What Is The Truth About "The Investigative Judgment"?

As far as I know, this is unique to the SDA Church, therefore, I thought it would be good to discuss this here.

What then is the truth about "The Investigative Judgment"?

What does the Bible, the writings of EGW, and the writings of any of our theologians have to say about this teaching?

For those who may not know, perhaps we should first determine what "The Investigative Judgment" is, therefore, what is "The Investigative Judgment"?

I love the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment!!! I have a fairly long essay on it that I've used on other forum (and developed over the years) that I keep challanging the critics to answer, but for some reason they tend to be quite. The seem to only like their strawmen to put up and knock down.

As for me, in studying what Mrs. White claims to be the most inportant in her writings, the issues of the Great Controversy, which leads into what (or rather Who) Hell fire actually is, finds the consept of the Investigative Judgment to be requesit. They all go together.

I'll post my essay in sections, but may I recommend that if you (please check with your church libarary, or even your own city libarary with interlibarary loan) get the book "The Sanctuary and the Atonement" by the Biblical Research Committee (get the original yellow covered one from 1981, NOT the blue re-issue) You will find three chapters, "The Mighty opposits: The Atonement in the Writings of Ellen G. White" parts 1 and 2 and "We Must All Appear: The Investigative Judgment in the writings of Ellen G. White" These chapters are outstanding in our study of this topic.

Kevin, would you be willing to post your study on the Forum Study Library? And then we could discuss it here in more detail. Here's the link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=73&DaysPrune=1000&submit=Go

OK, I'll try to get to it when I get a break. But please, let me emphesise that my essay is supplementary material, and that we still need to look at what others wrote, expecially those three chapters in Sanctuary and the Atonement by the Biblical Research committee.


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It's posted, I hope you find it useful!

[ November 28, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Kevin H ]

I did get that impression about this section, but thank you Daryl for making sure.

I've posted my essay on the investigative judgment, please read it and return here with any comments. I hope it helps.

Kevin, I read your rather long, and sometimes rambling post, and here is my initial response to it. BTW, thank you for taking the time to study this doctrine.

“It is finished” meant that Jesus had just drained the last drop in the cup of trembling. I’m not so sure it meant anything else, or that it implied one or more cycles had just been completed.

Citing other possible fulfillments of Daniel 1-8, based on various cycles, overlooks God’s foreknowledge. Suggesting that these prophecies were flexible enough to accommodate earlier fulfillments implies God used a shotgun approach, that He wasn’t sure when things would actually happen. The idea that the 2300 day prophecy could have been fulfilled earlier undermines the fulfillment of the prophecy itself.

Whether or not Daniel should be studied in the context of Medo-Persia or Antiochus, or some other era, is mostly a waste of time, since we already know the truth about Daniel 9-12. What could have been, or what should have been, is all well and fine, but the fact remains, a fact that we cannot overlook, Jesus fulfilled parts of chapter 9 between 27-31 AD. The dates we use for the prophecies of Daniel were confirmed and verified by God through the SOP. We have no legitimate reason to doubt them.

The idea that God is angry and vengeful and is looking for excuses to kill us and to keep us out of heaven is a lie that hasn’t been believed by SDAs in years, if ever. I know I’ve never felt that way about God, and I’ve never met anyone who has or does. To build a doctrine to overcome this idea seems unnecessary to me, and somewhat contrived. The real motive seems to serve a convenient purpose, namely, to say sin and sinners destroy themselves in a lake of fire.

During judgment, God investigates our good and bad thoughts, words and deeds, and then a decree is declared based on whether or not our characters withstood the test and scrutiny of God. It was a time of soul affliction. Indeed, it was a fearful time. “The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” Heb 10:30, 31. In Christ, however, we may come boldly before the throne of God, knowing our heavenly Father will in no wise turn away those who are contrite and converted.

Hebrews
4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Leviticus
16:29 And [this] shall be a statute for ever unto you: [that] in the seventh month, on the tenth [day] of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, [whether it be] one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
23:29 For whatsoever soul [it be] that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
23:30 And whatsoever soul [it be] that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

Kevin, when I compare what you wrote about the investigative judgment and what Sister White wrote about it, I have two entirely different reactions. After reading what you wrote, I still don’t know what you believe about the investigative judgment. Can you spell it out in one or two short paragraphs?

Hi Mike:

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It is finished” meant that Jesus had just drained the last drop in the cup of trembling. I’m not so sure it meant anything else, or that it implied one or more cycles had just been completed.
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This is dealing with how the critics point to the phrase "It is Finished" to mean that nothing else can happen. I was pointing out that they are using Greek thinking, and that we need to remember the cultural contexts. That phrase would mean one thing if said in say Athans, but can mean something else when said in Jerusalem. Therefore the critics can not force it to mean "That's all folks"

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Citing other possible fulfillments of Daniel 1-8, based on various cycles, overlooks God’s foreknowledge...
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NO IT DOESN'T!!!!!

