Pillars/Landmarks

Posted By: asygo

Pillars/Landmarks - 05/03/06 10:35 PM

Quote:

The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary. {1888 518.2}



I see here a very short list of landmarks:
  1. cleansing of the sanctuary
  2. three angels' messages
  3. commandments of God
  4. faith of Jesus
  5. temple of God in heaven
  6. Sabbath
  7. nonimmortality of the wicked


Is there anything else, based on inspired sources, that can be added to this list?
Posted By: Tom

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 05/03/06 10:50 PM

The background on this is that there were those who were protesting against the message of Jones and Waggoner saying it was doing away with the old landmarks.

Ellen White had the insight to see that Jones and Waggoner were actually preaching the gospel, righteouness by faith, and not merely a viewpoint regarding the Law in Galatians. They were thinking that EGW had agreed with someone else, can't remember who, regarding the Law in Galatians, whose view was contrary to J. H. Waggoner's (E. J.'s father; the Waggoners' view was the same, that the Law in Galatians Paul was dealing with was the moral law) and now by agreeing the E. J. Waggoner she was contributing to doing away with an old landmark. They doubted her office as a prophet, rather than recognize their error. E. J. Waggoner and A. T. Jones eventually left, and the old guard won; their opposing views are still entrenched.

Anyway, EGW was asked if justification by faith was a part of the third angel's message, and she replied that "justification by faith is the third angel's message in verity."
Posted By: asygo

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 05/06/06 12:20 AM

I have never really studied the politics of 1888, since it doesn't interest me. I just want the truth, no matter who did or did not believe it. So I'm not very familiar with the various factions of the time.

Based on your reply, am I right in concluding that EGW did not believe that "the Law in Galatians" was a pillar or landmark?
Posted By: Tom

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 05/06/06 01:36 AM

Quote:

I have never really studied the politics of 1888, since it doesn't interest me. I just want the truth, no matter who did or did not believe it.



If God has given us truth, and a prophet has identified that, and told us where to find it, and we want to find it, shouldn't we look where we've been directed? This really doesn't have anything to do with politics.

Yes, you're right that EGW did not believe the law in Galatians was a pillar or old landmark. You can tell from her remark (last sentence) that she thought the suggestion was frivolous.

She understood that the Law in Galatians was part of a bigger issue, justification by faith. As to whether justification by faith was a landmark, she replied "justification by faith is the three angels message in verity."

She upheld Waggoner's teaching on righteousness by faith (and the law in Galatians as well; 1SM 234, 235). It is because Waggoner had the view of righteousness by faith which he held that he the views he had regarding the Law in Galatians. It's not that the Law in Galatians wasn't important, but it wasn't a world in and of itself, which is how those who were fighting against it were viewing it. They even rejected other truth they were convinced was right (Waggoner's view on the Covenants) because they were afraid if they gave up their view on the Covenants they would have to give up their view on the Law in Galatians, which they didn't want to do. (1888 Materials, 604; We still haven't accepted Waggoner's teaching on the Covenants, notwithstanding Ellen White's specific endorsement; cherished viewpoints are hard to give up!)
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/02/06 06:03 PM

Since this topic was referred to in another topic, I thought I would bring it back to the list of mre recent topics and posts.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/08/06 02:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary. {1888 518.2}



I see here a very short list of landmarks:
  1. cleansing of the sanctuary
  2. three angels' messages
  3. commandments of God
  4. faith of Jesus
  5. temple of God in heaven
  6. Sabbath
  7. nonimmortality of the wicked


Is there anything else, based on inspired sources, that can be added to this list?


I would also like to know if anything else can be added to this, based on inspired sources.

Also, what's the difference between the pillars/landmarks and the fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church?
Posted By: the1888message

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/08/06 04:36 PM

Daryl

As far as the "land marks", The Sabbath, the Sanctuary message, The State of the Dead, the Sabbath and the Three Angels Message, there are many things that they taught that are “inspired”. Such as, Christ and His Righteousness, the Godhead, the types and antitypes of the old temple services and the cross, the final destruction of the wicked, the thousand years and Satan left alone on this earth, the prophetic time lines and their understanding, the Sealing Message, who the Beast of Revelation are and their rules, the Plagues (do you know how hot it will get in the fourth plague?), Grace, Justification, Sanctification, the wearing of jewelry.
All these are scriptural and there are others as well, that I may have left out, all are taught in the old writings, I have read some of the “new” views by some SDA teachers on subjects from the book of Hebrews or Galatians and the Sanctuary Message and they are not the same as that which was taught before. This is due mainly by using a more modern “bible”. This leads to different views and different understandings from what the Holy Spirit lead the founders to understand, or they have in some cases taken a more worldly view like the stance on makeup and jewelry.

Does this help?

Peace and Grace
David
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/11/06 08:21 PM

Were all those other ones you listed amongst the pillars/landmarks of the SDA Church?

If so, I would like references to that effect.
Posted By: the1888message

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/12/06 03:21 AM

Quote:

Were all those other ones you listed amongst the pillars/landmarks of the SDA Church?

If so, I would like references to that effect.




