Use of Ellen White's Writings

"Many from among our own people are writing to me, asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects that they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them. It is true that there is a reason why some of their matters should be presented; but I would not venture to give my approval in using the testimonies in this way, or to sanction the placing of matter which is good in itself in the way which they propose. The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless, I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose. In taking account of such an enterprise, there are many things that must come into consideration, for in using the testimonies to bolster up some subject which may impress the mind of the author, the extracts may give a different impression than that which they would were
they read in their original connection."--Lt 49, 1894 PM 359,360

I think this speaks for itself, and therefore wonder why - even under the banner of the "Bible Study" forum, we disregard the above quote.

Zyph,
An excellent question to research. Both Bible & SOP are God’s testimony to us and given for us, but too often human nature wants to “help the Lord speak.” So what inspiration “ment to say” is stressed by followers of this ism or that one & what it actually said is ignored. The context of Bible & SOP gets ignored or twisted.

The reference phrase was put into the EGW search engine & 3 hits came up.

1SM chapter 4
{PH116 25a.}
{PC 9.4 - 10.7}

I haven't looked at your references, Ed. I don't understand most of the shorthand references to Ellen White's writings. I know DA and GC, and that's about it! lol

I think my point is this: "The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless, I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose." What manner did they propose? "...using my writings to give force to certain subjects that they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them".

We do it all the time!

Because someone does something does not, necessarily, make it right or wrong.
If after checking out the context of a quote and/or a scripture, it is seen that it has not been twisted out of context, it is acceptable.

Using it alone to make a point is totaly unacceptable, even sr. White has said not to quote her if we are using her for the final authority.

I firmly believe she was a 'prophet' for our times, but I have to bow to her request to search the scriptures to find out if things are so or no.

This I found in chpt 3 of the 1 Testimonies:
Inspired Messages Wrongly Applied

One man, B by name, came all the way from Michigan with a special message for Sister White. He said that Sister White had been appointed by God to occupy the position occupied by Moses, and that he, B, was to occupy the position of Joshua. Thus the work was to be carried forward. Sister White's work was to be united with his work, and we were to proclaim the truth with power. {1SM 43.3}
This man took the liberty, as many others have done, to mingle a great deal of Scripture with his message,
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quoting passages which he applied to Seventh-day Adventists. During my connection with the work many such men have arisen. They have selected and arranged scriptures which they made applicable to the people of God. Mr. B read with a loud, strong voice the passages he had selected, declaring them to be applicable to us as a people. He said that I must see that he was right; for was it not the Bible he was reading. {1SM 43.4}
"Yes," I said, "you have selected and put these scriptures together, but like many who have arisen as you have, you are wresting the Scriptures, interpreting them to mean thus and so, when I know they do not apply as you have applied them. {1SM 44.1}
"You, or any other deluded person, could arrange and have arranged certain scriptures of great force, and applied them according to your own ideas. Any man could misinterpret and misapply God's Word, denouncing people and things, and then take the position that those who refused to receive his message had rejected the message of God, and decided their destiny for eternity.". . . {1SM 44.2}
From the various letters which have come to me, I see that when such men as B, claiming to be sent by God, go to those who are more or less isolated from our people, these souls are ready to grasp anything that purports to be of heavenly origin. Letters come to me entreating an answer; I know that many men take the testimonies the Lord has given, and apply them as they suppose they should be applied, picking out a sentence here and there, taking it from its proper connection, and applying it according to their idea. Thus poor souls become bewildered, when could they read in order all that has been given, they would see the true application, and would not become confused. Much that purports to be a message from Sister White, serves the purpose of misrepresenting Sister White, making her testify in favor of things that are not in accordance with her mind or judgment. This makes her work very trying. Reports fly from one to another regarding what Sister White has said. Each time the report is repeated, it grows larger. If Sister White has anything to
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say, leave her to say it. No one is called upon to be a mouthpiece for Sister White. . . . Please let Sister White bear her own message. It will come with a better grace from her than from the one who reports her.--Manuscript 21, 1901. {1SM 44.3}
I need to do a lot more study on this myself.
But, by and large, I do not see a categoric refusal to allow the writings of hers to be used, just that we are not twist them all out of context and make them say that which they do not.
My $0.02

But, Gerry, she said, "The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless, I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose." She would not give her permission, even if the persons could use her testimonies wisely.

