Understanding the prophecy of Zechariah chapter 6 (part 1 of 3)

1)KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THE PROPHECIES.

"The Bible is its own expositor. One passage will prove to be a key that will unlock other passages, and in this way light will be shed upon the hidden meaning of the word. By comparing different texts treating on the same subject, viewing their bearing on every side, the true meaning of the Scriptures will be made evident.

"...How little has been done by the church as a body professing to believe the Bible, to gather up the scattered jewels of God's word into one perfect chain of truth! The jewels of truth do not lie upon the surface, as many suppose....

"The jewels of truth lie scattered over the field of revelation; but they have been buried beneath human traditions, beneath the sayings and commandments of men, and the wisdom from heaven has been practically ignored; . . .There are veins of truth yet to be discovered; but spiritual things are spiritually discerned....

"But those who profess to believe in Jesus, should ever press to the light. They should daily pray for the light of the Holy Spirit to shine upon the pages of the sacred book, that they may be enabled to comprehend the things of the Spirit of God. We must have implicit trust in God's word, or we are lost....

"The reason that many professed Christians do not have a clear, well-defined experience, is that they do not think it is their privilege to understand what God has spoken through His word...." Fundamentals of Christian Education pp. 187-189.

"God's Spirit has illuminated every page of Holy Writ, but there are those upon whom it makes little impression, because it is imperfectly understood." Testimonies to Ministers p. 112.


Let us now proceed to examine one of those veins of truth, a prophecy of the Old Testament that was written many years ago for those upon whom the ends of the world are come. Let us turn to the Word of God to find out how and when the Lord takes the reins in His own hands. (See: Testimonies to Ministers p. 300.)



"And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. (Note: these colors mean something).

Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.

And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country." Zech. 6:1-8.

These verses contain one of the most remarkable and important pictorial prophecies recorded in Sacred Writ, and their true interpretation brings a soul-gripping revelation of momentous church history both past and future.

Herein we see four chariots coming out from between two brass mountains. The chariots are pulled by different colored horses.

2)HOW CAN WE UNDERSTAND THIS PROPHECY?

The first thing we have to ascertain is whether this prophecy is literal or symbolic.

"The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed. Christ has given the promise: 'If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine.' John 7:17." Great Controversy p, 599.

"...The Old Testament is the gospel in figures and symbols. The New Testament is the substance. One is as essential as the other...." Counsels to Writers and Editors p. 26.

It is quickly discerned at a glance that this must be a Symbolic Prophecy as one does not normally see mountains composed of brass and different colored horses going in designated directions without the aid of a driver.

In order to correctly understand this prophecy, the first symbol to be considered is the mountains of brass.



3)WHAT DO MOUNTAINS REPRESENT?

"But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." Micah 4:1,2.


Here we see that in the last days, God's church is likened unto a mountain.

In Isaiah 56:7 the Scriptures again use the symbolism of a mountain to represent God's church.

"Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isa. 56:7.


"And while I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;" (Daniel 9:20)

Now let us see the Spirit of Prophecy comments on this text, "Many and wonderful are the promises recorded in the Scriptures regarding the church. 'Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.' Isaiah 56:7." Acts of the Apostles p. 9.

Why does the Lord show us a mountain to symbolize His church in this prophecy? Let us turn to the Spirit of Prophecy to find our answer.

"Behind the lofty bulwarks of the mountains--in all ages the refuge of the persecuted and oppressed--the Waldenses found a hiding place. Here the light of truth was kept burning amid the darkness of the Middle Ages. Here, for a thousand years, witnesses for the truth maintained the ancient faith.

"God had provided for His people a sanctuary of awful grandeur, befitting the mighty truths committed to their trust. To those faithful exiles the mountains were an emblem of the immutable righteousness of Jehovah. They pointed their children to the heights towering above them in unchanging majesty, and spoke to them of Him with whom there is no variableness nor shadow of turning, whose word is as enduring as the everlasting hills.

God had set fast the mountains and girded them with strength; no arm but that of Infinite Power could move them out of their place. In like manner He had established His law, the foundation of His government in heaven and upon earth.

The arm of man might reach his fellow men and destroy their lives; but that arm could as readily uproot the mountains from their foundations, and hurl them into the sea, as it could change one precept of the law of Jehovah, or blot out one of His promises to those who do His will. In their fidelity to His law, God's servants should be as firm as the unchanging hills.

"The mountains that girded their lowly valleys were a constant witness to God's creative power, and a never-failing assurance of His protecting care. Those pilgrims learned to love the silent symbols of Jehovah's presence." Great Controversy pp. 65,66.

Thus we must conclude that the mountains in this prophecy must represent God's church.

The fact that there are two mountains with a valley in between from which the chariots come, distinctly show us that these two mountains must represent God's church in two different periods of time when His church could be symbolized as a strong and durable mountain, We must remember that God never has more than one true church at a time.

Next week, we'll look at --Why brass? What do each of the four chariots represent?

So the angel speaking with Zechariah is Christ, as in previous chapters.
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No, it appears not. The verse 6:4 reads, "Then I answered and said to the angel who talked with me, 'What are these, my lord?"

The word for "angel" in Hebrew is "malak" which means --messenger of God, an angel.

As often said in the previous chapters (1 to 5) the messages given Zechariah are from a angel. For instance in chapter 2, we read again, "And there was the angel who talked to me, going out; and another angel was coming to meet him.."

Although Zechariah often refers to this angel as "my lord" we notice that it is not the capital "LORD" used. Back in Zechariah's day this term was used often as a means of respect.

But more importantly we shall see the lesson that the Lord is attempting to send us with this symbolic vision. Each piece comes together as a puzzle and once completed becomes a clear and unmistakable lesson.

Yes Christ is the angel of the LORD.

He is God's messenger.

See EGW on Zechariah 3. The angel is Christ.

Since these horses first appear in Zechariah 1,
that might be a better launching pad for the lesson.

(BTW - Is this your own study, or are you sharing
another's interpretation ?)

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(If Christ is our focus, we should acknowledge His presence when passages speak of Him)

Surely this won't detract from a study.
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Actually in re-reading and doing a little more in depth study , you may very well be correct. But even if this is so, it makes this lesson even more powerful, because it is coming straight from the Lord Himself to Zechariah. All the more we study it and know it!

This study is the interpretive work of brother Houteff.

As far as "going back to chapter one", there are several lessons through out the chapters, with different meanings of the different lessons. For instance Zechariah 4 shows God's method of interpreting the Scripture correctly. We may get to that next.

http://sdabol.org/reins.html

If you really want to know the symbolic importance of the prophecy of the 4 colors of the chariots of Zachariah Chapter 6:2 which states; In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses" then you must look to Revelations Chapter 6.

Revelation 6: 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Now read the chapter from Uriah Smith's book 'Daniel and Revelation' on Rev Chapter 6 and the seven seals.

It makes me so sad to see so much confusion over the true intent of the word of God, and for men to be here to teach other men these lies. So sad.

Look at the location of where the first four seals were felt and see the correlation between them and the four winds of Zechariah 6. Then you will know the intent of this prophecy.

It is good that you continue teaching this garbage here because people will just stop listening because it is proven a lie.

And just so no one here falls into this trap without fair warning, Godsloveandlaw is advocating this man Houteff as a prophet from God.

And in the writing that he is taking all this information from Houteff that improperly quotes the Spirit of Prophecy and misapplies scripture, Mr Houteff says the first three horse drawn chariots represent the early SDA church in the three angels messages, and the fourth Chariot with the "bay horses" represent the 144,000 when Christ takes the reigns of the church.

But he doesn't realize that in the history of the Christian church the fourth phase of the church in Revelation 6, the pale horse whose rider is death, is synonomous with this "grizzled Bay". The fourth phase of the Christian church is when they were killed for their faith to the point where men gave up the true faith.

“And power was given unto them” - him, says the margin; that is, the power personified by Death on the pale horse; namely, the papacy. By the fourth part of the earth is doubtless meant the territory over which this power had jurisdiction; while the words sword, hunger, death (that is, some infliction which causes death, as exposure, torture, etc.), and beasts of the earth, are figures denoting the means by which it has put to death its martyrs, fifty millions of whom, according to the lowest estimate, call for vengeance from beneath its bloody altar.{DAR 438.3}

Every single pioneer of the Seventh Day Adventist Church agrees with this understanding, but Mr Heuteff says this horse is the 144,000? This horse is the church durring the death decree from the Papacy. He claimed to be a part of the Grizzled team because he thought he was persecuted from the SDA church for the truth.

Can anyone here tell this man which of the four horses in Revelation 6 is the church that represents the apostolic early rain church which is what the remnant is a copy of? Since I would probably wait in vain for an answer; it is the white horse. The Apostolic church durring the first seal was first after Christ with the bow of promise in their hands, who went conquering and to conquer.

So for this Mr Houteff to say that the grizzled Bay is the 144,000 obviously does not apply scripture in the same way that John the Apostle who wrote Revelation, or any of the Pioneers did does he?

Houteff's whole mission was to call the SDA church Babylon, and that is what Godsloveandlaw is here to do in his wake. You support a false prophet Godsloveandlaw.

In continuing our Zechariah 6 study. Let us recap what we learned from the prior study.

1) Zechariah saw two mountains made of brass.
2) A space between the mountains in which he saw four chariots "coming from between them".
3) Each of the four chariots had horses of different colors
4) Mountains in Scripture describe God's people or church.

let us continue --

What significance is there in the fact that these mountains are composed of brass?

If the mountains represent God's church in two different periods of time, then the metal brass, must be characteristic of God's church at that particular time. Let us see if brass has any outstanding properties that could be characteristic of God's true church.

BRASS---"Articles made from brass are free from dirt, gas and other defects so that the product can be polished to a brilliant finish." World Book Encyclopedia, 1962, Vol. 2 p. 467.

Now let us see how the Spirit of Prophecy describes the remnant church when she becomes the church triumphant.

