An Enemy Caused This

quote:

---

"Not one noxious plant was placed in the Lord's great garden, but after Adam and Eve sinned, poisonous herbs sprang up. In the parable of the sower the question was asked the Master, "Didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? how then hath it tares?" The Master answered, "An enemy hath done this." All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares (MS 65, 1899) [published in F. D. Nichol, Ellen G. White and Her Critics]. {1BC 1086.2}

---

quote:

---

I believe Satan caused all of the sinful changes that have occurred in our world - plants and animals and diseases. He is constantly tweaking the forces of nature to distort things.

---

quote:

---

However, he isn't at liberty to do whatever he pleases. God is in control. He cannot break the rules God has outlined, that is, he cannot go beyond the boundaries of God's plan.

---

quote:

---

Yes, God's plan includes the good, the bad, and the ugly.

---

quote:

---

The torture and death of Jesus is evidence that God's plan includes things that, on the surface, seem bad and ugly.

---

quote:

---

But the fact is - the life and death of Jesus is a wonderful thing, it demonstrates the love of God like nothing else can.

---

quote:

---

The same is true of all the seemingly "bad and ugly" things that God has caused Himself or has permitted the Devil to cause.

---

quote:

---

Tom, how much latitude and freedom does Satan have to cause disease and destruction? Does God have any say in what Satan can and cannot do?

---

quote:

---

Will we now suggest that Satan loved the herbivores more than he did the carnivores?

---

quote:

---

Now what happened after the fall we can only speculate on, but God must have either modified the animals or allowed Satan to do so. I expect that it was the former, I just can't believe God would allow Satan to make that drastic of a change.

---

quote:

---

Gen 3:14 And Jehovah God said to the serpent, Because you have done this you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every animal of the field. You shall go upon your belly, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.

---

quote:

---

Gen 3:17 And to Adam He said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it! The ground is cursed for your sake. In pain shall you eat of it all the days of your life.

Gen 3:18 It shall also bring forth thorns and thistles to you, and you shall eat the herb of the field.

---

quote:

---

God said that thistles and thorns would spring up out of the ground, therefore, didn't God do that Himself?

---

quote:

---

And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. (Numbers 21:6)

---

quote:

---

"Not one noxious plant was placed in the Lord's great garden, but after Adam and Eve sinned, poisonous herbs sprang up. In the parable of the sower the question was asked the Master, "Didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? how then hath it tares?" The Master answered, "An enemy hath done this." All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares (MS 65, 1899) [published in F. D. Nichol, Ellen G. White and Her Critics]. {1BC 1086.2}

---

quote:

---

3 SG 75
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {3SG 75.2}

---

quote:

---

All nature is confused; for God forbade the earth to carry out the purpose He had originally designed for it. Let there be no peace to the wicked, saith the Lord. The curse of God is upon all creation. Every year it makes itself more decidedly felt (MS 76a, 1901). {1BC 1085.5}

The first curse was pronounced upon the posterity of Adam and upon the earth, because of disobedience. The second curse came upon the ground after Cain slew his brother Abel. The third most dreadful curse from God, came upon the earth at the Flood (4SG 121). {1BC 1085.6}

The Lord's curse is upon the earth, upon man, upon beast, upon the fish in the sea, and as transgression becomes almost universal the curse will be permitted to become as broad and as deep as the transgression (Letter 59, 1898). {1BC 1085.9}

The curse is increasing as transgression increases (Letter 22, Feb. 13, 1900). {1BC 1086.1}

Those who honored and feared to offend God, at first felt the curse but lightly; while those who turned from God and trampled upon his authority, felt the effects of the curse more heavily, especially in stature and nobleness of form. {3SG 60.2}

The curse did not change at once the appearance of the earth. It was still rich in the bounty God had provided for it. There was gold and silver in abundance. The race of men then living were of very great stature, and possessed wonderful strength. {3SG 61.2}

---

quote:

---

Then I guess we could say that the devil cooperates with God when it is in his best interest to do so.

---

quote:

---

Death was never part of God's plan, thus, none of the animals He created were especially equipped to kill other animals or to tear their flesh or to digest flesh for food. All animals, including "carnivores", could survive on a vegetarian diet, flesh is not necessasry. This is true today, and was even more true just after the Fall of man (before the Flood). The "curse" did not immediately change the world, it took time to change, and did not really happen until after the Flood.

---

quote:

---

Christ never planted the seeds of death in the system. Satan planted these seeds when he tempted Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge which meant disobedience to God (MS 65, 1899) [published in F. D. Nichol, Ellen G. White and Her Critics]. {1BC 1082.5}

Adam listened to the words of the tempter, and yielding to his insinuations, fell into sin. Why was not the death penalty at once enforced in his case?--Because a ransom was found. God's only begotten Son volunteered to take the sin of man upon Himself, and to make an atonement for the fallen race. {1BC 1082.6}

God forbears, for a time, the full execution of the sentence of death pronounced upon man. {1BC 1085.4}

Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the son of God (Ibid., March 14, 1878). {1BC 1104.5}

But a plan was devised that the sentence of death should rest upon a substitute. In the plan of redemption there must be the shedding of blood, for death must come in consequence of man's sin. {1BC 1086.7}