Perhaps we are putting the horse behind the cart.
The first admonition I saw of hers against using her for a reference, she said not to do it 'unless' they had studied scripture.
If memory serves me, they werew quoting her exclusively, not even bothering to give a scriptural basis for it.
From the beginning of my work, I have been pursued by hatred, reproach, and falsehood. Base imputations and slanderous reports have been greedily gathered up and widely circulated by the rebellious, the formalist, and the fanatic. There are ministers of the so-called orthodox churches traveling from place to place to war against Seventh-day Adventists, and they make Mrs. White their textbook. The scoffers of the last days are led on by these ministers professing to be God's watchmen. {1SM 69.3}
Perhaps this is why she said what she did, her writings were being twisted all around and misused against her and the Adventist church.
Human nature is human nature still. Let not those who seek to hedge up my way and destroy the influence of my words, deceive themselves with the belief that they are doing God service. They are serving another master, and they will be rewarded according to their work. {1SM 72.1}
Rebellion will exist as long as Satan exists. Those who are actuated by his spirit will not discern the spirit of God or listen to its voice until the mandate shall go forth, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still" (Rev. 22:11). I expect to encounter the malice of those who despise the light which God has been pleased to give me. {1SM 72.2}
In her day, and in ours, there were those that sought to misrepresent her, to cause reproach to fall on her and her writings in an attempt to make them of no effect.
Rather than give them one more thing to use against her, she declined to give her permission to use the 'Testimonies' in the way asked.
To the best of my understanding, the Testimonies are intended for the church, not those outside of her.
It appears as though these people werewanting to use her Testimony to the church to make a point to those outside in order to win a point and drive it home, not the purpose of them.
As I said, I need to study into this a little more.
I remember reading that she stated that if people had gotten into the word as they should, the Testimonies would never have needed to be written in the first place.
Maybe Ed can help me here, I can't remember where I saw it.

Zyph here's the quotes & their context. The shorthand is the code the EGW search engine uses to locate the book, article, etc. The numbers before the dot are the page, after the dot = the paragraph on that page.

1SM chapter 4
{PH116 25a.}
{PC 9.4 - 10.7}
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#1. (Some early SDA’s were so arrogant as to presume to tell EGW how to speak for God, in person or in print.

1SM Chap. 4 - The Writing and Sending Out of the Testimonies to the Church
[THE MATERIAL COMPRISING THIS CHAPTER
APPEARED IN A LEAFLET IN 1913.]
-

A Review of the Work

Sanitarium, California
July 8, 1906

Dear Brother:

There are some who think they are able to measure the character and to estimate the importance of the work the Lord has given me to do. Their own mind and judgment is the standard by which they would weigh the testimonies. {1SM 49.1}
My Instructor said to me, Tell these men that God has not committed to them the work of measuring, classifying, and defining the character of the testimonies. Those who attempt this are sure to err in their conclusions. The Lord would have men adhere to their appointed work. If they will keep the way of the Lord, they will be able to discern clearly that the work which He has appointed me to do is not a work of human devising. {1SM 49.2}
Those who carefully read the testimonies as they have appeared from the early days, need not be perplexed as to
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their origin. The many books, written by the help of the Spirit of God, bear a living witness to the character of the testimonies. {1SM 49.3}
In the early days of our experience in the message, the Spirit of God often came upon a few of us as we were assembled, and I was taken away in vision. The Lord gave such light and evidence, such comfort and hope and joy, that His praises were upon our lips. {1SM 50.1}

Assisted by Literary Helpers

While my husband lived, he acted as a helper and counselor in the sending out of the messages that were given to me. We traveled extensively. Sometimes light would be given to me in the night season, sometimes in the daytime before large congregations. The instruction I received in vision was faithfully written out by me, as I had time and strength for the work. Afterward we examined the matter together, my husband correcting grammatical errors and eliminating needless repetition. Then it was carefully copied for the persons addressed, or for the printer. {1SM 50.2}
As the work grew, others assisted me in the preparation of matter for publication. After my husband's death, faithful helpers joined me, who labored untiringly in the work of copying the testimonies and preparing articles for publication. {1SM 50.3}
But the reports that are circulated, that any of my helpers are permitted to add matter or change the meaning of the messages I write out, are not true. {1SM 50.4}
While we were in Australia the Lord instructed me that W. C. White should be relieved from the many burdens his brethren would lay upon him, that he might be more free to assist me in the work the Lord has laid upon me. The promise had been given, "I will put My Spirit upon him, and give him wisdom." {1SM 50.5}
Since my return to America I have several times received instruction that the Lord has given me W. C. White to be my helper, and that in this work the Lord will give him of His Spirit.
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{1SM 50.6}