Have you ever read the chapters "Distroyed for lack of knowlege" in Prophets and Kings, and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" in the SDA Bible Commentary? Their what could have happened does not overlook God's foreknowlege.

In my Bible classes at Atlantic Union College the professors were very strict about a three step approach to scripture:

1. What did it mean to the original audience (studing language, culture etc.) including appling the principles of "Distroyed for lack of Knowlege" on the microapplication to the text. How was God offering THEM the chance to either be the last generation, or prepare for the next generation to be the last generation.

2. Since God indeed has foreknowlege, God sees how and when things will actually be worked out, so God gives current events to the generations who he gives the opputunity to but who he knows will not fulfill it, where we will find to same principles and similar events, and in cycles to what the ACTUAL Final generation and the FINAL cycle. As we see what could have happened, we can properly apply the text and prophecys to our day.

(The third way is just using the language for drawing spiritual lessons but not based on the exegesis, for example when Mrs. White took David's prayer of Mt. Gilboa and applys it to the Adventist teaching of the Law while neglecting the righteousness of Christ.)

Anyway, for God to give the earlier cycles the lessons that we will need to know later, shows a oneness of the opposits of God's foreknowlege and Freedom of Choice. We don't have to choose one or the other.


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The idea that God is angry and vengeful and is looking for excuses to kill us and to keep us out of heaven is a lie that hasn’t been believed by SDAs in years
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I'm not catching where I'm suppose to be saying that. I used some exageration in the idea of God doing two different acts at the end, but I am afraid that you are reading in much more than I meant.

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After reading what you wrote, I still don’t know what you believe about the investigative judgment. Can you spell it out in one or two short paragraphs?
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1. Although we are the only church that "teaches" a doctrine called "The Investigative Judgment" we find that other respectable scholars from a wide range of study all believe and teach aspects that if we were to make a composit of THEIR beliefs, we would indeed have our Investigative Judgment. So if we are to give up the doctrine of the investigative judgment, which scholor's work shall we throw out, and why did he do such a poor job? The critics don't deal with this.

a) There are scholars, such as Henri Frankfort, who point out that the ancient world indeed had the day-year principle, and explains how they saw it working.

b) We have evidence that Daniel 8:14 indeed means 2300 days not 1150 days.

c) The ancient world believed in "Investigative Judgments"

d) Frank Moore Cross among others give extreamly strong support, especially from the Elephantine and Samaritan Papri that give 457 BC as the starting date.

All these points are out there among scholars. Which one are we not going to believe if we are going to do away with the Investigative Judgment? To me the critics appear like Achen, the evidence comes closer and closer and they still act in denial.

(The arguments against the investigative judgment is like saying "There is no such thing as a bicycle, but there are wheels, frames, chains, gears and pedels, but give up the idea of there ever being a bicycle)

2. God is not dead, nor passive. In the Bible, when ever God does something special, it is called a kipper. When we look at the changes in the world over the past century and a half, how can you call it business as usual? If it looks like a kipper has been occuring, then why argue against a kipper occuring.

3. You are not suposed to get the same feeling from my writing as you get from Mrs. White. You can read Mrs. White or the wonderful studies in her writings, such as those found in the three chapters in Sanctuary and the Atonement. My paper is to do no more than point out that there is pleanty of evidence outside the church that can make us rest assured that we are on the right track here. As I said, my essay is only supplemtal information.

Kevin, maybe it's just me, or whatever, but I don't have a problem accepting what Sister White and the pioneers wrote about the IJ. The additional information you have provided, while interesting, did not contribute significantly to my understanding of the purpose and function of the IJ. Perhaps that's not what you intended, therefore, I am left wondering - Why did I take time to read it? Please, don't be offended. I'm just giving you honest feedback - for what it's worth.

Kevin, after praying about this thread this morning something occurred to me that reminded me of two other threads (linked below), the “cycles” idea you presented definitely applies to certain prophecies. It’s referred to as – dual application. It appears that God gave prophecies which contain two fulfillments, historical and future. Tell me what you think. I need to pray and study more about what you wrote regarding the IJ and other possible, earlier fulfillments.

