Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter?

I am going to begin this thread with a question.

Why Does the Nature of Christ Matter?

Perhaps a better first question is, what is the Nature of Christ?

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16.

"The incarnation of Christ is the mystery of all mysteries." {FLB 48.2}

Our finite minds will never fully understand how divinity and humanity was one yet separate in Christ's nature while He lived on earth. People have argued this for 2000 years, Wars have even been fought over it.

What is important is to look to Christ -- depending upon Him for our salvation, surrendering ourselves to Him, seeking to do His will. Reflecting on His life, His character and by His grace to be more and more like Him.

I believe one of the reasons the nature of Christ is so important is; How can such a being even relate to me?!? How can He understand what I am going through or feeling? Why would God even care?

I believe it is very important to God that we understand Him on this level.

Well, your 2nd first question does not have an answer that satisfies everyone. And we have inspired statements that suggest we won't get the answer this side of eternity.

But I think there's consensus on your first first question. One's position in the nature of Christ might not be so critical in and of itself, but it is strongly related to one's understanding of sin and the plan of salvation. If we can understand what God considers sin and personally experience His plan to save us from it, we will have plenty of time to study Christ's nature under the Tree of Life.

In case my question wasn't clear enough, I renamed this thread and am restating my questions a little different.

Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter?

Perhaps a better first question is, what is the Human Nature of Christ?

I don't know whether or not my restated questions will bring a different response, but I will wait and see.

Well, I guess the best answer to your second first question is;

1) Physically; The nature of Adam's sons and daughters.
2) Morally; Adam before the fall.

Another reason the nature of Christ matters is it demonstrates what God was willing to go through to save fallen mankind.

Could it be:

1) Physically; The nature of Adam and Eve after the Fall?

I found your #2 an interesting answer.

The plan of salvation was dependent upon a human being undoing the sin of Adam. And the plan of salvation was designed specifically to save deceived human beings and not the angels that willfully chose to leave their first estate. Thus Christ's humanity made salvation possible for humans and excluded the possibility of saving fallen angels.

But let's not forget that some angels initially followed Satan, then turned back to God. It seems redemption was available to angels at some point.

I agree with that. I would also add that intellectually - the third aspect of human nature - He was fallen like Cain.

Good question Daryl. This is a critical and inexhaustible subject. We could write book after book because as Ellen White says; "The incarnation of Christ is the mystery of all mysteries." {FLB 48.2}. She also says:


The most important reason to study the humanity of the Lord it that when we understand how Christ overcame as a man we'll have the tools to do the same. This is not optional. The remnant "keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" Rev 14:12. So the remnant has to understand the faith of Jesus, how He overcame by faith in the Father and live it.

The last part of the chapter “Calvary” in the DA describes the final victory of Christ on the cross. She describes how, after being nailed to the cross it was lifted and thrust into place. Christ suffered in agony but his face was serene and full of love. As the torture intensified He was finally enshrouded in darkness for the final hours as He drank the last dregs. Throughout this ordeal He relied on the former tokens of His Father's love. This sustained Him. Although feeling completely forsaken, He clung to the memory of the Father's justice, mercy and love. His victory consisted in riding through this storm until every drop of His will was in submission to the Father so that no matter what happened, including eternal separation, His trust was unbroken. When He reached that point of faith and trust – at the cost of a broken heart - His sense of forsakenness left him and then John says “knowing all things were now accomplished” he asked for a drink. It's as though He knew His heart was already physically torn but that the liquid would complete the final rending, and after receiving the vinegar on a sprig of hyssop, He cried with a loud voice saying “It is finished. Father into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Luke 23:46 and John 19:30.

After probation for angels ended and they were cast out of heaven there was no turning back. And that was before Satan knowingly deceived Adam and Eve after they had been told that to eat from the tree of good and evil would result in death.

Wouldn't these circumstances have a bearing on the situation?

I think so. But here's the situation I see, in chronological order:
Satan rebelled against God
Some of the angels followed Satan
Some of those angels turned back to God
Satan was kicked out of heaven
Satan deceived man
God became a man
Satan killed God
The angels of heaven were finally fully convinced that Satan was incorrigible

Many thousands of years are spanned in that summary. Somewhere in there is a time when Jesus saved angels. But that salvation did not answer all the questions the angels had.

Christ's incarnation answers everything such that sin will not arise again.

What questions did the angels have?

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I agree with that.

It is amazing to think of the choices Cain made after God reasoned with him.

I have always had a harder time with the intellectual issue with Christ. But, I do believe the intellect has fallen in fallen human beings, and so the same with Christ.

Yet, Christ was perfectly committed to the Father and never sinned in any thought, desire or deed.

They are questions at the heart of the Great Controversy. Is Lucifer all that bad? Is God as good as He claims to be?

And the Biblical evidence for this is?

Christ came to this world to receive what was his, not to prove that the devil is the worse being that will ever exist. However, he came to his own, and his own received him not; and so he died. Nevertheless, God (who is merciful and just), gave him all things because he was faithful always.

"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house, bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory." (Heb. 3:1-6)

Because we are Christ's house, he came to claim what was rightfully his. That's the Biblical reason for the Incarnation; but some have invented vain convoluted ideas over which many are made to stumble.

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Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10) That may have more facets than is revealed by the "taking back what's mine" model.

Do you believe in the Great Controversy motif?