Proper Time and Manner of Presentation

It requires much wisdom and sound judgment, quickened by the Spirit of God, to know the proper time and manner to present the instruction that has been given. When the minds of persons reproved are under a strong deception, they naturally resist the testimony; and having taken an attitude of resistance, it is difficult for them afterward to acknowledge that they have been wrong. {1SM 51.1}
In the early days of this cause, if some of the leading brethren were present when messages from the Lord were given, we would consult with them as to the best manner of bringing the instruction before the people. Sometimes it was decided that certain portions would better not be read before a congregation. Sometimes those whose course was reproved would request that the matters pointing out their wrongs and dangers should be read before others, that they, too, might be benefited. {1SM 51.2}
Often after testimonies of reproof were read, hearty confessions were made. Then we would unite in a season of prayer, and the Lord would manifest His pardoning grace to those who had confessed their sins. The acceptance of the testimonies brought the rich blessing of God into our assemblies. {1SM 51.3}
Faithfully I endeavor to write out that which is given me from time to time by the divine Counselor. Some portions of that which I write are sent out immediately to meet the present necessities of the work. Other portions are held until the development of circumstances makes it evident to me that the time has come for their use. Sometimes in ministers and physicians bearing responsibilities there has developed a disposition to discard the testimonies, and I have been instructed not to place testimonies in their hands; for having yielded to the spirit that tempted and overcame Adam and Eve, they have opened mind and heart to the control of the enemy. Being on a false track, and laboring under deceptive imaginings, they will read into the testimonies things that are not there, but which are in agreement with the false statements
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that they have listened to. By reading the testimonies in the light of their own kindling, they are deceived, and will deceive others. {1SM 51.4}
Sometimes, after very clear-cut, decided reproofs have been written out, they are held for a time until by personal correspondence I have endeavored to change the spirit of those to whom they are addressed. If these efforts are unsuccessful, the messages, with all their strength of rebuke or reproof, are sent to them, whether they will hear, or whether they will deny the truthfulness of the message. {1SM 52.1}
If those whose errors are pointed out make confession of their wrongdoing, the spell of the enemy may be broken. If they will repent and forsake their sins, God is faithful and just to forgive their sins, and to cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer, will remove the filthy garments from them, give them change of raiment, and set a fair miter upon their head. But so long as they refuse to turn from iniquity they cannot develop a character that will stand in the great day of judgment. {1SM 52.2}
Often concealed wrongs in the life of individuals are opened before me, and I am bidden to bear a message of reproof and warning. {1SM 52.3}
I have been told that many who give heed to the false science of the enemy would denounce my work as that of a false prophet, and would place upon the testimony such interpretations as tend to change the truth of God into a lie. Satan is on the alert; and some who in the past have been used by the Lord in doing His work, but who have permitted themselves to be deceived, will be stirred up to make an improper use of the messages given. Because they do not wish to listen to the words of reproof, because they will not hear counsel, and improve their course of action, and do their appointed work, they will misconstrue the messages to the church, and confuse many minds. {1SM 52.4}
Nevertheless, I am to bear the message that is given me to bear, so long as the Lord shall choose. He has not given me the work of settling all the misunderstandings that are cherished in hearts of unbelief. Just as long as a
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door is open to receive the tempter's suggestions, difficulties will multiply. The hearts of those who will not come to the light are open to unbelief. If my time and strength are consumed upon such matters, this serves Satan's purposes. The Lord has said to me: "Bear the testimonies. Your work is not to settle difficulties; your work is to reprove, and to present the righteousness of Christ." {1SM 52.5}

An Incident

At one time in the early days of the message, Father Butler and Elder Hart became confused in regard to the testimonies. In great distress they groaned and wept, but for some time they would not give the reasons for their perplexity. However, being pressed to give a reason for their faithless speech and manner, Elder Hart referred to a small pamphlet that had been published as the visions of Sister White, and said that to his certain knowledge, some visions were not included. Before a large audience, these brethren both talked strongly about their losing confidence in the work. {1SM 53.1}
My husband handed the little pamphlet to Elder Hart, and requested him to read what was printed on the title page. "A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Mrs. E. G. White," he read. {1SM 53.2}
For a moment there was silence, and then my husband explained that we had been very short of means, and were able to print at first only a small pamphlet, and he promised the brethren that when sufficient means was raised, the visions should be published more fully in book form. {1SM 53.3}
Elder Butler was deeply moved, and after the explanation had been made, he said, "Let us bow before God." Prayers, weeping, and confessions followed, such as we have seldom heard. {1SM 53.4}
Father Butler said: "Brother White, forgive me; I was afraid you were concealing from us some of the light we ought to have. Forgive me, Sister White." Then the power of God came into the meeting in a wonderful manner.--The Writing and Sending Out of the Testimonies to the Church, pp. 3-9.
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{1SM 53.5}

