Papal ambitions

Posted By: dedication

Papal ambitions - 12/24/16 03:23 AM

What is this the ambitions goal of the Papacy? What is their "endgame".

According to former Jesuit Malachi Martin writing some 25 years ago during John Paul II's pontificate:
Quote:

"From the very beginning of his pontificate, John Paul has been talking incessantly about the convergence of the nations. He had the endgame in view some ten years before other men ...(493)
another era long or short, in mankinds history, , when a grand design of God's wuld be inaugurated for the society of nations. It would be a geopolitical unity of all nations. It would come after all the efforts of Transnationalists and Internationalists, had come to utter shipwreck ...Following that shipwreck, the Grand Design of God would be executed. He [the pope] would be the servant of that Grand Design.... (637)
"He is waiting, rather, for an event that will fission human history, splitting the immediate past from the oncoming future. It will be an even on public view in the skies, ...the circumambient glory of the Woman whom the apostle describes as "clothed with the sun" and giving birth to a child who will rule the nations. ...for it will immediately nullify all the grand designs the nations are now forming and will introduce the Grand Design of man's Maker. ...
when the fissioning event occurs, to assume that ministry, derived directly from the Petrine authority entrusted solely to him (as pope) that authority, that is symbolized in the Keys of Peter, washed in the human blood of the God man Jesus Christ. (The pope) is and will be the sole possessor of the Keys of the Blood on that day." (639) The Keys of this Blood the struggle for World Dominion


That book is full of this agenda.
It is being guided by "mary"
who has given the papacy their agenda.

The chief anti-Christ posing as "mary" is working through his servant for the final crises over worship.

The world civil power that will enforce this is centered in America, which is already bowing to the authority of papacy.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 12/24/16 03:40 AM

The last post quoted from writings written 25 years ago.

But read this news report written recently:
How Pope Francis Became the Leader of the global left

I don't think Francis, who is playing the "left" field", is the last pope
Nor is leftist president Obama the last president.
However, they have laid the ground work.

There is an agenda -- that is being followed.
That agenda plays opposites against each other in order to bring about it's final goal.

It's all working to the same goal.
But when the worship crises hits, it will look like good is winning over bad.

In the final end-game the whole world "almost" will be worshipping the dragon, the beast, and the image to the beast, thinking they are worshipping God.

Things are shaping up just as prophecy foretold.

See this video for more evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh1JCzPQG6A




Posted By: Alchemy

Re: Papal ambitions - 12/27/16 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication
The last post quoted from writings written 25 years ago.

But read this news report written recently:
How Pope Francis Became the Leader of the global left

I don't think Francis, who is playing the "left" field", is the last pope
Nor is leftist president Obama the last president.
However, they have laid the ground work.

There is an agenda -- that is being followed.
That agenda plays opposites against each other in order to bring about it's final goal.

It's all working to the same goal.
But when the worship crises hits, it will look like good is winning over bad.

In the final end-game the whole world "almost" will be worshipping the dragon, the beast, and the image to the beast, thinking they are worshipping God.

Things are shaping up just as prophecy foretold.

See this video for more evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh1JCzPQG6A






Excellent post dedication.

it is very important to God's Remnant people to stay out of the polarizing had games played throughout our society and the world. That is why we need to be very careful to keep a very safe distance from politics.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 01/29/17 06:26 AM


The evidence is leaves no doubt:
Pope Francis Calls For One World Religion!
Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 01/29/17 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication

The evidence is leaves no doubt:
Pope Francis Calls For One World Religion!

dedication did you watch the video? It doesn't appear so for no where the Pope calls for the new world order. He doesn't even go near there.

All he said, that we all, from different religions or believes, have common ground to talk. And I agree.....dialogue is very important right now with all the tension(mainly in Europe) having a major in-flux of immigrant(mostly Islamic) moving into Christian countries.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 01/30/17 12:36 AM

There is a difference between
One World Religion and
One World order

The first seeks to rule in a spiritual sense over diverse nations, the second seeks a political unity.

Prophecy does not predict a one world order in which all nations give up their sovereignty -- for nations will not cleave one to another according to Daniel 2. They will try but it won't succeed. There will be wars and rumors of wars until the end. All the plans for political and economic reconstruction will fail.

However, prophecy does predict a spiritual unity that will be enforced upon the world. All the world will worship the beast and his image, except for a few that will resist his mark. (Rev. 13 & 14)
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 01/30/17 01:51 AM

Dialogue -- how important is it really?

Now good communication is a good thing, when there is no hidden agenda.
However, dialogue can have a huge DOWN SIDE.
Dialogue is the means for propaganda and inflicting a paradigm thought shift upon the populations.
Dialogue can be HUGELY deceptive.
In fact it is a Jesuit promoted agenda to bring unity of religions by elevating "common ground" and ignoring, downplaying and even ridiculing the truths that broke honest Bible seekers away from the papal church.


Bible prophecy reveals that the end time will be a tumultuous period of deception and betrayal. A strong delusion (II
Thessalonians 2:11) will overtake the minds of men so that they will willingly worship the Dragon (Satan) and the Beast and his image (Revelation 13). They will look to the papacy (as they already are doing more and more) as the "father" and see all the dialogue as the "Elijah message" bringing the children back to the papal father. In the chaos of worldly situations people everywhere will wondrously proclaim,
"Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him" (Revelation 13:4)? Come let us unit with him for he will lead us back to peace. He is the link of peace between muslims, Christians and other religions that will bring peace upon the earth. Listen to him and follow him.

But will it? Prophecy shows the answer is NO!

The dialogue -- seeks common ground?
Very true -- why? We see them beginning to unite upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, and soon they shall influence the Civil Powers to enforce this so called "common" religion.
Do all religions lead to the same place? Do they all serve the same God?
That's what the "common ground" theory is trying to teach. But it is a huge deception.
All false religions have a resemblance with truth, but that does not make them true.


Religious liberty is one thing.
Allowing people the freedom to worship as their conscience directs -- that's religious liberty -- that is good. That is what made our country great.
But that is NOT what is happening in these so called dialogues that seek mergence -- that mergence will not led to liberty.
Do Muslims believe in religious liberty?
Do Catholics believe in that?

No -- they don't.
The Catholic definition of religious liberty is:
their church and those who unite with them, should have liberty to do whatever they want, they are above governments and civil laws. They are to lead the government, never the other way around.
But it does not include liberty to believe what they (the Catholic church) consider wrong.
Both Muslim and Catholic religious intolerance, when they have the power, is well documented.

Don't let the sweet talk of "we have common beliefs" deceive you.
The agenda of dialogue now is to get everyone focused on "common ground" and unite. It's sweet talk now -- to lure people into the trap. But when they have the power -- then the forces will seek to strip away uncommon TRUTH and spiritual dictatorship will reign.
Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 01/30/17 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication
There is a difference between
One World Religion and
One World order

Sorry I thought it was one World order.

Originally Posted By: dedication
However, prophecy does predict a spiritual unity that will be enforced upon the world. All the world will worship the beast and his image, except for a few that will resist his mark. (Rev. 13 & 14)

Isaiah, Hosea and other prophets does talk about a spiritual unity of the natural nation of Israel(the 10 north tribes dispersed via the Assyrian captivity) with all the nations, and also the nation of Judah will join the nation of Israel. So yes, in the Bible there is a unification of the nations after the fall of Babylon.

There is such Biblical concept that a unification of all under the name(nation) of Israel. So the Catholic Church got the correct concept and on top of it, they also were founded from the early Church (something the Adventist Church are not). The Adventist Church makes the very same claim -- that we are the last Church and everyone will come into our Church because we keep the Sabbath and the other 9 commandments of the law. Don't you think it's a little hypocritical?

My understanding from the Bible is that both Church are wrong in many ways to assume this. Neither are the end time Church who I beleive is the 144K, the overcomers... for you need to be able to hear Jesus voice and follow Him wherever He Leads. These Churches are bound with an establishment that has a deep rooted foundation that cannot just quickly pack up and follow Jesus. It was not time to build a house(Church) with a foundation when we hadn't arrived to the promise land yet. According to the TYPE set in the law, we were to live in a Sukka (tent) without foundation so we would be able to pack up quickly and follow Jesus to the next encampment (spiritual lesson) to receive His following teachings.

The Catholic Church, the Seventh-Day Adventist Church & all other religions and nations and all on earth will sooner or later will come to recognize who ever these individuals are coming from all different religions, faith, time, nations, ... that are part of Jesus' true Church at His 2nd coming. I believe that these overcomers, have one thing in common -- they went thru Jacob's troubles and wrestled with an important Angel that gave them the name "Israel" (God Rule).
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/03/17 06:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: dedication

The evidence is leaves no doubt:
Pope Francis Calls For One World Religion!

dedication did you watch the video? It doesn't appear so for no where the Pope calls for the new world order. He doesn't even go near there.

All he said, that we all, from different religions or believes, have common ground to talk. And I agree.....dialogue is very important right now with all the tension(mainly in Europe) having a major in-flux of immigrant(mostly Islamic) moving into Christian countries.


I watched the video and I believe it directly points to a New World Religion!

Jews and Islam both reject Christ as God! How can they be one with Protestant Christianity? They can't unless they repent of their present beliefs!

Nothing is being left undone to destroy true Protestant Christianity in the world. That is an extremely important part of the New World Order.
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/07/17 07:53 PM

Well, I found no hint of any "one world religion" or "one world order" in the video. I do think the Pope is calling for dialogue though.

