The Book of Job

I am back in the book of Job for my daily Bible studies. I have noticed a few things over the years which I will share along with the shares of others.. Today I was struck with the phrase, "the fire of God".

Where did this fire come from? Satan repeatedly tried to make it look as if God was the one doing the evil acts while God stating the truth as to who the destroyer really was and is.

So. what might this fire have been? Thanks in advance for your opinions and guesses as we seek to understand.

You must be referring to Job 1:16.

Job 1:16 KJV says,?"While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.?

I think the "fire of God" in this verse is not really the fire of God, but is actually the fire of the devil.

I like Daryl's post above. I've thought that it referred to lightning.

A couple of other things about Job: In my reading, it appears to me that the views of his three friends include a secular or rather mystic approach, a conservative Christian approach with his "Job, you are not trusting and obeying" and one an evangelical Christian approach with his "Job, you are trying too much on your own, you have to only believe." See what you think.

More so there is evidence that our friend Job was King Jobab of Edom found in Genesis 36:33-34. Edom, Ammon and Moab all represents countries who knew the truth, who started out following the truth, but eventually apostatized. King Jobab would have ruled when Edom was still faithful, and probably when the Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt.

We understand what is happening in the book of Job from the discussion between God and the satan at the start of the book. But in Job's day they would not necessary see in these passages the same things we see in them. However they saw the same message in what God said out of the whirlwind at the end of the book, especially tjeLeviathan in Job 41.

In our culture we picture the devil as this red creature with horns and pitchfork. In the ancient world, they pictured him as a 7 headed sea monster. Most cultures have a myth of a hero (often a god) who fights a dragon. Often the story has the hero initially loosing, dying, resurrecting and fighting again and this time win. These myths are based on the strongest one winning. In the book of Job we find this popular myth turned on it's head. In Job God tells us that if the issue was strength, that God would win without any problem. But that force does not work on the Leviathan.

A perfect paraphrase of the chapters where the Lord speaks from the whirlwind is found in Desire of Ages chapter "It is Finished" (This chapter is Mrs. White's finest work):

God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power.

It was God's purpose to place things on an eternal basis of security, and in the councils of heaven it was decided that time must be given for Satan to develop the principles which were the foundation of his system of government. He had claimed that these were superior to God's principles. Time was given for the working of Satan's principles, that they might be seen by the heavenly universe.

Given the context it would have to be from Satan and not God, just as you say, Daryl.

I posed this other places with some guesses being a meteor, or lightening and a couple of others.


Again I stress for all of us that we can only guess. I know I don't want to hardwire myself into anything, although I do admit to strongly believing some things. lol

Job's three friends claimed Job had to have sinned against God by not doing for his fellowman. Their lists show a big reason, in my view, as to why God called Job righteous. I find it reminiscent of the prophets and summed up in Matthew regarding the sheep and goats eligibility for entrance to heaven.

Job 22:5 Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite? 6 For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing. 7 Thou hast not given water to the weary to drink, and thou hast withholden bread from the hungry...9 Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.

Job 24:2 Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof. 3 They drive away the ass of the fatherless, they take the widow's ox for a pledge. 4 They turn the needy out of the way: the poor of the earth hide themselves together....7 They cause the naked to lodge without clothing, that they have no covering in the cold. 8 They are wet with the showers of the mountains, and embrace the rock for want of a shelter.

9 They pluck the fatherless from the breast, and take a pledge of the poor. 10 They cause him to go naked without clothing, and they take away the sheaf from the hungry; 11 Which make oil within their walls, and tread their winepresses, and suffer thirst.

12 Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out:...14 The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief. 15 The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face. 16 In the dark they dig through houses, which they had marked for themselves in the daytime: they know not the light.

Job 29:12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.

13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.

15 I was eyes to the blind, and feet was I to the lame.

16 I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.

17 And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth.

25 Did not I weep for him that was in trouble? was not my soul grieved for the poor?

Job 31:
1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid? 3 Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity? 4 Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?

5 If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit;

6 Let me be weighed in an even balance, that God may know mine integrity.

9 If mine heart have been deceived by a woman, or if I have laid wait at my neighbour's door; 10 Then let my wife grind unto another, and let others bow down upon her. 11 For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges. 12 For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

13 If I did despise the cause of my manservant or of my maidservant, when they contended with me; 14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him? 15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?

16 If I have withheld the poor from their desire, or have caused the eyes of the widow to fail;

17 Or have eaten my morsel myself alone, and the fatherless hath not eaten thereof;

18 (For from my youth he was brought up with me, as with a father, and I have guided her from my mother's womb;)

19 If I have seen any perish for want of clothing, or any poor without covering;

20 If his loins have not blessed me, and if he were not warmed with the fleece of my sheep;

21 If I have lifted up my hand against the fatherless, when I saw my help in the gate:

22 Then let mine arm fall from my shoulder blade, and mine arm be broken from the bone.

23 For destruction from God was a terror to me, and by reason of his highness I could not endure.

24 If I have made gold my hope, or have said to the fine gold, Thou art my confidence;

25 If I rejoiced because my wealth was great, and because mine hand had gotten much;

29 If I rejoiced at the destruction of him that hated me, or lifted up myself when evil found him:

30 Neither have I suffered my mouth to sin by wishing a curse to his soul.

32 The stranger did not lodge in the street: but I opened my doors to the traveller.

33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

34 Did I fear a great multitude, or did the contempt of families terrify me, that I kept silence, and went not out of the door?