The Work and the Helpers

Sanitarium, California
October 23, 1907

Dear Brother {F. M.} Wilcox:

I received and read your recent letter. Regarding the sister who thinks that she has been chosen to fill the position that Sister White has occupied, I have this to say: She may be honest, but she is certainly deceived. {1SM 54.1}
About a year after the death of my husband, I was very feeble, and it was feared that I might live but a short time. At the Healdsburg camp meeting, I was taken into the tent where there was a large gathering of our people. I asked to be raised up from the lounged on which I was lying, and assisted to the speaker's platform, that I might say a few words of farewell to the people. As I tried to speak, the power of God came upon me, and thrilled me through and through. Many in the congregation observed that I was weak, and that my face and hands seemed bloodless; but as I began speaking they saw the color coming into my lips and face, and knew that a miracle was being wrought in my behalf. I stood before the people healed, and spoke with freedom. {1SM 54.2}
After this experience, light was given me that the Lord had raised me up to bear testimony for Him in many countries, and that He would give me grace and strength for the work. It was also shown me that my son, W. C. White, should be my helper and counselor, and that the Lord would place on him the spirit of wisdom and of a sound mind. I was shown that the Lord would guide him, and that he would not be led away, because he would recognize the leadings and guidance of the Holy Spirit. {1SM 54.3}
The assurance was given me: "You are not alone in the work the Lord has chosen you to do. You will be taught of God how to bring the truth in its simplicity before the people. The God of truth will sustain you, and convincing proof will be given that He is leading you. God will give you of His Holy Spirit, and His grace and wisdom and keeping power will be with you. . . .
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{1SM 54.4}
"The Lord will be your instructor. You will meet with deceptive influences; they will come in many forms, in pantheism and other forms of infidelity; but follow where I shall guide you, and you will be safe. I will put My Spirit upon your son, and will strengthen him to do his work. He has the grace of humility. The Lord has selected him to act an important part in His work. For this purpose was he born." {1SM 55.1}
This word was given me in 1882, and since that time I have been assured that the grace of wisdom was given to him. More recently, in a time of perplexity, the Lord said: "I have given you My servant, W. C. White, and I will give him judgment to be your helper. I will give him skill and understanding to manage wisely." {1SM 55.2}
The Lord has given me other faithful helpers in my work. Many of my discourses have been reported, and have been put before the people in printed form. Through nearly the whole of my long experience I have endeavored, day by day, to write out that which was revealed to me in visions of the night. Many messages of counsel and reproof and encouragement have been sent out to individuals, and much of the instruction that I have received for the church has been published in periodicals and books, and circulated in many lands.... {1SM 55.3}
The work is constantly moving forward. We are making earnest efforts to place my writings before the people. We hope that several new books will go to press shortly. If I am incapacitated for labor, my faithful workers are prepared to carry forward the work. {1SM 55.4}

My Writings Will Constantly Speak

Abundant light has been given to our people in these last days. Whether or not my life is spared, my writings will constantly speak, and their work will go forward as long as time shall last. My writings are kept on file in the office, and even though I should not live, these words that have been given to me by the Lord will still have life and will speak to the people. But my strength is yet spared, and I hope to continue to do much useful work. I may live until
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the coming of the Lord; but if I should not, I trust it may be said of me, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them" (Rev. 14:13).... {1SM 55.5}
I thank God for the assurance of His love, and that I have daily His leading and guidance. I am very busy with my writing. Early and late, I am writing out the matters that the Lord opens before me. The burden of my work is to prepare a people to stand in the day of the Lord. The promise of Christ is sure. The time is not long. We must work and watch and wait for the Lord Jesus. We are called upon to be steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord. All our hopes have their foundation in Christ. {1SM 56.1}
Are our people reviewing the past and the present and the future, as it is unfolding before the world? Are they heeding the messages of warning given them? Is it our greatest concern today that our lives shall be refined and purified, and that we shall reflect the similitude of the divine? This must be the experience of all who join that company who are washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. They must be arrayed in the righteousness of Christ. His name must be written in their foreheads. They must rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Christ has engraved the names of His people on the palms of His hands. He will never lose His interest in any dependent soul. {1SM 56.2}
Say to the church members that there is need of thorough consecration to God. Let all understand that they must make a covenant with God by sacrifice. We need the blessings of the gospel every day and every hour. Every proof of the Lord's power, His presence, and His love, is to be recognized with grateful thanks. Happiness is to be achieved by the right action of the soul toward God. I thank the Lord for this precious thought. Let Him be glorified by the sentiments expressed and by the actions performed. . . . Never have testimonies been more clearly brought before the people than those that have recently
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been traced by my pen. God bids me urge upon the attention of our people the importance of their study. Let this work begin now. Then, whether I am permitted to labor or am laid away to rest until Jesus comes, these messages are immortalized. {1SM 56.3}
To my brethren I now say: Speak words that will draw souls to Christ. Bring forth fruit in good works. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life" (John 3: 36). Every conceivable thing will be brought in to deceive, if possible, the very elect; but the Lord will certainly take care of His work.--The Writing and Sending Out of the Testimonies to the Church, pp. 10-16. {1SM 57.1}

