all about our own good, this Health Reform of God's, not punishment, torture or masochism.

You're no use has a soldier if you are out of action due to bad canteen habits!
Posted By: debbie

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 03:24 AM

When I was converted at age 15, the first thing I was convicted on was to give up eating clean meat. It wasn't all that hard since I was at a boarding academy and no meat was served to the kids.

But later I had a hard time with fish. I always liked it. My whole family were SDA but still ate clean meat. The Lord knew I was tempted with eating fish, so He arranged for me to marry a fisherman. My husband is a Bristol Bay Commercial salmon Fisherman in Alaska each summer. (We are also close to being vegan) I watched how the salmon were canned one day. My "love affair" with fish was over! Some of those fish were full of worms. And the canning people couldn't care less if they were or not, they were ALL canned. I'm talking about the expensive sockeye salmon.

YES, we need to stay away from all meat. God asks us to stay away from it and not include it in our diet and He has many reasons for it. But mostly so that we will be in good health.
Posted By: John H.

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 04:33 AM

Yeesh! Glad I'm near-vegan as well.

BTW, y'know what I think is worse than fish? Dairy products. (Don't let me get started! [Wink] Guess that'd be off topic anyway.)
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 04:40 AM

Dairy products?

You can always create a new topic, John, on dairy products. [Smile]
Posted By: debbie

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 05:31 AM

Go for it John!!! Don't get me started on cheese...I have a love/hate relationship with it. But I'll save that for Johns new topic...
Posted By: Ikan

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 03:50 PM

If Adventists are seriously concerned about ancient Kosher laws, that Biblical meat eating bars the eating of crustaceans — aquatic animals with skeletons outside their bodies, including shrimp, crab and lobsters, then they should rightly obey them, true?.

So.....How do today's modern Adventist "clean meat eaters" justify snickering at this?


"...and swallow a camel.."


Your Baptist neighbor sees your diet as on a par with these guys....ask them...I dare ya!

Sure; it's no snap to wean yourself from your favorite meats, but isn't your witness, if not your health worth it?

It was a serious stumbling block for me, as a new convert from the non-SDA world when I read EGW, and saw folks at pot-lucks go veggie, but at home eat beef and such.

[ June 01, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Ikan ]
Posted By: danielw

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/01/04 04:25 PM

Cero Mackerel
quote:
Bloch described the cero mackerel as Scomberomorus regalis in 1793. The genus Scomberomorus is derived from the Latin word "scomber" = mackerel and the Greek word "moros" = silly, stupid. Regalis is from the Latin language, meaning royal.

The body is covered with small scales...

King Mackerel
quote:
The entire body is covered with rudimentary scales, except for its pectoral fin. The lateral line drops sharply after the second dorsal fin, and then continues on to the tail, distinguishing it from the cero mackerel (Scomberomorus regalis). The king mackerel also lacks scales on the pectoral fins as does the Spanish mackerel (Scomberomorus maculatus), in contrast to the cero mackerel which has scales extending onto the pectoral fin.
small and smooth scales - velvety?
quote:
The mackerel's scales are small and smooth, giving a velvety feel to the skin.
Somebody has drawn a easy to understand picture of them here:
mackerel scales drawings
Posted By: debbie

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/02/04 07:23 AM

I have a relative in the family that helped build a new Conference Office in the USA. He and a buddy went to the Restaurant across the street from the old Conference Office for lunch and when the waitress heard who they were and what they were doing, she asked them why it was that when the Conference men (when meeting together) came together to the Restaurant, they ordered vegetarian but when they came alone, they always ate meat?

He wondered too.

People DO see what we eat and watch what we say and do. Our influence is much more far-reaching than we realize.
Posted By: Ikan

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/02/04 11:00 AM

My point exactly debbie!! We are very much being watched. Food hypocrites are no less approved of man or God than any other type of double-dealer.
If you still eat meat, say so; if some things still tempt you, be real enough to admit it. BUT don't try to fool anyone.

I would hate to think that at some poor soul's Judgment they will turn to me and say, "But Lord: Ikan lied about his health reform! Why should I beieve anything else he was saying about You???"
Posted By: D R

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/02/04 04:04 PM

With this thread of postings am I understanding that it is a sin to eat meat, and that the "community" is "watching" that if I eat meat I may be a stumbling block? Yikes, when do I learn the secret handshake for this club?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Does Mackerel Have Both Fins & Scales? - 06/02/04 04:51 PM

This topic is getting beyond whether or not mackerel has scales or doesn't have scales, therefore, I am going to create a new topic on this side topic that we are getting into deeper and deeper here.
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