"His church is to be a temple built after the divine similitude, and the angelic architect has brought his golden measuring rod from heaven, that every stone may be hewed and squared by the divine measurement and polished to shine as an emblem of heaven, radiating in all directions the bright, clear beams of the Sun of Righteousness....The dross, the worthless material, will be consumed, and the influence of the truth testifies to the world of its sanctifying, ennobling character...." Testimonies to Ministers pp. 17,18.

Being composed of brass, the two mountains can never, in even the smallest part be carried away by wind or flood. Matter not what betide them, they stand immovable. And as they are symbols of God's holy church, they must therefore represent her at a time when she is able to withstand the storm when she is a clean and fit place for the dwelling of His Holy Presence.

Has God ever had a church fitting this description?

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:1-4.

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls....Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Acts 2:41,47.

Thus we see that the early Christian church may fittingly be represented as the first brass mountain-a strong and durable church in which the Holy Spirit dwelt. Now let us see what the Spirit of Prophecy has to say about this church.

"The apostles encountered those in the church who professed godliness while they were secretly cherishing iniquity. Ananias and Sapphira acted the part of deceivers, pretending to make an entire sacrifice for God, when they were covetously withholding a portion for themselves.

The Spirit of truth revealed to the apostles the real character of these pretenders, and the judgments of God rid the church of this foul blot upon its purity. This signal evidence of the discerning Spirit of Christ in the church was a terror to hypocrites and evildoers." Great Controversy p. 44.

"Through the gift of the Holy Spirit the disciples were to receive a marvelous power. Their testimony was to be confirmed by signs and wonders. Miracles would be wrought, not only by the apostles, but by those who received their message. Jesus said, "In My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:17, 18." Desire of Ages p. 821.

Thus we see that the first brass mountain fittingly represents the early Apostolic church in her purity. Logic would lead us to conclude that if the first brass mountain represents God's church at a time when the church was strong and durable, able to withstand the storms of persecution and endowed with the Pentecostal power of the Holy Spirit, then in order to be consistent we would have to conclude that the second brass mountain must also represent God's church at a time when she will again be endowed with this same power.

Does our church at the present time meet this condition?

"The church is not now the separate and peculiar people she was when the fires of persecution were kindled against her. How is the gold become dim! how is the most fine gold changed! I saw that if the church had always retained her peculiar, holy character, the power of the Holy Spirit which was imparted to the disciples would still be with her.

The sick would be healed, devils would be rebuked and cast out, and she would be mighty and a terror to her enemies." Early Writings p. 227.

"From considerations like these, it is evident that the perfect state of the church here predicted is still in the future;..." Early Writings p. 140.


"A Hope of Reform.---The church must and will shine forth "fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners." God's servants must, by laboring together with Christ, roll away the curse that has made the church so lukewarm. [Rev. 3:15-19 quoted.] The chastening reveals a hope of reform [vs. 20, 21 quoted] (Letter 130, 1902)." 7 Bible Commentary p. 966, E.G. White.

The facts so far established show God's dwelling place in two separate sections, for He has only one church organization at a time. The truth having been solidly established that the Early Christian Church is symbolized by the first "Brass Mountain," and the Purified Church that closes the gospel work by the other, (which is yet future) then it follows as a logical sequence that the valley lying between the two mountains (the space through which the chariots come forth), therefore denotes the period of church history between the two holy church organizations.

This valley then must symbolize the history of the church from the time when the Apostolic church's purity began to wane until the time when the Lord purifies the seventh church (Laodicea), when she shall go forth conquering and to conquer (Prophets and Kings p. 725), becoming the church triumphant (Testimonies to Ministers p. 47), the church in whom Christ character will be perfectly reproduced (Christ's Object Lessons p. 69), thus ushering in the period of the Second Brass Mountain. (Follow the Chart provided with this study.)

God's Church Represented by Many Symbols.

God's church has been represented all down through the ages by various symbols depending upon the varied conditions and circumstances in which the church is typified.

Isaiah speaks of God's church as a crown of glory, showing the honor and glory that will be conferred upon God's church in the last days.

"Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God." Isa. 62:3.

Jeremiah portrays the might and courage of the church by the symbolism of a Battle Ax.

"Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms;" Jer. 51:20

John the Revelator portrays the church as a beautiful golden Candlestick, depicting how the church should be the light of the world.

"...and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." Rev. 1:20.

When the Lord wanted to portray how true and pure the church must be, He symbolized it by a comely and delicate woman, a virgin.

"I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman." Jer. 6:2.

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." 2 Cor. 11:2.

Thus we see that God typifies His church by various symbols depending upon the truths that He is endeavoring to portray in that particular instance. If the Lord wanted to portray how close His relationship is to His church He wouldn't use the symbol of a candlestick or a mountain. The symbol of a Bride would be more fitting.

Would the Lord use the symbol of a virgin to portray how strong and durable His church must be? Of course not. The symbol of a brass mountain would be more fitting.


--Next study we'll look at the four chariots and what they represent.

Keep spruing your garbage Jamesofthunder. I won't even waste my time trying to reason with you as you are convinced that not only are you right but that you are some type of prophet. We've seen your postings of your "dreams and revelations". I for one see clearly your deception in full bloom. Let the people beware.

One day we shall see who is standing brother. This will be the last time I address you and must hold to counsel:

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly , lest you be like him " (Proverbs 26:4)

Keep trying to tell the people here on this site you are a prophet brother, they will, if not already, know that your self- delusion runs deep.

Did Mr. Houteff advocate dress & diet reform in the modern age?
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"Did Mr. Houteff advocate dress & diet reform in the modern age?"

Oh yes, absolutely! In his very first work (Shepherd's Rod, volume 1) he stated in the preface--" It is the intention of this book to reveal the truth of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7, but the CHIEF OBJECT of this publication is to bring about REFORMATION among God's people.

He was known for advocating sister White's counsel on dress reform. He also was a reformer in the medical arena. He continually warned through public addresses and even in the writings about how we as God's remnant people have adapted to the world in our medical treatments and facilities. Here is his specific writings on warning our church of their need of reformation.

Jezreel Letters to the SDA leaders

Particularly in letter number 9 he said, " Having returned to God and having tasted of this new experience with the Lord, His faithful people long to meet together and speak their blessings one to another. Being mindful of their gladness of heart, and of their longing to communicate His goodness one to another, He promises to write a book of everlasting remembrance.

We can now for sure take hold of God's promises and make
them our own. What a privilege and what an opportunity is now ours! Look and see what a difference there is between God's method for supporting His work, and the Roman system that is now carried on by the church: plate-passing, high-powered speeches, Big Day, Book Day, high pressuring, campaigning, selling, auctioneering, Harvest Ingathering, birthday offerings, Christmas-tree hangings, baby weighings, Dorcas sales, investment funds, and what not!

As none of these squeezings are Biblical, and as all of them are Pagan in origin and condemned by the Scriptures, they could not possibly be considered freewill offerings. Search and see.

Instead of Sabbath-keeping the day is devoted to money raising, and instead of a house of worship, the church is turned into a den of thieves -- disgusting to observers, and most discouraging for a member to invite a friend or a neighbor to a church service. Is there any wonder that God does not now bring many into the church ("Testimonies," Vol. 6, p. 371)?

'One's support of the timely Davidian message, and his living out its principles (baptism, Sabbath observance along with the rest of the ten commandments, vegetarianism, dress reform total abstinence from tobacco and alcoholic beverages, and all else contained in the Spirit of Prophecy), are the truest witnesses of his affiliation, and the only genuine visible certification of the fact. These are the only absolutely convincing evidences of one's worthiness to membership in the Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Association.'(Answerer, vol. 5, Question no.150)

Mr Houteff was brought before the elders of our faith and denounced as a heretic. But here you are trying to force his opinions upon the remnant like his minion.

I can only claim that everything that God has shown me has or is coming true.

I claim that the remnant will arise from the SDA church and the message of the Spirit of Prophecy is perfect. God never contradicts himself, but your Mr Houteff claimed that the time had come for the 144,000 to leave the SDA church and disavowed our faith and said some of the things Mrs White was inspired to write was not actually the truth.

He kept claiming that he had a greater truth than our Lord's servant Mrs White.

I have have never claimed that, because everything God has shown me directly through the Spirit shows me that what He gave Mrs White was perfect even in the great disappointment. She was wrong sometimes (end of probation/ shut door in 1844 etc), but that was not from God and she was corrected very perfectly. The disappointment was from God because He wanted to test the remnant but then the Spirit of Prophecy came to correct.

GOD NEVER CONTRADICTS HIMSELF and He said there would NEVER be another calling out from the church. We are to go to the end on this ship, but you want men to abandon ship. Hmm, I wonder what kind of spirit would motivate you to come on an SDA website to teach men this garbage?

And YES you are very correct that we will see who was motivated by God and who will stand very soon.

Sorry, but that' snot true. God is of light, truth and love. He NEVER leads anyone into darkness and great disappointment. The devil does that, as he did to Eve. Don't you read the Bible anymore?

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In continuing the Zech. 6 study we look at the first three chariots. We'll hold off on the 4th as it has special significance for us today.


Since God's church was not a pure and powerful church during the period of time represented by the valley between the two Holy church periods, then God's symbolism for His church during this period of time is represented by a symbol depicting the condition of His church at that period of time. For a church in the work of gathering souls, the most fitting symbol is a "chariot," and for its leadership, naturally "horses".

"And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord." Isa. 66:20

Says the prophet Zechariah: "In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD. " Zech. 14:20. As symbols to illustrate various lessons, horses are quite prominently employed in the Scriptures, being in every instance perfectly adapted, of course, to the circumstance or situation. In this connection, they represent people (the leaders of the church), for the sounding of their "bells" is "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;" whereas "The spasmodic, fitful movements of some who claim to be Christians is well represented by the work of strong but untrained horses. When one pulls forward, another pulls back;" Testimonies to Ministers pp . 485, 490.

As there are, in the symbolization before us, four chariots to be identified, we must therefore consider each one separately, beginning with

The First Chariot.

One of the keys to understanding this prophecy is found in Zechariah's question in verses 4 and 5.

"Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth." [u]Zech . 6:4, 5.

Notice that these four Spirits are Heaven-born, therefore they must be Heaven-born messages carried by His church on earth.