The Use of the Testimonies

Time and Place to be Considered

Regarding the testimonies, nothing is ignored; nothing is cast aside; but time and place must be considered. Nothing must be done untimely. Some matters must be withheld because some persons would make an improper use of the light given. Every jot and tittle is essential and must appear at an opportune time. In the past, the testimonies were carefully prepared before they were sent out for publication. And all matter is still carefully studied after the first writing. {1SM 57.2}
Tell them to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God. Place His Word before them. There will be those who will misinterpret and misrepresent. Their eyes have been blinded, and they set forth the figures and interpretations that Satan has worked out for them, and an entirely wrong meaning will be placed upon the words that Sister White has spoken. Satan is just as verily claiming to be Christ's child as did Judas, who was on the accusing side. They have educated themselves in Satan's school of misstating. A description of them is given in the third chapter of Zechariah. Nothing in the world is so dear to God as His church. Satan has worked upon human minds, and will continue to betray sacred trust in a spurious way.
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{1SM 57.3}

The Publishing of Compilations

I can see plainly that should every one who thinks he is qualified to write books, follow his imagination and have his productions published, insisting that they be recommended by our publishing houses, there would be plenty of tares sown broadcast in our world. Many from among our own people are writing to me, asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects which they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them. {1SM 58.1}
It is true that there is a reason why some of these matters should be presented: but I would not venture to give my approval in using the testimonies in this way, or to sanction the placing of matter which is good in itself in the way which they propose. {1SM 58.2}
The persons who make these propositions, for ought I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose. In taking account of such an enterprise, there are many things that must come into consideration; for in using the testimonies to bolster up some subject which may impress the mind of the author, the extracts may give a different impression than that which they would were they read in their original connection.-- The Writing and Sending Out of the Testimonies to the Church, pp. 25, 26. {1SM 58.3}

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#2. (Seems there was a rush of SDA’s eager to be authors & attract a following to what ever their favorite “ism” happened to be.)

How Does Sister White Know
What to Speak?

March 18, 1889.
The question is asked, How does Sister White know in regard to the matters of which she speaks so decidedly, as if she had authority to say these things? I speak thus because they flash upon my mind when in perplexity like lightning out of a dark cloud in the fury of a storm. Some scenes presented before me years ago have not been retained in my memory, but when the instruction then given is needed, sometimes even when I am standing before the people the remembrance comes sharp and clear, like a flash of lightning, bringing to mind distinctly that particular instruction. At such times I cannot refrain from saying the things that flash into my mind, not because I have had a new vision, but because that which was presented to me perhaps years in the past has been recalled to my mind forcibly. MS--33--1911

25a {PH116 24a.1}

Time and Place to be Considered

"Regarding the testimonies, nothing is ignored; nothing is cast aside; but time and place must be considered. Nothing must be done untimely. Some matters must be withheld because some persons would make an improper use of the light given. Every jot and tittle is essential and must appear at an opportune time. In the past, the testimonies were carefully prepared before they were sent out for publication. And all matter is still carefully studied after the first writing. {PH116 25a.1}

Accusations

"Tell them to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God. Place His work before them. There will be those who will misinterpret and misrepresent. Their eyes have been blinded, and they set forth the figures and interpretations that Satan has worked out for them, and an entirely wrong meaning will be placed upon the words that Sister White has spoken. Satan is just as verily claiming to be Christ's child as did Judas, who was on the accusing side. They have educated themselves in Satan's school of misstating. A description of them is given in the third chapter of Zechariah. Nothing in the world is so dear to God as His church. Satan has worked upon human minds, and will continue to betray sacred trust in a spurious way. {PH116 25a.2}

The Publishing of Compilations

"I can see plainly that should every one who thinks he is qualified to write books, follow his imagination and have his productions published, insisting that they be recommended by our publishing houses, there would be plenty of tares sown broadcast in our world. Many from among our own people are writing to me, asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects which they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them. {PH116 25a.3}