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=82;t=000021

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=57;t=000050

(Note: As a result of both a major upgrade and move, the above links no longer work. - Daryl)

Hi Mike:
I will re-read them more carefully. As one of the posters mentioned, I also don't like the term "Duel Prophecy"

The principle I follow is based on "Destroyed for lack of knowlege" in Prophets and Kings, and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" but both of these are macro studies, and at AUC we would start there but apply it in a microstudy to the text at hand. THE fulfillment is either how it was or how it could have been fulfilled at that time. In cyclic thought (try to get Franfort's book "Before Philosophy" from a used book site) similar events cycle around again and we can re-apply the principle to the similar events.

For example, in the Bible we have the theam of the child of promice: Such as the promice to Adam and Eve, Issac, Samuel etc. Isaiah reapplied the theam of the child of promice to the child who was to be a sign for Ahab to know that in a few years he would not have to worry about the king of Israel and the king of Syria. Sadly the King refused to trust God, and so there was not the deliverance that God had hoped to give. The deliverance came, but it was also bad news for Judah-- Assyrea. Matthew reapplied the theam to Jesus. (notice in our trying to get Isaiah predicting Jesus hundreds of years in the future, can you picture someone going to president Bush and saying "Don't worry about Ben Lauden and Sadam Hussin, in 500 years they will be history. In 500 years you won't have to worry about them.")

Jesus did indeed tell that generation that it will not pass, and he did indeed blend together the fall of the temple with the end of the world, depending on the condition "When the gospel is preached into all the world, then shall the end come." The theam of Revelation was "Preach again"

A little closer look, with the sun being dark and the moon red and stars falling.

The context was in talking about the fall of the temple. Normally if a temple fell, that ended the worship of the god of that temple. So for the temple to fall would be a shock to the disciples "What about the worship of Yahweh if the temple falls?" The sun, moon and stars were major gods of the pagans. Jesus was saying that dispite the temple to Yahweh falling, it was going to be the worship of these falls gods that was going to suffer, indicating that they would fall to the knowlege of the gospel. The early apostles started this, but never finished.

Then we have the dark day and red moon in 1798 and the meteror shower of 1833 which called people's attention to these prophecys. But it is interesting how Mrs. White treats the subject. After talking about these events, she then turns her attention to the Bible societys and the mission societies that were forming at the time. The late 1700s and the early 1800s was a spread of the gospel that can only be compaired to the days of the apostles. Thus indeed more of a fulfillment of the prophecy. But now the sun is not as dark, the moon's bleed is only a trickel and the stars are climing back in the sky. But the prophecy is still alive, and will come around again a time of mission work that can only be compaired to the apostles and the late 1700s early 1800s. These are not ezactly what Jesus was talking about when he tied these events of the fall of the temple right to the second coming, but it is close in principle and a fulfillment of the principles.

Kevin, what you call “cycles” I like to refer to as type and antitype, and in some cases, I like to call it dual application. Also, some prophecies seem to treat long periods of time as if certain details happen within a generation, whereas in reality they happen over a period of several generations. Daniel Two is an example of this type of prophecy.

Isaiah’s promised child was a type of the Messiah. Certain details apply to both, and other details only apply to one or the other. For example, a virgin conceiving and bearing a son named Immanuel cannot apply to Isaiah’s wife, it can only apply to the virgin Mary. “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” Isa 7:14.

When Peter applied the prophecy of Joel to the Pentecost Event we understand him to mean that the prophecy began to be fulfilled at that time, not that it was finished too. This prophecy has been in the process of fulfilling ever since the day of Pentecost, but it will not be finished until after the latter rain has finished its appointed work, which, as of yet, is still in the future. So, Joel’s prophecy spans many, many generations.

However, I am not so sure about the cycles idea. Suggesting that the virgin birth or the early-latter rain prophecies should have been fulfilled at the time they were given, way back then, seems to undo the prophecies themselves. Do you see what I mean? Wouldn’t it do away with the type and antitype aspect of prophecy? Jesus referred to Jonah’s fish experience as a type and antitype, and yet, until He made this application, there was no indication it meant Messiah would spend that much time in the grave.

Kevin:

When you say

quote:

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"and at AUC we would start there"

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Both you and I know exactly what you mean, is that at AUC...."WOODY" would "start there." Isn't it time, that you started thinking for yourself, instead of relying on the instructions and examples of a DEFROCKED (morals clause) Religion Instructor at AUC? I don't think you can go through life, and your theology thinking, relying upon the intellectual reasoning of someone who clearly was disconnected from a personal relationship with Christ. While I too took classes from the same individual......I recognized even then, and it caused me to wonder.....that this individual DOES NOT HAVE A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST....irrespective of his intellectual knowledge!

You realize of course, that in certain conferences of the Atlantic Union. That that particular Religion Instructor at AUC was absolutely BANNED from that conference, even back then!
Frankly I'd rather sit at the feet of Paul or Peter who did have that relationship. If I’m unable to set at the feet of Christ Himself.