I find it unfortunate, however, that dedication seems to think dialogue is bad.??? She seems to be extremely paranoid, and I'm not sure why.
Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/09/17 03:53 PM

I agree with Nadi ... "the Pope is calling for dialogue" but this call "for dialogue" is still an attempt to favor & support the large influx of immigrants in Europe and other Christian countries. What the Pope is obviously doing .... is ignoring the real problem that many of the leaders within the Catholic Church has pointed out. And I agree with their position.

This was posted in another discussion.... but does address this discussion too!
Originally Posted By: Elle
My comment : Many voices in the Catholic Church (Bishops, politicians, etc) and the author of this article -- brings the same point that Stephen Jones and many others politicians that are non-catholic has brought seeing the wise plot [with in-flux of immigrants] Mystery Babylon to overthrow Christian Nations.

The reason for the in-flux of muslim immigrants in Europe, US, Canada, and other Western countries [that Georges Soros and his other elites buddies has funded] is because they know that in just a few generations the majority of the population of these Christian countries will not be Christian anymore, but muslim and many of them are radical muslims (those are the ones that are a threat)... that they will vote for a government that rule with the sharia law ... and these people with extreme Islamic religion views (different from other muslims who are peaceful) want to be ruled with a Saudi Arabia type of government.

Pope Francis wasn't trying to bring the "One World Religion", but sadly, it appears that he was supporting Mystery Babylon's agenda as the voice of many leaders inside the Catholic Church object to the Pope message. Looks like the Catholic Church is waking up. Good for them!

Islam Strengthening in Europe with the Blessing of the Church
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9835/church-strengthening-islam

by Giulio Meotti
January 29, 2017 at 6:00 am

"Europe will pay dearly for having left its spiritual foundations; this is the last period that will not continue for decades when it may still have a chance to do something about it. Unless the Christians wake up, life may be Islamised and Christianity will not have the strength to imprint its character on the life of people, not to say society. "

"[T]hey are not refugees, this is an invasion, they come here with cries of 'Allahu Akbar', they want to take over.
" — Laszlo Kiss Rigo, head of the Catholic Hungarian southern community.".

Quote:
There are now many Catholic commentators who are questioning the Church's blindness about the danger Europe is facing.

"Islam has every chance massively to strengthen its presence in Europe with the blessing of the Church.... the Church is not only leading Europe to an impasse, it is also shooting itself in the foot." — Laurent Dandrieu, cultural editor of the French magazine Valeurs Actuelles.

"It is clear that Muslims have an ultimate goal: conquering the world...Islam, through the sharia, their law...allows violence against the infidels, such as Christians....And what is the most important achievement? Rome." — Cardinal Raymond Burke, interview, Il Giornale.

"[T]hey are not refugees, this is an invasion, they come here with cries of 'Allahu Akbar', they want to take over." — Laszlo Kiss Rigo, head of the Catholic Hungarian southern community.

François Fillon published a book entitled, Vanquishing Islamic Totalitarianism, and he rose in the polls by vowing to control Islam and immigration: "We've got to reduce immigration to its strict minimum," Fillon said. "Our country is not a sum of communities, it is an identity!"

Everyone in Italy and the rest of Europe will "soon be Muslim" because of our "stupidity", warned Monsignor Carlo Liberati, Archbishop Emeritus of Pompei. Liberati claimed that, thanks to the huge number of Muslim migrants alongside the increasing secularism of native Europeans, Islam will soon become the main religion of Europe. "All of this moral and religious decadence favours Islam", Archbishop Liberati explained.

Décadence is also the title of a new book by the French philosopher Michel Onfray, in which he suggests that the Judeo-Christian era may have come to an end. He compares the West and Islam: "We have nihilism, they have fervor; we are exhausted, they have a great health; we have the past for us; they have the future for them".

Archbishop Liberati belongs to a growing branch of Catholic leaders who refuse to see the future belonging to Islam in Europe. They speak in open opposition to Pope Francis, who does not seem too impressed by the collapse of Christianity due to falling birth rates, accompanied by religious apathy and its replacement by Islam.


Monsignor Carlo Liberati, Archbishop Emeritus of Pompei (left) belongs to a growing branch of Catholic leaders who refuse to see the future belonging to Islam in Europe, and who speak in open opposition to Pope Francis (right).
Pope Francis's official vision is personified by Bishop Nunzio Galantino, who was appointed by the Pontiff as the Secretary General of Italy's Bishops. Last December, Galantino gave an interview in which he dismissed any religious motivation behind jihadist attacks and claimed that, instead, "money" is what is behind them.

There are now many Catholic commentators who are questioning the Church's blindness about the danger Europe is facing. One is the cultural editor of the French magazine Valeurs Actuelles, Laurent Dandrieu, who writes:

"Islam has every chance massively to strengthen its presence in Europe with the blessing of the Church. The Church is watching the establishment of millions of Muslims in Europe... and Muslim worship in our continent as an inescapable manifestation of religious freedom. But the civilizational question is simply never asked .... By breaking away from the Europe's indigenous peoples and their legitimate concerns, the Church is not only leading Europe to an impasse, it is also shooting itself in the foot".

Dandrieu lists Pope Francis' gestures and speeches in favor of Islam and migrants:

"On October 1, 2014, the Pope received Eritrean survivors of a shipwreck off Lampedusa; on 8 February 2015, he made a surprise visit to a refugee camp in Ponte Mammolo, northeast of Rome; on April 18, he used the first official visit of the new Italian president, Sergio Mattarella, to demand 'a much larger commitment' for migrants; on 6 September 2015, at the conclusion of the Angelus in St Peter's Square, he called for 'every parish, religious community, monastery and sanctuary in Europe to host a family' of refugees; on March 24, 2016, he chose to celebrate the Holy Thursday in a structure housing 900 refugees, and to wash the feet to twelve asylum seekers; on May 28, he received children whose parents died in a boat that sank, filled with migrants; during the general audience of June 22, Francis went down to the crowd to bring back fifteen refugees".

But as Liberati's case demonstrates, resistance to Pope Francis' vision of Europe is growing inside the Catholic Church.

"It is clear that Muslims have an ultimate goal: conquering the world", Cardinal Raymond Burke said.

"Islam, through the sharia, their law, wants to rule the world and allows violence against the infidels, like Christians. But we find it hard to recognize this reality and to respond by defending the Christian faith (...) I have heard several times an Islamic idea: 'what we failed to do with the weapons in the past we are doing today with the birth rate and immigration'. The population is changing. If this keeps up, in countries such as Italy, the majority will be Muslim (...) Islam realizes itself in the conquest. And what is the most important achievement? Rome".

The first to denounce this dramatic trend was Italy's most important missionary, Father Piero Gheddo, who said that, due to falling fertility and Muslim fervor, "Islam would sooner rather than later conquer the majority in Europe". These concerns do not belong only to the Conservative wing of the Catholic Church.

Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, Archbishop of Vienna and a candidate tipped to be the next Pope, is very close to Pope Francis, and is a centrist. Last September, on the anniversary of the Siege of Vienna, when Turkey's Ottoman troops nearly conquered Europe, Schönborn delivered a dramatic appeal to save Europe's Christian roots. "Many Muslims want and say that 'Europe is finished'", Cardinal Schönborn said, before accusing Europe of "forgetting its Christian identity". He then denounced the possibility of "an Islamic conquest of Europe".

After a Tunisian, who arrived among a flood of migrants into Germany, murdered 12 people at a Christmas market in Berlin, the Catholic archbishop of the German capital, Heiner Koch, another "moderate" Catholic leader appointed by Pope Francis, also sounded a warning: "Perhaps we focused too much on the radiant image of humanity, on the good. Now in the last year, or perhaps also in recent years, we have seen: No, there is also evil".

The head of the Czech Roman Catholic Church, Miloslav Vlk, also warned about the threat of Islamization. "Muslims in Europe have many more children than Christian families; that is why demographers have been trying to come up with a time when Europe will become Muslim", Cardinal Vlk claimed. He also blamed Europe itself for the Islamic takeover:

"Europe will pay dearly for having left its spiritual foundations; this is the last period that will not continue for decades when it may still have a chance to do something about it. Unless the Christians wake up, life may be Islamised and Christianity will not have the strength to imprint its character on the life of people, not to say society".

Cardinal Dominik Duka, Archbishop of Prague and Primate of Bohemia, has also questioned Pope Francis' "welcoming culture".

Among the Eastern Catholic bishops there are many voices raising concerns about Europe's demographic and religious revolution. One belongs to the leader of the Catholics in Lebanon, who paid an extremely high price for the Islamization of their own country, including murder and exile, and now see the danger coming to Europe itself. "I have heard many times from Muslims that their goal is to conquer Europe with two weapons: faith and the birth rate", Cardinal Bechara Rai said.

Another voice belongs to the French-born Bishop Paul Desfarges, who heads the diocese of Constantine in Algeria: "It's no surprise that Islam has taken on such importance", Desfarges said. "It's an issue that concerns Europe". Sydney Cardinal George Pell then urged "a discussion of the consequences of the Islamic presence in the Western world". Pell was echoed by Laszlo Kiss Rigo, the head of the Catholic Hungarian southern community, who said that "they are not refugees, this is an invasion, they come here with cries of 'Allahu Akbar', they want to take over".

On the political level, there is another a tendency, that of strong Catholic leaders who challenge Pope Francis on the Islamic question and immigration. The most important is the French presidential candidate François Fillon, one of the first politicians who "doesn't hide the fact that he's Catholic". Fillon published a book entitled, Vanquishing Islamic Totalitarianism, and he rose in the polls by vowing to control Islam and immigration: "We've got to reduce immigration to its strict minimum," Fillon said. "Our country is not a sum of communities, it is an identity!"