"It is true that there is a reason why some of these matters should be presented: but I would not venture to give my approval in using the testimonies in this way, or to sanction the placing of matter which is good in itself in the way which they propose. {PH116 26a.1}

"The persons who make these propositions for ought I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose. In taking account of such an enterprise, there are many things that must come into consideration; for in using the testimonies to bolster up some subject which may impress the mind of the author, the extracts may give a different impression than that which they would were they read in their original connection." MS--23--1911. {PH116 26a.2}

"Many excused their disregard of the testimonies by saying, 'Sister White is influenced by her husband; the testimonies are moulded by his spirit and judgment.' Others were seeking to gain something from me which they could construe to justify their course, or to give them influence." {PH116 25.1}

"As the work advances," she said June 6, 1914, "our brethren are to see and understand that they are to advance and increase in liberality. Every man is to be judged according to his works. Tell the brethren that if they err at all, let it be on the side of liberality, and not on the side of restraint. Because, as they restrict, they are developing traits of character not favorable to religious growth. Our work should be more generous, broad, and favorable as it advances." {PH116 30.1}

************************************
# 3. From the Paulson collection ( Seems like everyone wanted to be an author & use EGW as a source of authenticity, plus make meat eating a test question.)

Regarding the Testimonies

Regarding the testimonies, nothing is ignored; nothing is cast aside; but time and place must be considered. Nothing must be done untimely. Some matters must be withheld because some persons would make an improper use of the light given. Every jot and tittle is essential and must appear at an opportune time. In the past, the testimonies were carefully prepared before they were sent out for publication. And all matter is still carefully studied after the first writing. {PC 9.4}

Accusations

Tell them to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God. Place His Word before them. There will be those who will misinterpret and misrepresent. Their eyes have been blinded, and they will set forth the figures and interpretations that Satan has worked out for them, and entirely wrong meaning will be placed upon the words that Sister White has spoken. Satan is just as verily claiming to be Christ's child as did Judas, who was on the accusing side. They have educated themselves in Satan's school of misstating. A description of them is given in the third chapter of Zechariah. Nothing in the world is so dear to God as His church. Satan has worked upon human minds, and will continue to betray sacred trust in a spurious way. {PC 10.1}

... I can see plainly that should every one who thinks he is qualified to write books, follow his imagination and have his productions published, insisting that they be recommended by our publishing houses, there would be plenty of tares sown broadcast in our world. Many from among our own people are writing to me, asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects which they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them. {PC 10.2}

It is true that there is a reason why some of these matters should be presented; but I would not venture to give my approval in using the testimonies in this way, or to sanction the placing of matter which is good in itself in the way which they propose. {PC 10.3}

The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose. In taking account of such an enterprise, there are many things that must come into consideration; for in using the testimonies to bolster up some subject which may impress the mind of the author, the extracts may give a different impression than that which they would were they read in their original connections.... {PC 10.4}

I am not prepared to advise that we make the matter of meat eating a test question with our people. There are some things on this subject that I can write out to be read before the churches, which it is essential for believers to understand; but when it comes to making this a test question, I dare not place it before the people in that positive way. There are those who would stumble over such a presentation, and there are others who would make of it a stone of stumbling. {PC 10.5}

Let us give this matter due consideration. I am prepared to stand for some things; but not yet are we as a people fully ready for this issue. There should be first a fair representation of the subject, and it should be considered in all its bearings. Read carefully the record of Genesis 18:6-8. {PC 10.6}

The Lord has given us much instruction on the subject of meat-eating; and from the light He has given we should not prepare meat and place it on our tables for our families. If meat is not placed before them the temptation to eat it is removed.
(signed)
Ellen G. White

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

Ed, nothing in your post changes the context of the quotation in any way. So we are still at the same point, and I haven't seen anything to justify the way Mrs White's writings are bandied around by all who want to prove a point.

I don't want to let this one go. Does anyone have an analysis of why this statement does or doesn't mean what it says? Or other statements which might qualify it? Because it sounds like the church is doing something wrong when Ellen White is quoted from the pulpit.

I am confused.
Are you asking now why she is quoted from the pulpit?
I may be mistaken, but I thought you were referring to her being quoted at great length in the Bible zstudy forum.
I don't understand what the one has to do with the other.
Please, clarify this for me.

As to why she is quoted in the SOP forum, that is the purpose of it.
to give those interested in it to study it out and compare to scripture.

The reason she is quoted from the pulpit would depend on the particular speaker, I use her writings from time to time myself, as do I other Christian writers.
They may have a way of articulating in such a way as to make it more readily understandable.

