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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*
Can anyone else relate? Does anyone have suggestions to help me get a blessing out of the service itself?
__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace
Daryl 
[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited May 03, 2001).]
Deut. 8:3 and Jer. 15:16 also direct our thoughts in the direction mine have taken. I could, of course, tell you where my thoughts have gone, but I would love some discussion about it before doing so, and I would like to know if others will also draw this conclusion before sharing mine and influencing the thought patterns. Just so you know why I am not posting all my thoughts just yet.
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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*
The bread and wine of communion represents the blood and body of our Lord Jesus who was sacrificed for us upon Calvery.
To partake of this most holy service is to understand that we have one who died for us as our "Passover Lamb" who is saving us from our sins, and that His life is an offering for our sinful life and that we have enterd into the New covenant with God.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. (John 6:53-59)
To feast on Jesus is to obey His commands with loving obedience, why??? Because He is our Passover Lamb who first Loved us...
...--frenchmon
[This message has been edited by frenchmon (edited June 19, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by frenchmon (edited June 19, 2001).]
My wife and I had a meaningful discussion about communnion about this very thing... if it should be an open service or not...I myself think this service should be closed... that we need to be as whatchman over the importance of this sacrament.
We need to sort of know the people who take part in this, and those we don't know we need to ask them to give a testimony of their faith (privatly) in Christ before the service starts...
The bible says those who do this in an unworthy manner do this to their death, that many are sick for this same reason.
While I don't think you were out of line for letting you daughter take communion, many have no idea how important this service is. Please Lisa...let me encourage you to continue to fellowship and have communion at your SDA church and not let those whom have the wrong idea to chase you off...this is what the enemy of our souls would like...to divide us and discourage us out of the fellowship of the brethern...
Blessings to you and yours...--frenchmon
You said:
"I however do disagree with the theory of hearing someones testamony privatly, that goes into the area of judgement. "
Lisa...The bible calls us to be as watchmen...there are many examples in the bible of this. Therefore we must ask in order to be as watchmen over what is holy, and communion is a holy sacrament for the believer in Christ. We need not know the personal history of strangers...only if they are in good standing with God through Jesus our Lord...After this, we have done our part and no blood is on us but the other person if he mis-uses the communion service.
As to your claim of passing judgment...the bible tells us we can know them by the fruit they bear...not that we are reading the heart, which would be judgment, but we see and hear the testimony of the person...you yourself said:
". I know where her heart stands with Jesus and I know that she did and does not think of it as "snack".
You did not pass judgment by claiming to know the motive of her heart but only saw the fruit of her heart...
Yes we are all accountable to God, but we also must be accountable for the things of God...
blessings Lisa...--frenchmon
What, exactly, does the right of communion (bread and "wine") stand for? What does it mean? Is it, as some believe, partaking of the true flesh and blood of Jesus? or is it something deeper? Why do we partake of communion, beyond that Jesus asks us to? What was His purpose, what did He wish us to see, remember, feel when we partake of His Last Supper?
...let me makes things a little clearer.All we have to do is ask strangers are they in good standing with the Lord. If they say no, then we ask them not to take part in the sacrament until they are...they should examine themselves...
Paul writes:
"whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, *unworthily*, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. *For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body*. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."
Lisa...Those who eat in a worthy manner do remember the Lord's death till He comes...they are nolonger of the law of Sin and death...those who eat unworthy are of the law sin and death and need a warning from us...therefore if they are not found worthy, we should not be happy to see them eat...they make a mokery of the sacrament...why would they want to eat it anyhow??? why would we, being a servant of Christ, not have love and compassion on the unworthy person wanting to eat...I believe with all my heart that a closed communion to those who are not worthy is best...
Blessings...--frenchmonn
"It grieves me to hear people telling others what they can or can't or should or shouldn't do in their personal relationship with God. God sees the heart and His is the only opinion we need to be concerned with. Each person has their own interpretation of right and wrong, but we need to go on the Biblical interpretation of right and wrong."
Sarah...I am sorry you feel that way...if what you say is true, then you show you have no love for your brother or sister...the bible has set forth teacher and preachers in the body of Christ to admonish each other...There is a time for kindly telling others in the body how to act a christians...
