Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/08/15 11:53 AM
Blessings everyone,
I have noticed some mentioning of the personation of Christ by Satan. This is an event that is rarely spoken of anymore. At least, not as SDA's believe it.
It is important to remember when talking about these seven heads that the eighth is of the original seven. The eighth simply is one of the seven reining again.
So then, where does the personation of Christ fit in?
4SP 440.3; The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction reaches its culmination in the time of trouble. God’s long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected his mercy, despised his love, and trampled upon his law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation, and the Lord withdraws his protection, and leaves them to the mercy of the leader they have chosen. (bold emphasis mine)
First of all, to be clear, Satan's personation of Christ takes place after the close of probation. As we continue in 4SP, we will see this.
4SP 442.1; As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will attempt to personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour’s advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. (bold emphasis mine)
It seems Satan just shows up on the earth! There isn't any mention of how he gets here. He is just seen in many places on the earth.
4SP 443.1; But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image,—the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.
We are to stand firm on the Word of God, the Bible. Our love for God and faith in His Word is our only safeguard.
TA 274.1; Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. (bold emphasis mine)
In the end, the beast power and the power of apostate protestantism won't be enough. Satan sees his is going to lose his case and Babylon won't be set up over all the world.
So, Satan personates Christ to finally get all the world wondering after the beast and bringing Babylon to world dominance. It is through spiritualism that Satan finally gets the kingdom he wants. While deceiving the world that he is Christ, he will proclaim to the world that the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday and that seventh day Sabbath keepers are all wrong.
But, in all this, we must remember that probation is closed so the Sanctuary service in Heaven has come to its end. With this being the case, Satan and his evil angels are being bound by the "fit man" Jesus and Satan and his angels are losing their power.
With the loss of spiritualism, apostate protestantism will turn on the beast and eat her flesh and burn her with fire. Babylon will have fallen for the last time.
But, what will that look like when Satan and his angels are bound to this earth and lose their power and majesty?
Posted By: Mountain Man
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/08/15 06:27 PM
The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image,—the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.
"Shall be" is future tense, right. So, in context, the plagues are future. They haven't started falling yet. Thus, the clear implication is Satan's personation of Christ begins before the out pouring of the plagues, before the close of probation. Which makes sense. Satan's personation of Christ is the ultimate test. This test must happen before probation closes, before Jesus ceases His mediation, before everyone makes their final, irrevocable decision for or against the Seal of God.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/09/15 02:35 AM
The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image,—the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.
"Shall be" is future tense, right. So, in context, the plagues are future. They haven't started falling yet. Thus, the clear implication is Satan's personation of Christ begins before the out pouring of the plagues, before the close of probation. Which makes sense. Satan's personation of Christ is the ultimate test. This test must happen before probation closes, before Jesus ceases His mediation, before everyone makes their final, irrevocable decision for or against the Seal of God.
Excellent response MM,
I have wondered my self about this point. Yet, in 4SP and GC88 the mentioning of the personation of Christ by Satan is always after the close of probation. The context in both these cases from Sister White's writings sure sounds like Satan's ultimate deception is after the close of probation.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/09/15 02:38 AM
Blessings MM,
I wrote;
"But, what will that look like when Satan and his angels are bound to this earth and lose their power and majesty?"
Have you thought about this at all?
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/09/15 07:10 AM
Also MM, the plagues may not fall until after Satan personates Christ's Second Coming? When do you believe the close of probation takes place?
There is time from the close of probation until the plagues fall.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/09/15 07:39 AM
Blessings MM,
Let me share this with you;
Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints. But before their decree bring or bear fruit, the saints will be delivered by the Voice of God. Then I saw that Jesus’ work in the sanctuary will soon be finished. And after His work there is finished, He will come to the door of the first apartment, and confess the sins of Israel upon the head of the Scape Goat. Then He will put on the garments of vengeance. Then the plagues will come upon the wicked, and they do not come till Jesus puts on that garment, and takes His place upon the great white cloud. Then while the plagues are falling, the Scape Goat is being led away. He makes a mighty struggle to escape, but he is held fast by the hand that leads him. If he should effect his escape, Israel would lose their lives. I saw that it would take time to lead away the Scape Goat into the land of forgetfulness after the sins were put on his head. {SpM 2.1} (bold emphasis mine)
According to this statement by Sister White, the plagues are already falling before Satan and his evil angels are bound to this earth. At this point, I believe probation has already closed.
What do you believe?
Posted By: His child
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 09/12/15 04:03 PM
The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image,—the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.
"Shall be" is future tense, right. So, in context, the plagues are future. They haven't started falling yet. Thus, the clear implication is Satan's personation of Christ begins before the out pouring of the plagues, before the close of probation. Which makes sense. Satan's personation of Christ is the ultimate test. This test must happen before probation closes, before Jesus ceases His mediation, before everyone makes their final, irrevocable decision for or against the Seal of God.
As I read it we have arrived at the time that was once future:
“The Spirit of God is gradually but surely being withdrawn from the earth. Plagues and judgments are already falling upon the despisers of the grace of God. The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces, and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.” (9T 11)
"The plagues and judgments that are already falling upon the despisers of the grace of God will climax in the seven last plagues that fall “upon the men which had the mark of the beast and upon them which worshipped his image” (16:2; see v. 9 also). The seven last plagues will climax while the Mark of the Beast is being enforced. But because the frog spirits are sequenced in Revelation 16 after the sixth plague, they are not expected at this time. Yet as ancient Babylon had two kings when Cyrus dried up the Euphrates so that he could enter it, papal-Babylon now has two popes while ISIS is drying up the waters, people (17:15) that oppose its agenda along the Euphrates River basin in preparation for Christ’s Appearing." (America, the Obama Nation p. 20)
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 11/21/15 04:49 PM
I suppose Jesus waiting to allow Satan to personate His coming until after probation closes would serve to prevent the delusion from being too much for the translation generation. Time will tell.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,
if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
It is not possible once we are sealed.
Sister White is clear that God's people will not be misled by the deception of Satan in personating the Second Coming of Jesus.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/01/16 09:38 PM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/03/16 04:03 AM
Before --
His impersonation extends over a period of time, since he will be on earth for awhile pretending to be Christ. Thus it will cover time both before and after the close of probation. But the initial part takes place BEFORE probation closes as it is the last and crowning deception to wean people away from the true SAVIOR. During this time the Sunday laws will be cranked up to an intense level.
God's people are to be warned of this deception --
It will be part of the sifting process that shakes people out of the truth.
Just because the "elect" don't fall for it, doesn't mean probation is closed, it only means those who thought they were part of the elect but who didn't firmly anchor themselves in Christ, will be sifted out.
Of course this extends on after probation and includes the death decree, yet the beginning of the impersonation takes place before probation closes.
Actually there are already apparitions appearing claiming to be Christ.
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. ...
in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion....
The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming....
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? {GC Chapter XXXIX - “The Time of Trouble”}
Posted By: Rosangela
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/03/16 05:07 AM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
GC 624 mentions Satan personating Christ, p. 626 mentions the death decree, and p. 627 mentions the plagues being poured out. So it seems the devil personates Christ before the other two events take place. But it is not said if it occurs before or after the close of probation.
However, it is said, "Wonderful scenes, with which Satan will be closely connected, will soon take place. God's Word declares that Satan will work miracles. He will make people sick, and then will suddenly remove from them his satanic power. They will then be regarded as healed.These works of apparent healing will bring Seventh-day Adventists to the test" (2SM 53).
If this will be a test for SDAs, it's more natural to consider that it will occur before probation closes, for after the close of probation the saints cannot possibly fall into error.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/03/16 05:46 AM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
The Bible clearly teaches that Satan personates Christ after the close of probation.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/03/16 11:36 PM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
The Bible clearly teaches that Satan personates Christ after the close of probation.
As there are some here saying that it happens before probation closes and continues after probation closes, can you document from the Bible that it happens after probation closes???
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/04/16 06:40 AM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
The Bible clearly teaches that Satan personates Christ after the close of probation.