"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." 1 John 5:6.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24.

The consecutive order of the chariots indicates a series of gospel events. " In the first chariot were red horses." That the color red stands for bloodshed, the Spirit of Prophecy bears out: "As we were traveling along, we met a company who also were gazing at the glories of the place. I noticed red as a border on their garments; their crowns were brilliant; their robes were pure white. As we greeted them, I asked Jesus who they were. He said they were MARTYRS that had been slain for Him." Early Writings pp. 18,19.

The red border on the garments of this company being symbolic of martyrdom, obviously, then, the red color of the "horses" denotes the martyred leaders of the church before 538 A.D.

In response to Zechariah's question as to who the horses were and where they were going, the angel answered: "The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country, And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth." Zech. 6:6,7.

Though the angel's answer discloses the respective directions toward which the black, white, grisled, and bay horses went, It omits to make the slightest mention of the Red Horses, thus riveting the conclusion that the Red Horses were martyred and went nowhere so far as their final destination is concerned. This being clear, our next step, logically, is to identify

The Second Chariot.

"And in the second chariot (were) black horses," Universally, the figurative significance of "black" is bondage, So as the martyrdom of the early Christian church was followed by the Dark Ages of religion, from 538 A. D to 1798 A. D., it is evident that the chariot with the black horses represents the church and its leadership during this long prophetic period in ecclesiastical Roman bondage.

This fact is borne out by the angel's explanation of the horses' destination: "The black horses, " he said, " . . .go forth into the north country. " And "the north country" is the Biblical term for ancient Babylon, as is quickly seen from the following Scriptures:

". . .saith the Lord God; . . I will bring. . . Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, . ,from the North." Ezek. 26:7. Again: when the Jews were returning from Babylon to Jerusalem, God spoke through His prophet Zechariah, saying: "Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the North" (Zech 2:6), thus identifying Babylon as the "North Country."

But as we are dealing with the fulfillment of prophecy in the New Testament era, the north country in this connection must be antitypical Babylon---Christianized Rome---where God's people during the New Testament period have gone. This clear-cut truth concerning the second chariot, leads us to the exposition The

Third Chariot.

And there were "In the third chariot white horses." Since Black is significant of bondage, then white, being the opposite of black, must denote Liberty. Accordingly, the white horses with their chariot must be symbolical of the church following her 1260 year period of Roman bondage.

Said the angel to Zechariah: "The white go forth after" the Black Horses, to the north country. The white chariot therefore represent a free church, carrying a heaven-born message to the north country shortly after 1798 A. D., in the time of religious liberty, after Protestantism had broken away from Papal Rome. The only such message found on record is that of the Millerite Movement, of which we read:

"To William Miller and his co-laborers it was given to preach the warning in America. This country became the center of the great advent movement....The writings of Miller and his associates were carried to distant lands. Wherever missionaries had penetrated in all the world, were sent the glad tidings of Christ's speedy return." Great Controversy p. 368.

But though "the White Horses" went to the "north country, " the Millerites, or "First Advent Movement," was not in response to the call, "come out of her My people." This is made clear by Miller's own words: "In all my labors....I never had the desire or thought to establish any separate interest from the existing denominations, or to benefit one at the expense of another. I thought to benefit all." Great Controversy p. 375.

The concluding revelation is: "Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted My Spirit in the north country." Zech. 6:8. After the warning message by the Millerite movement had been rejected by the churches, in the fulfillment of the words, "have quieted My Spirit in the north country, "God withdrew His Spirit from them. In evidence of this, "the second Angel" announced: "Babylon is fallen." Rev.14:8.

Babylon at this time experienced only a moral fall. She does not completely fall until the time of the Loud Cry. See Great Controversy pp. 389-390.

The foregoing chain of facts surrounding the first three symbolical "chariots", shows that the series of gospel events which they comprehend terminated with the Millerite movement, in 1844 A.D., And the additional fact that the "white" color of the "horses" also denotes purity, show that the "third chariot" is symbolical of the church which of all the seven churches is the only one that is white, without condemnation---the Philadelphia church (Rev. 3: 7).

The Millerite, or "First Advent Movement," being the only one that never cast out any of its brethren, is consequently the only church which can be represented by the white chariot, and the only one worthy of the name "Philadelphia"---"brotherly love."

Ever true to God, it closed its brief but spotless career in 1844, its appointed destination. Having lived its entire life under the personal supervision of its founder, it was never new-modeled. Thus being without condemnation, as perfectly illustrated by the third "chariot" and its "white horses," it stands out in bold relief to the succeeding movement represented by the fourth chariot.

To be continued ....

"I was confirmed in all I had stated in Minneapolis,
that a reformation must go through the churches.
Reforms must be made, for spiritual weakness and blindness
were upon the people who had been blessed with great light
and precious opportunities and privileges."

"As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches,
but they now act a part similar to that which the churches acted.
We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out."

1888 Materials 356, 7.
________________________________________

"The principles of truth that God in His wisdom
has given to the remnant church, would be discarded.
Our religion would be changed.
The fundamental principles that have sustained the work
for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.
A new organization would be established."

1 Selected Messages 204 (1904)
____________________________

That the devil is doing his utmost to destroy the power of the Seventh-day Adventist church is true enough. That he is having considerable success is also true enough.
The devil would love to see this church destroyed.

Yet, we need to take a lesson from Paul.
(in Acts 27 we read the account)
Travelling to Rome on ship during a terrible storm it seemed the ship was doomed. Several sailors tried to sneak off in a life boat, but Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, "Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved."
And so everyone stayed with the ship. Yes, the ship did sink in the end, but not until they were so close that everyone could swim to shore.

So with the church, it may be battered and torn, but the safest place still is with the ship. All the "off-shoots" that have called people out have had very serious problems and errors, I have seen several of them.

The time will come when there is a great shaking, and we must be sure we remain true to our calling and not follow the multitudes that will be renouncing the truths.

But right now there is the leavening process going on -- trying to bring in false teachings to prepare people to renounce the truths when the shaking comes. There are movements also to disconnect and scatter those who want to be serious about truth. In other words the devil is preparing things in an attempt to wipe out the influence of the Seventh-day Adventist truth by pushing the members into any ditch he can manufacture.
The question is -- will we join him or will we "strengthen that which remains" and point people to a full commitment to Jesus which alone will enable them to stand.



Also we MUST read EGW's words in context.
Throughout her history she was upset with people who took her writings of warning and reproof and turned them against the church itself.

View the context of your quotes in the passage below, and see that we as church members are to stand firm against the devil's invasions, NOT call people out of the church

This counsel applied in 1893.
And probably to every Protestant church for a period.

Staying with the ship was specific advice from "the angel of God"
who stood with Paul that night, "whose I am, and whom I serve."
(Acts 27:23)

This could only be Christ.

"We hoped that there would not be the necessity
for another coming out."

___________________

In finishing the Lord's message to us from the symbolism of Zech. 6, we take a look at the mystic and profound last chariot. Let us keep in mind that this prophecy was "unlocked" for a specific lesson and warning to us, the last church.

The Fourth Chariot.

Since the first three "chariots" embrace the history of the church from the Early Christian Church up to 1844 A.D., the fourth one must represent a subsequent church organization-successor to the Millerite, or Philadelphia church. The last of "the seven churches, " the church of the "Laodiceans," necessarily, therefore, is the one symbolized by the "Fourth Chariot."

Just as the name "Philadelphia" fits only one church organization, and only one of the chariots, so the name "Laodicean" an logically fit only one of the chariots and only one denomination. The word, itself, is derived from the Greek word, Lego-dikean, meaning, "declaring judgment."

After the event of the Philadelphian church, there must therefore be a church declaring judgment. And it is a historical fact that in 1844 A.D., the very year the Millerite movement came to the end of its appointed course, a new movement, our Seventh-day Adventist denomination, arose, proclaiming: "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come." Rev. 14:7.

Grisled and The Bay Horses---Double Leadership.

And in the "fourth chariot" were "grisled and bay horses." The anomalous part of this symbolical prophecy is manifestly, that the fourth chariot, unlike the other three, has a double span of horses.

Just as the colors of the preceding horses are significant so the colors of this double team on this last chariot are also significant.

The marginal reference in your Bible will tell you that the Bay horses are a strong team and indeed they must be as Zechariah tells us that they are the team that eventually wins out in their determination to go to and fro through the earth, Zech. 6:6,7.

The color "Bay" is a definite hue or color, easy to be defined, a very common color. As the Bible marginal reference has already told us that the "Bay" horses are a strong team, then we will proceed on to find the significance of the "grisled" colored horses.

A "grisled" color is not a definite hue or color It is an undefined color. In this setting the word "grisled could be synonymous with the word "Laodicea", "neither cold nor hot." Ministry and laity alike are warned that if we continue to remain in a "lukewarm" (grisled) condition that we will be spewed out. "Because you are lukewarm, I must spew you out of My mouth." 7 Bible Commentary p. 963, E. G. White.

The Spirit of Prophecy forewarned us years ago that two parties would be developed in our church. "A new life is coming from heaven and taking possession of all God's people. But divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest." 2 Selected Messages p. 114.

"While the Lord brings into the church those who are truly converted, Satan at the same time brings persons who are not converted into its fellowship. While Christ is sowing the good seed, Satan is sowing the tares. There are two opposing influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of the people of God." Testimonies to Ministers p. 46.

Can we not see clearly the Two Classes of people today in our church as depicted by the grisled and bay team?

In speaking of the ministry (horses), the servant of the Lord counseled us years ago that some of the ministry as well as the laity need to be converted.

"Some ministers, as well as people, need converting. They need to be torn to pieces and made over new. Their work among the churches is worse than lost, and in their present weak, tottering condition, it would be more pleasing to God for them to cease their efforts to help others, and labor with their hands until they are converted. Then they could strengthen their brethren." Testimonies, Vol. 1 p. 37.

"I tell you plainly, brethren, unless the ministers are converted, our churches will be sickly and ready to die....

"When ministers realize the necessity of thorough reformation in themselves, when they feel that they must reach a higher standard, their influence upon the churches will be uplifting and refining.

