How does the Bible use the word "forever","eternal", "for ever"?

How do we understand what the Bible means when the word "forever", "eternal", "for ever" is used in Scripture in reference to something or someone ?

The historical gramatical method is used. But what is the historical gramatical method? Readers of S.K.Pippim please defer and let others dig and we will all discuss it.

Someone asked that since Christ is a High Priest "Forever" did forever begin in 1844 ?

It is a valid question that asks what does the Bible mean when it says forever? When Jesus removes His High Priest garments and puts on the robes of King of Kings how does this affect our understanding the Biblical use of the term "forever", "for Ever", "eternal" ?

If I the long winded can keep off the keyboard and let others dig and reply there ought to be a lively discussion. Since He "ever " liveth to make intercession, is part of the present work He went to do in the Most Holy Place I hope things get Biblically animated in a good and kind way.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

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Edward F. Sutton

Well Ed...

You are right. This is a really good question that I have often faced in Bible studies with people from other denominations.

One of the easiest places for me to start with this one is Jude 7:

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrah...are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

These two cities are an example of "everlasting fire." Are these two cities still burning today? (only if you're Jonathan Edwards!).

1 Thes. 1:9 calls it "everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord."

Meaning that it's results last forever; but do not continue forever.

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"The joy of the Lord will be your strength." (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited July 22, 2000).]

The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, just means a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used over and over in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended.

In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See also Jonah 1:17). In Deuteronomy 23:3, this means "10 generations." So "forever" doesn't necessarily mean that something has been going on ever since the beginning of time or that it will continue on till the end of it.

In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "till death." (See Psalm 48:14;
1 Samuel 1:22,28; Exodus 21:6

Sometimes I do wonder though, that if God knew we would in our modern day not really have the same idea of what "forever" meant- why then didn't He have those guys in the Bible use a different word then forever? I guess so we'd have something to talk about in here

Claudia

although, now that I think about it, that would be awful if "eternal" Life meant the same thing...

wow, I think I need to think about this some more, I had to go back and re-read what Ed said about the High priest...

hmmmmmmmmmm,,, thats an interesting topic..

Don't worry Claudia, the same thought occured to me once. God answered me this way. Sodom was destroyed. The results are eternal. God is life. The results are eternal. There are two sides. Eternal death (nothingness) or eternal life. So when it refers to life it really does mean forever. And just the other day the contractor put up the concrete steps on our house and told me they would last forever. (For as long as I will need them) So we still use that same meaning for forever as does the Bible without even realizing it.

There is a reference to a jewish slave that decides to remain a slave standing near the door post and having his ear drilled with an awl, signifying that he will be a slave forever.

Does this mean for eternity? No!

There will be no slavery in the new earth.

It meant as long as he lived, he would be a slave.

Gerry B.

Excellent discussion. Keep it up. Now that the concept is begining to be touched on, if folks have Bible programs, let's start word studies with definitions. Print out the verses first then pull up the same verses with the definition numbers, then below that put in the pertinant numbers with the definitions.

Once these are posted we will move to context.

After that we will request those with access to full text Bible languages, post these & explain them, then we pull up SOP on each verse or give references.

We could not only have fun digging in the books & picking each other's brains; but also building our own repitouir of Bible studies.

Anybody know how to spell repitouir?)

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Edward F. Sutton

The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, just means a period of time, limited or unlimited. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... although, now that I think about it, that would be awful if "eternal" Life meant the same thing...
	quote: Claudia Burrow

Don't worry Claudia, the same thought occured to me once. God answered me this way. Sodom was destroyed. The results are eternal.
	quote: Dan Wilson

As I understand it, in the original language the words that have been translated to our English word "forever" does not indicate a specific length of time. It could be used in the context of a limited scope of time, or used in the context of eternity.

The duration would be defined, not in the use of the word itself, but in the context in which the word was used. As I understand it, this was also found to be the case in the secular writings of those days; though I don't remember where it was I had read that.

Even though the duration of time is not defined in the use of the word itself, my understanding is that the word infers that there is no break, relief or suspension from the event being described, until that event has concluded.