These politicians, bishops and cardinals might convince Pope Francis not to abandon Europe, the cradle of Christianity and Western civilization, to a looming dark fate. Michel Onfray wrote at the end of his book: "Judeo-Christianity ruled for two millennia. An honorable period for a civilization. The boat now sinks: we can only sink with elegance". It is urgent now to prevent that.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/12/17 04:44 PM


For many years the papacy has laboured to replace or destroy the Ten Commandments.
Now, the Pope has gone into high gear in his attack on God's Law and Commandment keepers. In remarks made during a homily in the Casa Santa Marta, he said that keeping the Ten Commandments is "cowardliness"!!!


Check out this post from Pastor Hal Mayer at ktfnews.com

"In order to defend himself against his critics, Pope Francis accused some Christians of having too much concern for the Ten Commandments, saying they suffer from “cowardliness,” and warning that such people become “paralyzed” and unable to “go forward.”

Popes have never been that concerned about keeping the Ten Commandments. That is the domain of the true followers of Jesus. In fact, those who truly love Jesus and have the Holy Spirit residing in their hearts will keep the Ten Commandments in honor of the Lord, including the Sabbath Commandment.

“‘Obeying all the commandments, all of them…’” said the pope, negatively characterizing the thinking of such Christians, “paralyzes you too. It makes you forget so many graces received, it takes away memory, it takes away hope, because it doesn’t allow you to go forward.” Such people become “confined souls” who suffer from the sin of “cowardice,” the pope added.

In other words, keeping the Ten Commandments prevents progress. And if you want to have hope, you cannot keep the Ten Commandments. This twisted logic is common in Roman Catholic teaching."

http://ktfnews.com/pope-francis-condemns-much-keeping-ten-commandments/


The Man of Sin has finally shed all pretence of godliness and publicly condemned the keeping of the Law of God!

Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/12/17 08:01 PM

Well, having watched a video of the Pope's delivery, I did not come away with that understanding. What I heard the Pope say was that (paraphrased) those Christians who focus on simply keeping the commandments (ie: works) are missing out on so many more aspects of God.

Even though I am not a fan of technology, it can be used to advantage in certain situations. In very little time it is possible to research any number of topics, and find viewpoints on all sides of the question. That being said, in my opinion "Pastor" Hal Mayer is hardly a legitimate source of anything, as even the briefest searching revealed multiple questions regarding him.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/13/17 12:46 AM

Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.

The Pope was defending himself from critics of his favourable views on allowing remarried divorcees to partake in the Eucharist. In an attempt to strengthen his views and encourage participation in the blasphemous practice of the Eucharist, Francis characterized those who obey the Ten Commandments as: being paralyzed, forgetful of grace, hopeless, confined souls and cowards!

This man of sin even went so far as to suggest that keeping the Commandments of God leads to sin! "Such people become confined souls who suffer from the sin of cowardice."

This stands in stark contrast to the words of King David:
"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul". Psalm 19:7

That is quite a series of blasphemous declarations just to defend the right of remarried divorcees to partake in the Eucharist!


Nadi, considering the works based theology of the Catholic Church, it seems rather slippery to suggest that the Pope was simply denouncing salvation by works. Anyone who has studied both the recent and distant history of the Catholic Church knows that the Pope chooses his words like an attorney, deliberately building his case, line by line, setting precedents for future actions...


Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/13/17 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
Well, having watched a video of the Pope's delivery, I did not come away with that understanding. What I heard the Pope say was that (paraphrased) those Christians who focus on simply keeping the commandments (ie: works) are missing out on so many more aspects of God.

Even though I am not a fan of technology, it can be used to advantage in certain situations. In very little time it is possible to research any number of topics, and find viewpoints on all sides of the question. That being said, in my opinion "Pastor" Hal Mayer is hardly a legitimate source of anything, as even the briefest searching revealed multiple questions regarding him.



As for the legitimacy of Hal Mayer, I must confess that I had never heard of him before yesterday. I was merely searching for a complete text of the Pope's homily, not a commentary on it. I will say that years of experience on the internet have taught me to take online character assassination with a large grain of salt. It is extremely easy to destroy a reputation. The labor of decades can be belittled with a few malevolent keystrokes.

For instance, by searching the name Ellen White one will find numerous posts decrying her as a false prophet, a brain injured delusional, etc. There are even entire sites such as The White Lie, dedicated to the destruction of her teachings. And, of course, there is no shortage of troll run "outreaches" to the poor deluded Seventh Day Adventist people.

Some of these trolls even manage to infiltrate SDA forums.

Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." No one understands these words so well as a Seventh Day Adventist!

So, you may be correct in your estimation of Pastor Hal Mayor, or you may have been completely mislead. I really don't know. Generally, it is best to judge someone by their words and actions than by the jibes of unseen critics, who may have their own dark agendas.


Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/13/17 03:26 AM

Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.


Please post your sources.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/13/17 07:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Nadi


I find it unfortunate, however, that dedication seems to think dialogue is bad.??? She seems to be extremely paranoid, and I'm not sure why.



Dialogue can be good, and it can be bad.

When the dialogue is psychologically geared to reshape your mind to fit into the very scenes which prophecy has warned us against, then we should flee that dialogue.

Eve's fatal mistake was dialogue, and when she engaged in dialogue she ended up plunging the whole human race into chaos.
Eve should have RUN in haste the minute she heard that serpent inviting her to dialogue with him.
His whole dialogue was geared to raising doubts in her mind against the truths that God had spoken, and then fill her mind with lies.

That's what the dragon's agenda is -- as per Rev. 13
To wrest people away from God's truths, and program them to fit into his counterfeit kingdom.
Dialogue with those who simply come to destroy our beliefs, is doing exactly what Eve did, and that most certainly is bad.

Where as dialogue with the papacy led the Luthern church, or the evangelicals? The Catholic church hasn't changed. But the protestants most certainly have -- people lost their lives in order to be free of the tyranny of the papal church in years past, and now they give up their beliefs and join up with Rome!!!
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/13/17 07:58 AM

Methinks ye partake of the kool-aid overmuch.
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/13/17 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.


Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
As for the legitimacy of Hal Mayer, I must confess that I had never heard of him before yesterday. I was merely searching for a complete text of the Pope's homily, not a commentary on it.


So of the "five or six" websites and two videos you researched you posted a link to someone you had never heard of before, which was not actually a "complete text of the Pope's homily" but a commentary on it.

This is hardly legitimate scholarship. It appears to me that both you and dedication have twisted the words of the Pope to fit your bias. This is not to defend the Pope; I have no interest in doing that. All I look for is academic honesty.

Bottom line: In my opinion, the Pope did not say what you claim he said.
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 03:22 AM

So I took a transcript of the Pope's homily and handed it out to my high school class of Humanities students. I gave them only the text of the homily, without identifying who said it where. After discussing their feedback regarding what it was talking about I asked them if they thought the author was saying NOT to keep the commandments. NOT A SINGLE STUDENT HAD THAT IDEA. What feedback I did get was that they thought the author was saying that if one focuses only on keeping the commandments this can negatively affect one's Christian growth. Commandment keeping is important, but there are so many more aspects of the Christian life such as remembrance.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.


Please post your sources.



I posted the source I quoted. If you want other sources google them.
Oh, but you did already find another source, since you handed a copy of the Pope's homily to your class. Since, it seems that you have already verified that the homily is posted on other sites, your request seems rather disingenuous.

Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.


Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
As for the legitimacy of Hal Mayer, I must confess that I had never heard of him before yesterday. I was merely searching for a complete text of the Pope's homily, not a commentary on it.


So of the "five or six" websites and two videos you researched you posted a link to someone you had never heard of before, which was not actually a "complete text of the Pope's homily" but a commentary on it.

This is hardly legitimate scholarship. It appears to me that both you and dedication have twisted the words of the Pope to fit your bias. This is not to defend the Pope; I have no interest in doing that. All I look for is academic honesty.

Bottom line: In my opinion, the Pope did not say what you claim he said.



"By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive". Matthew 13:14
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 09:40 PM

grin
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
So I took a transcript of the Pope's homily and handed it out to my high school class of Humanities students. I gave them only the text of the homily, without identifying who said it where. After discussing their feedback regarding what it was talking about I asked them if they thought the author was saying NOT to keep the commandments. NOT A SINGLE STUDENT HAD THAT IDEA. What feedback I did get was that they thought the author was saying that if one focuses only on keeping the commandments this can negatively affect one's Christian growth. Commandment keeping is important, but there are so many more aspects of the Christian life such as remembrance.


This is not at all surprising. The papacy is adept at subterfuge, with century upon century dedicated to perfecting its craft. On the surface, the Pope's words appear harmless, even kindly; however, past action can be an excellent predictor of future paths.

If your students had more complete knowledge of the Catholic history of Machiavellian political manipulation, treachery, torture, murder, massive persecution of divergent beliefs, defiance of God, pollution of what is Holy, etc. Perhaps they would have come to a different conclusion.

It is all to easy to be taken in by a "friendly" conman. It is a different matter when you have listened to the the testimony of his numerous victims, and you are familiar with his modus operandi.

If you would like some sources for my statements, try The Great Controversy, or if you would like a more graphic, non SDA, source look at Foxe's Book Of Martyrs: I would advise you to read it on an empty stomach.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
Methinks ye partake of the kool-aid overmuch.