To partake of this service is to remember His death till He comes...The bread and wine of communion represents the blood and body of our Lord Jesus who was sacrificed for us upon Calvery.
To partake of this most holy service is to understand that we have one who died for us as our "Passover Lamb" who is saving us from our sins, and that His life is an offering for our sinful life and that we have enterd into the New covenant with God
The doctrine of "Transtibulation" is not true..--frenchmon
But praise God I got past those stupid feelings. Now, thank you Jesus, I love it when people come to church - no matter what the reason. Because in their mind they are coming to Jesus. And that is a good beginning.
Personally I would never take it upon myself to ask someone if they thought they were worthy (or however you put it) to partake of the Lord's Supper. God forbid. The risk of offending that person would be worse than anything I can imagine.
I remember a very enjoyable communion during an agape feast at Weimar where I went to college. My partner and I walk around outside on a dusty dirt road until our feet were good and filthy. Then we washed each others feet. That was so meaningful for us.
God is so sweet and wonderful. I love Him with all my heart, and for that I thank Him deeply. I am encouraged to follow Him wherever He leads.
Chau!
The bible says:
"Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."
As a minister in the Adventist faith I don't expect you to agree with me publicly, but you may just be doing the stranger a favor by helping him to understand the importance of this sacrament, that he should examine himself first...and you are a watchmon in the kingdom of God as well...--frenchmon
Let's look at the setting this admonition is presented in.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
23 ¶ For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
They had a problem with some bringing in their own, some had and others did not.
From the sounds of it, it was being turned into a big feast, a party if you will.
They had lost the significance of what it was to be about.
Instead of remembering His death, they were eating and drinking in a different manner.
We have an example in Christ, He knew Judas heart, yet did not forbid him the same as He did for and to the others.
It is not our duty to question the heart of others, we need to make sure WE are partaking worthily of it.
Paul said in verse 28 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
Examine ourselves, don't worry about the other, we have no right to question the heart condition of another.
Jesus knew the heart condition of Judas, yet He let him participate.
He refused no one that came.
If He didn't refuse them, how dare we?
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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8
Had to correct some spelling. 
[This message has been edited by Gerry Buck (edited July 01, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by frenchmon:
"whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, *unworthily*, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. *For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body*. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."
I just wanted to emphasize that we are to examine ourselves and not to be worrying about what others are doing. If I am running around making sure that everyone else is ready to partake of the Lord's supper, I am not preparing nor examining myself. Some things we can not and are not to interfere with. We are called to rebuke our neighbours in a loving manner, as Christ would, but we are not called to judge their relationship. I am at a different place than you, or Lisa, or Daryl are at, I cannot judge where you stand with the Lord, any more than you can judge me. If I have an issue with a brother or sister, then I have the onus to approach them and bring it to their attention, hopefully to resolve it as set out in Matthew 18. As has been pointed out here, Jesus knew Judas' heart and still allowed him to partake of the Last Supper - only hours before the betrayal. We cannot look into a person's heart, that is the sole work of Jesus.
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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*
I would like to see a focus on the meaning of the communion service. Perhaps a separate thread could be started respecting our duty to rebuke each other as Christian brothers and sisters, if you wish to continue that discussion. Thank you.
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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*
Pastor, I’ve dialed God’s number, but no-one seems to be answering. Will I find
anything in church to help me?
Pastor, I’ve been in this church for 20 years and don’t feel saved. Is there any hope for
me?
Pastor, I think I’m lost but I’m just coming to church for the sake of the kids–maybe
they will find salvation here. Will they?
Church members have asked these questions and similar ones of me throughout my 12
years as a pastor. Usually I turn to 1 John 5:11-12 for the answer. The apostle John was
retirement age. He viewed all kinds of different movements, sects and religions trying
to press their ideas on the Christian Church. He responded with a verse that summarizes
Christianity: “And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life
is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does
not have life.” All of the competing religions and philosophies of the time were based
on knowledge, sacrifice, or a proper formula of words. Christianity stood alone in a
personal relationship with its God as its measure of Salvation. What John is saying is
that if you have that relationship with Christ , it’s life, heaven, Joy, peace etc. and
eternal life. If you don’t have it, eternal death. Simple.
All of this leads to one big question: “How do I know that I’m in a relationship with
Christ?”