For example, there were no relief from the fires that destroyed Sodom. The fires did not stop and then start up again later. It was a constant fire that burned constantly while the city was being destroyed. There was no relief, not even for a moment.

Furthermore, the results of the fire (i.e. the destruction of the city) is eternal.

Likewise, the fires of hell will give no relief until the destruction is complete. And then the results (i.e. the destruction) will be everlasting.

Apart from Christ, there is no life.

Thus we have the choice: Eternal Life, or Eternal Death.

I too would like to see this discussion continue, especially with those who may have resources which provides information on the meanings of words used in the original text.

-Dennis Borg

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
05769-from Strong*s concordance:ever 272, everlasting 63, old 22, perpetual 22, evermore 15, never 13, time 6, ancient 5, world 4, always 3, alway 2, long 2, more 2, never + 0408 2, misc 6; 439
The phrase for ever appears in the Bible (OT) 439 times, how it is used is shown above.
Here is the rest of the explanation:
1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
1a) ancient time, long time (of past)
1b) (of future)
1b1) for ever, always
1b2) continuous existence, perpetual
1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
That's all for now.

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

It's too bad this discussion ended abruptly where it did, and that those posting had such poor definitions and understandings to work from. Our traditional concept of "'for ever' doesn't mean what it says because Sodom is gone" is just a poor way of laying aside the scripture too quickly without having truly studied it. We Adventists have a bad habit--explain the Bible's difficult passages in the first/best way we can based on the little we presently know. This is the lazy way. It is the way that caters to our human pride. We think it's safe to presume that the way that seems right in our own mind must be true.

People don't like to admit it when they don't know something--not even to themselves. We prefer the comfort of knowing. It is human nature. Interestingly, the "blind spots" in our eyes get filled in for us similarly. Our minds essentially "ad lib" for us to give us a full and complete picture, even when we do not actually "see" everything. If you think this is only because you have two eyes, and one fills in for the other, try closing one and seeing if a blind spot shows up. It won't. Your mind fills in the hole. This is just what happens when we Adventists look at Scripture and don't know something. We fill it in with the best we can come up with.

Now, for the answer...

The Bible means what it says. "Forever" is just that. The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha IS forever. That fire still exists. Why? The fire is God. God destroyed those wicked cities. How do we know the fire is God? The Bible tells us so. "For our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:29). "For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God" (Deuteronomy 4:24). Remember Moses? Why was the bush burning? Remember the Pillar of Fire? Who was that? Remember the cloves of fire over the apostles' heads? Who/What was that? Remember the fire on the mountain with Elijah? Remember...and we could mention many more instances of fire coming from God or representing Him throughout the Bible. This is no mere coincidence. God is purposeful in representing Himself to us as Fire. It is one aspect of His nature. But one more...remember the "Faithful and True"? "His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself." (Revelation 19:12) "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire." (Revelation 10:1) "These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;..." (Revelation 2:18). Jesus tells us that He is the "bright and morning star" (Revelation 22:16). That is the sun. The sun, as all stars, is a ball of fire. God tells us plainly that He is a consuming fire. Now, for the big question: IS GOD ETERNAL?

God will never end. That is why the FIRE that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha was an eternal fire. Hell fire is also eternal for the same reason. Study Isaiah 33:14 carefully, and compare it with Isaiah 43:3, Psalm 15, and other passages to discover this important truth for yourselves.

When we start meddling with the definitions, saying things like "'eternal' just means 'until it ends,'" or "'wrath of God' really means 'wrath of Satan,'" we end up making very grave errors with our improper interpretations of Scripture. Does it really?

Consider well these things.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Unfortunately the above post seems to address the "fire of God" rather than the question presented in the opening post, which was:

It would seem that various bible writers had different intentions when using the terms. For example, Jonah 2:6 vs. John 3:16. The same term did not always mean exactly the same thing to all writers or hearers. Each use should probably be examined on a case by case basis, especially if the passage is being discussed, or used to support some doctrine or idea.

Have you checked the Hebrew(Olam) and Greek(anion) definition of the word? and then check how these are used within the context of scripture? and see if you can draw out God's definition and usage of the word? you probably do this right?