So, now you resort to ad hominem attacks?
That is truly sad, and usually an indicator of a lack of valid argument.
Dedication is an incredibly knowledgable and wise lady.
Nadi, you could learn a lot, if you were willing.

Your casual conflation of the Jonestown tragedy and Dedication's accurate summation of the Seventh Day Adventist view regarding papal intent, indicates both a callous disregard for the suffering of others and a belief that Seventh Day Adventists are deluded cultists.

This attitude makes me wonder about your motivation for being on this site?
It has become painfully obvious that in recent years the North American educational system has been overrun by far left teachers and professors. Are you one of these, come to troll and mock our faith?

Nadi is in intriguing handle. Does it refer to the Indian term for the mystical yogic energy pathways between (nadi)chakras, or the Vedic astrological practise of reading Sanskrit etched palm leaves?
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
grin


"For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them." Matthew 13:17
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
So I took a transcript of the Pope's homily and handed it out to my high school class of Humanities students. I gave them only the text of the homily, without identifying who said it where. After discussing their feedback regarding what it was talking about I asked them if they thought the author was saying NOT to keep the commandments. NOT A SINGLE STUDENT HAD THAT IDEA. What feedback I did get was that they thought the author was saying that if one focuses only on keeping the commandments this can negatively affect one's Christian growth. Commandment keeping is important, but there are so many more aspects of the Christian life such as remembrance.


By the way Nadi, assuming of course that you are not part of the far left agenda promoting plague that infests the teaching profession, why don't you have your humanities students read Foxe's Book of Martyrs then reevaluate the Pope's wise and loving homily?
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/14/17 11:29 PM

ProdigalOne, if I have offended you in any way I am truly sorry. This was not my intent. I am, however, disappointed by the tone of the responses. I do not believe this kind of response will lead to meaningful dialogue.

My point of view differs from yours. This forum allows differing views to be expressed without character attacks.
Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 01:59 AM

Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.


Please post your sources.



I posted the source I quoted. If you want other sources google them.
Oh, but you did already find another source, since you handed a copy of the Pope's homily to your class. Since, it seems that you have already verified that the homily is posted on other sites, your request seems rather disingenuous.


Nadi, wheren't you asking sources for the text I supersized?

ProdigalOne, maybe you have a hard time following a discussion or there was some level of mis-understanding. I had the impression you were saying that 4 to 5 non-SDA sites had dedication's point of view. So I was looking forward to seeing these sources sites. But maybe I mis-understood also.

Nadi, be easy on our dear brother ProdigalOne. smile
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 07:20 AM

Let's stay with the subject.

I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world.
Its a "one world religion" not in dissolving the diverse religions, so much as changing them on the inside to the point where they no longer clash with each other and all harmonize in looking to the papacy as the "great shepherd" over all.


Check out the plan as outlined by Jesuit Karl Rahner and his partner Heinrich Fries.

They give eight steps.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of Churches
STEP ONE:
"The fundamental truths of Christianity, as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles' Creed and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the ONE CHURCH TO BE."


They elaborate by saying "The community assumes primacy over the individual." p.13
"The Church becomes the object of faith as ecclesia una, sanct, catholica, et apostolica (the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church) The 'I believe in the Church corresponds to the 'I believe in the Holy Spirit.' p21

The church is depicted as a "creature" of the Holy Spirit.

The unity they project can only be achieved if it is a community of faith and not one that worries about doctrines or believe systems or personal agendas. The theme throughout the plan is on the community of faith. In this the church takes precedence over the individual — theology can only be done in and by the community, not by the individuals.

Thesis I rests on the Creeds which express, in Fries words, "the fundamental truths of Christian faith. Furthermore, the Creed draws attention to the fact that faith is not a private matter. . .the public community of faith itself . . .has its support and basis of existence in the Creed." p. 16

Indeed -- the subject of the ten commandments came up in one of the previous posts. The Catholic church does believe in the ten commandments, BUT, since the church claims to be the "creature" of the Holy Spirit, they think they can adjust the ten commandments, having supposedly received that power through the Holy Spirit. Thus the change from Saturday to Sunday as the day "to remember" they claim is the sign of this authority.
And pope John Paul II in his "Dies Domini" (Lord's Day) apostolic letter of May 31, 1998, placed Sunday keeping under the imperative of the ten commandments!
And what is more -- he can quote a lot of nice sounding reasons for Sunday keeping from the traditions of the "church fathers". It's all 'good for the community of faith" for family values, etc.

Note: The Biblical apostles showed that religion does not consist in rites and ceremonies, creeds and theories.
It is not based on tradition and philosophies of men.

The one church to be...
The whole world (almost) will worship at the wrong shrine. Open your eyes and you will see this is being worked towards.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 09:23 AM

Originally Posted By: dedication

The Vatican's goal -- to be the head of a one world ecumenically united religion.
Check out the eight steps of the plan as outlined by Jesuit Karl Rahner and his partner Heinrich Fries.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of Churches
STEP ONE:
"The fundamental truths of Christianity, as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles' Creed and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the ONE CHURCH TO BE."


Step one was to take religion out of the hands of the individual and place it in the church (see last post)

Let's remember the promise: "Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them." It is not the great cathedrals or prestigious religious establishments, it is the people who love God and keep His commandments.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of churches
STEP TWO:
Beyond that a realistic principle of faith should apply: Nothing may be rejected decisively and confessionally in one partner church with is binding dogma in another partner church. Furthermore, beyond Thesis 1 no explicit and positive confession in one partner church is imposed as dogma obligatory for another partner church. This is left to a broader consensus in the future. This applies, especially to authentic but undefined doctrinal decrees of the Roman church, particularly with regard to ethical questions. According to this principle only that would be done which is already practice in every church today.


The larger portion of this thesis concerns itself with the overwhelming explosion of knowledge, asserting that no one person could possibly understand even a corner of it. On top of that people don't understand each other because they come with different suppositions upon which they build. So basically in the end, we all need someone to take care of that for us.

Rayner writes: "As an individual one becomes ever more impotent; one has to depend more and more on the knowledge of others, which one can no longer assimilate or check oneself" p. 28 with the exception of "the few in the Roman Congregatio pro Doctrina et Fidei (used to be called the Inquisition) who must watch over and judge the orthodoxy ( p. 29) who have a better comprehension of things theological.

The Spirit of Prophecy through EGW predicted this very thing. Rahner's argument that the information explosion has created a qualitative and quantitative upheaval so great that one can no longer depend upon his own study to form his conclusions.

Note: This all adds up to the concept that no church structure is vocal about rejecting decisively as wrong any dogma or doctrine presents in another church
(except of course the three angels message because it goes directly against their plan calling people to come out when the religious voices are urging people to join and enjoin.)

Notice as well --
the plan is to get the various churches to unite and agree on things they don't really agree on. But no worries, it is to be left for a "broader consensus in the future". In other words -- agree on points you don't agree on, and on a later date it will be worked out.

So step two is basically saying -- get people to stop worrying so much about different doctrines, they aren't really smart enough to figure them out, or understand them anyway, so just get everyone focused on "common" ground, tolerating all, and at some future date doctrines will be dealt with.

Get them to walk into the trap with all the trimmings of love and tolerance and a nice experience based on emotions, and once they're in....

Note: The thought stressed is that the individual's brain becomes impotent and therefore must put his trust in the church . . .
"for the church itself is the guarantor, through its formal teaching authority, of the truth of the individual doctrines it presents.? P. 32
Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication
Let's stay with the subject.

... meaning instead of attacking individual's character on the forum like ProdigalOne just did with Nadi or others whenever they oppose SDA Church interpretations --- you are attacking a bigger group of believers -- the Catholic Church.

Instead of wasting our time attacking Christians (either individually or corporately) ... I would prefer to investigate scriptures and learn more about what does the Lord says about this subject.

Originally Posted By: dedication
I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world.

Well as I said in my 2nd post in this discussion... the Adventist Church is pursuing the same thing because they also believe & teach they are [or will become] the spiritual leader of the world?????

Isn't this pure hypocrisy?

Not only the Catholics, the Adventists, or who other Christian based denomination who thinks they are the "TRUE" Church but actually also all the differents faiths in the Jews, Islamics, and other main religions. Also all those who believes they are one of the "ascended" ones and all those Royal Families with their "right to rule" given by God and the luciferians.... Everyone are saying the same things is in their own ways and pursuing to become "the spiritual leaders of the world". There's nothing new here. This has been going on since Adam. That's a typical childish behavior who doesn't know any better that it is the Lord who appoints who He wishes (Rom 9). And I believe their will be a representations of all differents groups mentioned above.

Originally Posted By: dedication
Its a "one world religion" not in dissolving the diverse religions, so much as changing them on the inside to the point where they no longer clash with each other and all harmonize in looking to the papacy as the "great shepherd" over all.


Check out the plan as outlined by Jesuit Karl Rahner and his partner Heinrich Fries.

They give eight steps.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of Churches
STEP ONE:
"The fundamental truths of Christianity, as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles' Creed and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the ONE CHURCH TO BE."


They elaborate by saying "The community assumes primacy over the individual." p.13
"The Church becomes the object of faith as ecclesia una, sanct, catholica, et apostolica (the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church) The 'I believe in the Church corresponds to the 'I believe in the Holy Spirit.' p21

The church is depicted as a "creature" of the Holy Spirit.

The unity they project can only be achieved if it is a community of faith and not one that worries about doctrines or believe systems or personal agendas. The theme throughout the plan is on the community of faith. In this the church takes precedence over the individual — theology can only be done in and by the community, not by the individuals.