"There are sinners in the ministry." Testimonies to Ministers pp. 143, 145.

"The work the Lord would do to set the churches in order is not done, because the individual members-and especially the leaders of the flock--would not be corrected." Selected Messages p. 47.

Our object in quoting these statements as recorded in the Spirit of Prophecy is not to just criticize or to find fault with the ministry of our church but to simply point out the truth that we as a denomination have tares in the ministry as well as in the laity.

We know the Lord has his faithful ministers as well as faithful laity. But Satan has also sown his tares among ministry and laity alike. Those ministers or leaders who prove to be faithful are represented by the "Bay" team.

The Paradox

Most arresting about the whole symbolism is the paradoxical fact that the grisled went "toward the south country, and the bay went forth, and ...walked to and fro through the earth"! Zech. 6:6,7. The grisled go one way, and the bay, another way, and yet both are pulling the same chariot.

The Scripture asks the question, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed"? Amos 3:3. The dissimilar teams hitched to the fourth chariot, each pulling in a different direction from the other, show not only that there is a Double Leadership in the Laodicean church, but also that the one is opposed to the other in character as well as in purpose. This condition being a strange one, the wise will well consider it.

Seeing that the Word of God has spoken it, and that the symbolism perfectly describes the contest which, before their very eyes, is taking place, they will tenaciously take hold of the truth.

Many years ago the servant of the Lord commented on this very condition, when she said: "I am filled with sadness when I think of our condition as a people. The Lord has not closed heaven to us, but our own course of continual backsliding has separated us from God. Pride, covetousness, and love of the world have lived in the heart without fear of banishment or condemnation. Grievous and presumptuous sins have dwelt among us. And yet the general opinion is that the church is flourishing and that peace and spiritual prosperity are in all her borders.

"The church has turned back from following Christ her Leader and is steadily retreating toward Egypt. Yet few are alarmed or astonished at their want of spiritual power. Doubt, and even disbelief of the testimonies of the Spirit of God, is leavening our churches everywhere. Satan would have it thus. Ministers who preach self instead of Christ would have it thus.

The testimonies are unread and unappreciated. God has spoken to you. Light has been shining from His word and from the testimonies, and both have been slighted and disregarded. The result is apparent in the lack of purity and devotion and earnest faith among us." Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 217.

Thus we can see that the "south country" or Egypt, the direction into which the "grisled" team is headed is symbolical of the world. Just as ancient Israel while wandering in the wilderness, wanted to go back to Egypt, so modern Israel is walking in her foot steps today. "The professed followers of Christ are no longer a separate and peculiar people....Daily the church is being converted to the world." Christ's Object Lessons pp. 315,316.

"I have been shown that the spirit of the world is fast leavening the church. You are following the same path as did ancient Israel. There is the same falling away from your holy calling as God's peculiar people. ...Your neglect to follow the light will place you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced a woe." Testimonies, Vol. 5 pp. 75, 76.

Grisled Team Cut Off

Seeing that the chariot is drawn by both teams, each pulling in a different direction from the other, obviously both cannot win out without breaking it in two, thus leaving it ruined and useless, One pair or the other, therefore, must be cut out of the traces.

And the fact that the bay (the "strong horses"-verse 3, margin) are the ones who eventually will be enabled to "walk to and fro through the earth" while the grisled have attempted to take the chariot toward the south country (Egypt, the world), shows that the bay team during the Loud Cry, (the period of the second brass mountain) are to possess the chariot and to preach "this gospel of the kingdom...in all the-world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matt. 24:14.

The Spirit of Prophecy commenting on this particular time says: "Servants of God, with their faces lighted up and shining with holy consecration, will hasten from place to place to proclaim the message from heaven. By thousands of voices, all over the earth, the warning will be given. Miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and signs and wonders will follow the believers." Great Controversy p. 612.

"...But the Lord will use in the accomplishment of His work means that we do not now see. He will raise up from among the common people, men and women to do His work, even as of old He called fishermen to be His disciples. There will soon be an awakening that will surprise many.

Those who do not realize the necessity of what is to be done, will be passed by, and the heavenly messengers will work with those who are called the common people, fitting them to carry the truth to many places. Now is the time for us to awake and do what we can." Loma Linda Messages p. 83. (The Paulson Collection of Ellen G. White Letters p. 319)

"God will work a work in our day that but few anticipate. He will raise up and exalt among us those who are taught rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the outward training of scientific institutions....God will manifest that He is not dependent on learned, self-important mortals." Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 82.

What Happens to the Grisled Team?

Since the Spirit of Prophecy tells us that "Only those who have withstood temptation in the strength of the Mighty One will be permitted to act a part in proclaiming it, the Third angel's message when it shall have swelled into the Loud Cry" (R&H Nov. 19, 1908), the question naturally arises, What Happens to the Grisled Team, to those who do not overcome temptation in the strength of the Mighty One?

We found in our studies that when the Judgment for the living commences or just before the Loud Cry begins to be proclaimed that the Lord Himself commissions the five angels with slaughter weapons to go through the city (church) and slay all those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads, men, women and little children perish together. See: Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 211.

In speaking of those who have ministered to others, the Spirit of Prophecy says: "It is with reluctance that the Lord withdraws His presence from those who have been blessed with great light and who have felt the power of the word in ministering to others. They were once His faithful servants, favored with His presence and guidance; but they departed from Him and led others into error, and therefore are brought under the divine displeasure." Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 212.

Thus we can clearly see that the Lord Himself will remove the grisled team .

"Angels keep a faithful record of every man's work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter." Testimonies, Vol. 1 p. 198.

"When trees without fruit are cut down as cumberers of the ground, when multitudes of false brethren are distinguished from the true, then the hidden ones will be revealed to view, and with hosannas range under the banner of Christ. Those who have been timid and self-distrustful will declare themselves openly for Christ and His truth. The most weak and hesitating in the church will be as David--willing to do and dare." Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 81.

The fulfillment of this prophecy will bring into being the Second Brass Mountain, God's purified remnant church.

The hidden ones are brought to view when God purifies His church. They will be the first fruits of the final harvest, the 144,000 (the bay team).

"The great issue so near at hand (the purification of the church) will weed out those whom God has not appointed and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain...." Selected Messages Book 3 p. 385 (Letter 55, 1886).

Thus we can see with the 144,000 as the Loud Cry ministry, the Second Brass Mountain will come into being.

Isaiah calls this pure, true, sanctified ministry, "the holy people".

"And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion," (after the purification of the church) "and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning." Isaiah 4:3,4.

"Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken." Isaiah 62:11,12.

What is the Work that is Before this Holy People?

(144,000, Bay Team)

"For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many." Isaiah 66:16.

In the next few verses Isaiah will tell us what happens to those who escape this slaying (those who receive the mark, or seal in their foreheads as recorded in Ezekiel 9:1-11).

"And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel" (144,000) "bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord." Isaiah 66:19,20.

Now we can clearly envisage a great ingathering of souls which will culminate in the establishment of the second brass mountain, the church which will perfectly reflect the image of Jesus. "When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own." Christ's Object Lessons p. 69.

Thus we can see that the Lord will use His pure, true, sanctified ministry, (the bay team, the 144,000 first-fruits) to garner in earth's final harvest, the great multitude of Revelation 7:9, the harvest John saw after he saw the sealing of the 144,000.

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" Rev. 7:9.

The 144,000 are the Bay Team, those who are without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:5). They will eventually become the second brass mountain (the church triumphant).

Being the nucleus of the second brass mountain, they will be "Clad in the armor of Christ's righteousness, the church is to enter upon her final conflict. 'Fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners' (Song of Solomon 6:10), she is to go forth into all the world, conquering and to conquer." Prophets & Kings p. 725.

The Lord Takes The Reins.

"There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world.

God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins in His own hands. The workers will be surprised by the simple means that He will use to bring about and perfect His work of righteousness. Those who are accounted good workers will need to draw nigh to God, they will need the divine touch. They will need to drink more deeply and continuously at the fountain of living water, in order that they may discern God's work at every point." Testimonies to Ministers p. 300.

"Those who have trusted to intellect, genius, or talent will not then stand at the head of rank and file. They did not keep pace with the light. Those who have proved themselves unfaithful will not then be entrusted with the flock.

In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view." Testimonies, Vol. 5 pp. 80,81.

"The end is near, stealing upon us stealthily, imperceptibly, like the noiseless approach of a thief in the night. May the Lord grant that we shall no longer sleep as do others, but that we shall watch and be sober. The truth is soon to triumph gloriously, and all who now choose to be laborers together with God, will triumph with it. The time is short; the night soon cometh when no man can work.-- Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 135. (1909)" Evangelism p. 692.

It is our prayer that the reader of this booklet be among those who will compose or make up the Bay Team, those who will have a part in proclaiming this message to every nation, kindred, tongue and people, under the power of the Holy Spirit.

"Today you are to have your vessel purified, that it may be ready for the heavenly dew, ready for the showers of the latter rain; for the latter rain will come, and the blessing of God will fill every soul that is purified from every defilement.

It is our work today to yield our souls to Christ, that we may be fitted for the time of refreshing from the presence of the Lord--fitted for the baptism of the Holy Spirit...." Evangelism p. 702.

Full Report]http://shepherds-rod.org/basic/reins.html

The fact that you twisted this quote to support some kind of calling out of the Adventist church proves where you come from.

Here is that quote in it's entirety...

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure." {1SM 204.2}

So if the enemy of souls is the one who would claim that we need to change our religion and reorganize a new church then what does that say about the way you used that quote GordonB1?

God has shown me that it says a lot.

Acts 27:23
"For there stood by me this night the angel of God,
whose I am, and whom I serve."

Here Paul could mean he serves the angel of God,
or that he serves the God of the angel.

Bear in mind: Christ is the Angel of the LORD in several passages.
_____________________

I've been interested in Zech 6 for quite a while GLL and I'm still studying it. Do you mind if I share my view?

The three parallel passages that talk about four horses and/or chariots are in Zechariah 1 and 6 and Revelation 6.