The answer, again, is simple. Just like any other relationship, for one to have with
Christ is based on points of contact. In human relationships, point of contacts can be
letters, phone calls displays of affection. All of these are not love, but they show that
there is a relationship there. A young man and woman who are writing to each other
can, in a discouraging moment, lay out all letters they’ve sent in a huge pile. Then they
both can say, “Yes, something’s up. I’m not just imagining it all.” What then, are some
of the points of contact we have with Christ?
Any child who has been to church can tell you: Bible Study, prayer, fellowship with
other believers...These don’t save us, but the indicate that yes, there’s a relationship
there.
But the church through the ages has used a certain, specific, God-ordained point of
contact that should never be neglected in a Christian. That is the living, healing power
of the communion. “The Lord Jesus...( Read 1 Corinthians 11:23-26).
In the Lord’s supper, the bread becomes part of our bodies. The juice gets absorbed into
our bloodstream. The napkins on the communion table even serve a purpose. In NT
times, Romans wouldn’t wipe away the excess, they would take home the excess–to
sustain themselves and their own households for days to come.
Right after Jesus’ death Cleopas and the other disciple felt they had lost contact with
Jesus forever. The Stranger that started walking with them started giving them a study
of references in the Hebrew Scriptures to Christ. Finally when they entered a house and
this Stranger broke bread, they understood Who they were with. While walking on the
road they enjoyed His fellowship–they were still discouraged–but their hearts “burned
within them.” When He gave a Bible Study, they listened intently, but it didn’t reveal to
them who their companion was. It was only when the bread was broken in His
presence, that everything came together. Here, Jesus Christ, had entered their house and
they shared a meal together.
John, who writes about “having the Son” tells us in Rev. 3 “Behold, I stand at the door
and knock...we will share a meal together as friends.” Jesus wants into our church, into
our hearts, into our lives. He wants us to take Him home. Like the two going to
Emmaus, we’ve had bible study, we’ve had the fellowship of Christ in our lives–let us
now commune with Him...
[This message has been edited by Andrew Marttinen (edited July 03, 2001).]
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You have done many good things for me, Lord, just as you promised. I believe in your commands; now teach me good judgment and knowledge. Psalm 119:65-66 NLT
Did you know that the Jews/Rabbis understood that unleavened bread represented the Word of God? Do we partake often enough of the bread of life? Is once a quarter too much, not enough or just right for Communion service?
What does the bread and wine in the Communion service symbolize?
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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*
As for "the bread of life" in context of John Chapter 6...
Jesus said He was the bread of life that came down from heaven...Just as the Manna in the desert fed the people...He also feeds us...
Jesus is the true bread that sustains those who believe in Him...not seeking Him for the wonderful miracles He can do, but because we believe on His name...that He died to redeem us from darkness, that the riches of His mercy might be poured out on us who were once lost and alienated from the Father, but now are brought close to the Father through the riches of Christ blood...His blood was shed for us.
We are now satisfied in God for who and what Jesus is for us...We by faith, eat and drink the flesh and blood of Jesus...abiding in the truth of the vacarious substition...and doing the things He has commanded us to do.
We are so satisfied in Him, knowing He is satisfied with us as He bids us to continue and to go on to perfection...through His blood.
As we partake of communion, we understand and contemplate these truths, and we seek to be forgiven of all unrighteousness of life and character.
We understand these emblems of His blood and body to be as reminders of His death which was for us...His blood which was shed for us and His body which was broken for us till He come again...for us...
I myself think the Adventist Church should partake of the holy service once a month--frenchmon
I hope so because I'd like to see the church practice Communion with the cracker and juice less often (or maybe on Friday evening instead). The reason I like that idea is because too many times we have had visitors on Communion Sabbath and more often than not they felt like they got ripped off with such a short sermon. Yes, there are those visitors who were blessed too, but I think they would have been blessed even without the foot washing and the cracker and juice.
Does any get my point?
When we announce communion a week or two earlier, when that particular communion Sabbath arrives, there are either less people there or people who don't participate or at leaast not in the footwashing part.
Why is that?
__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace
Daryl
It may be that those who don't show up understand the importance of this sacrament...they feel as if they are not ready to partake in this service.
Some who don't take foot-washing may not want people to see their feet..---frenchmon
__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace
Daryl
I think we should strip them of their duties and make them be rebaptised!!!! No just kidding...