Thesis I rests on the Creeds which express, in Fries words, "the fundamental truths of Christian faith. Furthermore, the Creed draws attention to the fact that faith is not a private matter. . .the public community of faith itself . . .has its support and basis of existence in the Creed." p. 16

Indeed -- the subject of the ten commandments came up in one of the previous posts. The Catholic church does believe in the ten commandments, BUT, since the church claims to be the "creature" of the Holy Spirit, they think they can adjust the ten commandments, having supposedly received that power through the Holy Spirit. Thus the change from Saturday to Sunday as the day "to remember" they claim is the sign of this authority.
And pope John Paul II in his "Dies Domini" (Lord's Day) apostolic letter of May 31, 1998, placed Sunday keeping under the imperative of the ten commandments!
And what is more -- he can quote a lot of nice sounding reasons for Sunday keeping from the traditions of the "church fathers". It's all 'good for the community of faith" for family values, etc.

Note: The Biblical apostles showed that religion does not consist in rites and ceremonies, creeds and theories.
It is not based on tradition and philosophies of men.

The one church to be...
The whole world (almost) will worship at the wrong shrine. Open your eyes and you will see this is being worked towards.

You are twisting everything you can dedication to prove a point that the Adventist Church is also guilty of doing also. But I believe that both the Catholic Church and the SDA Church and all other denominations that are pursuing the same ... they aren't going to succeed .... because all of these Churches are delusional thinking only themselves as they are "THE Church".

I came to believe that all believers from all denominations are part of Christ Church... but it is not all of these believers that are trained to be "God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."AV Re 5:10 "and shall reign with Him a thousand years" Re 20:6

Of course, I believe some SDAs, some Catholic believers, and some of many other denominations.... will be among these "overcomers" (aka 144k, the priests of the Melchizedek order, etc...).

And I'm 100% sure that all these overcomers coming from all denominations won't come into the SDA Church (like we teach & believe) or the Catholic Church (like they believe).....but will form the body of Christ's PRIESTS where the membership registry is in heaven.

The other members of the body that aren't part of the 1st resurrection and are not part of the body of "Kings and Priests" will be helping these overcomers with their functions. We see this in the type & shadow of the law with all the Levites families helping out with the task appointed to the High Priest family. The same type is also described again in Ezekiel 44 where we find that the "corrupt Levites" do not have access to the Priestly garment nor access to the Holy Place or "holy things", but are to help out with the task of the "Sons of Zadok". (see Ezk 44:11)
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
ProdigalOne, if I have offended you in any way I am truly sorry. This was not my intent. I am, however, disappointed by the tone of the responses. I do not believe this kind of response will lead to meaningful dialogue.

My point of view differs from yours. This forum allows differing views to be expressed without character attacks.


Nadi, I notice you have chosen not to respond to the questions and suggestions of my previous posts, that is your prerogative of course.

As for offending me, yes I did find your trite insult to Dedication offensive:
"Methinks ye partake of the kool-aid overmuch."

Your reply to Jesus words in Matthew was grin .

I am sorry that you are "disappointed by the tone of the responses", but what did you expect, a pat on the back for your maturity?


Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 05:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context.


Please post your sources.



I posted the source I quoted. If you want other sources google them.
Oh, but you did already find another source, since you handed a copy of the Pope's homily to your class. Since, it seems that you have already verified that the homily is posted on other sites, your request seems rather disingenuous.


Nadi, wheren't you asking sources for the text I supersized?

ProdigalOne, maybe you have a hard time following a discussion or there was some level of mis-understanding. I had the impression you were saying that 4 to 5 non-SDA sites had dedication's point of view. So I was looking forward to seeing these sources sites. But maybe I mis-understood also.

Nadi, be easy on our dear brother ProdigalOne. smile




Ah, Elle, I see that you are still stinging from our discussion on the Spiritual Formation Thread. I stand by what I said there, I believe you have a good heart and I admire your passion.

Oh, and your claim that I said I had found "4 to 5 non-SDA sites had dedication's point of view", is incorrect. Here are my exact words: "I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists."
No where did I say that any of these sites "had dedication's point of view".
I merely said that they contained "the text of the Pope's words".

You really should read posts more carefully before quoting them, especially in oversized font. If I understand correctly such large lettering is considered yelling, online?
Ouch!

Since, Nadi has apparently found his own source for the Pope's homily, I see no reason to post multiple links to the same sermon.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication
Let's stay with the subject.

I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world.
Its a "one world religion" not in dissolving the diverse religions, so much as changing them on the inside to the point where they no longer clash with each other and all harmonize in looking to the papacy as the "great shepherd" over all.


Check out the plan as outlined by Jesuit Karl Rahner and his partner Heinrich Fries.

They give eight steps.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of Churches
STEP ONE:
"The fundamental truths of Christianity, as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles' Creed and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the ONE CHURCH TO BE."


They elaborate by saying "The community assumes primacy over the individual." p.13
"The Church becomes the object of faith as ecclesia una, sanct, catholica, et apostolica (the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church) The 'I believe in the Church corresponds to the 'I believe in the Holy Spirit.' p21

The church is depicted as a "creature" of the Holy Spirit.

The unity they project can only be achieved if it is a community of faith and not one that worries about doctrines or believe systems or personal agendas. The theme throughout the plan is on the community of faith. In this the church takes precedence over the individual — theology can only be done in and by the community, not by the individuals.

Thesis I rests on the Creeds which express, in Fries words, "the fundamental truths of Christian faith. Furthermore, the Creed draws attention to the fact that faith is not a private matter. . .the public community of faith itself . . .has its support and basis of existence in the Creed." p. 16

Indeed -- the subject of the ten commandments came up in one of the previous posts. The Catholic church does believe in the ten commandments, BUT, since the church claims to be the "creature" of the Holy Spirit, they think they can adjust the ten commandments, having supposedly received that power through the Holy Spirit. Thus the change from Saturday to Sunday as the day "to remember" they claim is the sign of this authority.
And pope John Paul II in his "Dies Domini" (Lord's Day) apostolic letter of May 31, 1998, placed Sunday keeping under the imperative of the ten commandments!
And what is more -- he can quote a lot of nice sounding reasons for Sunday keeping from the traditions of the "church fathers". It's all 'good for the community of faith" for family values, etc.

Note: The Biblical apostles showed that religion does not consist in rites and ceremonies, creeds and theories.
It is not based on tradition and philosophies of men.

The one church to be...
The whole world (almost) will worship at the wrong shrine. Open your eyes and you will see this is being worked towards.




Dedication, I was not aware of this outline by Rahner and Fries.
Thank you for the info. It is remarkable how the papacy hides its
intentions in plain sight, relying on the world's general spiritual confusion
and semantic shading to cover her tracks.
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication
I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world.


dedication, I have never doubted that premise; anyone who says this is not their goal is disregarding the plain statements of the Catholic church.

However, the immediate context of my remarks is the perception by some that the Pope is telling Christians NOT to keep the commandments. He is simply not saying that. Commandment keeping is fundamental to Catholicism; he simply would not do that.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: dedication

The Vatican's goal -- to be the head of a one world ecumenically united religion.
Check out the eight steps of the plan as outlined by Jesuit Karl Rahner and his partner Heinrich Fries.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of Churches
STEP ONE:
"The fundamental truths of Christianity, as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles' Creed and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the ONE CHURCH TO BE."


Step one was to take religion out of the hands of the individual and place it in the church (see last post)

Let's remember the promise: "Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them." It is not the great cathedrals or prestigious religious establishments, it is the people who love God and keep His commandments.

Originally Posted By: The Unity of churches
STEP TWO:
Beyond that a realistic principle of faith should apply: Nothing may be rejected decisively and confessionally in one partner church with is binding dogma in another partner church. Furthermore, beyond Thesis 1 no explicit and positive confession in one partner church is imposed as dogma obligatory for another partner church. This is left to a broader consensus in the future. This applies, especially to authentic but undefined doctrinal decrees of the Roman church, particularly with regard to ethical questions. According to this principle only that would be done which is already practice in every church today.


The larger portion of this thesis concerns itself with the overwhelming explosion of knowledge, asserting that no one person could possibly understand even a corner of it. On top of that people don't understand each other because they come with different suppositions upon which they build. So basically in the end, we all need someone to take care of that for us.

Rayner writes: "As an individual one becomes ever more impotent; one has to depend more and more on the knowledge of others, which one can no longer assimilate or check oneself" p. 28 with the exception of "the few in the Roman Congregatio pro Doctrina et Fidei (used to be called the Inquisition) who must watch over and judge the orthodoxy ( p. 29) who have a better comprehension of things theological.

The Spirit of Prophecy through EGW predicted this very thing. Rahner's argument that the information explosion has created a qualitative and quantitative upheaval so great that one can no longer depend upon his own study to form his conclusions.

Note: This all adds up to the concept that no church structure is vocal about rejecting decisively as wrong any dogma or doctrine presents in another church
(except of course the three angels message because it goes directly against their plan calling people to come out when the religious voices are urging people to join and enjoin.)

Notice as well --
the plan is to get the various churches to unite and agree on things they don't really agree on. But no worries, it is to be left for a "broader consensus in the future". In other words -- agree on points you don't agree on, and on a later date it will be worked out.

So step two is basically saying -- get people to stop worrying so much about different doctrines, they aren't really smart enough to figure them out, or understand them anyway, so just get everyone focused on "common" ground, tolerating all, and at some future date doctrines will be dealt with.

Get them to walk into the trap with all the trimmings of love and tolerance and a nice experience based on emotions, and once they're in....