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"Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10)" = "Because we are Christ's house, he came to claim what was rightfully his. (Heb. 3:1-6)" Of this the prophets of old spoke, e.g. Micah (4:8 and 5:2)


That GRACE spoken of by Peter refers to our redemption and renewed hope (i.e. SALVATION) freely given to us by reason of Christ's INCARNATION. The "human nature of Christ matters" therefore because he is the second Adam, the one who overcame, the one through whom we may enter into eternal life. That's the Biblical reason.

There is simply no need to add to the word of God, or to invent motifs and scenarios or meditate on wild speculations concerning that which has been revealed in the Holy Bible.

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You may believe that what you see is all there is to see, but others have seen evidence that the plan of salvation encompasses more than man's redemption, possibly even involving angels.

For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. - I Corinthians 4:9

To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. - I Peter 1:12

Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is a possibility, remote though it may be, that there is something in the Bible that you don't fully understand.

The entire human race (good and bad) has always been a spectacle to the world. As Nebuchadnezzar saw, "The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men." (Dan. 4:17) The holy watchers are the angels of God.


The angels of God love us as much as God does. Are they not His ministering spirits sent for our sake?

But you have not provided any Biblical evidence for your speculations: "questions that the angels have, or for the salvation of angels".

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"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deut. 29:29)

Wasn't it Eve who went after the way of the serpent and enticed Adam with the promise of knowing more than was revealed to them, all from dubious sources?

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A spectacle not only to the world and to men, but also to angels.

Why would angels desire to look into the things of the gospel?
If they have never had any questions?

It's because the great controversy is a cosmic conflict, that involves far more than us.

That war began in heaven where sin first appeared in the heart of the covering cherub (angel) called Lucifer, who spread his doubts about God among the angels, bringing confusion and actually convincing 1/3 of them to follow him, and rebel against God.





Rev. 12: 7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him

Isaiah 14:12-14 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’

Ezekiel 28:12-17 “You were the signet of perfection,full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared.
You were an anointed covering cherub. I placed you;you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.
In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

2 peter 2:4 God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.



Obviously angels had to make a choice.
Do you think they had questions?

1 Peter 1:12 was quoted. And this verse clearly mentions what "angels desire to look into".

So, the Bible doesn't give the exact questions the angels have, but, it does tell us something about the issues the angels wish to look into.

1 Pet. 1:9-12 says:

"Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Therefore, according to Peter, the angels desire to look into THINGS, i.e.:

1. The sufferings of Christ, and
2. The glory that should follow; in other words, our repentance unto salvation.

The angels of God love us as much as God does. Jesus himself said so. "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." (Luke 15:10) The Biblical reason for the human nature of Christ is the gift of eternal life to anyone who would believe. (John 3:16)

Therefore then, there is simply no need to add to the word of God, or to invent motifs and scenarios or meditate on wild speculations concerning that which has been revealed in the Holy Bible.

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The angels of God love us as much as God does. See Luke 15:10, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

There is simply no need to add to the word of God, or to invent motifs and scenarios or meditate on wild speculations concerning that which has been revealed in the Holy Bible."

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I'm not.

But James, who is making wild speculations and adding to God's Word???

Is saying that angels love us as much as God loves us, "wild speculations" and "adding to God's Word"?
The Bible doesn't say that angels love us as much as God loves us.

GOD'S LOVE IS GREATER

God is love (1 John 4:16)-- His love transcends all love.

Angels are not God, and while God's angels do have a genuine love and concern for people, ministering to them and rejoicing when a person accepts Christ, that does not mean they love us as much as God.

We love our children, ministering to them, and seeking their wellbeing, sacrificing and giving of ourselves for their good. Rejoicing when they do good, sorrowing when things aren't so good for them. Yet, our love falls far short of God's love.
Knowing this, gives assurance when we worry and pray for the well being of our children, for we can trust them in God's hands knowing His love is far greater than ours.

A created being's love is not as great as God's love.
God's love is greater than any angel, principality or power.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


THE ANGELS

There is plenty of Biblical record (as I quoted earlier) showing that angels are rational beings who were faced with a decision. Some let their doubts lead them to rebel against God, while others pushed doubts aside and took their stand on God's side.

What happened on Calvary showed God's great love -- a love we can all depend on.
It was at Calvary that Satan was utterly discredited and unveiled as the murderer of God Himself!

Satan was/is a master in insinuating doubt and false accusations against God.
Gen. 3 shows his tactics as he throws doubts in Eve's mind --
"Did God really say.....
"It's not really true what God said-- you won't surely die...God is holding you back from becoming a god in your own right.

Even when addressing Christ in the wilderness, satan's strategy was trying to place thoughts of doubt in Christ's mind.
God had just announced "This is my beloved Son, hear ye Him" at the baptism.
Satan comes trying to plant doubt -- "IF you are the Son of God... do you really believe that, then show it by turning that stone into bread...

He took 1/3 of heaven's angels with him -- he did it by planting doubts about God in their minds.

Satan was allowed to show his supposedly better government.
This planet full of sin and rebellion is the result.
By observing the contrast between Satan and his "I will ascend" above God complex, (see Isaiah 14) with Christ who was equal to God but lowered Himself even to the death on a cross to save humanity (Phil. 2) any remaining doubts were forever removed from the angelic host.

There is no question whatsoever in the minds of God's angels anymore having witnessed the great contrast -- they know God is love, and His government is based on His law of love.

Now it's just us humans that have to be brought to that point.
Do we still have doubts that God is love, do we still have nagging thoughts that His law is restricting our advancement?



There is a war going on -- and it's a war for the mind.
That war was fought in heaven (Rev. 12) for the minds of the angels, and is being fought on earth for the minds of human beings.

When our minds grasp the love and righteousness of God, our hearts and actions will follow --

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."