In Zechariah 1 the horses are pictured like in Zech 6 as issuing from a valley or ravine between two mountains. They are said to be “in the bottom” and other translations agree they are in a ravine. I agree with Wesley that the brass mountains of Zech 6 represent the same unchangeable Providences of God in human affairs. The horses of Zechariah 1 are the means God used to humble and discipline the Israelites who were taken captive by the Assyrians and then the Jews who were taken captive by the Babylonians. At the time this vision was given the 70 years of captivity of the Jews prophesied by Jeremiah were over and the world was at peace. The four horsemen reported to the Lord that they had done their work, Israel had been punished and now all the world was at rest and peace. Wars no longer ravished the nations.

But Jerusalem was still in ruins. Have a look at Zech 1:11-16 below and see how God is displease with these tools of his wrath because they caused more damage to His inheritance than they ought to have done. The Lord saw it and comforted the returning exiles promising to come to the aid of His people and empower them to rebuild Jerusalem.

In Zechariah 6 the scene of horsemen and chariots shifts from the past to the future. Zechariah 6 parallels and helps explain Revelation 6 which also applies primarily to the future. I'll pick it up there in the next post.

Yes, by all means share more of your thoughts.

Zech. 6, is quite a short yet powerful lesson. As the report shows it's a story of the church (chariots) from the one "brass mountain" (strong Christ filled church--early Pentecostal) to the future church. In between are the different church movements.

The last church (chariot)struggles to go to and fro the earth (proclaim the gospel) but can't due to the corrupt leadership and the Christ filled servants hitched and unable to go anywhere. then the Lord says "get ye hence" which allows the true servants to be freed to proclaim the gospel. No longer hitched as it were to the corrupt leadership. This is yet another symbolic representation of Ezekiel 9 church judgment.

Thanks GLL. What did you think of my comments on the four horses of Zechariah 1?

One of the keys to understanding the four horses/chariots is their sequence, especially the placement of the white and black horses. In the two visions of Zechariah the white horse is last on the first list and third in the second list but first in Revelation 6. In Zechariah's first list there is no black horse. In his second list the black horse is first but in Revelation it is third.

The order helps to define/identify the meaning of the horses. More later. . .

The prophecy of Zechariah 1 and that of Zech. 6 are not necessarily connected prophetically . They are different lessons. For instance, in between these chapters, we see that in Zech. 4, it has a lesson all in itself. This one will be next and we'll go over it. It concerns how God sends His Bible truth (oil) to the laity. It's method and divine order through the human agencies. Specifically how we are to understand God's word from Top --down.

So the first 6 chapters have individual ideas and prophetic symbols to convey separate lessons. Similar to the Revelation. One chapter does not necessarily flow to the next in prophetic time sequence. Also we must never forget that Scripture is not privately interpreted (2 Peter 1:20). If we see a lesson in Scripture that has not be explained by any of God's prophets through time, we must be very cautious in interpreting them.

As brother Houteff proported to bring the Lord's Elijah message, we have to be sure to "investigate " it and if there is light and cannot be controverted, then at once accept it as truth. That is why I presented the Zech. 6 lesson because it showed a lesson concerning the church past and future (as short as it is). The main lesson being that one day soon a separation between God's people will allow His great Loud Cry to begin.

He also explains some on Zech. 1, which I will post. Then you can compare his with yours on Zech. 1.

When we see the bright shining lessons that God reveals to His people through the certain prophecies, we must acknowledge that our prophetess did not have all the light on many revealed prophetic lessons. This is certainly what Jesus had in mind when He said, we need more and should acknowledge truths, that may come even if we might be surprised by the way it comes. Even if we hold it in "contempt" (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.453)

Will comment on your Zech. 1 and add VTH's word on it shortly.

GLL I was looking at the continuity of the first six chapters and it impressed me that the vision starts with the first four horses and continues uninterrupted to the last four horses where it ends suggesting a close connection between them.

Before tackling the significance of the order of the horses in more detail, I want to comment on this text in the KJV:



The KJV gives the idea that the horses are heavenly spirits of some kind. In my view the ESV and the Jewish version, the JPS are more accurate and agree better with the context.


Like the horses in chapter 1, those in chapter 6 and in Rev. 6 are the powers God uses to work His will in the earth. The white horses represent God's people combined with the forces of good but the others, the red and the dappled and bray are political entities. The black is as we might expect - the opposite of the white, that is, the children of disobedience combined with the forces of darkness which reaches its full manifestation in spiritual Babylon.

Thanks for your ideas bro. Mark.

Here are some selective VTH writings on Zech. Chapter 1 to compare with.

"In the vision of Zechariah 1, we note that the "horses" "whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth," have the gift of speech, for "they answered the angel of the Lord...and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth." The obvious import of this symbolism is that these "horses" can talk and that they are serving the Lord in going where He sends them. They therefore can be symbolical only of the Lord's servants, the ministry that is "sent.

Inevitably, then, the symbolism depicts a Movement which goes forth with a message and which, upon finishing its work of going "to and fro through the earth," returns."



Before we go further, does these points make sense so far?

GLL in my view the four horsemen of Zechariah 1:7- 16 has it's parallel in the four horns immediately following in the same chapter. Speaking of the horsemen it says:


It was the horsemen, especially the blood red ones, that brought calamity on Israel, greater than what the Lord intended.

Speaking of the four horns it says:

One more thing before commenting on the sequences of the horses in all three passages. I think the best overall translation of Zechariah 6 is from the ESV. Notice verses 3 and 7 in the ESV below and compare the same verses with the KJV. Whereas the KJV conveys the impression that the fourth chariot is drawn by two different horses, the ESV indicates that the fourth chariot has one kind, dappled, and that the horses of all four chariots are strong. This agrees with the rendering in verse 7 that tells us when the chariots emerge from between the mountains all of them are seen to be strong. They issue from the Divine Providences symbolized by the mountains of brass, and all four are mighty to fulfill His will.

The ESV translation is more reasonable in this case than the KJV because by staying with a single horse type we can better identify what each chariot represents. Inspiration is like science in this regard: the simplest explanation consistent with the facts is the preferred one.

Mark--. "Notice verses 3 and 7 in the ESV below and compare the same verses with the KJV. Whereas the KJV conveys the impression that the fourth chariot is drawn by two different horses, the ESV indicates that the fourth chariot has one kind, dappled, and that the horses of all four chariots are strong."

Yes, that would make the interpretation quite different and skew the intended meaning of the lesson.

Here is the E-Sword version which calls out the words in orig. Hebrew and translates:

Zec 6:3 -- And in the third H7992 chariot H4818 white H3836 horses;H5483 and in the fourth H7243 chariot H4818 grisled H1261 and bay H554 horses.H5483

The words are distinctly different (spotted or grisled-- "Barod" H1261 and then "Red or bay" H554)

Here is a link that may shed more light on Zech. 6:3
[url=BlueLetter Bible ref.]http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1261&t=KJV[/url]

So I would have to disagree with your assertion the ESV is preferred over KJV for Zech. translations.

To Repeat-- "In the vision of Zechariah 1, we note that the "horses" "whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth," have the gift of speech, for "they answered the angel of the Lord...and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth." The obvious import of this symbolism is that these "horses" can talk and that they are serving the Lord in going where He sends them. They therefore can be symbolical only of the Lord's servants, the ministry that is "sent".

Inevitably, then, the symbolism depicts a Movement which goes forth with a message and which, upon finishing its work of going "to and fro through the earth," returns."

Let's follow this interpretation and see how it unfolds further:

"Without clashing with logic, one cannot suppose that this symbolism is prophetically descriptive of the gospel workers who are foreshadowed in Christ's prophecy that "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matt. 24:14.

For after the horses answered "We have walked to and fro through the earth" -- meaning, "We have finished our work," -- the Lord commands them to "Cry yet;" that is, proclaim again! And this command moreover, shows that the Lord was yet to bestow His mercy upon His people, and yet to finish His work of salvation, for He says: "My cities...shall yet be spread abroad; and the Lord shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem. " Zech. 1:17.

Necessarily, therefore, the "horses" here in view depict a Movement on foot, which is organized to proclaim the gospel throughout the earth. The horses' answer, "We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest," reveals that the movement thought its work finished and probation closed.

In other words, it thought that salvation through the gospel had closed and that the preaching of it could no longer make the earth produce converts.

(The subject of the symbolism being the production of spiritual life, it necessarily calls for the salvation of souls not for the production of vegetal or animal life.) Whereas, in fact, the Lord commissioned them to "cry yet," showing them that they were mistaken.

To determine whether this symbolical prophecy points to God's servants of the past, of the present, or of the future, one must consult church history. Its pages record
that the Millerite Movement is the only one which has gone with a message to every Christian mission in the world (The Great Controversy, p. 368), and thought, mistakenly, that in so doing, the last gospel invitation had been sounded to every living creature under heaven, thereby signalizing the close of human probation.

On the contrary, the gospel invitation for this time, instead of then being finished, had just begun, and instead of the Lord's coming then to earth, He went to His heavenly temple!

The peculiar set of circumstances surrounding the Millerite Movement prior to 1844, certifies that it is the one which is depicted in the symbolism of Zechariah 1.

And it should be remembered that the Lord did not on the one hand attach the warning, "Look out, for these horses are false (mistaken) prophets," or on the other hand rebuke the horses or command them to keep silence, but that instead He commanded them that they cry the more. And the angel of the Lord, in confirmation, declares: "These are they whom the Lord hath sent."

John the Baptist preached that Christ was to establish a literal kingdom at His first advent, and though John was mistaken, the Lord said of him: "There hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist." Matt. 11:11.

And in view of the light now shining from the Scripture, anyone can see that those who are continually crying out "Wolf! wolf!" in derision of the 2300-days doctrine, are, wittingly or unwittingly, working against God by attempting to silence His voice. They are doing the bidding of him who is trying to conceal the truth that the next after the Millerite movement must proclaim the gospel

To Many But Not To All." (to be continued)
(Tract 6, p.62-64)

GLL do you see a parallel between the four horses and the four horns in chapter 1? How does the Shepard's Rod and Victor Houteff view the horns?

And what's VH's view of the four horses of Rev 6?

REV 6:

HORSE, BEAST, ASSIGNMENT

White, Lion, Bow + crown given
Red, Calf, Take peace + sword given
Black, Face of a man, Scales (1qt wheat, 3qt barley for a denarius -OW)
Dapple, Flying Eagle, Death + Hades (kill ¼ of the earth, etc, etc)

I'm looking for a relationship (if it exists) between the heavenly beasts, the color of the horses and the unique assignment of each rider.

Thank you

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"GLL do you see a parallel between the four horses and the four horns in chapter 1? How does the Shepard's Rod and Victor Houteff view the horns?"

"And what's VH's view of the four horses of Rev 6?"

***************************************

I really like these questions bro, as it tells me you are searching which really is what we are told to do(Rev. 3:18) if we know we need more truth. Will address those questions this evening.Thanks.

Good observation James. So the readers understand, you got the beast descriptions and their order, lion, calf, man and eagle, from Rev. 4:7. Another ingredient is the fact that the horses also correspond to the first four seals of the seven sealed scroll and that the Lamb has just taken the scroll from the hand of the Father. But I'll wait for GLL to post his replies. Looking forward to that GLL.

"And what's VH's view of the four horses of Rev 6?"

Let's review what VTH said about the chariots and horses--

RED HORSES (First Chariot)

"The consecutive order of the chariots indicates a series of gospel events. " In the first chariot were red horses." That the color red stands for bloodshed, the Spirit of Prophecy bears out: "As we were traveling along, we met a company who also were gazing at the glories of the place. I noticed red as a border on their garments; their crowns were brilliant; their robes were pure white. As we greeted them, I asked Jesus who they were. He said they were MARTYRS that had been slain for Him." Early Writings pp. 18,19.

The red border on the garments of this company being symbolic of martyrdom, obviously, then, the red color of the "horses" denotes the martyred leaders of the church before 538 A.D.

In response to Zechariah's question as to who the horses were and where they were going, the angel answered: "The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country, And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth." Zech. 6:6,7.

"Though the angel's answer discloses the respective directions toward which the black, white, grisled, and bay horses went, It omits to make the slightest mention of the Red Horses, thus riveting the conclusion that the Red Horses were martyred and went nowhere so far as their final destination is concerned. This being clear, our next step, logically, is to identify


BLACK HORSES (Second Chariot)

"And in the second chariot (were) black horses," Universally, the figurative significance of "black" is bondage, So as the martyrdom of the early Christian church was followed by the Dark Ages of religion, from 538 A. D to 1798 A. D., it is evident that the chariot with the black horses represents the church and its leadership during this long prophetic period in ecclesiastical Roman bondage.

This fact is borne out by the angel's explanation of the horses' destination: "The black horses, " he said, " . . .go forth into the north country. " And "the north country" is the Biblical term for ancient Babylon, as is quickly seen from the following Scriptures:

". . .saith the Lord God; . . I will bring. . . Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, . ,from the North." Ezek. 26:7. Again: when the Jews were returning from Babylon to Jerusalem, God spoke through His prophet Zechariah, saying: "Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the North" (Zech 2:6), thus identifying Babylon as the "North Country."

But as we are dealing with the fulfillment of prophecy in the New Testament era, the north country in this connection must be antitypical Babylon---Christianized Rome---where God's people during the New Testament period have gone. This clear-cut truth concerning the second chariot, leads us to the exposition The

THE WHITE HORSES (Third Chariot)

And there were "In the third chariot white horses." Since Black is significant of bondage, then white, being the opposite of black, must denote Liberty. Accordingly, the white horses with their chariot must be symbolical of the church following her 1260 year period of Roman bondage.

Said the angel to Zechariah: "The white go forth after" the Black Horses, to the north country. The white chariot therefore represent a free church, carrying a heaven-born message to the north country shortly after 1798 A. D., in the time of religious liberty, after Protestantism had broken away from Papal Rome. The only such message found on record is that of the Millerite Movement, of which we read:

"To William Miller and his co-laborers it was given to preach the warning in America. This country became the center of the great advent movement....The writings of Miller and his associates were carried to distant lands. Wherever missionaries had penetrated in all the world, were sent the glad tidings of Christ's speedy return." Great Controversy p. 368.

But though "the White Horses" went to the "north country, " the Millerites, or "First Advent Movement," was not in response to the call, "come out of her My people." This is made clear by Miller's own words: "In all my labors....I never had the desire or thought to establish any separate interest from the existing denominations, or to benefit one at the expense of another. I thought to benefit all." Great Controversy p. 375.

The concluding revelation is: "Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted My Spirit in the north country." Zech. 6:8. After the warning message by the Millerite movement had been rejected by the churches, in the fulfillment of the words, "have quieted My Spirit in the north country, "God withdrew His Spirit from them. In evidence of this, "the second Angel" announced: "Babylon is fallen." Rev.14:8.

Babylon at this time experienced only a moral fall. She does not completely fall until the time of the Loud Cry. See Great Controversy pp. 389-390.

The foregoing chain of facts surrounding the first three symbolical "chariots", shows that the series of gospel events which they comprehend terminated with the Millerite movement, in 1844 A.D., And the additional fact that the "white" color of the "horses" also denotes purity, show that the "third chariot" is symbolical of the church which of all the seven churches is the only one that is white, without condemnation---the Philadelphia church (Rev. 3: 7).

The Millerite, or "First Advent Movement," being the only one that never cast out any of its brethren, is consequently the only church which can be represented by the white chariot, and the only one worthy of the name "Philadelphia"---"brotherly love."

Ever true to God, it closed its brief but spotless career in 1844, its appointed destination. Having lived its entire life under the personal supervision of its founder, it was never new-modeled. Thus being without condemnation, as perfectly illustrated by the third "chariot" and its "white horses,"..

GRISLED AND BAY HORSES (Fourth Chariot)

Grisled and The Bay Horses---Double Leadership.

And in the "fourth chariot" were "grisled and bay horses." The anomalous part of this symbolical prophecy is manifestly, that the fourth chariot, unlike the other three, has a double span of horses.

Just as the colors of the preceding horses are significant so the colors of this double team on this last chariot are also significant.

The marginal reference in your Bible will tell you that the Bay horses are a strong team and indeed they must be as Zechariah tells us that they are the team that eventually wins out in their determination to go to and fro through the earth, Zech. 6:6,7.

The color "Bay" is a definite hue or color, easy to be defined, a very common color. As the Bible marginal reference has already told us that the "Bay" horses are a strong team, then we will proceed on to find the significance of the "grisled" colored horses.

A "grisled" color is not a definite hue or color It is an undefined color. In this setting the word "grisled could be synonymous with the word "Laodicea", "neither cold nor hot." Ministry and laity alike are warned that if we continue to remain in a "lukewarm" (grisled) condition that we will be spewed out. "Because you are lukewarm, I must spew you out of My mouth." 7 Bible Commentary p. 963, E. G. White.

The Spirit of Prophecy forewarned us years ago that two parties would be developed in our church. "A new life is coming from heaven and taking possession of all God's people. But divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest." 2 Selected Messages p. 114.

"While the Lord brings into the church those who are truly converted, Satan at the same time brings persons who are not converted into its fellowship. While Christ is sowing the good seed, Satan is sowing the tares. There are two opposing influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of the people of God." Testimonies to Ministers p. 46.

Can we not see clearly the Two Classes of people today in our church as depicted by the grisled and bay team?

In speaking of the ministry (horses), the servant of the Lord counseled us years ago that some of the ministry as well as the laity need to be converted.

"Some ministers, as well as people, need converting. They need to be torn to pieces and made over new. Their work among the churches is worse than lost, and in their present weak, tottering condition, it would be more pleasing to God for them to cease their efforts to help others, and labor with their hands until they are converted. Then they could strengthen their brethren." Testimonies, Vol. 1 p. 37.

The Paradox

Most arresting about the whole symbolism is the paradoxical fact that the grisled went "toward the south country, and the bay went forth, and ...walked to and fro through the earth"! Zech. 6:6,7. The grisled go one way, and the bay, another way, and yet both are pulling the same chariot.

Thus we can see that the "south country" or Egypt, the direction into which the "grisled" team is headed is symbolical of the world. Just as ancient Israel while wandering in the wilderness, wanted to go back to Egypt, so modern Israel is walking in her foot steps today. "The professed followers of Christ are no longer a separate and peculiar people....Daily the church is being converted to the world." Christ's Object Lessons pp. 315,316.

Grisled Team Cut Off

Seeing that the chariot is drawn by both teams, each pulling in a different direction from the other, obviously both cannot win out without breaking it in two, thus leaving it ruined and useless, One pair or the other, therefore, must be cut out of the traces.

And the fact that the bay (the "strong horses"-verse 3, margin) are the ones who eventually will be enabled to "walk to and fro through the earth" while the grisled have attempted to take the chariot toward the south country (Egypt, the world), shows that the bay team during the Loud Cry, (the period of the second brass mountain) are to possess the chariot and to preach "this gospel of the kingdom...in all the-world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matt. 24:14.

What Happens to the Grisled Team?

Since the Spirit of Prophecy tells us that "Only those who have withstood temptation in the strength of the Mighty One will be permitted to act a part in proclaiming it, the Third angel's message when it shall have swelled into the Loud Cry" (R&H Nov. 19, 1908), the question naturally arises, What Happens to the Grisled Team, to those who do not overcome temptation in the strength of the Mighty One?

We found in our studies that when the Judgment for the living commences or just before the Loud Cry begins to be proclaimed that the Lord Himself commissions the five angels with slaughter weapons to go through the city (church) and slay all those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads, men, women and little children perish together. See: Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 211.

In speaking of those who have ministered to others, the Spirit of Prophecy says: "It is with reluctance that the Lord withdraws His presence from those who have been blessed with great light and who have felt the power of the word in ministering to others. They were once His faithful servants, favored with His presence and guidance; but they departed from Him and led others into error, and therefore are brought under the divine displeasure." Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 212.

Thus we can clearly see that the Lord Himself will remove the grisled team .