Note: The thought stressed is that the individual's brain becomes impotent and therefore must put his trust in the church . . .
"for the church itself is the guarantor, through its formal teaching authority, of the truth of the individual doctrines it presents.? P. 32



Step two is where the razor sharp teeth of the trap wait:

"...no explicit and positive confession in one partner church is imposed as dogma obligatory for another partner church. This is left to a broader consensus in the future. This applies, especially to authentic but undefined doctrinal decrees of the Roman church, particularly with regard to ethical questions."

What a nasty surprise is awaiting churches naive enough to surrender the spirit of Protestantism and unite with the Mother of Harlots.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: dedication
I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world.


dedication, I have never doubted that premise; anyone who says this is not their goal is disregarding the plain statements of the Catholic church.

However, the immediate context of my remarks is the perception by some that the Pope is telling Christians NOT to keep the commandments. He is simply not saying that. Commandment keeping is fundamental to Catholicism; he simply would not do that.


Sadly, it does not really matter if one believes what Francis is literally saying concerning Commandment keeping, or chooses to view his words through the lense of his persona as a kindly old man with good intentions.

What matters is the definition of the Commandments of God. The papacy is a master of double entendres: when she says the Ten Commandments, she means the the Catholic Ten Commandments with the Second Commandment, prohibiting the worship of graven images, completely removed and the Fourth Commandment changed from the Seventh Day, sanctified by God, to the first day sanctioned by man. She then splits the final Commandment regarding coveting into two separate commands, in order to make her counterfeit commandments total ten, in the same manner that a counterfeiter of money would engrave the number Ten on a fake bill. A nine dollar bill will fool no one, neither will a fake nine commandment Catholic moral code.

Whether the papacy denigrates the importance of the Ten Commandments or substitutes a false definition of sin, she still succeeds in her ultimate goal of spiritual conquest by substituting her words for the Word of God and leading the masses into the confusion of lawlessness.


Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: prodigalone
...
Oh, and your claim that I said I had found "4 to 5 non-SDA sites had dedication's point of view", is incorrect. Here are my exact words: "I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists."
No where did I say that any of these sites "had dedication's point of view".
I merely said that they contained "the text of the Pope's words".

You really should read posts more carefully before quoting them, especially in oversized font.

I think by saying 3 times in the quote below that maybe there was possibly of a mis-understanding of your quote.... is not claiming anything... it's not like you are letting on above.

You should read more carefully what I said also .... pay attention of the underlined and supersized texted that are meant to help pull your attention their [nothing more]:

Originally Posted By: elle
ProdigalOne, maybe you have a hard time following a discussion or there was some level of mis-understanding[on my part]. I had the impression you were saying that 4 to 5 non-SDA sites had dedication's point of view. So I was looking forward to seeing these sources sites. But maybe I mis-understood also.


Note the oversized text "on my part" emphasized in purple is my addition to add clarity but the next two sentences confirms what is added in purple -- that it was potentially my mis-understanding.

I think by saying it 3 times as emphasized in the quote above .... that I'm not making any claims what I understood you've said.

Originally Posted By: prodigalone
"If I understand correctly such large lettering is considered yelling, online?
Ouch!

Isn't it all Caps that is used at time for yelling. See above, I didn't use All Caps. I only increased the font size to pull attention to that particular text. One of my usual style employed to emphasize some portion of the text...
Posted By: Elle

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 10:25 PM

I don't want to discuss about attacking believers.... Let's get down into studying what scripture says instead ...

I would like dedication or ProdigalOne or Alchemy or anyone else that agrees with dedication opening post to respond to my 2nd post of this discussion that I repeat and point out again below :

Originally Posted By: elle
Originally Posted By: dedication
I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world.

Well as I said in my 2nd post in this discussion... the Adventist Church is pursuing the same thing because they also believe & teach they are [or will become] the spiritual leader of the world?????

Isn't this pure hypocrisy?

Not only the Catholics, the Adventists, or who other Christian based denomination who thinks they are the "TRUE" Church but actually also all the differents faiths in the Jews, Islamics, and other main religions. Also all those who believes they are one of the "ascended" ones and all those Royal Families with their "right to rule" given by God and the luciferians.... Everyone are saying the same things is in their own ways and pursuing to become "the spiritual leaders of the world". There's nothing new here. This has been going on since Adam. That's a typical childish behavior who doesn't know any better that it is the Lord who appoints who He wishes (Rom 9). And I believe their will be a representations of all differents groups mentioned above.

Originally Posted By: dedication
Its a "one world religion"....

You are twisting everything you can dedication to prove a point that the Adventist Church is also guilty of doing also. But I believe that both the Catholic Church and the SDA Church and all other denominations that are pursuing the same ... they aren't going to succeed .... because all of these Churches are delusional thinking only themselves as they are "THE Church".

I came to believe that all believers from all denominations are part of Christ Church... but it is not all of these believers that are trained to be "God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."AV Re 5:10 "and shall reign with Him a thousand years" Re 20:6

Of course, I believe some SDAs, some Catholic believers, and some of many other denominations.... will be among these "overcomers" (aka 144k, the priests of the Melchizedek order, etc...).

And I'm 100% sure that all these overcomers coming from all denominations won't come into the SDA Church (like we teach & believe) or the Catholic Church (like they believe).....but will form the body of Christ's PRIESTS where the membership registry is in heaven.

The other members of the body that aren't part of the 1st resurrection and are not part of the body of "Kings and Priests" will be helping these overcomers with their functions. We see this in the type & shadow of the law with all the Levites families helping out with the task appointed to the High Priest family. The same type is also described again in Ezekiel 44 where we find that the "corrupt Levites" do not have access to the Priestly garment nor access to the Holy Place or "holy things", but are to help out with the task of the "Sons of Zadok". (see Ezk 44:11)
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/15/17 11:19 PM

Elle, on this I agree with you. God's TRUE church is made up of sincere believers in all denominations and religions. It is those who submit their will to God and accept His grace. They try to live in peace with everyone and do good to all.

No one denomination is God's "true" church. In fact, the very idea of denominations goes against Christian principles in that it causes divisions. Paul says this in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. "Is Christ divided?"

There are certain fundamentals which establish Christianity. (Those are not the topic of this thread.) These supersede denominational boundaries and creedal statements. We should not allow our differences to define us, but rather our unity in Christ.

Any church which claims to be "God's TRUE church" is in the same category as the Catholic church.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 04:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Elle

Well as I said in my 2nd post in this discussion... the Adventist Church is pursuing the same thing because they also believe & teach they are [or will become] the spiritual leader of the world?????

Isn't this pure hypocrisy?


No, Adventists are NOT in any way pursuing the same goal.

You have missed the key element of the difference in following the Lord's command in witnessing to the world the message of truth, and the counterfeit goal of enforcing a spiritual conformity by law upon the world.

Paul the apostle to the Gentiles was a powerful witness to the world, but he used no political clout to enforce it on anyone. He was doing it God's way.

But study the history of the Catholic church -- it was all about using civil penalties and armies to mandate people's compliance to the church. There was the stake for those who would not concede to her claims. There were massacres on a scale that will never be known until revealed in the Judgment. There was the inquisition that studied how to torture people to the brink of their endurance in order to compel them to recant their beliefs. The inquisition is still in operation today under a different name " In 1965 it became the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith". Interestingly Rahner names them as the exception in humanities inability to comprehend truth amongst the deluge of information.

Originally Posted By: Elle
Not only the Catholics, the Adventists, or who other Christian based denomination who thinks they are the "TRUE" Church but actually also all the differents faiths in the Jews, Islamics, and other main religions. Also all those who believes they are one of the "ascended" ones and all those Royal Families with their "right to rule" given by God and the luciferians.... Everyone are saying the same things is in their own ways and pursuing to become "the spiritual leaders of the world". There's nothing new here. This has been going on since Adam. That's a typical childish behavior who doesn't know any better that it is the Lord who appoints who He wishes (Rom 9). And I believe their will be a representations of all differents groups mentioned above.


As I mentioned above -- there is a big difference in a firm belief in what one finds in the Word of God, and sharing that belief with others, as opposed to forcing that belief with the use of political, civil and military methods. Indeed the Muslims have the same agenda, and I personally believe there will be a show down between the two that will vault the papacy into the lead so people herald him as "the savior of the world". The protestants are also becoming more and more political minded, hoping to gain the power of the state to enforce religion.
Protestants will join hands with the papacy (many steps toward this have already been taken) to enforce, using state power, their religion on the masses. They are all seeking to establish an earthly kingdom.

And that is where the danger comes in --
People are already thinking of the papacy as "the savior of the world" in the midst of a lot of turmoil.

They don't realize they are heading straight back into the tyranny of the middle ages -- only it will be worse!

Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: dedication
Its a "one world religion"....

You are twisting everything you can dedication to prove a point that the Adventist Church is also guilty of doing also. But I believe that both the Catholic Church and the SDA Church and all other denominations that are pursuing the same ... they aren't going to succeed .... because all of these Churches are delusional thinking only themselves as they are "THE Church".


As mentioned above, the Adventist church has a totally different goal -- one of sharing the truth of the three angels messages with the world -- yes. BUT they have NO goal of enforcing it by military, political, or civil power and penalties.

The kingdom we look for is not of this world.
We aren't into "restructuring" the worldly governments and forcing people to believe anything.

Now a lot of Adventists may very well forsake true Adventism and join the religious coalition led by the papacy in enforcing the papal goals -- but that is NOT true Adventism.

