What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"?

Posted By: Alchemy

What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 12/07/15 06:27 AM

What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"?

When does the 144,000 show up on the scene?

Who are they?

Is the number literal?

What part do they play in last day events?


In my own studies, I put a lot of emphasis on the chapter entitled "The Time of Trouble" in The Great Controversy.

What do you believe?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 12/29/15 10:42 PM

Some believe it is a literal number, while others believe it is a symbolical number.

I personally lean towards it being a literal number.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 12/30/15 09:58 AM

I believe the 144,000 is a literal number as well. I get that from the wording in Early Writings page 14; "The living saints, 144,000 in number".

I also believe they don't really show up on the scene, as the 144,000 anyway, until after the close of probation.

I am still trying to nail down some events as soon after the close of probation as possible. Just in case I'm there.

And you too Daryl.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 12/30/15 11:42 PM

Attached is an End Time Chart that I saw in Facebook.




Description: End Time Chart
Attached File
End Time Chart.jpg  (76 downloads)
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/05/16 06:53 AM

If I may ask a question; What do we as Seventh-day Adventists expect in these last days before the close of probation? I do need help with this.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/05/16 09:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Daryl
Attached is an End Time Chart that I saw in Facebook.



Well, it's impossible for Satan to personate Christ before the close of probation. Satan, the dragon, shows up on the earth during the sixth plague. Period.

But, most of this chart does look good at this time. There is just so much information to assimilate that some of my understanding may be changing.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/05/16 11:53 AM

For the sake of clarity;

I do not believe that Satan's personation of Christ starts before the close of probation and continues through the Time of Trouble. But, I do believe the light from the Angel in Revelation 18:1-5 does start before the close of probation and continues through the Time of Trouble.

The Angel from Revelation 18:1-5 warns people to come out of Babylon so they receive not of her plagues. But, that light remains through the plagues to help God's people see through all the deceptions of Satan during that time.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/08/16 06:36 AM

Again for the sake of clarity;

Satan is going to counterfeit anything and everything he is allowed to counterfeit. Including the close of probation. Only, I believe Satan has his own version of the close of probation altogether.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/14/16 03:24 AM

Satan probably knows the Scriptures better than we do, therefore, He very well may know when probation closes, but then again he may not know.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/14/16 05:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Daryl
Satan probably knows the Scriptures better than we do, therefore, He very well may know when probation closes, but then again he may not know.


Even though we won't know the exact time of the final close of probation, I personally believe we will be able to figure it out eventually, and so will Satan. But, his purpose is to destroy God's people, not convert them.
Posted By: dedication

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/19/16 11:52 PM

The 144,000 are those who are not deceived in the last days.
Many others who once "drank deeply" of truth, but then "muddied the waters" by accepting the counterfeit will end up lost! What a terrible thing to happen.

Quote:
The 144,000 triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God. Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, "Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting." I asked who this company were. The angel said, "These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up." I heard them cry with a loud voice, "We have believed in Thy coming, and taught it with energy." And while they were speaking, their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing, and then they would wail aloud. I saw that they had drunk of the deep waters, and fouled the residue with their feet--trodden the Sabbath underfoot-- and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting. {EW 36.2}



May we be among those who are anchored firmly in Christ to withstand the deceptions.
Amen.
Posted By: dedication

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 01/20/16 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Alchemy
What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"?

When does the 144,000 show up on the scene?

Who are they?

Is the number literal?

What part do they play in last day events?

What do you believe?


When do they "show up"?
Or rather when is their number made up?

Probably during the great testing time before probation closes during the great shaking.
Revelation 14 shows us the 144,000 follow the Lamb where ever He leads and have no "guile" or deception.

From MR14 pages 90-94
Quote:
"A period is coming when everyone will take sides between the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, which the Lord has sanctified and blessed, and the spurious sabbath instituted by the man of sin. ...
This persecuting power will compel the worship of the beast by insisting on the observance of the sabbath he has instituted. Thus he blasphemes God, "sitting in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" [2 Thessalonians 2:4]....
they would rein up the faithful and loyal subjects of the kingdom of God, depriving them of their liberty of conscience, bringing them before magistrates and judges, and pronouncing sentence against them, delivering them into prison, putting them into the chain gang and even condemning them to death...
One of the marked features in the representation of the 144,000 is that in their mouth was found no guile....
Men who conceal their convictions of duty because they are afraid of suffering persecution are not following the true, but the false, shepherd. To maintain principle at all hazard is the highest path one can travel, because by doing this we follow Jesus....


She goes on to say that
if people are not voicing the third angel's message now, they will have no conscientious scruples to resist Sunday observance.

That is a hard hitting statement, as it seems to be the human nature of many of us to "be quiet" when we are with other people who don't know or accept the three angels message. We don't want to have them think we are "strange" or something.

Somehow the full conviction that this is an eternal life or death message doesn't seem to really alarm us as we intermingle with people.

From this I conclude that the 144,000 share the 3rd angels message with conviction, and will continue to do so in spite of persecution and suffering. They will not waver though everything in this world turns against them. They will "triumph over the beast and his image" even though for awhile it will seem this beast and image is winning.

They will, in a sense be that 4th angel (messengers) of Rev. 18:1-4 as their witness is heralded all over the world proclaiming that religious/political system is a counterfeit, calling people to choose Christ and the path of dedicated obedience to Him, which is the hope for mankind. By their lives they will show that they would rather die than bow before that counterfeit worship system.

And they will have a deep concern for others, as well as a deep love for the Lamb, Jesus Christ, their Lord and Savior.






Quote:
Why were they [the 144,000] so specially singled out? Because they had to stand with a wonderful truth right before the whole world, and receive their opposition, and while receiving this opposition they were to remember that they were sons and daughters of God, that they must have Christ formed within them the hope of glory. They were ever keeping in view the great and blessed hope that is before them. What is it? It is an eternal weight of glory. Nothing could surpass it. {1SAT 72.3}



As to "literal" or "symbolic"
All I know is that the number of people who will stand through the great trial, will be relatively small, yet we are not to worry about the number itself, our focus is to follow the LAMB -- we are to strive with all the help that God gives us to be among that number.
Posted By: James Peterson

Re: What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"? - 02/15/16 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Alchemy
What part does the 144,000 play in the "Time of Trouble"?

When does the 144,000 show up on the scene?

Who are they?

Is the number literal?

What part do they play in last day events?


In my own studies, I put a lot of emphasis on the chapter entitled "The Time of Trouble" in The Great Controversy.

What do you believe?

The 144,000 are of Israel. The Bible UNEQUIVOCALLY says so. And they have already died around the time of the terrible events surrounding 70 AD. Rev. 14:13, speaking of them, says, "Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' 'Yes,' says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.'"

Since then, we have been living in the age of the Gentiles.

///
© 2024 Maritime 2nd Advent Christian Believers OnLine Forums Consisting Mainly of Both Members & Friends of the SDA (Seventh-day Adventist) Church