"Angels keep a faithful record of every man's work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter." Testimonies, Vol. 1 p. 198.

"When trees without fruit are cut down as cumberers of the ground, when multitudes of false brethren are distinguished from the true, then the hidden ones will be revealed to view, and with hosannas range under the banner of Christ. Those who have been timid and self-distrustful will declare themselves openly for Christ and His truth. The most weak and hesitating in the church will be as David--willing to do and dare." Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 81.

The fulfillment of this prophecy will bring into being the Second Brass Mountain, God's purified remnant church.

The hidden ones are brought to view when God purifies His church. They will be the first fruits of the final harvest, the 144,000 (the bay team).

(will address the other question as soon as time allows)

GLL, you've reposted Victor Houteff's view on Zech 6. I was hoping you'd share his view on the horses of Revelation 6.

I agree with VH that there is a connection in Zech 6 between the black horse and Babyon. Whereas VH says it is the church in bondage to Babylon, I view the black horse as Babylon itself because this horse, Babylon is responsible for silencing the voice of the Holy Spirit. We have the same picture in Revelation 11 where the Two Witnesses bare their testimony to Babylon/Egypt for 3.5 years but are slain and silenced:

So the picture in Zech 6 is that Babylon becomes a world ruler (still future when the mortal wound is fully healed) but Christ, the rider on the white horse challenges the dominion of Babylon. The white horse follows or pursues the black horse into the north. Outwardly the challenge fails because Babylon is apparently successful in silencing the voice of the Holy Spirit. The saints are not allowed to buy or sell and finally condemned to death. At the death sentence of the highest earthly authorities it seems as though Babylon wins and the Two Witnesses will be forever silenced but this is the prelude to the greatest deliverance of God's people ever recorded.

Mark-"GLL, you've reposted Victor Houteff's view on Zech 6. I was hoping you'd share his view on the horses of Revelation 6."

Yes, I did. The reason is because I wanted to make sure we have a clear view of Zech 6 lesson before comparing that to Rev. 6 horses. Sorry, should have made that clear. Hope to get to the other question and points shortly.

If you look at the four seals broadly, it becomes immediately obvious that nothing good is happening at all. From the first to the last, all the riders ride out to conquer. The one difference is the first rider: he rides out with a bow with no arrows and a crown on his head. The rest are clearly following after him in judgement by sword (No.2), famine (No.3) and pestilence (No.4, i.e. by sword, hunger, "death" which is disease, and beasts).

Finally, the fifth seal reveals the trouble which the children of God had experienced. They cry out like Abel, but like Abel are told to wait a little longer.

Somehow, these five seals seem to suggest the preaching of the gospel accompanied by trials, tribulations and judgement in the world, times of turmoil in which the saints get caught up and have to endure sorrow and pain. Viewed broadly, that is their meaning.

It takes a while to appreciate the symbolism, not minutely as the meaning of color or object but more like, taken together, what is the trend of progression. I realized that this morning.

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The first white horse in Rev. 6:2 is explained as follows. As you read this detailed explanation, the facts dis-prove our long time held denomination view that this horse represents a time in the Christian dispensation. The points raised and clarity should make us all consider that God has truth revealed in ways that we should acknowledge, even as it causes new ideas and views of old ideas and shortcomings.

Question:
"What Biblical proof have you for placing as you do the
seals of Revelation, chapters four to seven and the first part of the eighth? Why make them span the entire world's history, when the Seventh-day Adventist denomination has been teaching for years that they begin after the crucifixion?"

Answer:
The questioner has a perfect right to ask for Biblical proof of our interpretations of the Scriptures, but he must remember that our rights are as good as his. Hence, before answering his questions, we would like to ask him to give us but one Scripture as the basis upon which he can establish that the seals span the Christian era only.


Our being as well informed as the questioner on all the doctrines which the denomination teaches, and of the proofs upon which they are based, we are free to say that the strongest and the only foundation upon which the denominational interpretation stands is grounded upon the presumptuous idea that the white horse and he that sat on him, going forth conquering and to conquer (Rev. 6:2), represents the early Christian church in her best spiritual condition.

This position is assumed upon the unmitigated presumption that the color of the horse (white) must represent the purity of the early church, and that the words, "conquering and to conquer," stand for her rapid growth after Pentecost.

We agree that "white" stands for purity, and that "conquering and to conquer" could represent the growth of the church, but what proof would that be if such an idea is contradicted by all other truth?

For example, we call the reader's attention to the fact that when John was about to be shown in vision the events in the seven seals, it was about sixty-five years after the Pentecost and in the period when the church was already declining from her spiritual condition.

The voice which he heard said to him: "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" (Rev. 4:1); that is, the event which he was to be shown was to transpire in the future, "hereafter," from the time John had the vision.

Now let us take notice of the event he saw. Says John: "I was in the Spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the back side, sealed with seven seals. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much,...and one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." (Rev. 4:2; 5:1,3-5.)

The event of which John prophesied was to transpire in the future from John's time instead of having already taken place.

Hence, the idea that the white horse with its rider represents the rider in her purity after the Pentecost is only a presumption.

Moreover, it is taught that the book with the seven seals is the book of "Daniel and Revelation," and that those who interpreted the seals are the ones who opened the book, whereas, a "strong angel proclaimed with a loud voice," that "no man in heaven, nor in the earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon."

Consequently, we would like to ask the questioner how could the men who interpreted the seals open the book if they could not even "look thereon"? Still further, whoever heard that the church could be symbolized by a man riding on a horse!

Furthermore, those who are fighting against the sealing message on the pretext that it contradicts the Spirit of Prophecy have themselves altogether closed their eyes to the voice of the Spirit of Prophecy by a flat contradiction of it, for they claim that the book with the seven seals is the book of "Daniel and Revelation," whereas, the Spirit of Prophecy, in perfect harmony with "The Shepherd's Rod," says: "Thus the Jewish leaders made their choice. Their decision was registered in the book which John saw in the hand of Him that sat upon the throne, the book which no man could open. In all its vindictiveness this decision will appear before them in the day when this book is unsealed by the Lion of the Tribe of Judah." -- "Christ's Object Lessons," p. 294.

The above quoted passage shows that this book contains the names and record of those who profess to be the people of God. Then, how could it be the book of "Daniel and The Revelation"?

We would not take longer in disproving the former interpretation of the seals, but we shall briefly prove the reason why the seals cover the entire history of the human race.

One of the proofs that the seals include the entire world's history is in the fact that the book with the seven seals is "The book of life," which contains the record of God's professed people, and also in the fact that it was to be opened in the day of judgment. Hence, it proves that in 1844, when the judgment began, Christ opened the book before the throng that surrounded the throne, and this being the Lamb's book of Life (which no one but the Lamb could open), containing the record of the people from Adam's time and on, it is obvious that the seven seals, which were broken at the beginning of the judgment, contain the entire history of the human race, divided into seven periods, which sealed the book up to the day of judgment. See our exposition on the seals in "The Shepherd's Rod," Vol. 2, pp. 194-221.

(Symbolic Code, Vol. 2, no.7-8. page 8-10)

First of all, neither EGW nor VH ought to have taken it upon themselves to supply meaning where meaning was already given. And meaning was already given. Jesus himself told John, "Come up here (in heaven), and I will show you things which must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1) Notice he said, "I will show you ..." He did not say "tell" but "show".

Secondly, the book was an audio-visual revelation of things pertaining to the Kingdom of God on earth, i.e. of the Christian era; as Jesus said, "I will show you things which must take place after this." Therefore, for every seal opened, one of the beasts said, "COME AND SEE ...". There is no record of anyone saying so for the fifth, sixth and seventh time, but John did say, "... And I saw ..."

The first five seals, at least, therefore pertain to the fall of Jerusalem, the horses indicating the army of God (first in salvation, through the Christian martyrs, and then in judgment, through the Jewish Zealots and Roman army). The third seal depicted the famine that plagued Jerusalem under the siege of Titus. The fourth, the army of Titus himself laying waste to the Jews trying to escape the besieged city. The fifth seal depicted the believers of all ages crying out to God, as it were, for vengeance against the sons of men who, in their zeal for "Jerusalem" brutally cut down any believer calling attention to Christ and prophesying of the city's doom.

We can be confident of this because the book needed a judge of men. "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals." (Rev. 4:5) Only Jesus Christ was of men yet above every man and therefore equipped to be the judge of man. Which is the reason John wept. Caught up in the moment, he saw no Saviour, until the Lamb arrived from the earth into heaven to sit on the Throne of God.

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James, the "I will show you things which must take place after this" statement appears in Rev 4:1, right after the message to the seven churches and immediately after the message to the church of Laodicea, the people judged. According to Daniel 7:10 the books of judgment are opened when the Son of Man is presented before the Ancient of Days.

Adventism teaches that happened in 1844 and I believe it did for those who accepted the third angel's message. But Daniel 7:10 and Revelation 6 apply especially to the future when all the world is arraigned before the bar of God at the investigative judgment of the living. Daniel 7 and Revelation 4 and 5 show the preparation going on now in heaven for this greatest of events. To many this will be an overwhelming surprise.

The sealed book in the right hand of the One seated on the throne in Revelation 5 is the same book IMO that Daniel was told to seal up until the time of the end. Daniel 12:4. 1798 is the common understanding in Adventism as the start of the time of the end but if you take the statement introducing the vision of Rev. 4 and 5 literally, (that the book is unsealed "after this" referring back to the seven churches,) the unsealing of the books of judgment occurs during the final phase of the final church, Laodicea, the people judged.

Then SDA hold to a false doctrine.

First John sees Christ in the midst of the seven candlesticks (where he receives detailed messages for the Church) and then he sees Christ ascend into heaven. That ascension of the Lamb to sit at the right hand of God was reported in Acts 1. There the Lamb is pictured as having seven horns and eyes, representative of the Spirit sent into the world as Christ himself promised. We know that to have begun on the day of Pentecost. See Acts 2.

Therefore, the seven seals begin thereafter.