As there are some here saying that it happens before probation closes and continues after probation closes, can you document from the Bible that it happens after probation closes???
Sure.
First, let us note that Satan has already personated Christ on the earth already! One such case is in the Wilderness with Jesus. At the third temptation Satan showed Christ all the kingdoms of the earth and called on Christ to worship him! At this point Satan was claiming to be God of this earth as if he could give all this to Jesus if he wanted. Of course, we know Satan couldn't do any such thing.
Secondly, Revelation 12:7-9 clearly defines the dragon as Satan and no other.
Thirdly, the sixth vial of the seven last plagues has Satan, the dragon, on the earth with the beast and false prophet performing wonders and miracles to deceive the kings of the earth and the inhabitants of the world. This is no doubt Satan personating Christ. (Revelation 16:12-16)
We must always remember that Satan will never promote himself and an earthly kingdom or power. Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28 and Matthew 4 all show that Satan considers himself the Most High God of this earth. Even in the face of Christ Himself!
I hope I was clear.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/04/16 06:44 AM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
GC 624 mentions Satan personating Christ, p. 626 mentions the death decree, and p. 627 mentions the plagues being poured out. So it seems the devil personates Christ before the other two events take place. But it is not said if it occurs before or after the close of probation.
However, it is said, "Wonderful scenes, with which Satan will be closely connected, will soon take place. God's Word declares that Satan will work miracles. He will make people sick, and then will suddenly remove from them his satanic power. They will then be regarded as healed.These works of apparent healing will bring Seventh-day Adventists to the test" (2SM 53).
If this will be a test for SDAs, it's more natural to consider that it will occur before probation closes, for after the close of probation the saints cannot possibly fall into error. (bold emphasis mine)
Sister White is clear that the people of God will be tested, but, they
will not be misled.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/04/16 10:34 AM
Before --
His impersonation extends over a period of time, since he will be on earth for awhile pretending to be Christ. Thus it will cover time both before and after the close of probation. But the initial part takes place BEFORE probation closes as it is the last and crowning deception to wean people away from the true SAVIOR. During this time the Sunday laws will be cranked up to an intense level.
God's people are to be warned of this deception --
It will be part of the sifting process that shakes people out of the truth.
Just because the "elect" don't fall for it, doesn't mean probation is closed, it only means those who thought they were part of the elect but who didn't firmly anchor themselves in Christ, will be sifted out.
Of course this extends on after probation and includes the death decree, yet the beginning of the impersonation takes place before probation closes.
Actually there are already apparitions appearing claiming to be Christ.
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. ...
in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion....
The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming....
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? {GC Chapter XXXIX - “The Time of Trouble”}
I hope you mean "personate", and not "impersonate"?
Anyway, you haven't demonstrated anything from the Bible or Ellen White to support your position. Only your personal opinion. Satan's personation of Christ is after the close of probation following the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the Great Controversy. This "crowning act in the great drama of deception" clearly takes place after the close of probation.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/04/16 06:58 PM
I did a word search on the word "personate" in the writings of EGW and came up with this:The Crowning Deception
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is "the great power of God." Acts 8:10. {DD 41.4}
But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {DD 42.1}
And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known—witnessed by the whole world. {DD 42.2}
I bolded a couple of things for emphasis sake only.
Does the above quote help us to pinpoint when this personation of Christ happens in whether it happens before or after probation closes?
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/05/16 03:22 AM
I did a word search on the word "personate" in the writings of EGW and came up with this:The Crowning Deception
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is "the great power of God." Acts 8:10. {DD 41.4}
But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {DD 42.1}
And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known—witnessed by the whole world. {DD 42.2}
I bolded a couple of things for emphasis sake only.
Does the above quote help us to pinpoint when this personation of Christ happens in whether it happens before or after probation closes?
Blessings Daryl,
I don't believe taking these references from a compilation after one of these have been quoted from their original context was edifying. This statement about "the crowning act in the drama of deception" comes from chapter 39 in the Great Controversy (1911 edition) named The Time of Trouble. In this chapter the personation of Christ is clearly after the close of probation. I have mentioned this more than once already.
Now, of course, before the Great Controversy was the Great Controversy (1888 edition) and Spirit of Prophecy Vol. 4. But, all these demonstrate that the personation of Christ by Satan is after the close of probation. There isn't anyway around this fact.
Also, as was shown about the sixth vial of the seven last plagues, Satan shows up on the earth long after the close of probation. Unless of course, you are saying that the seven last plagues are before the close of probation!?! In which case you would have a lot to answer for.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/06/16 05:00 AM
The question that stills comes up in this discussion is; Will Satan personate Christ's Second Coming before the close of probation or after?
Technically, Satan simply shows up on the earth claiming to be Christ. But, I am not aware of Satan ever actually coming to the earth. Others, such as Victor Houteff and the New Agers teach this. But, I am not aware of anything in Scripture or the SOP that describes Satan actually coming through space or anything like that.
The question was answered that it will be after, but, that was ignored for some reason. The fact is clearly established in the chapter; The Time of Trouble in the Great Controversy. This chapter passed down for over 25 years from Volume 4 of The Spirit of Prophecy series by Ellen White, and it was always taught that the personation of Christ's Second Coming by Satan was after the close of probation.
Some want to straddle both sides of the fence and say that Satan shows up on the earth before the close of probation and remains on the earth until after the close of probation. As usual, they provide no evidence to support such an idea. That is because no evidence exist.
Revelation 16:12-16 clearly teaches that Satan shows up on the earth during the sixth plague. The sixth of the seven last plagues. Satan shows up well after the close of probation. Regardless, if it makes sense to you or not. that is the way it is.
And, if we understand the Great Controversy well enough, it does make sense. Because Satan doesn't care about the close of probation, he believes he is the Most High God of this earth! (Isaiah 14)
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/07/16 09:56 AM
Before --
His impersonation extends over a period of time, since he will be on earth for awhile pretending to be Christ. Thus it will cover time both before and after the close of probation. But the initial part takes place BEFORE probation closes as it is the last and crowning deception to wean people away from the true SAVIOR. During this time the Sunday laws will be cranked up to an intense level.
God's people are to be warned of this deception --
It will be part of the sifting process that shakes people out of the truth.
Just because the "elect" don't fall for it, doesn't mean probation is closed, it only means those who thought they were part of the elect but who didn't firmly anchor themselves in Christ, will be sifted out.
Of course this extends on after probation and includes the death decree, yet the beginning of the impersonation takes place before probation closes.
Actually there are already apparitions appearing claiming to be Christ.
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. ...
in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion....
The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming....
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? {GC Chapter XXXIX - “The Time of Trouble”}
Anyway, you haven't demonstrated anything from the Bible or Ellen White to support your position. Only your personal opinion.
???????????????
Half my post was quote.
Why warn God's people on this point if they are already beyond deception?
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/07/16 10:51 AM
By the sixth and seventh plague everyone's fate is totally sealed. And yes, satan does care about probation.
"Our probation is soon to close....Satan knows this, and he is making one last, mighty effort to destroy the souls of men. Especially does he work to entice into his ranks the professed followers of Christ; for he can work through them with the greatest effect to destroy others. {RH, October 23, 1888 par. 8}
We are approaching the end of this earth's history, and Satan is working as never before. He is striving to act as director of the Christian world. With an intensity that is marvelous he is working with his lying wonders. Satan is represented as walking about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. He desires to embrace the whole world in his confederacy. Hiding his deformity under the garb of Christianity, he assumes the attributes of a Christian, and claims to be Christ Himself.--8MR 346 (1901).
" Satan is determined to destroy the people of God, and cut them off from their inheritance."
It's true that God's people (this is NOT a corporate group,
God's people are individuals who have fully committed themselves to follow Christ the Lamb) -- only these fully committed ones will not be misled.
However, thousands who think they are right with God, but haven't been earnestly praying and seeking for an ever closer relationship will be deceived.