38 If my land cry against me, or that the furrows likewise thereof complain;

39 If I have eaten the fruits thereof without money, or have caused the owners thereof to lose their life:

40 Let thistles grow instead of wheat, and cockle instead of barley. The words of Job are ended.

Job on death, the grave, and the new earth. Part 1
Job 3 13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,

14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;

15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:

16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.

17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.

18 There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.

19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.


Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.

10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.


Job 10:18 Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!

19 I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.

20 Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,

21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;

22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.

Thank you for sharing some thoughts on the book of Job. I think it needs far more discussion than it gets. Mrs. White tells us that "the book of Job will be read with the deepest interest by the people of God until the close of time." ST Feb. 19, 1880.14

I too have studied it on and off for a number of years. I go until I reach a place where it seems I can go no further. It's nice to see that other people are interested.

I have compared the "fire of God that fell from heaven" to Revelation 13:13, where it tells us of another fire that came down from heaven: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

I think they are both speaking to the same thing. Mrs. White also tells us that "The prophets of God spoke less for their own time than for the ages to come, and especially for the generation that would live amid the last scenes of this earth?s history." ST Jan. 13,1898.8

In my personal studies I see things in the context of Bible types. In other words, I view the entire book of Job as a type of Jacob?s Time of Trouble. If that is true, then it gives us a picture of what God?s people will pass through as they wrestle with Christ for the final victory over the world.

Having said that, I see the fire from God in Job as a type of the false outpouring of the Holy Spirit. As the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in the form of fire in the genuine outpouring of the Spirit, the false outpouring is also likened to fire. The key for me was the fact that it burned up the sheep. What do sheep represent in the Bible? Us! Sheep represent people who profess to be Christians. This false outpouring will burn up the "sheep" who are unable to discern the true from the counterfeit, both inside and outside of Adventism.

This burning up of the sheep was the second of four specific judgments.

Anyway, looking forward to following the discussion. Hopefully there is room for different views.

Hi TruthnTypes, Thank you for contributing! I'm continuing Job's understanding of the death from birth till the second coming. Interesting that he covered it.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

Job 17:13 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.

14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.

16 They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.



Job 21:23 One dieth in his full strength, being wholly at ease and quiet. 24 His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow.
25 And another dieth in the bitterness of his soul, and never eateth with pleasure.
26 They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them.

29 Have ye not asked them that go by the way? and do ye not know their tokens, 30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.

33 The clods of the valley shall be sweet unto him, and every man shall draw after him, as there are innumerable before him.

Job 24: 19 Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those which have sinned.

20 The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree.

Job 30:23 For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.

Could you recheck that source, please? I'm not finding it. That source referred to Moses.

Here is the actual quote with references:

The long years amid desert solitudes were not lost. Not only was Moses gaining a preparation for the great work before him, but during this time, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he wrote the book of Genesis and also the book of Job, which would be read with the deepest interest by the people of God until the close of time. (ST Feb. 19, 1880). {3BC 1140.3}

It was actually Moses who also wrote the book of Job according to the above quote.

Thanks Daryl.

I can see how Genesis and Job would be companion books. We can definitely get a good idea of what God intends for us to do and not do when it comes to primitive godliness, or the requirements for heaven as stated in Matthew's sheep and goats.


We can also see that it is perfectly fine to feel what we feel and discuss it with God!

How interesting that God was upset with Job's friends sending them to Job with their sacrifices.


I also saw that Job treated his daughters, and I imagine his wife, as equals with the sons following suit.

Daryl:

Thank you for posting that quote in its entirety. My take on that on that quotation, is that Moses wrote both Genesis and Job, but it is the book of Job in particular that would be read with the deepest interest by the people of God.

Question: Why did my apostrophe's and quotation marks show up as question marks in my original quote? I wrote my post on a word doc and copy/pasted it into the quick reply box here. Should I do that differently? Or use the full editor?

Also, when I saw what had happened, I posted a clarification, but it would not allow me to post--Saying I had already posted.

Thanks

Job on death from the womb.


When I read these I am reminded of Solomon under inspiration


God said
This one, to me, makes a similar point.

The problem is with the forum software, which I corrected in the post.

That's what I always thought. Caused by satan, of course.

Yes,
Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause."

It's important to note, that God takes the credit, or blame, even though it's obvious from the text that God said, "Behold, all that he has is in your power". So can one see why it's important to be very careful of absolute conclusions about what God does when people read the Bible and see "fire from God", and especially in the places where it looks as if God takes the blame?

What is your understanding that Job's friends said wrong about God?

Why did it make God so angry?

Job:42:7
And it was so...the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Has anyone thought about it or wondered?

They blamed Job for his problems. More to the point, that God rewards good, and punishes bad.

A person gave this example of several from what Eliphaz said in Job 4: