Samuel Alito

Posted By: John H.

Samuel Alito - 11/01/05 03:59 AM

The man President Bush nominated today to be an Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court is a "Roman Catholic of Italian descent."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4392544.stm

If he's confirmed, this will give the Roman Catholics a 5-person majority on the Supreme Court. John Roberts (Chief Justice), Anthony Kennedy, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas are Catholics already serving on the Court.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_sc.html
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/01/05 06:56 PM

Why is that fact significant? Would you be as concerned if there were five Adventists on the Court?

=======

Edited out unnecessary quote of the previous post. - Daryl [Smile]

[ November 03, 2005, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]
Posted By: John H.

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/02/05 02:10 AM

I must conclude that you're never read Great Controversy, Darius, and aren't aware of the Adventist understanding of latter-day events.
Posted By: John H.

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/02/05 02:13 AM

NARLA's take on the Alito nomination:
quote:
Subject: Nomination of Judge Alito
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:18:55 -0500 (EST)
From: North American Religious Liberty Association


Dear Friends of Freedom:

As all of you know, Judge Alito has been nominated to fill the place of Justice Sandra Day O’Connor. We are currently examining his record in regard to religious liberty. I am writing to you to give you our initial review.

At the outset, it is worth noting that it is the policy of the North American Religious Liberty Association to oppose any religious tests for public office. This is for three reasons. First, there is no indication the religious affiliation of an American judge determines whether she/he is willing to protect religious freedom. Second, imposing a religious test for office is, in itself, a violation of religious freedom. Third, the teachings of Christ require that we don’t treat others in a way we ourselves would find objectionable.

Rather than adhering to a faulted religious test to determine who is suitable for the Supreme Court, we examine the record of the individual. The analysis we have done to date indicates that as a Judge Alito has a good record of upholding the free exercise of religion and his decisions on separation of church and state are unremarkable.

In FOP Newark Lodge No. 12 v. City of Newark, a 1999 case, Judge Alito drafted the majority opinion finding a the New Jersey Police Department was required to accommodate Muslims who wear beards. The case was carefully written to provide the Muslims in question the best protection available under the First Amendment. He followed a similar tact in a case involving a Native American who brought a religious liberty case. In both these cases, the care he took to protect religious minorities is commendable. In addition, Judge Alito's disposition towards Saturday Sabbath accommodation in the workplace is more favorable than we routinely receive in many courts in the land. Further, his decisions on separation of church and state (Establishment Clause), appear unremarkable and follow Supreme Court precedent.

Our analysis will mature as more documents become available. Should we locate any indication of hostility to the rights of religious minorities we will inform you. This is a very key moment in the history of the Supreme Court. There is a lot riding on this nomination. Please keep the process in your prayers as we contemplate the future of our nation. If you haven’t already, I want to invite you to become a member of the North American Religious Liberty Association and join us as we stand strong for the God given right to freedom of conscience. You can join at www.religiousliberty.info or by calling (301)680-6683.

Sincerely,

James Standish

Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/02/05 04:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by John H.:
I must conclude that you're never read Great Controversy, Darius, and aren't aware of the Adventist understanding of latter-day events.

And if you had stayed a little longer in "The Booth of Conclusions" you would have learned that I also think for myself. As soon as you have installed this module please answer the questions I asked, if you are so inclined.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 01:14 AM

Darius you may think for yourself but that does not take away the facts as we know them concerning prophesy and the papacy.

You ask if we would be concerned if there were 5 SDA's on the court. Well there are not 5 SDA's on the court and I doubt very much that there ever will be:) However any SDA should sit up and take notice when the Catholic church has so much power in the US. While we should never run around saying that the sky is falling I do think it is safe to say that the sky is getting weaker. Things are falling into place to make it very easy for Gods people to be persecuted.

Redfog
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 01:54 AM

Redfog, I have listened to lots of rhetoric and know for a fact that the only prophecy any man is able to interpret is prophecy that has already come to pass. Anyone is free to say whatever he wants about the future. I don't have to believe him.

If you want to think that 5 Catholics on the court means that the Catholic church controls the judiciary then I won't argue that point with you either.
Posted By: Tom

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 01:56 AM

There's been too much concern on current events since the beginning of Adventism. The Spirit of Prophecy warned about this in her day. When World War 2 happened, when Israel was established, when Kennedy was elected, whenever we have a new pope, any of these events, and many others, cause some to speculate that the time is near because of this or that event.

Christ could have come some 150 years ago, according to the Spirit of Prophecy. There is nothing happening now, that could not have happened then, it terms of some sort of pre-requisite for Christ's coming.

The issues involved in Christ's coming are spiritual. When Christ's character is prefectly reproduced in His people, then He will come and claim them as His own.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 04:28 AM

Darius what you are saying is that you don't believe in prophesy? Or should we pick and choose? Can we believe in the 2nd Advent?

Now if you don't believe in Biblical prophesy or Mrs White then I can understand why there would be no concern about the courts having a Catholic majority.

Maybe nothing will come of this however I really hope that it will. I'm ready for the rapture, sooner the better.

Redfog
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 04:07 PM

Things get really messed up when we come to conclusions that are not clearly indicated by what somebody says. I spoke about interpretation of prophecy. I never intimated that I do not believe in prophecy. Why did you have to muddy the waters with that? It is a sign of weakness when we need to introduce concepts that will cause readers to automatically react against the ones we are opposed to in a discussion.

You need to study the Bible a bit better. You will realize that you are completely mistaken on the requirements for the second coming.

=======

Edited out unnecessary quote of previous post. - Daryl [Smile]

[ November 03, 2005, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 05:13 PM

Well I guess you're the one with the PhD behind your name and I'm just an uneducated bee keeper.

So do you think we as a church have it wrong in our interpretation of the prophecies concerning last day events? Do you not see any danger in the papacy having church members in high positions of the US government?

Redfog, BK, BP, GH
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 05:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
Well I guess you're the one with the PhD behind your name and I'm just an uneducated bee keeper.

There you go. Unable to engage in intelligent discourse without getting down and dirty. What does one's education have to do with anything? Get that chip off your shoulder. If you want some alphabetical fragments go and pay for some.
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 05:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
Do you not see any danger in the papacy having church members in high positions of the US government?

Redfog, BK, BP, GH

Do you see any danger with having Adventist members in high positions in the US government?
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 05:50 PM

Darius, sorry I didn't put a smiley in there. I'm just trying to add some humor to the discussion. I've always told my highly educated wife that "education is for those that need it", [Smile]

No I do not see any danger if there were Adventist in high positions. The reason being is that I've never seen anything in prophesy to warn of that danger. With our love of religious liberty I don't think our members would do anything to restrict that freedom.

Again I ask (somewhat differently), do you believe that our church, and Mrs. White has end day events wrong in regard to the papacy in last day events?

I personally believe that in the last few years we've been seeing prophesy being fulfilled before our very eyes, though it seems as a church we're being rather blind to it.

Redfog
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/03/05 06:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
No I do not see any danger if there were Adventist in high positions. The reason being is that I've never seen anything in prophesy to warn of that danger. With our love of religious liberty I don't think our members would do anything to restrict that freedom.

Again I ask (somewhat differently), do you believe that our church, and Mrs. White has end day events wrong in regard to the papacy in last day events?

I personally believe that in the last few years we've been seeing prophesy being fulfilled before our very eyes, though it seems as a church we're being rather blind to it.

Redfog

I only say people are correct on prophecy when the prophecy has come to pass. We know what happened to Jonah. He misinterpreted his own prophecy. You can take from that what you will.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 03:17 AM

Well it would seem that if a person only believes that the correct interpretation of prophesy can be ascertained after the event then the prophesy it's self is useless. If a person will only believe in the prophesy of the 2nd Advent when it has come to pass then that person can only be looking back on the event from the wrong side of New Jerusalem. Not a place I'd want to be. Prophesy is there for us to learn of future events, however if we cannot believe in the correct interpretation of prophesy then there might as well be no prophesy. If a person cannot believe in prophesy then the whole concept of Salvation becomes worthless to that person.

Redfog
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 04:00 AM

AP.WASHINGTON- "The Supreme Court's middle ground is disappearing. If Samuel Alito is confirmed, he could almost immediately begin shifting the court onto more conservative footing as it considers contentious social issues like abortion, religion and capital punishment."

This was the beginning of a AP report on Yahoo.

Redfog
Posted By: Charlene Van Hook

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 05:08 AM

what does this scripture mean????

Amo 3:7
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."


- Maranatha--- Coming Events Clearly Revealed
-PG- 160
" The Lord God does nothing without giving to his servants the prophets knowledge of his plans." Amos 3:7, N.E.B.

"The events connected with the close of probation and the work of preparation for the time of trouble, are clearly presented. But multitudes have no more understanding of these
important truths than if they had never been revealed. Satan watches to catch away every impression that would make them wise unto salvation, and the time of trouble will find them
unready."
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 05:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
Well it would seem that if a person only believes that the correct interpretation of prophesy can be ascertained after the event then the prophesy it's self is useless. If a person will only believe in the prophesy of the 2nd Advent when it has come to pass then that person can only be looking back on the event from the wrong side of New Jerusalem. Not a place I'd want to be. Prophesy is there for us to learn of future events, however if we cannot believe in the correct interpretation of prophesy then there might as well be no prophesy. If a person cannot believe in prophesy then the whole concept of Salvation becomes worthless to that person.

Redfog

The Second Coming is not a prophecy; it is a promise. The purpose of prophecy is so that the children of God would not become discouraged when conditions begin to deteriorate. Try to stay away from over-reaching conclusions.
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 05:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
AP.WASHINGTON- "The Supreme Court's middle ground is disappearing. If Samuel Alito is confirmed, he could almost immediately begin shifting the court onto more conservative footing as it considers contentious social issues like abortion, religion and capital punishment."

This was the beginning of a AP report on Yahoo.

Redfog

What does that have to do with your thesis. Actually, it should be wonderful to your ears since you belong to a conservative denomination.
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 05:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Charlene Van Hook:
what does this scripture mean????

Amo 3:7
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

It tells me that more than one prophet is involved. Do you have any ideas?
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 06:02 PM

Darius the subject of this thread is Alito, why else would I post it?

I belong to a conservative church but it is not conservative in the way other churches are. We believe in the separation of church and state where as other denominations are moving towards a union of the two institutions. It should always raise concerns when a justice wants to move the two towards each other. Of course I believe that way because I agree with the SDA's interpretation of prophesy where as you only believe in such things after the fact. After the fact is too late.

Redfog
Posted By: Charlene Van Hook

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 06:04 PM

Yes,

Read ALL of Matt 24:
Here is a prophecy of much importance, there is a duel application, reaching from historical past to Present Truth.

Also John the [REVEALOR] deals with end time issues.

All major and minor prophets in the Bible were written more for last days then their present time.

And our modern day prophet Ellen White that has written for our present time -----all inspiration is for our admonition:

The Signs of the Times---- 01-13-98
" The prophets of God spoke less for their own time than for the ages to come, and especially for the generation that would live amid the last scenes of this earth's history. "Not unto themselves but unto us they did minister the things which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the Gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into." "All these things happened unto them for
ensamples, and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." The prophets and apostles meet and unite their witness, testifying of the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. The wonderful events in the history of the children of Israel are not to be lost sight of or ignored because of the lapse of time. They are jewels of
truth that have been placed in false settings. Christ came to redeem them from error, and to reset them in the framework of truth, that they might shine in their native purity and attractive loveliness. By Him they have been
made to give forth a brighter and more powerful luster than ever before."
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/04/05 10:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
Darius the subject of this thread is Alito, why else would I post it?

I belong to a conservative church but it is not conservative in the way other churches are. We believe in the separation of church and state where as other denominations are moving towards a union of the two institutions. It should always raise concerns when a justice wants to move the two towards each other. Of course I believe that way because I agree with the SDA's interpretation of prophesy where as you only believe in such things after the fact. After the fact is too late.

Redfog

YOu are not smart enough to know what I think. Stick with what I actually post; all of it. Not cull out what negates your conclusions.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/05/05 12:30 AM

I sense a tenseness in some of the posts here.

Let us be like Jesus Christ by being kind and loving in our posts.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/05/05 01:57 AM

Darius, I'm not sure where I was trying to ascertain what you think, please show me. If I offended you please accept my apologies. However it seems like many of your posts are somewhat combative in nature and I don't understand why. We're just trying to discuss something not argue over it.

To me there is little difference between a promise and prophesy. The 2nd Advent is both prophesied and it's a promise. The first coming was the same. End time events are promised us so that we will know the end is near but they are also prophesied. There are certain prophesies that I believe point to the papacy and the United States playing a large role in the end therefore I think it would be well to take notice of the changing political/religious landscape in the US. For the papacy to take a large role in the persecution of God's people they will need to have power and there is not much higher power, especially in regards to laws, than the US supreme court. Now if a person does not believe in the prophesies as the SDA church understands them then the nomination of Judge Alito would not mean anything from a religious standpoint.

Redfog

[ November 04, 2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Redfog ]
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/05/05 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
To me there is little difference between a promise and prophesy. The 2nd Advent is both prophesied and it's a promise. The first coming was the same. End time events are promised us so that we will know the end is near but they are also prophesied. There are certain prophesies that I believe point to the papacy and the United States playing a large role in the end therefore I think it would be well to take notice of the changing political/religious landscape in the US. For the papacy to take a large role in the persecution of God's people they will need to have power and there is not much higher power, especially in regards to laws, than the US supreme court. Now if a person does not believe in the prophesies as the SDA church understands them then the nomination of Judge Alito would not mean anything from a religious standpoint.

Redfog

That was the same argument when JFK became the first Catholic in the White House. It backfired then. When symbolism is involved the track record is very spotty. It is that symbolism that makes the difference between a promise and a prophecy.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/06/05 02:54 AM

One difference between JFK's presidency and judge Alito is that a judge is appointed for life, a president at the most 8 years. I'm not making any predictions on this, I'm just saying we need to make note of it and be on guard. At some point in time, if you believe in the prophesies of the Bible as the SDA church understands them, the papacy and the US government will rise up and persecute Gods chosen people. It would seem logical that the more people the Catholic church has in positions of power the more likely that event will occur. Looking back in history is not a good indication of what the future holds. Because I believe that our church and Mrs. White have correctly interpreted prophesy, (either that or they are a fraud), I will continue to be on guard. And in the last few years anyone can see prophesy being fulfilled as the whole world gazes in wonder at the papacy, and the Catholic church has gained more and more power and prestige. More and more the US government has joined hands with the religious community, including the Catholic church. I don't think we as a church have fully comprehended how much things are changing. Indeed I've caught myself admiring John Paul and the work he did, I also watched with wonder at his funeral but was taken aback by seeing two former and one sitting president kneeling before his deceased body.

Redfog
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/06/05 03:51 AM

He was the leader of a country. Things may be better if we spent more time putting our house in order instead of keeping our eyes on a man in Vatican City.

=======

Removed quote of previous post. - Daryl [Smile]

[ November 06, 2005, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/06/05 05:11 AM

Darius what do you mean by the words "our house"? Is this a reference to the individual? If so I could not agree with you more. The man we need to keep our eyes on is the Man from Galilee. However we must never ignore or disregard Biblical prophesy, to do so is dereliction of the duty we have to ourselves and our fellow man.

Redfog
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 11/07/05 01:07 AM

By 'our house' I meant our denominational affairs.

=======

Removed quote of previous post. - Daryl [Smile]

[ November 06, 2005, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]
Posted By: John H.

Re: Samuel Alito - 01/31/06 08:32 PM

It's official: we now have a Catholic majority on the U.S. Supreme Court.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/31/AR2006013100354.html
Posted By: rhammen

Re: Samuel Alito - 02/04/06 04:25 AM

I sense a tenseness in Darius title and his quotation.

Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
"No weapon formed against me shall prosper."

He seems to trust a lot in that mighty title of his. I bet you there are a lot of other people on this SDA Family Fellowship forums with all kinds of titles, but without the need of backing there name up with it.

Let's face the facts, some people DO despise prophecies today when Paul tells "despise not prophecies." Things are shaping up as predicted clearly in the book the Great Controversy.

Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
"No weapon formed against me shall prosper."
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 02/04/06 09:37 PM

rhammen, jealousy comes in different guises. Please don't succumb to it. Don't be flustered by alphabetical fragments. Keep your eyes where they belong.
Posted By: John H.

Re: Samuel Alito - 02/04/06 11:48 PM

quote:
...jealousy comes in different guises.
So does egotism and overinflated self-esteem. Not the least of which can be seen in those who trumpet their personal accomplishments in a public arena.
Posted By: rhammen

Re: Samuel Alito - 02/05/06 12:31 AM

Jealous, I am not. If I were, I'd admit it.
I think it's great that you have your PhD, but the picture I have of you from a lot of your posts is someting I would never be envious of.

What one can find on this forum are sincere SDAs expressing their beliefs in what we have generally believed. Why don't you just come out and say, "I don't believe in our interpretation of prophecy and Ellen White was wrong."

Maybe I'm taking your quote wrong.
"No weapon formed against me shall prosper."
Are you talking about spirtual warfare or "spirtual" debate?

Sometimes Festus' words are true, "much learning doth make" one "mad." Acts 26:24.

Give us a thus saith the Lord, and it will suffice us.

The Wisest of all until Jesus, Solomon, considers a lot of the talk that goes on "the sacrifice of fools." Ecc. 5:1.

Give us an orthodox message and we'll give you more letters to go with your title.

If you talk more doubt than faith, then you are just showing us that Paul's words are true.

"Not many wise men after the flesh . . . are called" 1 Cor 1:26

R
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Samuel Alito - 02/06/06 01:34 AM

[Caution] Please focus on the topic, not on a person's personal signature or title. [Caution]
Posted By: Darius

Re: Samuel Alito - 02/06/06 04:09 PM

I like the way those who find it difficult to deal with my points of view always resort to personal attacks in the hope that such an approach will aid their cause. I find it hilarious that one would object to my use of passage of Scripture in my signature. Heaven help us.
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