Outside of the Sanctuary, Sabbath, State of the Dead, Three Angels Message, you can find the Sealing Message in the little book by Loughborough in 1916 called “Questions on the Sealing Message”, Christ and His Righteousness from Waggoner in his book by the same name, also from the 1888 message, types and antitypes from the book called “the Cross and its Shadow” by Haskell, the study on Galatians by A. T. Jones. And from reading Sister Whites old books the S.O.P. and Spiritual Gifts, and the old R&H articles. You can also read the “Present truth articles from the 1850’s by mainly Alder White and others also. In these old writings the Scripture is there to support the beliefs as well.

There really is not a particular page or article it is from many articles and old books.
It has taken a few years to read and study these writings and I and still finding new things.

If you are interested in the 4th plague the answer is in the book of Isaiah.
Did you read the fundamental principles of 1872?

Peace and Grace
David
Posted By: Will

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/12/06 09:07 AM

I can tell you that Stephen Haskell's book The Cross and its shadow, is absolutely wonderful!

As for the issue on jewlery, I see a couple of things, both are distinct. for example Lucifer was decoreated in gems, we will have a crown to wear, and according to Sister White if I recall correctly we will have a gem stone for each person who gave their life to Christ on account of our testimony.
Now I have a book called Mystical Medicine, and it talks about how jewlery use to be a form of gem therapy, which is very new age\occultic type of practice. I can get the exact informaiton and post it. Its a wonderful book published by Teach Services.
God Bless,
Will
Posted By: the1888message

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/14/06 03:36 AM

Quote:

I can tell you that Stephen Haskell's book The Cross and its shadow, is absolutely wonderful!

As for the issue on jewlery, I see a couple of things, both are distinct. for example Lucifer was decoreated in gems, we will have a crown to wear, and according to Sister White if I recall correctly we will have a gem stone for each person who gave their life to Christ on account of our testimony.
Now I have a book called Mystical Medicine, and it talks about how jewlery use to be a form of gem therapy, which is very new age\occultic type of practice. I can get the exact informaiton and post it. Its a wonderful book published by Teach Services.
God Bless,

Question;
before the children of Israel could enter into the "promised land" what did they have to remove?

Peace and Grace
David
Will

Posted By: Redfog

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/14/06 05:06 AM

One problem I see on the jewelry/adornment issue is that we cannot always agree on what is jewelry and adornment. Is a tie jewelry or adornment? Is a wedding band jewelry or adornment? How about a watch? How about a Rolex watch? A Cadillac? Nike shoes? Many times it becomes a problem of semantics over real substance.

Redfog
Posted By: the1888message

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/14/06 05:50 AM

Quote:

One problem I see on the jewelry/adornment issue is that we cannot always agree on what is jewelry and adornment. Is a tie jewelry or adornment? Is a wedding band jewelry or adornment? How about a watch? How about a Rolex watch? A Cadillac? Nike shoes? Many times it becomes a problem of semantics over real substance.

Redfog




Did the children of Israel wear Nike shoes?
It is never “semantics” it is either we say that what we are wearing is pointing the world to us and does it make me feel good and do I get the attention. Also am I keeping up with the world’s styles? Do I spend $100 on a pair of shoes when I can get a pair for $20?
Years ago I would buy shirts that cost no less then $80 each and ties not less than $150, I had my $500 jackets. Where was what I bought pointing people to God? It did not it only point them to me, I was glorying myself.
That extra money I could have help out people who needed it instead it was all about self. What is in the middle of sIn? “I” or self.

How does owning a “rolex” bring glory to the Almighty?

These things only tie us to the world and keeps us focused on self.

Is simple tie jewelry? Well I think that some could be if it brings attention to self.

Again, what did the children of Israel have to remove before they crossed over to the “promised land”
I will ask a further question, why did they have to remove it?

Peace and Grace
David
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/14/06 06:31 AM

David we must remove anything that stands between us and a saving relationship with the Creator. For some it might mean giving up a tie (I even heard that from the pulpit once) The children of Isreal were to give up their gold and silver, or something to that affect but you will have to point out the verse to me as I cannot find it. Thanks.

I consider a tie to be adornment but not jewelry. I think it is fair to say that not all adornment is wrong.

I look upon a wedding band like I do a watch, it serves a useful function, but like a watch, it should be as simple and inexpensive as possible, not drawing attention to ones self. (However a watch should be of good quality)

The same with shoes. If I wear $100 dollar shoes because they last 5 times as long as $20 shoes and they are not worn to draw attention then that would be a wise use of our money. And it would depend on what they were being used for as well.

And expensive clothes are not a waste of money to the poor person who is making them.

Somehow I'm afraid Daryl is going to tell us we are

Redfog
Posted By: asygo

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 07/25/06 03:20 AM

Bro David,

After listing 7 landmarks, EGW said, "I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary." {1888 518.2}

Yet, you add many more items to the list of landmarks. You said in another thread, "I believe in the old way marks and they have been changed."

Do you define "landmark" differently from "way mark" in your communications? If not, do you think that Sister White's declaration that "all this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary" may apply to those who would add to her list of seven items?

Or do you believe that EGW's memory failed her when she made her list of landmarks? If so, I would like to see a quote from the SOP where she labels as a landmark a point of doctrine not included in the seven.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Pillars/Landmarks - 05/21/07 04:30 PM

I had forgotten about the existence of this topic, therefore, I am glad it was referenced and linked to in another topic.

The list here is slightly different from the list that Pastor Kevin Paulson gave in connection with the same quote that Arnold posted here, however, adding two more or revising the other one doesn't bother me any. \:\)
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