There is no salvation in a church --
But there is a TRUE message of warning that must be sounded to the world. And God will have a people who will sound that message.
Our message is one of warning, not of setting up a physical kingdom here in this world, but escaping the counterfeit kingdom, and directing people to prepare to meet the REAL Jesus, Our Savior, in the air, when He comes to take us to His Father's house.

Here is the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and they will enter the heavenly Jerusalem to worship before the throne of God and the Lamb.
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 05:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Nadi


No one denomination is God's "true" church. In fact, the very idea of denominations goes against Christian principles in that it causes divisions. Paul says this in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. "Is Christ divided?"

There are certain fundamentals which establish Christianity. (Those are not the topic of this thread.) These supersede denominational boundaries and creedal statements. We should not allow our differences to define us, but rather our unity in Christ.

Any church which claims to be "God's TRUE church" is in the same category as the Catholic church.


It's true that connection with a church does not take the place of conversion. There is no salvation in having your name on a church list, we need to have our names in the Lamb's book of Life!
God's honest followers are scattered throughout the churches, including honest Christians in the Catholic churches. They are following Christ to the best of their knowledge.

The last call isn't to join a church, but to join a movement to keep all of God's commands, including the fourth, and to have the faith of Jesus. It's a call of full commitment to Christ in the face of universal counterfeit religion and opposition.

That does mean leaving the Sunday keeping coalition of religious bodies, who will be enforcing Sunday rest and undermining the true Sabbath -- to unite with them will not be uniting with truth -- church or no church.

You actually just gave a classic summary of Thesis One and two of the Jesuit plan for unity of the churches.

Originally Posted By: Jesuit Rahner's thesis for unity of the churches

Theses One: The fundamental truths of Christianity as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles Creed, and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the one Church to be.

Theses Two: Furthermore, beyond thesis I no explicit and positive confession in one partner church is imposed as dogma obligatory for another partner church. The is left to a broader consensus in the future. This applies especially to authentic but undefined doctrinal decrees of the Roman church ...According to this principle only that would be done which is already practice in every church today.


You wrote: "There are certain fundamentals which establish Christianity."

Defined by whom?
The ones that don't go too deep, and remain vague?

Obviously the Catholic version of salvation is very different from the version of salvation we heard from the Protestant Reformation. Yet now the evangelicals sign an agreement with Catholic leaders, that they agree on righteousness by faith. How can this be?

"Is Christ divided"?
No, Christ is not divided, but people definitely are divided. If unity at all costs were really Christ's mission why didn't He unite everyone under the synagogue system? Just think of the unity He could have had if He would have enlisted the Jewish leadership in His group? But instead he caused a huge division -- why? Because truth mattered!
Yes, Nadi -- there is truth, and there is counterfeit, and the two will never unite.
Unity must be IN the truth, not in ignoring the unpopular truths.
Thus yes, we seek to find a group of believers in truth to unite with, not melt into a murky unity of diversity and ambiguity as to what is truth.
To "forget about the truth" and agree upon that which we really disagree upon, for the sake of unity is actually to turn away from unity in Christ and join the counterfeit.
Posted By: Nadi

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 05:42 AM

dedication, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't imagine living my life in such fear and fanaticism.

When paranoia puts words in people's mouths that they just didn't say one must wonder about THAT agenda.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 07:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Nadi
dedication, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't imagine living my life in such fear and fanaticism.

When paranoia puts words in people's mouths that they just didn't say one must wonder about THAT agenda.



Hmm, calling people that you disagree with paranoid, and accusing them of having an "agenda". And, did you just infer that dedication is a fanatic?

"Is this the kind of response (that) will lead to meaningful dialogue"?


Nadi, I'm not sure if you are referring to dedication's "paranoia" or mine, or perhaps both?
If you are still directing gibes at me, let's take a closer look at the words that paranoia puts in people's mouths.

This text is taken from the (non-SDA) Catholic website, angelqueen.org,

http://angelqueen.org/2017/02/01/pope-ac...0-commandments/

The ellipses are not omitted words, this is where Francis paused during his sermon:

“‘Not taking risks, please, no . . . prudence . . .’ ‘Obeying all the commandments, all of them . . .’” "Yes, it’s true, but this paralyzes you too, it makes you forget so many graces received, it takes away memory, it takes away hope, because it doesn’t allow you to go forward.”
Such people become “confined souls” who suffer from the sin of “cowardice,” the pope added. “And the presen[ce] of a Christian, of such a Christian, is like when one goes along the street and an unexpected rain comes, and the garment is not so good and the fabric shrinks . . . Confined souls . . . This is cowardliness: this is the sin against memory, courage, patience, and hope.”


"Obeying all the commandments, all of them..."Yes, it’s true, but this paralyzes you too". (Keeping the Commandments paralyzes you?)

"Such people become “confined souls” who suffer from the sin of “cowardice".
(People who keep the commandments become "confined souls", does this mean Commandment keeping is a prison for the soul? "...who suffer from the sin of “cowardice." It is cowardice to obey God?)

"Confined souls . . . This is cowardliness: this is the sin against memory, courage, patience, and hope.” (Keeping the Commandments is not only cowardliness, it is a SIN against memory, courage, patience, and hope?)

Am I being paranoid, or did the Pope just say that keeping the commandments is a sin?

Strange, John said, "sin is the transgression of the law."

"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
1John 3:3-6

Please, point out where I have misquoted, or taken words out of context.

Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 07:48 AM

Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Elle

Well as I said in my 2nd post in this discussion... the Adventist Church is pursuing the same thing because they also believe & teach they are [or will become] the spiritual leader of the world?????

Isn't this pure hypocrisy?


No, Adventists are NOT in any way pursuing the same goal.

You have missed the key element of the difference in following the Lord's command in witnessing to the world the message of truth, and the counterfeit goal of enforcing a spiritual conformity by law upon the world.

Paul the apostle to the Gentiles was a powerful witness to the world, but he used no political clout to enforce it on anyone. He was doing it God's way.

But study the history of the Catholic church -- it was all about using civil penalties and armies to mandate people's compliance to the church. There was the stake for those who would not concede to her claims. There were massacres on a scale that will never be known until revealed in the Judgment. There was the inquisition that studied how to torture people to the brink of their endurance in order to compel them to recant their beliefs. The inquisition is still in operation today under a different name " In 1965 it became the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith". Interestingly Rahner names them as the exception in humanities inability to comprehend truth amongst the deluge of information.

Originally Posted By: Elle
Not only the Catholics, the Adventists, or who other Christian based denomination who thinks they are the "TRUE" Church but actually also all the differents faiths in the Jews, Islamics, and other main religions. Also all those who believes they are one of the "ascended" ones and all those Royal Families with their "right to rule" given by God and the luciferians.... Everyone are saying the same things is in their own ways and pursuing to become "the spiritual leaders of the world". There's nothing new here. This has been going on since Adam. That's a typical childish behavior who doesn't know any better that it is the Lord who appoints who He wishes (Rom 9). And I believe their will be a representations of all differents groups mentioned above.


As I mentioned above -- there is a big difference in a firm belief in what one finds in the Word of God, and sharing that belief with others, as opposed to forcing that belief with the use of political, civil and military methods. Indeed the Muslims have the same agenda, and I personally believe there will be a show down between the two that will vault the papacy into the lead so people herald him as "the savior of the world". The protestants are also becoming more and more political minded, hoping to gain the power of the state to enforce religion.
Protestants will join hands with the papacy (many steps toward this have already been taken) to enforce, using state power, their religion on the masses. They are all seeking to establish an earthly kingdom.

And that is where the danger comes in --
People are already thinking of the papacy as "the savior of the world" in the midst of a lot of turmoil.

They don't realize they are heading straight back into the tyranny of the middle ages -- only it will be worse!

Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: dedication
Its a "one world religion"....

You are twisting everything you can dedication to prove a point that the Adventist Church is also guilty of doing also. But I believe that both the Catholic Church and the SDA Church and all other denominations that are pursuing the same ... they aren't going to succeed .... because all of these Churches are delusional thinking only themselves as they are "THE Church".


As mentioned above, the Adventist church has a totally different goal -- one of sharing the truth of the three angels messages with the world -- yes. BUT they have NO goal of enforcing it by military, political, or civil power and penalties.

The kingdom we look for is not of this world.
We aren't into "restructuring" the worldly governments and forcing people to believe anything.

Now a lot of Adventists may very well forsake true Adventism and join the religious coalition led by the papacy in enforcing the papal goals -- but that is NOT true Adventism.

There is no salvation in a church --
But there is a TRUE message of warning that must be sounded to the world. And God will have a people who will sound that message.
Our message is one of warning, not of setting up a physical kingdom here in this world, but escaping the counterfeit kingdom, and directing people to prepare to meet the REAL Jesus, Our Savior, in the air, when He comes to take us to His Father's house.

Here is the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and they will enter the heavenly Jerusalem to worship before the throne of God and the Lamb.




Dedication, I agree that there the plan is for a final confrontation between Islam and the papacy. As you said in your post:

"Indeed the Muslims have the same agenda, and I personally believe there will be a show down between the two that will vault the papacy into the lead so people herald him as "the savior of the world"."

What are your thoughts on the conciliatory stance the Pope us now taking toward Islam?
Could this be subterfuge to paint the papacy as the injured party, when the inevitable conflict occurs?


Here is an interesting two year old article from National Report.Net:

"On Monday the Bishop Of Rome addressed Catholic followers regarding the dire importance of exhibiting religious tolerance. During his hour-long speech, a smiling Pope Francis was quoted telling the Vatican’s guests that the Koran, and the spiritual teachings contained therein, are just as valid as the Holy Bible.
Jesus Christ, Jehovah, Allah. These are all names employed to describe an entity that is distinctly the same across the world. For centuries, blood has been needlessly shed because of the desire to segregate our faiths. This, however, should be the very concept which unites us as people, as nations, and as a world bound by faith. Together, we can bring about an unprecedented age of peace, all we need to achieve such a state is respect each others beliefs, for we are all children of God regardless of the name we choose to address him by. We can accomplish miraculous things in the world by merging our faiths, and the time for such a movement is now. No longer shall we slaughter our neighbors over differences in reference to their God.”

The pontiff drew harsh criticisms in December after photos of the 78-year-old Catholic leader was released depicting Pope Francis kissing a Koran. The Muslim Holy Book was given to Francis during a meeting with Muslim leaders after a lengthy Muslim prayer held at the Vatican."

http://nationalreport.net/pope-Francis-followers-Koran-holy-bible/


Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 08:31 AM

Moving on to thesis three or step three from Jesuit Rahner and Heinrich Fries book outlining the steps to unity of the churches.

We found the first steps placed emphases on "community of faith" rather than individual conviction.
"The community assumes primacy over the individual." p.13
People unite under the basic tenants of Christianity as universally defined, and agree to be agreeable on doctrinal difference since no one (other then the Roman Congregation of Faith) really understands what truth is anyway and it will ultimately be defined in the future.

STEP THREE
Originally Posted By: Unity of the Churches an Actual Possibility

In this one church of Jesus Christ, composed of the uniting churches, there are regional partner churches which can, to a large extent maintain their existing structure. These partner churches can also continue to exist in the same territory , since this is not impossible in the context of Catholic ecclesiology or the practice of the Roman church as for example in Palestine.


As I stated in a previous post:
"This "one world religion" isn't going to dissolve the diverse religions, so much as change them on the inside to the point where they no longer clash with each other and all harmonize in looking to the papacy as the "great shepherd" over all.

We see this more in the explanation:

Basically they write that most churches teach the basic gospel message, but as to doctrines no one worries if the members don't fully understand or agree with all the dogmas.

Page 35 "It would be naïve to assume that, in every case, that the believer affirms a proposition and understands it in the official sense of the church ....nor should they be significantly troubled by it, because it would be exceeding their realistic potential to require more of them than they actually achieve. By participating in the life of the church, they prayerfully and hopefully grasp the fundamental truths of the gospel's message and let everything else slide, without raising the decisive protest of a conscience worried about tis salvation."


The book describes the unity churches already enjoy as they cooperate in many areas and how this needs to continue in greater measure.

Churches are to maintain their existing structures, but they form a sisterhood of pluralism. "Rome must not ask for their dissolution in order to achieve unity,.. . .there must be fraternal exchanges and intensive cooperation among the theologians of these churches."



Herein is the greatest danger — the structure of the churches remain — but the inside is totally changed to fit the mold.

Again that is exactly what we see happening--
Change the church -- de-emphasize doctrines- preach mainly generic sermons
--so the church will fit into the scheme of the great deceptive "one church of the future" religious movement.


But now comes the crunch:
What about those things they agreed to agree on even though they did not agree?
"The solution to these problems will nevertheless require that all sides give up a certain number of old familiar customs, so as to make possible not just coexistence with tolerance and much indifference but a true unity....
it refers to mutual concessions which would make the coexistence of partner churches in unity and diversity more fruitful to all and which would enable their service to the world." p. 52

Note: The idea is to decide first in favor of unity then, they will have to give up a certain number of "old familiar customs."


And they will eventually have to accept the Catholic sacraments;

" The Reformation churches, at least at first glance, acknowledge only two of the seven sacraments as they exist in the Roman church...In the future the partner churches of the Reformation will essentially have to acknowledge and observe the remaining sacraments in principle, even though they actual practice of them need not be identical with that of the existing Roman church. " p. 55

The plan is to focus on the leaders in the churches--get them in partnership with the plan — if the leaders are changed they will then lead their churches into change that will render them acceptable to the unification.

"It is self evident that there must be fraternal exchanges and intensive cooperation among the theologians of the partner churches [p.51]

Some pretty strong words there -- intensive cooperation among the theologians of the different churches.

They are to work at getting the membership on board.

"The ecclesiastical leaders of the churches of the Reformation will make sufficiently sure of the support of the majority of their members before making the decision [for the unity with other churches] p. 53

Now comes Rahner's stunning foundation statement:

"With respect to ecclesiastical leadership the average congregation in the Protestant churches in fact usually practices the kind of obedience to their church leaders that is customary in the roman Catholic church. Therefore one should not overestimate the danger of a rebellion at the grass roots against their ecclesiastical leaders' decisions regarding unification. On the basis of their theological expertise and their religious conscience, the representatives of this ecclesiastical leadership can decide in favor of church unity, and can also work with sufficient zeal among the church members to gain their understanding for this decision" p. 54


So now -- having convinced the people that the "community of faith" is the most important aspect of salvation -- all they need to do is get enough leaders changed and the people will follow like sheep to destruction.


Do we see any of this happening?
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 10:11 AM


I'm certain most of you have seen this video, but since it is particularly relevant to
Rahner's statement on p. 54, I will post it here:

Doug Batchelor Analyzes Pope's Threat of "Unity or Else"

https://youtu.be/7kgxEvIDoGs
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/16/17 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne


Dedication, I agree that there the plan is for a final confrontation between Islam and the papacy. As you said in your post:

"Indeed the Muslims have the same agenda, and I personally believe there will be a show down between the two that will vault the papacy into the lead so people herald him as "the savior of the world"."

What are your thoughts on the conciliatory stance the Pope us now taking toward Islam?
Could this be subterfuge to paint the papacy as the injured party, when the inevitable conflict occurs?



Using opposite problems to reach a preplanned objective.
The Islamic religion was encouraged by papal influence in it's beginnings in the plan to quell the eastern churches that stood against papal dominance. But the Islamics took on a life of their own that threatened the Papal position.

Now you will notice the distinction between "good" Islam and "bad" Islam is becoming very prominent. Islam is persecuted by Islam!!! Papacy will work to protect good Islam from bad Islam in the unification of religions program. IMO
Posted By: dedication

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/20/17 07:59 AM

So how far have we come in this plan for a "one church of the future" which is seeking to integrate all the churches without actually dissolving them?

1. Focus on the "community of believers" rather than individualism.

2. Set divisive doctrines into the background and agree to agree even if you don't really agree, the objections will all be worked out at a future date.

3. Don't dissolve the churches, simply train the religious leaders to lead their flocks into the unity mindset, getting them to give up some of the "objectional" ideas and beliefs, and submerging them more into the mystical sacraments of the Catholic church.

Now we come to Step four.
The authors of the book divided step four into Thesis IVa and Thesis IVb.
So we will deal with Thesis IVA here.

This one is the eye opener, if the others have not been.

Originally Posted By: Unity of Churches an Actual Possibility

All partner churches acknowledge the meaning and right of the Petrine service of the Roman pope to be the concrete guarantor of the unity of the Church in truth and love.


Rahner and Fries then build their case on the Catholic interpretation of Christ's statement to Peter in Matthew 16.
16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him,... thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:


The thesis inferring the church is built on "Peter" rather than our understanding that the church is built upon the solid Rock which is Christ.

It is extremely important for us to understand--
1. Who is the Rock and
2. Who has the keys
for as we enter in final events we will probably encounter them more and more frequently.

Look at the whole passage in the Bible. Jesus asked the disciples a question "Who do men say that I am?" Peter answers, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God". However, Jesus declares that Peter did not have any room to boast, even in making this profound declaration "for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but My Father wich is in heaven."
Then Jesus does a play on words, contrasting Peter' name with Himself. "And I say also unto thee, you are Peter (petros, a small, rolling stone) and upon this Rock (petra, and immovable mountain of rock) I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The gates of hell did prevail against Peter when he denied his Lord with cursing and swearing. The church was built upon One against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.
Scriptures has many instances where Christ is called the rock.'

Only a church built upon the firm foundation which is Christ, will stand firm in the storms of life.

THE KEYS
In Revelation 1:18 and 3;7. it declares Christ as have the keys.

"The Keys of the kingdom of heaven are the words of Christ. All the words of Holy Scripture are His, and are here included. These words have the power to open and to shut heaven. They declare the conditions upon which people are received or rejected. Thus the work of those who preach God's word is savor of life unto life or of death unto death.. Theirs is a mission weighted with eternal results."

Instead of appointing one man to be "the head" of the church, Christ said to the disciples, "Be not called Rabbi, neither be called master: for One is your Master, even Christ Matthew 23:8,10.
and verse 9 -- "And call no one your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

In this theses, put out by the Jesuit Rayner and his co-writer Fries, the ultimate aim of the papacy gaining authority over all churches is obviously where this plan is heading.
Posted By: Garywk

Re: Papal ambitions - 03/20/17 08:58 AM

Quote:
But now comes the crunch:
What about those things they agreed to agree on even though they did not agree?
"The solution to these problems will nevertheless require that all sides give up a certain number of old familiar customs, so as to make possible not just coexistence with tolerance and much indifference but a true unity....
it refers to mutual concessions which would make the coexistence of partner churches in unity and diversity more fruitful to all and which would enable their service to the world." p. 52


I have seen this a lot. It is also inside the SDA church in a big way. Sad, but true.
© 2024 Maritime 2nd Advent Christian Believers OnLine Forums Consisting Mainly of Both Members & Friends of the SDA (Seventh-day Adventist) Church