We are warned over and over and over again, to make our commitment to God sure NOW, or we will be swept away in the delusions.
If men are so easily misled now, how will they stand when Satan shall personate Christ, and work miracles? Who will be unmoved by his misrepresentations then--professing to be Christ when it is only Satan assuming the person of Christ, and apparently working the works of Christ?--2SM 394 (1897).
Satan will take the field and personate Christ. He will misrepresent, misapply, and pervert everything he possibly can.--TM 411 (1898).
No, Satan will not be allowed to replicate Christ's coming.
Yet, ask yourself --
HOW ARE PEOPLE EXPECTING CHRIST TO COME?
What do you hear on Christian radio and TV on this subject?
Some teach a secret rapture and then, seven years later believe Christ will APPEAR ON EARTH in the area of Jerusalem and set up His kingdom over the present world.
Others don't believe in the rapture but still believe Christ will APPEAR ON EARTH and set up His kingdom over the present world.
We even have posters on this forum who believe something similar, denying the millennium with Christ will be in heaven, but that it will be here on earth.
THE WORLD (especially the Christian world) IS BEING PREPARED TO RECEIVE THE FALSE CHRIST!
Satan . . . will come personating Jesus Christ, working mighty miracles; and men will fall down and worship him as Jesus Christ. We shall be commanded to worship this being, whom the world will glorify as Christ. What shall we do? Tell them that Christ has warned us against just such a foe, who is man's worst enemy, yet who claims to be God, and that when Christ shall make His appearance it will be with power and great glory, accompanied by ten thousand times ten thousand angels and thousands of thousands, and that when He shall come we shall know His voice.--6BC 1106 (1888). {LDE 165.3}
Please don't think this is some far off, no problem thing -- a crowning deception, is a serious thing!
Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. He will appear to his deluded followers, the Christian world who received not the love of the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (transgression of the law), as Christ coming the second time. {LDE 164.1}
He proclaims himself Christ, and he is believed to be Christ, a beautiful, majestic being clothed with majesty and, with soft voice and pleasant words, with glory unsurpassed by anything their mortal eyes had yet beheld. Then his deceived, deluded followers set up a shout of victory, "Christ has come the second time! Christ has come! He has lifted up His hands just as He did when He was upon the earth, and blessed us.". . . {LDE 164.2}
The saints look on with amazement. Will they also be deceived? Will they worship Satan? Angels of God are about them. A clear, firm, musical voice is heard, "Look up." {LDE 164.3}
There was one object before the praying ones--the final and eternal salvation of their souls. This object
was before them constantly--that immortal life was promised to those who endure unto the end. Oh, how earnest and fervent had been their desires. The judgment and eternity were in view. Their eyes by faith were fixed on the blazing throne, before which the white-robed ones were to stand. This restrained them from the indulgence of sin. . . . {LDE 164.4}
One effort more, and then Satan's last device is employed. He hears the unceasing cry for Christ to come, for Christ to deliver them. This last strategy is to personate Christ, and make them think their prayers are answered.--Ms 16, 1884. {LDE 165.1}
All through these quotes rings the warning -- a great deception will come -- urging us to make sure we are firmly grounded in the TRUE Christ for the danger of being deceived is very real.
And remember there are two times of trouble -- (See EW p. 85 and 3SM 397)
first before probation closes when many of God's people will suffer persecution and even be put to death, and after probation closes (no more martyrs) when the plagues fall.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/07/16 12:38 PM
All too often with Revelation 17. People talk without understanding.
What are we to understand about Revelation 17. I believe one important connection are the sixth and seventh plagues of Revelation 16. I believe the angel from 17:1 is the angel from the sixth plague. I believe this because the angel says in verse 1 that he "will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore". Who is this whore? Verse 5 tells us it is Babylon. And ancient Babylon sat on the literal River Euphrates and the sixth plague deals directly with the spiritual River Euphrates.
I believe the seventh plague is also connected because Babylon is called out by name in Revelation 16:17-21.
Personally, I don't believe this connection can afford to be missed.
And if we follow this connection, we know for a fact that the personation of Christ by Satan is after the close of probation. And this is because the dragon of the sixth plague can be none other than Satan himself on the earth.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/07/16 01:09 PM
Before --
His impersonation extends over a period of time, since he will be on earth for awhile pretending to be Christ. Thus it will cover time both before and after the close of probation. But the initial part takes place BEFORE probation closes as it is the last and crowning deception to wean people away from the true SAVIOR. During this time the Sunday laws will be cranked up to an intense level.
God's people are to be warned of this deception --
It will be part of the sifting process that shakes people out of the truth.
Just because the "elect" don't fall for it, doesn't mean probation is closed, it only means those who thought they were part of the elect but who didn't firmly anchor themselves in Christ, will be sifted out.
Of course this extends on after probation and includes the death decree, yet the beginning of the impersonation takes place before probation closes.
Actually there are already apparitions appearing claiming to be Christ.
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. ...
in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion....
The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming....
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? {GC Chapter XXXIX - “The Time of Trouble”}
Anyway, you haven't demonstrated anything from the Bible or Ellen White to support your position. Only your personal opinion.
???????????????
Half my post was quote.
Why warn God's people on this point if they are already beyond deception? (bold emphasis mine)
It is not about you dedication!!
Your question is not proof of anything!!
Sister White is clear that Satan personates Christ in a desperate move because he is about to lose what he has built on this earth. Satan can see Babylon falling! This is why he does what he does. Satan doesn't care one bit that Christ has closed the door of mercy to this world, he is fighting for his own life and freedom! Him and his evil angels!
Remember, in the Great Controversy, Satan believes that he is the Most High God of this earth and he is got to prove it NOW!! (NOW!! still being this future event)
Think about this for a minute; I personally believe that Satan claims this earth as his even before the close of probation! This is how I read Daniel 11:45. Satan sets up his tabernacles between the seas (peoples of this earth) and the Glorious Holy Mountain (New Jerusalem). Satan is claiming this earth as his even before Michael stands up in Daniel 12:1! Satan claims it's all over before Christ does! So, Satan doesn't care in the least about the close of probation and doesn't even really know that it has taken place. He doesn't know that probation has closed. So, what does he care about it!
We know that Satan will lose and the close of probation is critically important! Because God has made it so. But, Satan doesn't care about it at all. Unless you can prove me wrong and show where Satan knows about and cares about the close of probation. But, I know you can't.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/07/16 01:42 PM
Just for the sake of clarity;
When I mentioned Daniel 11:45, what I am saying is that Satan does not want Christ to be the one to close out probation. Satan wants to take control of the events of this earth away from Christ! Right?!?
This is how Satan cares about probation. Satan does not care about the close of probation as we think of it. He doesn't know when it closes or anything.
This is why when the four winds are let loose, I believe Satan takes that as evidence that he has won the battle! Even God has acknowledged it by relinquishing control of the earth to him! It is when the plagues start to fall and all of his world is falling apart that Satan gets desperate and personates Christ.
So then, Satan doesn't personate Christ until after the plagues start to fall, just as the Bible teaches it!
Posted By: kland
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/08/16 08:23 PM
If it is after probation, why the caution not to go out to the desert or inner chambers? How could he deceive the very elect if possible?
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/09/16 04:20 PM
If it is after probation, why the caution not to go out to the desert or inner chambers? How could he deceive the very elect if possible?
Because Satan is simply fighting for his own life and freedom. Satan doesn't care if God's people are deceived, he will just kill them all! That is what we learn from SpM 2.1. If the Scapegoat, Satan, were to get loose, Israel would lose their lives. Satan wants to simply murder all of God's people.
In LDE 164, Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. What case?!? Case in this context is a legal term. Like bringing your case to court. And Satan is losing his case and must destroy all of God's people to save himself.
So, the close of probation by God doesn't mean anything really. He isn't concerned with changing the minds of God's people.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/11/16 04:55 AM
Another point I would like to make. The Bible states that the very elect would be deceived, if possible. That is a big "if"! The Bible and Ellen White both state that God's people will not be misled! Hence the "if".
So, there isn't any need for Satan to deceive at this time. If somehow it were to happen, Satan would take it, I guess. But, his purpose is to destroy all of God's people that are left.
Posted By: kland
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/11/16 08:08 PM
If it is after probation, why the caution not to go out to the desert or inner chambers? How could he deceive the very elect if possible?
Because Satan is simply fighting for his own life and freedom. Satan doesn't care if God's people are deceived, he will just kill them all! That is what we learn from SpM 2.1. If the Scapegoat, Satan, were to get loose, Israel would lose their lives. Satan wants to simply murder all of God's people.
In LDE 164, Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. What case?!? Case in this context is a legal term. Like bringing your case to court. And Satan is losing his case and must destroy all of God's people to save himself.
So, the close of probation by God doesn't mean anything really. He isn't concerned with changing the minds of God's people.
I agree with this.
Another point I would like to make. The Bible states that the very elect would be deceived, if possible. That is a big "if"! The Bible and Ellen White both state that God's people will not be misled! Hence the "if".
So, there isn't any need for Satan to deceive at this time. If somehow it were to happen, Satan would take it, I guess. But, his purpose is to destroy all of God's people that are left.
After probation, satan can't destroy God's people. So why the need for personation? He already has the wicked, can't deceive the righteous. Why the need?
It only fits if his personation happens before the final close of probation.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 03:34 AM
If it is after probation, why the caution not to go out to the desert or inner chambers? How could he deceive the very elect if possible?
Because Satan is simply fighting for his own life and freedom. Satan doesn't care if God's people are deceived, he will just kill them all! That is what we learn from SpM 2.1. If the Scapegoat, Satan, were to get loose, Israel would lose their lives. Satan wants to simply murder all of God's people.
In LDE 164, Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. What case?!? Case in this context is a legal term. Like bringing your case to court. And Satan is losing his case and must destroy all of God's people to save himself.
So, the close of probation by God doesn't mean anything really. He isn't concerned with changing the minds of God's people.
I agree with this.
Another point I would like to make. The Bible states that the very elect would be deceived, if possible. That is a big "if"! The Bible and Ellen White both state that God's people will not be misled! Hence the "if".
So, there isn't any need for Satan to deceive at this time. If somehow it were to happen, Satan would take it, I guess. But, his purpose is to destroy all of God's people that are left.
After probation, satan can't destroy God's people. So why the need for personation? He already has the wicked, can't deceive the righteous. Why the need?
It only fits if his personation happens before the final close of probation. (bold emphasis mine)
What "fits" in your mind is irrelevant, this is how prophecy teaches it. Satan doesn't care that God has promised to deliver His people, Satan's intention is to prove God wrong. Remember the Great Controversy, Satan believes he is the Most High God on the earth. Where do you think the Papacy gets that idea? From
Satan.
Those who insist on this "it has to be before the close of probation" are in bondage to these philosophies. Why don't you show from the Bible and Ellen White that Satan's personation of Christ is before the close of probation? Because you can't!
Revelation 16:12-16 is clear. The dragon, who is Satan, shows up on the earth to perform signs and wonders to deceive the "kings of the earth and of the whole world". Satan shows up after the plagues start to fall. Period.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 05:57 AM
Alchemy,
kland made a good point regarding Satan's deception, but I believe Ellen White makes it clear enough herself.
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}
If you read the pages before that, you will discover several events lined up in a chronological order that will occur in the end.
1) Satan will personate Christ.
2) Many will believe him and be deceived in this crowning act of deception.
3) Governments will commence and/or increase their persecution of God's people.
4) Jesus ceases His ministration in the sanctuary.
5) The seven last plagues are poured out.
I believe that probation closes at #4 in the above list, don't you? If probation had already closed before that, why ever would Jesus still be ministering on behalf of sinners?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 07:47 AM
Alchemy,
kland made a good point regarding Satan's deception, but I believe Ellen White makes it clear enough herself.When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}
If you read the pages before that, you will discover several events lined up in a chronological order that will occur in the end.
1) Satan will personate Christ.
2) Many will believe him and be deceived in this crowning act of deception.
3) Governments will commence and/or increase their persecution of God's people.
4) Jesus ceases His ministration in the sanctuary.
5) The seven last plagues are poured out.
I believe that probation closes at #4 in the above list, don't you? If probation had already closed before that, why ever would Jesus still be ministering on behalf of sinners?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
(bold emphasis mine)
What point are you talking about, Green?!? I have never read one good point kland has made in this thread. He follows me around, and others, simply harassing in his nonsense.
So, I need kland to speak for himself and I would hope you would do the same.
As I have mentioned more than once already, Green. Please, read it now. In the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the book The Great Controversy, Ellen White clearly talks about Satan's personation of Christ as after the close of probation. Are you saying Ellen White is contradicting herself?
Also, I would like to know your thoughts on what I have shared from Revelation 16:12-16? That the dragon represents Satan on the earth well after the close of probation.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 07:55 AM
You guys came make claims to anything you want, but, this is how the chapter The Time of Trouble starts out;
“At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book.” Daniel 12:1. {GC 613.1}
When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, “It is done;” and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up; “the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,” is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. {GC 613.2} (bold emphasis mine)
This is the close of probation! This should have been first on the list from Grean, but, it wasn't. I don't know how Green is thinking like that, but, he is.
This chapter continues until page 634. So, when you quote from page numbers in the 620's, it is from the chapter "The Time of Trouble".
All you people need to read this chapter!
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 08:25 AM
To continue from The Time of Trouble in The Great Controversy;
Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world’s Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour’s advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: “Christ has come! Christ has come!” The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}
But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}[/color] (bold emphasis mine)
Here, much later in the same chapter, we have the personation of Christ by Satan. This is no doubt after the close of probation that I quoted in my post before this one.
Now, later in this chapter, Sister White talks about the seven last plagues. In talking about the plagues she says;
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God’s people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: “There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image.” The sea “became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.” And “the rivers and fountains of waters ... became blood.” Terrible as these inflictions are, God’s justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: “Thou art righteous, O Lord, ... because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.” Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. [color:#FF0000]{GC 627.3}
In the plague that follows, power is given to the sun “to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat.” Verses 8, 9. The prophets thus describe the condition of the earth at this fearful time: “The land mourneth; ... because the harvest of the field is perished.... All the trees of the field are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.” “The seed is rotten under their clods, the garners are laid desolate.... How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture.... The rivers of water are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.” “The songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.” Joel 1:10-12, 17-20; Amos 8:3. {GC 628.1}
These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off. Yet they will be the most awful scourges that have ever been known to mortals. All the judgments upon men, prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. The pleading blood of Christ has shielded the sinner from receiving the full measure of his guilt; but in the final judgment, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy. {GC 628.2}
In that day, multitudes will desire the shelter of God’s mercy which they have so long despised. “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: and they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.” Amos 8:11, 12. {GC 629.1}(bold emphasis mine)
Her brief mention of the close of probation is to show that these events have been taking place during the seven last plagues. Just as Revelation 16:12-16 teaches. These plagues take place after the close of probation, just as the personation of Christ by Satan does.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 09:20 AM
You guys came make claims to anything you want, but, this is how the chapter The Time of Trouble starts out;
“At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book.” Daniel 12:1. {GC 613.1}
When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, “It is done;” and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up; “the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,” is about to be given to the heirs of salvation, and Jesus is to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. {GC 613.2} (bold emphasis mine)
This is the close of probation! This should have been first on the list from Grean, but, it wasn't. I don't know how Green is thinking like that, but, he is.
This chapter continues until page 634. So, when you quote from page numbers in the 620's, it is from the chapter "The Time of Trouble".
All you people need to read this chapter!
Alchemy,
It is true, as you point out, that the chapter in
Great Controversy which you referenced starts out speaking of the moment when Michael stands up, and probation is closed. However, the paragraphs which follow do not follow chronologically. Some of them clearly apply to a time
before probation's close. For example, consider the following from page 616:
As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness. The same argument many centuries ago was brought against Christ by the "rulers of the people." "It is expedient for us," said the wily Caiaphas, "that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not." John 11:50. This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World and apostate Protestantism in the New will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts. {GC 615.2}
She refers to a time well before the final decree for Sunday observance, leading up to that decree. Mrs. White places the close of probation either at or after the Sunday law (perhaps depending on whether one considers its proclamation or its taking effect). Therefore, this paragraph speaks of a period of time prior to probation's close.
Here's another passage from that chapter:
Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}
It is in this life that we are to separate sin from us, through faith in the atoning blood of Christ. Our precious Saviour invites us to join ourselves to Him, to unite our weakness to His strength, our ignorance to His wisdom, our unworthiness to His merits. God's providence is the school in which we are to learn the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. The Lord is ever setting before us, not the way we would choose, which seems easier and pleasanter to us, but the true aims of life. It rests with us to co-operate with the agencies which Heaven employs in the work of conforming our characters to the divine model. None can neglect or defer this work but at the most fearful peril to their souls. {GC 623.2}
The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}
Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. ...
Those paragraphs leading up to that final sentence clearly refer to a time preceding probation's close. If such were not the case, there would be no need for Mrs. White to tell us how we should be developing our characters, for after the close of probation, this would no longer be possible. She speaks of people being deceived, but after the close of probation, all of the world will see Satan and the papacy unmasked, being thoroughly undeceived at that point. It would, therefore, be futile for us to speak of Satan deceiving anyone post probation.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 09:39 AM
Green wrote;
"Alchemy,
It is true, as you point out, that the chapter in <i>Great Controversy</i> which you referenced starts out speaking of the moment when Michael stands up, and probation is closed. However, the paragraphs which follow do not follow chronologically. Some of them clearly apply to a time <i>before</i> probation's close. For example, consider the following from page 616:
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness. The same argument many centuries ago was brought against Christ by the "rulers of the people." "It is expedient for us," said the wily Caiaphas, "that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not." John 11:50. This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World and apostate Protestantism in the New will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts. {GC 615.2}
She refers to a time well before the final decree for Sunday observance, leading up to that decree. Mrs. White places the close of probation either at or after the Sunday law (perhaps depending on whether one considers its proclamation or its taking effect). Therefore, this paragraph speaks of a period of time prior to probation's close."
I completely disagree! It is still after the close of probation! There isn't anything in this context that lends to that idea or position. Absolutely nothing.
So, at some point, I hope you are prepared to demonstrate that the personation of Christ by Satan is before the close of probation. Because, it is not in this chapter.
There is a point where Satan believes he has accomplished his mission in destroying all of God's people and truth from the earth. He claims this earth as his. This takes place before the close of probation!
When Christ closes probation on the earth, the four winds of strife are let loose. I believe Satan takes this as recognition from God that Satan has indeed won his case!
What happens in the paragraph you mentioned is that God's people have been discovered on the earth! Then the plagues start falling and destroying this great infrastructure of sin that Satan has built. In a desperate act, Satan personates Christ to get the universal death decree he needs to destroy all of God's people before Christ returns. If Satan can do this, he will win his life and freedom.
But, as we read in SpM 2.1, God is true to His word and God's people are delivered. The Scapegoat is bound and Christ does return as He has promised.
So, Sister White is not at all talking about time before the close of probation in that paragraph. She is talking after the close of probation. There isn't anything in this chapter to allow for all these changes of time back and forth!
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 09:45 AM
Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints. But before their decree bring or bear fruit, the saints will be delivered by the Voice of God. Then I saw that Jesus’ work in the sanctuary will soon be finished. And after His work there is finished, He will come to the door of the first apartment, and confess the sins of Israel upon the head of the Scape Goat. Then He will put on the garments of vengeance. Then the plagues will come upon the wicked, and they do not come till Jesus puts on that garment, and takes His place upon the great white cloud. Then while the plagues are falling, the Scape Goat is being led away. He makes a mighty struggle to escape, but he is held fast by the hand that leads him. If he should effect his escape, Israel would lose their lives. I saw that it would take time to lead away the Scape Goat into the land of forgetfulness after the sins were put on his head. {SpM 2.1}
(bold emphasis mine)
I wanted to bring this quote here for all to see. It is after the close of probation and while the plagues are falling that Satan is bound. This is the deliverance of God's people. SpM 2.2 then talks about the preparations of Christ's Second Coming.
This is after the close of probation.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 09:54 AM
Green, I want you to read the paragraph you quoted in the context of the paragraph before and after. This is clearly after the close of probation.
When God’s presence was finally withdrawn from the Jewish nation, priests and people knew it not. Though under the control of Satan, and swayed by the most horrible and malignant passions, they still regarded themselves as the chosen of God. The ministration in the temple continued; sacrifices were offered upon its polluted altars, and daily the divine blessing was invoked upon a people guilty of the blood of God’s dear Son and seeking to slay His ministers and apostles. So when the irrevocable decision of the sanctuary has been pronounced and the destiny of the world has been forever fixed, the inhabitants of the earth will know it not. The forms of religion will be continued by a people from whom the Spirit of God has been finally withdrawn; and the satanic zeal with which the prince of evil will inspire them for the accomplishment of his malignant designs, will bear the semblance of zeal for God. {GC 615.1}
As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness. The same argument many centuries ago was brought against Christ by the “rulers of the people.” “It is expedient for us,” said the wily Caiaphas, “that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.” John 11:50. This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World and apostate Protestantism in the New will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts. {GC 615.2}
The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob’s trouble. “Thus saith the Lord: We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.... All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” Jeremiah 30:5-7. {GC 616.1} (bold emphasis mine)
"The time of Jacob's trouble" is clearly after the close of probation. There isn't any way around that!
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 10:01 AM
Two other paragraphs you quoted;
The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: “Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}
Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world’s Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1} (bold emphasis mine)
These paragraphs are clearly talking about Satan coming during the sixth plague on the earth. GC 624.1 uses some of the same language are Revelation 16:12-16.
This is clearly after the close of probation.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 10:24 AM
"The time of Jacob's trouble" is clearly after the close of probation. There isn't any way around that!
I'm not persuaded that it is. Are the plagues falling during this time?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 10:47 AM
I completely disagree! It is still after the close of probation! There isn't anything in this context that lends to that idea or position. Absolutely nothing.
So, at some point, I hope you are prepared to demonstrate that the personation of Christ by Satan is before the close of probation. Because, it is not in this chapter.
There is a point where Satan believes he has accomplished his mission in destroying all of God's people and truth from the earth. He claims this earth as his. This takes place before the close of probation!
When Christ closes probation on the earth, the four winds of strife are let loose. I believe Satan takes this as recognition from God that Satan has indeed won his case!
What happens in the paragraph you mentioned is that God's people have been discovered on the earth! Then the plagues start falling and destroying this great infrastructure of sin that Satan has built. In a desperate act, Satan personates Christ to get the universal death decree he needs to destroy all of God's people before Christ returns. If Satan can do this, he will win his life and freedom.
But, as we read in SpM 2.1, God is true to His word and God's people are delivered. The Scapegoat is bound and Christ does return as He has promised.
So, Sister White is not at all talking about time before the close of probation in that paragraph. She is talking after the close of probation. There isn't anything in this chapter to allow for all these changes of time back and forth!
Here's a good quote, Alchemy, to help us with the time line. Note that Mrs. White makes no mention of Satan being deceived regarding the time.
Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. He will appear to his deluded followers, the Christian world who received not the love of the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (transgression of the law), as Christ coming the second time. {LDE 164.1}
Note, also, that Mrs. White makes no mention of the faithful needing not to concern themselves about this deception, as she logically should if their cases were already to have been closed at this point.
Mrs White says:
Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent.--GC 625 (1911). {LDE 165.2}
Why would it matter what Satan did if probation were already closed? God does not allow Satan to do this for the express reason that His followers who know the truth are to be able to stand by it. Their cases, then, cannot have been already decided, for if they were deceived, they would fall at this time into Satan's camp, just as Satan wishes.
Consider the following statements. The first one shows that the plagues will fall as soon as probation is closed.
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark, will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel, were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Revelation 16:2-4. Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. . . . {FLB 340.2}
These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off. Yet they will be the most awful scourges that have ever been known to mortals. All the judgments upon men, prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. The pleading blood of Christ has shielded the sinner from receiving the full measure of his guilt; but in the final judgment, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy. {FLB 340.3}
This second statement clarifies that a time of trouble exists before the close of probation.
A Time of Trouble Before Probation Closes
On page 33 [of Early Writings] is given the following: ". . . At the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully." {LDE 143.1}
This view was given in 1847 when there were but very few of the Advent brethren observing the Sabbath, and of these but few supposed that its observance was of sufficient importance to draw a line between the people of God and unbelievers. Now the fulfillment of that view is beginning to be seen. "The commencement of that time of trouble," here mentioned, does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel.--EW 85, 86 (1854). {LDE 143.2}
Satan figures out that probation has closed.
Satan Infers That Probation Has Closed
In the time of trouble Satan stirs up the wicked, and they encircle the people of God to destroy them. But he does not know that "pardon" has been written opposite their names in the books of heaven.--RH Nov. 19, 1908. {LDE 234.1}
As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble. . . . He sees that holy angels are guarding them, and he infers that their sins have been pardoned, but he does not know that their cases have been decided in the sanctuary above.--GC 618 (1911). {LDE 234.2}
Interesting statements.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 04:03 PM
Green wrote;
"Here's a good quote, Alchemy, to help us with the time line. Note that Mrs. White makes no mention of Satan being deceived regarding the time.
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. He will appear to his deluded followers, the Christian world who received not the love of the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (transgression of the law), as Christ coming the second time. {LDE 164.1}
Note, also, that Mrs. White makes no mention of the faithful needing not to concern themselves about this deception, as she logically should if their cases were already to have been closed at this point."
I am quite familiar with this quote and there isn't anything to your points. In the chapter The Time of Trouble, Sister White clearly states that "God's people will not be misled". Yet, they still suffer trouble and trials.
Green wrote;
"Why would it matter what Satan did if probation were already closed? God does not allow Satan to do this for the express reason that His followers who know the truth are to be able to stand by it. Their cases, then, cannot have been already decided, for if they were deceived, they would fall at this time into Satan's camp, just as Satan wishes."
Just assumption on your part. As I have stated before, Satan still believes he can win his case. But, to do this, he must deceive the rest of the world to murder all of God's people! Satan doesn't care if God's people are deceived, because he is just going to murder all of them. Ellen White uses the term "Israel would lose their lives". {SpM 2.1}[/color]
Your complete concept of the close of probation is skewed to the point that you ask all the wrong questions. You insist Satan needs to convert God's people when he is simply wanting all of them dead. Period.
Green wrote;
"Consider the following statements. The first one shows that the plagues will fall as soon as probation is closed.
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark, will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel, were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Revelation 16:2-4. Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. . . . [color:#FF0000]{FLB 340.2}
These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off. Yet they will be the most awful scourges that have ever been known to mortals. All the judgments upon men, prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. The pleading blood of Christ has shielded the sinner from receiving the full measure of his guilt; but in the final judgment, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy. {FLB 340.3}"
Now, what are you doing Green? These statements come right out of the chapter "The Time of Trouble" and I have addressed them already.
All this is just one lame point after another. You must do better.
The personation of Christ by Satan is all after the close of probation. And everything in the Bible and Ellen White's writings support that fact! You have brought nothing to the table Green.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 04:12 PM
Green wrote;
"Satan figures out that probation has closed.
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Satan Infers That Probation Has Closed
In the time of trouble Satan stirs up the wicked, and they encircle the people of God to destroy them. But he does not know that "pardon" has been written opposite their names in the books of heaven.--RH Nov. 19, 1908. {LDE 234.1}
As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble. . . . He sees that holy angels are guarding them, and he infers that their sins have been pardoned, but he does not know that their cases have been decided in the sanctuary above.--GC 618 (1911). {LDE 234.2} (bold emphasis mine)
Interesting statements.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa."
Again, Sister White clearly states that this attempt by Satan to destroy God's people is during the Time of Trouble, the Time of Jacob's Trouble by the reference to Esau. This is clearly after the close of probation!
With all this evidence all showing the personation of Christ by Satan to be after the close of probation, what would make anyone believe that it is before the close of probation?!? No such evidence exists! Period.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 04:52 PM
Alchemy,
The ones who are prepared to be translated to heaven will not enjoy strife and debate. Regardless of whether you see my interpretations to be correct, please remember Christian courtesy.
I have found this forum to be increasingly difficult to work with in this respect, which is one reason I find it necessary of late to take "breaks" from it for awhile. If the influence of others here has stirred up your negative emotions by pushing all of your buttons, just remember that we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
Satan's final deception will be a masterpiece, in part, at least, due to the kindness and gentleness which he will display in mimicking Christ. In part, he will also work miracles. Mrs. White says that so will God's people in the last days. Signs and wonders cannot help us know which entity has the truth with the true Spirit. Satan will have truth. But he will not have true love, joy, or peace.
We need more than truth here, Alchemy. We need God's Spirit as well.
God bless,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: APL
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/12/16 10:13 PM
"Last Day Events" is a compilation. If you'd like to know EGW's timeline, look at original sources. Look At "The Great Controversy". If one it waiting for a death decree for Sunday or a manifestation of Satan as Christ, it will be too late. The time of Jacob's trouble is after the close of probation. If Jacob had not truly repented before this time of his trouble, he would have been destroyed. Read Great Controversy chapter 39 to get the sequence of events.
Posted By: kland
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 12:47 AM
What point are you talking about, Green?!? I have never read one good point kland has made in this thread. He follows me around, and others, simply harassing in his nonsense.
Alchemy, that's uncalled for!
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 02:23 AM
"The time of Jacob's trouble" is clearly after the close of probation. There isn't any way around that!
I'm not persuaded that it is. Are the plagues falling during this time?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Wow Green!
I have long understood and believe that the time of trouble before the close of probation is called the little time of trouble. And that the Time of Trouble after the close of probation is called Jacob's Time of Trouble.
Please, explain why you are not convinced that Jacob's Time of Trouble is not after the close of probation?
Again, in the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the book The Great Controversy, immediately after the close of probation, Sister White describes Jacob's Time of Trouble. I take this as a direct effort on Sister White's part to make sure no one is confused with the little Time of Trouble. Because, the little Time of Trouble is before the close of probation while Jacob's Time of Trouble is after the close of probation.
You have much to answer for, Green. But, I understand the confusion if people are confused on this point.
You see, when I first joined the SDA Church in 1982, I would hear about the personation of Christ by Satan from time to time. But, the message then wasn't clear. I can remember people getting all caught up about stories that Satan had sent messages to earth from space and stuff like that.
Well, that lasted about 5 years or so, and then nothing until 2015. For about 25 years years I heard nothing about Satan personating Christ until I read the chapter "The Time of Trouble" again!! And then having it brought up in this thread here. I have finally delved into this subject myself. And it has been a very holy experience for me! Having God direct me as He has done.
So, I don't know why so many people are locked into this idea that Satan personates Christ before the close of probation, but, you need to let that go. You need to cut that loose. Because, it is impossible to demonstrate that Satan personates Christ before the close of probation!
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 02:26 AM
"Last Day Events" is a compilation. If you'd like to know EGW's timeline, look at original sources. Look At "The Great Controversy". If one it waiting for a death decree for Sunday or a manifestation of Satan as Christ, it will be too late. The time of Jacob's trouble is after the close of probation. If Jacob had not truly repented before this time of his trouble, he would have been destroyed. Read Great Controversy chapter 39 to get the sequence of events.
Amen APL!
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 02:48 AM
Blessings APL.
Can I ask you a question?