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The time of the end, according to Jesus Christ was after the day of Pentecost and refers to the time of the end of the Levitical Priesthood and the judgement of Jerusalem culminating in 70AD. Jesus said, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand) ... " (Mat. 24:15) Such was the time when the prophecies of Daniel were understood.

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James, the apostles believed the end would not come until the great falling away and revealing of the man of sin had occurred. They viewed that event, future to them, as signalling the time of the end. They also looked forward to the final out pouring of the Holy Spirit at the latter rain.

It makes sense doesn't it that if the final demonstration of Satan's power through spiritual Babylon is future, that God will in mercy give fair warning through His Spirit? This final gospel warning and invitation is symbolized by the three angels in Rev 14. So far they have been muted because of the Laodicean condition of the church but the testimony of the True Witness will not return void. It will accomplish it's work. Laodicea will be judged by the truth of this Witness and the messages of the three angels will be proclaimed in the latter rain power of Elijah. The white horse of Revelation 6 is the same as the white horse of Revelation 19 and parallels the messages of Revelation 14. This horse is called forth by the first beast, the one resembling a lion, because the rider on this horse is the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

The "man of sin" spoken of by Paul is the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Jesus in Matthew. Jesus also described the falling away saying, "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand." (Mat. 24:24) Jude speaks of it this way, "For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." (v.4)

That falling away led to the burning of the Christians in Rome and the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Don't you read the Bible and the history books anymore?

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James Christ says: "If any man wills to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God" and if he obeys the truth it will "set you free".

The four beasts are the four covering cherubs that are the living throne of God. Rev. 4:7-11. The psalms say God is enthroned between the cherubim and also that God inhabits the praises of Israel. Ps 80:1, 99:1, 22:3. This is the same picture in Revelation 4. The four living creatures lead the praises of the angels and men. They ascribe holiness and honor to God and their praise strikes an answering cord in the redeemed represented by the 24 elders. Heaven and earth resonate with their anthems. As we join in the rapturous atmosphere of heaven by faith, we will become prepared to endure the glory and unfolding Providences of God at the opening of the book.

Hi bro. Mark, sorry for the delay in getting back with some answers for you. I've marked them down and will address each.

"And what's VH's view of the four horses of Rev 6?"

As already posted, VTH showed how the standard SDA teachings of Rev. 6 (horses and symbols) cannot be showing the prophetic events of the Christian dispensation. It goes back to the beginning of the earth's history. That being understood we can now get a summary of what the 4 horses symbolize.

1) White horse -- "..the white horse, the first in the symbolism identifies the world's first state of being -- pure and sinless with a Divinely-crowned ruler (rider), who at first had no goal but to subdue the earth and to fill it with eternal God-like beings."

"The rider and his white horse (God's crowned king, Adam, and his peaceful government, his white horse) are, therefore, the first to be weighed on the balances, the first to come in review before the Judicial Throne.

Hence, we are again reminded that this character-searching event, the Judgment, is the very thing that was to take place "hereafter" from John's time, years after the first century of the Christian era."

2) Red Horse -- "Since the white horse and its crowned rider represent the first period of mankind, then the red horse and its murderous peace-destroying rider, must represent the next period, the period in which murder and war for the first time broke out."

"..the historical truth that wars for the first time broke out after the confusion of tongues, shows that the red horse and, in particular, its rider, depict the period in which the tower of Babel was annihilated, and in which peace gave way to wars.

Moreover, another anchor to the proof, is the phrase, "To take peace from the earth," for it obviously implies that there was peace before that time."

3) Black Horse -- "As we have seen, the white horse represents man's government of earth while still pure and free. And now, since black is the opposite of white, the black horse must represent man's government in spiritual darkness and captivity -- a condition opposite to that represented by the white horse."

"This is confirmed by history: Even as far back as Abraham's time, only about three hundred years after the flood, idol worship had overwhelmed the inhabitants of the world. It was then that Abraham left Haran, his father's house and country (Gen. 11:31; 12:1). His descendants, Israel, at length became slaves to Pharaoh, and afterwards to Nebuchadnezzer, King of Babylon."

4) Pale Horse -- "Since the pale horse falls in the same period as does the non-descript beast of Daniel 7:7, 8 (see pp. 16, 17), the period subsequent to the third seal, they consequently resemble each other."

"Indeed, its color being faint, wanting, not having a specific or definite hue or character, the horse is in the last analysis non-descript, too. Very evidently the rider of the pale horse is synonymous with him who spake against the Most High, with him who was to wear out the saints, "and think to change times and laws." Dan. 7:25.

"He is seen to represent the climax of idolatry. The ancient Roman government is fittingly symbolized by the non-descript beast, because in truth its administration was an admixture of civil and religious laws, of Pagan and Christian doctrines. No one could actually tell whether the Roman government was Pagan or Christian, Jewish or Gentile."

"The rider's name, "death," also perfectly fits the then persecuting spirit and cruelties of both the Jews and the Romans. History and prophecy alike confirm that the Roman subversive power "devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet." Dan. 7:19.

(Taken from Tract 15, p.39-50)

This is just a synopsis of the Rev. 6 horses. We can see that although "horses" are used in both Zech. 6 and Rev. 6 , the symbolism is different and the lessons as well.
We do however notice that in both symbolisms,

we find that --

Red coloring of the horses represent --bloodshed.

Black represents bondage/slavery.

White represents liberty/freedom.

Pale/grisled represents undefined color or more understood- lack of purity or clear definition.

Next we'll look at the horns question.

The Revelation is too hard for you, I suspect. Let's step back a bit and consider Humpty Dumpty instead. What do you think the nursery rhyme really means? Must it really take more than ALL the king's horses and ALL the king's men to put Humpty Dumpty together again? It doesn't add up now, does it? There's obviously a deeper meaning. What do you think?

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"GLL do you see a parallel between the four horses and the four horns in chapter 1? How does the Shepard's Rod and Victor Houteff view the horns?"

We begin with brother Houteff's explanations then add some comments at end.

"Moreover, the Scriptures plainly point out that
--THE GENTILES WILL BE DRIVEN OUT OF THE HOLY LAND.

"Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns. And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem. And the Lord shewed me four carpenters.

Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it." Zech. 1:18-21.

Here we see, first, that the heathen powers in their scattering of God's ancient people, are represented as four horns, and later, in their casting out the Gentiles, they are represented as four carpenters. Thus it is predicted also pictorially that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, [only] until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Luke 21:24.(Tract 12, p.49-50)

NOTE- as Zechariah speaks of the temple to be built in the future it is important that we lay some foundation for the horns.

"In erecting the second temple, Haggai and Zechariah prophesied and strengthened the hands of the people by the Word of God. The writings of both prophets bear evidence in every line, that the perfect fulfillment of their prophecy is to be realized in the last days of this world s history.

As they have interwoven these predictions with the construction of the second temple, it is obvious that the literal model of the stately edifice has a spiritual meaning for the church in the closing work of the gospel.

Zechariah, looking forward to the time of the spiritual temple (the last section of the church) and its construction, says: "Behold the man whose name is the branch and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall build the temple of the Lord, and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you." (Zech. 6:12, 13, 15.)

"He shall bear the glory." To Christ belongs the glory of redemption for the fallen race. "Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood.... to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever." (Rev. 1:5, 6.) He "shall sit and rule upon His throne, and He shall be a Priest upon His throne." (Zech. 6:13.)

"Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead and the Prince of the kings of the earth." (Rev. 1:5.) "He shall be a Priest upon His throne." It is obvious that the time predicted is some time after the crucifixion and before probation has closed; for He is "a priest."

Christ, "the branch," "shall grow up out of His place"; that is, He was to spring up from the Jewish nation, "and He shall build the temple of the Lord." Therefore, the temple that "He shall build" could not have been the literal temple in ancient Jerusalem, for it was a temple that He is to build after His birth.

"And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord." As this was untrue with the literal temple, the words must apply to the anti-typical one. At that time the prophet says: "And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be My people." (Zech. 2:11.)

"In that day;" that is, in the time of the "Loud Cry," a great multitude shall be converted to the church. In Zechariah 13:8, it is stated that one-third of the inhabitants will "come," and they are the ones who shall "build in the temple of the Lord," of which the literal one was a type.

Zechariah then saw the powers that had "scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem" (the type, also the anti-type), symbolized by "four horns." Immediately afterward he saw the same horns as four carpenters (read Zech. 1:18-21), representing the agencies used by the Lord in restoring His people and the house of His worship, both in type and anti-type; that is, the Gentiles who scattered the church shall also come and build the same.(Shep. Rod, vol. 2, p.259-260)

So to answer your question there does not appear a direct connection of the horses of Zech. 6 and the horns of Zech. 1. These are two different prophecies with different lessons.

The new testament explains many things from the old Testament.

Hebrews talks much about Christ sitting on the right hand of God's throne. Christ as our High Priest in a temple not made with human hands.

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

The New Testament also speaks of the earthly counterpart --

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.



"And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord."

Many times the New Testament explains this:

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross,
2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,


This became a reality when Christ came.
Paul and the other apostles were preaching this far and wide in the first century AD. The message spread across the face of the earth.

So indeed the spiritual "temple" is built up of "lively stones" consisting of both Jews and Gentiles and people from all nations who have accepted Christ the corner stone.

1/3 percent?

An interesting observation:


So 32 percent -- that's 1/3 of earths population have heard and profess Christianity --

Of course, just like the Jews, it's not enough to "belong" to the race, or belong to a group that calls itself Christians, it must be a relationship with Christ --

That's why there is an Investigative judgment -- to verify who is clothed in the white robe of Christ's righteousness (see Rev. 3:5) and the great gathering occurs at the second coming when the angels go forth to the four winds (directions) of the earth and gather the elect.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Bro. Mark, let me know if I missed any of your questions. if not then I'd like to start a new thread on Zech.4 (Golden bowl) and it's symbolic meaning.

As mentioned Zechariah's lessons are similar to Revelation, in that they break away during the chapters to give separate lessons and not necessarily sequential in their story line and time line. As we'll see Chapter four's lesson is very different as to meaning than chapter 6 lesson. And chapter one's lesson is not connected to chapter six's in most respects.