The Lord has given His life to the trees and vines of His creation. His word can increase or decrease the fruit of the land. If men would open their understanding to discern the relation between nature and nature's God, faithful acknowledgments of the Creator's power would be heard. Without the life of God, nature would die. His creative works are dependent on Him. He bestows life-giving properties on all that nature produces. We are to regard the trees laden with fruit as the gift of God, just as much as though He placed the fruit in our hands (MS 114, 1899). {1BC 1081.4}

---

quote:

---

The people of Israel were at this time loyal to God; and so long as they continued in obedience to His law, no power in earth or hell could prevail against them. But the curse which Balaam had not been permitted to pronounce against
God's people, he finally succeeded in bringing upon them by seducing them into sin. When they transgressed God's commandments, then they separated themselves from Him, and they were left to feel the power of the destroyer. (GC 529)

---

quote:

---

Although the earth was blighted with the curse, nature was still to be man's lesson book. It could not now represent goodness only; for evil was everywhere present, marring earth and sea and air with its defiling touch. Where once was written only the character of God, the knowledge of good, was now written also the character of Satan, the knowledge of evil. From nature, which now revealed the knowledge of good and evil, man was continually to receive warning as to the results of sin. (Ed 26)

---

quote:

---

Recognizing that Satan has been an active agent in the corrupting of God's plan for man, beast, plants, etc., we can better understand what Ellen White may have meant when she described the results of amalgamation. That which "defaced the image of God" in man and that which "confused the species [of animals]" has been the handiwork of Satan with the cooperation of humans. Such "amalgamation of man and [of] beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men," becomes understandable.

---

quote:

---

Darius, the reason Satan is alive, in spite of his sinfulness, is due to the fact God is unnaturally sustaining his life. The same is true of us. The long lingering first death we die is not natural, that is, in the sense we would naturally die the same day we sin if it were not for the plan of salvation. Every time we sin, grace buys us another chance to get it right.

---

quote:

---

n a world full of sin death is natural, life is unnatural. God is sustaining life in a world of sin unnaturally, against nature, against law. It is the blood of Jesus that allows God to give life in a world of sin, contrary to the natural course of sin, contrary to the command - "In the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Darius:
MM, in that case please explain why God keeps Lucifer alive and not us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by västergötland:
What about "someone else sins, you die", with Jesus being the prime example.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redfog:
OK Darius tell us why sin does not cause death.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Darius:
If an idea is wrong there is no advantage to being simple.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mountain Man:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redfog:
OK Darius tell us why sin does not cause death.

---

Redfog, sin doesn't cause death. God is the source of life. We die when He stops sustaining us with life. But real death doesn't happen until the second death. The first death is merely a sleep (not that it isn't a sad thing).

---

quote:

---

Gen. 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redfog:
God cannot allow sin to keep going, the how He stops it matters not to me because I have faith in a just and true God.

---

quote:

---

Redfog, sin doesn't cause death.

---

quote:

---

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.(James 1:15)

---

quote:

---

Show that it was sin which marred God's perfect work; that thorns and thistles, sorrow and pain and death, are all the result of disobedience to God.(The Faith I Live By 274)

---

quote:

---

By transgression of this law man brought sin into the world, and with sin came death. (God's Amazing Grace 15)

---

quote:

---

God is the life-giver. From the beginning, all His laws were ordained to life. But sin broke in upon the order that God had established, and discord followed. So long as sin exists, suffering and death are inevitable. It is only because the Redeemer has borne the curse of sin in our behalf, that man can hope to escape, in his own person, its dire results. (Ibid. 73; also PP 522)

---

quote:

---

Telling the truth about God is better than arguing over "mute" points of theology. However, understanding the truth about how God has handled sin and sinners since the Fall, and how He will eliminate unsaved sinners in the lake of fire says a lot about God. Eliminating sin, sinning, and unsaved sinners is what the plan of salvation and the great controversy is all about. How and why it happens will set the tone for eternity.

---

quote:

---

It is Satan's constant effort to misrepresent the character of God, the nature of sin, and the real issues at stake in the great controversy. (GC 568)

---

quote:

---

MM I just don't see how it matters. We know that the wages of sin is death. If I sin I'll lose eternal life and perish in the lake of fire. In any case it will be my failure to have a relationship with my Creator that will cause me so suffer eternal death. God cannot allow sin to keep going, the how He stops it matters not to me because I have faith in a just and true God.

---

quote:

---

It is Satan's constant effort to misrepresent the character of God, the nature of sin, and the real issues at stake in the great controversy. His sophistry lessens the obligation of the divine law, and gives men license to sin. At the same time he causes them to cherish false conceptions of God, so that they regard him with fear and hate, rather than with love. The cruelty inherent in his own character is attributed to the Creator; it is embodied in systems of religion, and expressed in modes of worship. Thus the minds of men are blinded, and Satan secures them as his agents to war against God. (GC 1888 568)

---

quote:

---

Expel sin from your hearts, for sin caused the death of the Son of God. (FILB 313)

---

quote:

---

The sacrificial offerings were ordained by God to be to man a perpetual reminder and a penitential acknowledgment of his sin and a confession of his faith in the promised Redeemer. They were intended to impress upon the fallen race the solemn truth that it was sin that caused death. (LHU 324)

---

quote:

---

Tom, did I do a good job of wording you position (on page 3)?

---

quote:

---

This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph. 4:18; Prov. 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. (DA 764)

---