But I do think it is up to the pastor of the church to meet with those who do such and find out if things are ok...frenchmon
A tactful visitation by the pastor, either alone or with the local church elder, would be most appropriate.
__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace
Daryl
The Lord took bread, gave thanks, and said, "This is My body." This occured when they were eating. The bread was the ordinary unleavened bread that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks; then He took the cup, and said, "This is My blood." It was ordinary grape juice that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks."
We know that it is utterly useless to spend time arguing, what is true enough, that the Catholic priest has not the power to change the bread into the body of Christ; for the Scripture tells us that it is that already. "This is My body." There is no magic whatever about the matter. To be sure, the partaking of the body and the blood of Christ in the Lord's Supper is abolutely independent of any action of any priest or minister.
The apostle Paul said, "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is not the communion of the body of Christ? 1 Cor.10:16. Jesus said: " For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:55.
Therefore, said Jesus, "Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53
In the Desire of Ages, p.660 this passage of Scripture is quoted and then followed by this commentary: "This is true of our physical nature... Never one saint or sinner, eats his daily food, but he is nourished by the flesh and the blood of Christ."
In the book Education, we find the explanation: "It is the word of God, the impartation of His life, that gives life to the seed; and of that life, we, in eating the grain, become partakers. This, God desires us to discern. He desires that even in receiving our daily bread (not only at communion service) we may recognize His agency and may be brought into closer COMMUNION with Him." Education, p.108.
In other words, in the bread of the Lord's supper, we do not receive the body of the Lord any more than we do in an ordinary meal. "The light shining from the Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family board becomes as the table of the Lord and every meal a sacrament." D.A.660.
The Lord's Supper contains a lesson on health reform, in that it teaches us how to eat and drink. It sets a pattern for every meal.
Since according to 1 Cor.11:30, failure to discern the Lord's body is the cause why many are weak and sickly, and why many die, it follows that if the Lord's body were discerned, the opposite would be the case. If men discerned the Lord's body, they would find strength and health!
The knowledge of this truth sanctifies and glorifies eating and drinking. He who lives in constant recognition of it, eats and drinks to the glory of God. He eats and drinks by faith. He eats and drinks worthily. The man who does not day by day recognize the flesh and blood of Christ in His gifts, eats and drinks unworthily. 1 Cor.11:29. "Man that is in honor and understandeth not is like the beast that perish." Ps.49:20.
Therefore, in partaking of the provisions for our daily life--provided of course that the meal is of that which the Lord Himself gives us to eat--we are to remember that we live by the life of God and that the Lord's Supper is a public confession of the fact.
"It is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air, and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our stength. Is is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. All His gifts, except as perverted by sin, tend to life, to health and joy." Education, p.197,198.
But how much more are Christ's words true of our spiritual nature! This will be covered in the next post. God bless!
[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited November 28, 2001).]
"And how much more are Christ's words true of our spiritual nature. He declares, 'Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life.' It is by receiving the life for us poured out on Calvary's cross, that we can live the life of holiness. And this life we receive by receiving His word, by doing those things which He has commanded. Thus we become one with Him." D.A.660.
"The life of Christ that gives life to the world is in His word... Every soul is to receive life from God's word for himself." D.A.390.
The prophet Jeremiah said: "I found Your words and I ate them and they were the rejoicing of my heart." Jer.15:16.
"I will never forget Your commandments for by them You have given me life." Ps.119:50,93.
"The words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are life." John 6:63,68.
"In every command and in every promise of the word of God is the power, the very life of God, by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized." C.O.L.38.
We eat His flesh and drink His blood by feeding upon every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God for, "The Bible is the voice of God speaking to us, just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears. If we realized this, with what awe would we open God's word, and with what earnestness would we search its precepts." Testimomies, vol.6, 393.
"And I know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50.
The word of God is substance: "The creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in the word of God. That word imparts power, it begets life. Accepted by the will, received into the soul by faith, it brings with it the life of the Infinite One. And the life which is thus received is in like manner sustained, 'by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." Education, p.126.
May Christ reveal through us the creative energy of His word, a gentle, persuasive, but mighty influence to re-create others in the beauty of the Lord our God! M.B.129.
[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]