To my way of thinking, the purpose of this particular statement is referring to someone wanting to use her extensively in a book, they wanted her approval for doing it.
Since her works were probably not copyrighted at that time, they could have used them without her permission, and as she had no way of knowing up front what they had in mind, she could not in clear conscience give her endorsment to the project. Which it appears they were attempting to aquire from her.

She, as do we today, had to be very careful how what she wrote was used, and that it followed the purpose of the visions and admonitions.
There is nothing in her writings that says her writings are not to be used, just that she could not and would not lend her name to projects she was not involved in personally.

It would be like someone signing as a guarantee for another without knowing what it was for, you could wind up with egg on your face, at best, or in a ton of trouble you can not get out of.

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Gerry Buck ]

Reading the context, there are two points. The original context, to my understanding of what I read, was preaching. " Many from among our own people are writing to me, asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects which they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them."

She said EVEN IF the context was correct, she wouldn't give permission. "The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose." She didn't say she didn't give permission because she wasn't involved. She said she wouldn't give permission for them "... in the manner in which they propose", which was to use them to "to give force to certain subjects". We use her writings to give force to certain subjects all the time. Are there other statements which would qualify this one?

Of course, if we are discussing Mrs White's writings, we have to use them. But the "Bible Study" forum isn't full of the bible at times. And it's open to visitors, isn't it? If all our doctrine is contained in scripture, don't we give the impression that we rely on Ellen White for doctrine when that's what we quote in such a forum? And to use her writings in any open forum is the same as using them from the pulpit, isn't it?

Isaiah 8:
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

If there is no bringing forth of the words of the law and the testimony how can there be a comparing to tell whether or not things being set forth by others are according to the words of the law and testimony or not?

Amos 3:
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

In order to agree there must be dialog and interchange to decide if there are grounds for agreement. To create that possibility God reveals various things through prophets.

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

To reason together two people, or more, must bring things together that are within the grasp of each other to reason upon and consider together.

When I read these quotes I get the picture of the prophet refusing fanatics to build their own platforms using the SOP as their source of name dropping legitimacy. I do not get a doctrine that SOP should not be used from pulpit or forum. However I also see lots of folks taking SOP and trying to make it say what it’s statements in context do not say. They do the same with the Bible. If dishonest use of SOP & Bible causes the stoppage of honest use of SOP & Bible - then a reversal of this text has been allowed to happen because mind games have been capitulated to by folks who should have striven to keep the faith represented by active support.

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

SOP has a present place among God’s children, till Jesus returns.

1 Corinthians 1:
1 ¶ Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

When Bible & SOP are used as Bible & SOP themselves explain, and no "ism" adgendas are ruling, whatever group of SDA's are there will indeed become of the same mind and in the same judgment. Though they will not see identically in every tiny detail.

Once SDA's in North America & around the world were known as people of the Book. SOP was the behind the scenes facilitator of that. North American SDA-ism has too far left SOP & Bible behind in favor of the tape - the video - the "special speaker" (who may or may not be personally SDA or committed to present truth.)

Personal study is too rare among us anymore & we are reaping what we have sowed. I am going through the series in the discipleship pack @ www.FAST.st . I highly reccomend it. Here is what I posted elswhere about it.

I am currently going through the FAST.st Discipleship Pack and am in the survival kit section of the course. I have already perused the Basic training section and the Multiplication Pack, and the phamplets "For such a Time", "Leadership Manual", "From Church to Training Center".

The system is not a one idea or one point system. Memorization is of no value if it does not become use in your life. The Bible is not looked at as if it were a secular memorization project. The system is geared to achive these basic things in a person's life.

1. Motivate and empower / prepare them to come to Jesus & accept & receive Him as their Saviour & Lord and obey and follow Him. How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

2. Grow in Him & intrest others in how He has helped you. How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

3. Learn how to recognize & follow the Bible's past & present testing truths . (Become SDA & thrive). How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

4. How to intrest others and teach these things to them also as an individual, group leader, Church coordinator. How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

Every stage has different needs to prepare for and different demands upon a person & within a person as they move into or resist each stage of growth. This is a well thought out set of guidelines for a systematic organized training for personal and group and local Church discipleship .

The model for this is taken from the Actions of the Apostles and their converts that they trained to replicate their ministry and outreach and local nurture and the common rootedness in the Word and dependence upon God to work with them and personally ensure His mission to suceed in them & through them.

When I became an SDA no one trained me how to be an SDA, just taught me things to follow & left a lot of gaps. It has been a process of catch as catch can to build a lifestyle over the years.

Too much external franework is stressed in contemporary SDA-ism without equally building a system of heart work that builds & depends upon the engrafted Word within & the power of God to vitalize that engrafted Word within that gives life to the external framework of the belief system.

Still a basic care plan that built a total care plan without gaps and missing spots, and built in preperation for the future at each step, would have been better. This is that type of system.

I hope this answers your questions and persuades you to try this system out for yourself and if so, prompts you to critique here; after going through the whole system (the average time is 6 months .)

I'm sorry, but the quote seems specific, and I will answer just one thing you said, Ed: "When I read these quotes I get the picture of the prophet refusing fanatics to build their own platforms using the SOP as their source of name dropping legitimacy." Why are you ignoring or overlooking her own words that say, "The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless, I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose." Please tell me what the difference is when people use her writings to add force to their presentations from the pulpit - or elsewhere. If a comment is to qualify this one, it must relate to this situation, contradict in in another context, or SOMEthing. Texts describing the great value and the obvious necessity of the spirit of prophecy don't qualify this one which is referring to the way it is used. And Mrs White is talking about the Testimonies. Was this an all-purpose term for her writings, or did it specifically refer to those letters directed at specific individuals or situations? Perhaps there is an answer in that? Just because we do something as a common thing, doesn't mean it's correct, if there is something that says we shouldn't.

Zyph:
Where did you get the reference you are talking about? I do not recognize PM. Before I attempt to tackle the question I would like to get more of the context.
Thanks

I think it was from the Ellen G. White estate search engine, although I don't remember exactly. I think Ed's first long post contained references. PH116 25a.3 - that's a cut and paste job. Is that familiar?

Zyph:
I was going back through some of Eds quotes and your quote appeared. It looks as though it is from Selected Messages (SM). The context is when just anybody picks up and decides to write a book and quote all kinds of SOP to back up there perspective. I believe that Sister White was trying to give a general guideline. She did not want just anybody to try to quote her writings to back up what people said. She did not want her writings attached to anybody and everybody. Now somebody might be able to do it well but she did not want to give a blanket approval to just quote. I think, like in all of her presentations, that somebody who is balanced can do so and get the job done right, but how is anybody to know who that balanced person is. She would make the same statement about the Bible because the principle is the same. Just because someone puts a whole bunch of Scripture together does not mean that it represents Jesus well and in fact could misrepresent Him.

So the issue is should we use the Bible and SOP to fortify truth, yes. Should just anyone go out and do it, no. But the man or woman who is being led by the Spirit must use the Bible and the SOP but use it in a manner that the Spirit can bless.

Thank you, Greg. And, Gerry, you were right about the context (at least, I think it was you!) In my usual haste, I read without seeing what was plainly there. It was about publishing.

But I'm still not satisfied that we use Mrs White's writings exactly the way she herself would allow. If all our doctrine is in the bible, can I say that in public forums, surely we should be laying a foundation of bible truth prior to introducing people to the spirit of prophecy. I know so many people who will listen to scripture, but if you start talking about a prophet, they will immediately close their minds, based on the context of wierdness and other so-called prophets, such as Mary Baker Eddy. People need time to break down the walls. Spiritual discernment develops progressively doesn't it?

Please note - the context of my original post was about using SOP appropriately. I'm not talking about the validity of SOP, which I believe with all my heart, in case you think I'm trying to undermine it.

A lot of the problem may stem from the fact that too many will prepare a sermon, but, be to 'lazy' to search out the scripture themselves.
I guess I have been blessed as most of the pastors I have listened to don't very quote her to the extent you seem concerned with.
they use her writings to help clarify a point.
As do I. I also use other good christian writers to get a point across.

I am currently going through the Testimonies, because I never thought ofit until now.
I am heartened by the fact that she experienced many of the same uncertainties that I do.
She asked many of the same questions.
I understand that these books were written for SDA audiences, not the general public.
The Conflict of the Ages series, now, are different.
She encouraged them to be put into as many hands as we can get them into.
Particularly The Great Controversy.
I have read all 5 of the books in this series, they helped me to understand the stories of the bible in a way I never had before.
I understand your concern, I have had some of the same concerns myself, but after study and prayer, I trust to God to make it all come out all right.

Zyph:
I think your last post is a good summary of your question. Sr. White has stated over and over again that when speaking to the public the primary presentation should be to the Bible. The people have had no opportunity to be exposed to the SOP and they will need much Bible study to even understand the concept of prophecy none the less see EGW as a prophet. The Bible is to be the primary study and the SOP should be a support to that study.