How or why is this idea that Satan personates Christ before the close of probation so entrenched within the SDA Church?
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 08:47 AM
Here's what you need to answer, Alchemy:
Will you or anyone else know when probation has closed?
It seems we are told in the Bible that:
1) No man will know;
2) The angels of God will not know;
3) Even Jesus may not know (depends on interpretation of Mark 13:32);
AND
4) Mrs. White tells us Satan himself can only "infer" that it has closed.
Interestingly, Satan infers this because God's people are protected by the holy angels. So do the holy angels at that point know as well? If so, how can the Bible be correct that they will not know?
You see, the real question to grapple with here, and where you and I may differ, is whether or not probation's close is an event at a single moment in time, or if it closes at different times for different people and/or groups of people. I believe the latter. I believe probation may have closed for God's people at the time of Jacob's trouble. However, the world still has a chance. The plagues are not yet. Probation for the world still continues for a time, while the saints are persecuted and some martyred. No saint will lose his or her life after probation has closed for everyone. As long as persecution of the saints means some of them are put to death, we can be assured that probation has not closed for the world. Their deaths will inspire some to accept God in the final moments of earth's history.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 09:21 AM
Green wrote;
"Here's what you need to answer, Alchemy:
Will you or anyone else know when probation has closed?"
What are you talking about?
The exact time when probation closes is not the issue. So, no Green. I never have to answer that question. Your point here is worthless.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 09:43 AM
Here's what you need to answer, Alchemy:
Will you or anyone else know when probation has closed?
It seems we are told in the Bible that:
1) No man will know;
2) The angels of God will not know;
3) Even Jesus may not know (depends on interpretation of Mark 13:32);
AND
4) Mrs. White tells us Satan himself can only "infer" that it has closed.
Interestingly, Satan infers this because God's people are protected by the holy angels. So do the holy angels at that point know as well? If so, how can the Bible be correct that they will not know?
You see, the real question to grapple with here, and where you and I may differ, is whether or not probation's close is an event at a single moment in time, or if it closes at different times for different people and/or groups of people. I believe the latter. I believe probation may have closed for God's people at the time of Jacob's trouble. However, the world still has a chance. The plagues are not yet. Probation for the world still continues for a time, while the saints are persecuted and some martyred. No saint will lose his or her life after probation has closed for everyone. As long as persecution of the saints means some of them are put to death, we can be assured that probation has not closed for the world. Their deaths will inspire some to accept God in the final moments of earth's history.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
(bold emphasis mine)
Your statement about the angels knowing when the Bible says they won't know is ridiculous! Where does the Bible say the angels won't know when the close of probation is? What are you talking about?
The Bible says the angels won't know when the Second Coming of Jesus is! But, it doesn't mention the close of probation. The close of probation and the Second Coming of Jesus are two totally different events!
As far as your question to grapple with; At least there was some substance to address. But, all that junk earlier was terrible.
So now, once again, I will defer to the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the Great Controversy. Ellen White describes the close of probation as for the entire planet earth. No more mercy for fallen mankind.
Here is a quote;
"When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.”"
{GC 613.2}I want to finish this point, Green. You see, it doesn't matter if probation closes for some earlier than others. When I am speaking of the close of probation in this thread, it is for all the inhabitants of the earth. Just like Sister White is in chapter 39 of the Great Controversy.
So no! No one in the world has a chance at salvation during the Time of Jacob's Trouble. All decisions are final before this time, being the close of probation.
You may want to study up on the little time of trouble, Green.
There isn't any way around this, Green. Satan's personation of Christ is after the close of probation. Period.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 10:29 AM
Alchemy,
Thank you for your questions. The Bible tells us that the angels won't know in at least two places: Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32. I would like you to tell me why you feel those address the second coming, which is not mentioned in either verse, instead of the close of probation.
Consider the context: Matthew 24 goes on to compare the "day" and "hour" that Jesus is addressing to the "day" when Noah entered the ark. What day did that represent? When the door of the ark shut, did that represent the close of probation or the second coming?
Your answer to that last question should tell you what is being addressed in verse 36.
God bless,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 11:52 AM
Green.
The close of probation for all mankind. That is the close of probation being talked about.
I will look into your concept of the close of probation with the angels as I have never thought of it that way before.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 12:00 PM
Green. I just read Matthew 24:36-37. The Bible clearly states "so shall the coming of the son of man be."
Green. The Bible states the coming of the son of man. (bold emphasis mine)
If you read down to verse 39, the Bible explains how the days of Noah relate to "the coming of the son of man". These verses are talking about the Second Coming of Christ, not the close of probation.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 12:39 PM
Alchemy,
You have made some good observations, but have still been influenced by the traditional Adventist bias about what those verses say. I would encourage you to, as Mrs. White says we should when we come to the Bible to understand its meaning, set your preconceptions aside for a moment and look at it one more time.
Here's the catch: There are TWO comings of Christ.
Christ comes in judgment, and in glory. The Bible itself refers to two manners of His coming: in one, He will come as a thief; whereas in the other, every eye will see Him. Thieves don't trumpet their arrival.
Jesus refers to BOTH comings in that passage in Matthew. Look again, and I believe you will notice this. First, there is the "day" that Noah enters the ark. That is really the most important one. It is the determiner of who will be saved or lost. When the flood came, the determination had already been made--seven days earlier in that story. When Jesus comes in glory, it is to hand out the rewards which have already been determined--in this case, we don't know how much earlier, for it came as a thief in the night.
Jesus goes on to focus more on the "thief" concept in the following verses. That is because of the two comings, the first is the more significant and the one for which we must be prepared.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 02:45 PM
Alchemy,
You have made some good observations, but have still been influenced by the traditional Adventist bias about what those verses say. I would encourage you to, as Mrs. White says we should when we come to the Bible to understand its meaning, set your preconceptions aside for a moment and look at it one more time.
Here's the catch: There are TWO comings of Christ.
Christ comes in judgment, and in glory. The Bible itself refers to two manners of His coming: in one, He will come as a thief; whereas in the other, every eye will see Him. Thieves don't trumpet their arrival.
Jesus refers to BOTH comings in that passage in Matthew. Look again, and I believe you will notice this. First, there is the "day" that Noah enters the ark. That is really the most important one. It is the determiner of who will be saved or lost. When the flood came, the determination had already been made--seven days earlier in that story. When Jesus comes in glory, it is to hand out the rewards which have already been determined--in this case, we don't know how much earlier, for it came as a thief in the night.
Jesus goes on to focus more on the "thief" concept in the following verses. That is because of the two comings, the first is the more significant and the one for which we must be prepared.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
(bold emphasis mine)
Interesting Green.
Still, we are talking about the close of probation for the entire world. No more mercy for the guilty inhabitants of the world.
But, I want you to set your preconceptions aside as well!! I believe this is why many are struggling with letting go of this "before the close of probation idea".
In all honesty, I didn't have any preconceptions when I started studying this late last year.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/13/16 03:52 PM
Alchemy,
Again, I would point out that not even the angels will know when probation closes. If that is the case, how can we know if probation has closed for one group, one person, or for the whole world? We will not know until something happens that is said to be
after probation's close--like the plagues falling, or the wicked being no longer able to kill the righteous. By then, it's too late. From the passages I've studied, immediately after Jesus ceases His ministration in the heavenly sanctuary, meaning probation will have closed for the last person, the plagues begin. Somewhere around this same time, the beast is unmasked, and all of the world sees through his deception. Therefore, I cannot see how at this same time (post-probationary time) Satan could then be able to deceive anyone by impersonating Christ.
There is no clear statement from Mrs. White that says Satan personates Christ after probation's close. You refer to the chapter in
Great Controversy, and that is fine. However, you cannot prove that the entire chapter is presented in chronological order, nor can you prove the entirety of its contents speak of events in post-probationary time. In fact, a careful reader can find many references within that chapter to times preceding probation's close, such as when Mrs. White clearly speaks of "now". In fact, let's look carefully at that passage, beginning with that point, and you'll see that we cross the line again into post-probationary time several pages later. I've color-coded the table to show where the switch occurs.
Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}
It is in this life that we are to separate sin from us, through faith in the atoning blood of Christ. Our precious Saviour invites us to join ourselves to Him, to unite our weakness to His strength, our ignorance to His wisdom, our unworthiness to His merits. God's providence is the school in which we are to learn the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. The Lord is ever setting before us, not the way we would choose, which seems easier and pleasanter to us, but the true aims of life. It rests with us to co-operate with the agencies which Heaven employs in the work of conforming our characters to the divine model. None can neglect or defer this work but at the most fearful peril to their souls. {GC 623.2}
The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}
Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is "the great power of God." Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}
But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}
And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known--witnessed by the whole world. {GC 625.2}
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief. {GC 625.3}
As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries and will thank God for "the munitions of rocks." Isaiah 33:16. But many of all nations and of all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {GC 626.1}
Will the Lord forget His people in this trying hour? Did He forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did He forget Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did He forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did He forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the prophets of Baal? Did He forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison house? Did He forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? {GC 626.2}
"Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of My hands." Isaiah 49:14-16. The Lord of hosts has said: "He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye." Zechariah 2:8. {GC 626.3}
Though enemies may thrust them into prison, yet dungeon walls cannot cut off the communication between their souls and Christ. One who sees their every weakness, who is acquainted with every trial, is above all earthly powers; and angels will come to them in lonely cells, bringing light and peace from heaven. The prison will be as a palace; for the rich in faith dwell there, and the gloomy walls will be lighted up with heavenly light as when Paul and Silas prayed and sang praises at midnight in the Philippian dungeon. {GC 627.1}
God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}
|
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}
|
In approximately the center of the still-probationary time passage quoted above, Ellen White speaks clearly of a testing time to come to every individual. Obviously, there is no need to test anyone after probation has closed. This is something God does during our probationary time. As a part of this test, Satan is allowed to personate Christ--but God's people will not be deceived, because they are grounded in a knowledge of the scriptures and because God will not permit Satan to imitate the manner of His coming.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 04:07 AM
Alchemy,
Again, I would point out that not even the angels will know when probation closes. If that is the case, how can we know if probation has closed for one group, one person, or for the whole world? We will not know until something happens that is said to be
after probation's close--like the plagues falling, or the wicked being no longer able to kill the righteous. By then, it's too late. From the passages I've studied, immediately after Jesus ceases His ministration in the heavenly sanctuary, meaning probation will have closed for the last person, the plagues begin. Somewhere around this same time, the beast is unmasked, and all of the world sees through his deception. Therefore, I cannot see how at this same time (post-probationary time) Satan could then be able to deceive anyone by impersonating Christ.
There is no clear statement from Mrs. White that says Satan personates Christ after probation's close. You refer to the chapter in Great Controversy, and that is fine. However, you cannot prove that the entire chapter is presented in chronological order, nor can you prove the entirety of its contents speak of events in post-probationary time. In fact, a careful reader can find many references within that chapter to times preceding probation's close, such as when Mrs. White clearly speaks of "now". In fact, let's look carefully at that passage, beginning with that point, and you'll see that we cross the line again into post-probationary time several pages later. I've color-coded the table to show where the switch occurs.
Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}
It is in this life that we are to separate sin from us, through faith in the atoning blood of Christ. Our precious Saviour invites us to join ourselves to Him, to unite our weakness to His strength, our ignorance to His wisdom, our unworthiness to His merits. God's providence is the school in which we are to learn the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. The Lord is ever setting before us, not the way we would choose, which seems easier and pleasanter to us, but the true aims of life. It rests with us to co-operate with the agencies which Heaven employs in the work of conforming our characters to the divine model. None can neglect or defer this work but at the most fearful peril to their souls. {GC 623.2}
The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}
Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is "the great power of God." Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}
But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}
And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known--witnessed by the whole world. {GC 625.2}
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief. {GC 625.3}
As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries and will thank God for "the munitions of rocks." Isaiah 33:16. But many of all nations and of all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {GC 626.1}
Will the Lord forget His people in this trying hour? Did He forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did He forget Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did He forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did He forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the prophets of Baal? Did He forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison house? Did He forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? {GC 626.2}
"Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of My hands." Isaiah 49:14-16. The Lord of hosts has said: "He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye." Zechariah 2:8. {GC 626.3}
Though enemies may thrust them into prison, yet dungeon walls cannot cut off the communication between their souls and Christ. One who sees their every weakness, who is acquainted with every trial, is above all earthly powers; and angels will come to them in lonely cells, bringing light and peace from heaven. The prison will be as a palace; for the rich in faith dwell there, and the gloomy walls will be lighted up with heavenly light as when Paul and Silas prayed and sang praises at midnight in the Philippian dungeon. {GC 627.1}
God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}
|
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}
|
In approximately the center of the still-probationary time passage quoted above, Ellen White speaks clearly of a testing time to come to every individual. Obviously, there is no need to test anyone after probation has closed. This is something God does during our probationary time. As a part of this test, Satan is allowed to personate Christ--but God's people will not be deceived, because they are grounded in a knowledge of the scriptures and because God will not permit Satan to imitate the manner of His coming.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
(bold emphasis mine)
Blessings Green,
You and others in this Forum insist on points that are moot and mundane! It doesn't matter if the angels know when probation closes. That is not a point to this discussion. Although, you haven't demonstrated whether the angels know or not.
The points are these; Sometime after probation has closed for the entire planet earth and all mankind, Satan will personate Christ on this earth. NOT before the close of probation. These points are completely true and factual. Period.
You can fabricate whatever you want out of "The Time of Trouble". But, you can't prove anything you have stated! So, to try and flip that and say I can't prove anything is simply foolishness. I have demonstrated from the Bible and Ellen White where I am correct and you are incorrect.
If you have a point to make, make it. But, you can't. That is what you need to admit to yourself.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 04:30 AM
Ellen White wrote;
The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob’s trouble. “Thus saith the Lord: We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.... All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” Jeremiah 30:5-7. {GC 616.1} (bold emphasis mine)
God's people are being tested just as Jacob was tested that night he wrestled with the Angel of the Lord.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 05:24 AM
I am wrestling with this myself, which is why I am reading this with great interest.
One thing that concerns me is that we all need to respect one another's differences in the manner of how we post in response to the way the other person believes. That is the only way we will win a person over to the truth of the matter, in this case being whether probation closes before or after the devil personates Christ's second coming.
I am definitely going to need to take a personal look at all of this myself.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 05:36 AM
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 05:57 AM
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 06:10 AM
Copied this from another forum that I will not name here:
Here is a section from the book “The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan” (otherwise known as the “Great Controversy,”) which speaks in detail of the appearance of Satan impersonating Christ, as revealed prophetically to Ellen White ( Who was Ellen White? ; Ellen White named by Smithsonian among the 100 most significant Americans of all time , EGW Link 2 );
“As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour’s advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: “Christ has come! Christ has come!” The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10.
“But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.
“And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ’s advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. “There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.... Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known—witnessed by the whole world.
“Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief.” {Great Controversy, by Ellen White, p. 624.2 - 625.3}
This leads me to think that it will happen just before probation closes, however, I am still in research mode.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 10:14 AM
Copied this from another forum that I will not name here:
Here is a section from the book “The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan” (otherwise known as the “Great Controversy,”) which speaks in detail of the appearance of Satan impersonating Christ, as revealed prophetically to Ellen White ( Who was Ellen White? ; Ellen White named by Smithsonian among the 100 most significant Americans of all time , EGW Link 2 );
“As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour’s advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: “Christ has come! Christ has come!” The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10.
“But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out.
“And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ’s advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. “There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.... Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known—witnessed by the whole world.
“Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief.” {Great Controversy, by Ellen White, p. 624.2 - 625.3}
This leads me to think that it will happen just before probation closes, however, I am still in research mode.
You are one in a long list of people who have quoted this from Ellen White. I don't see anything even remotely hinting that Satan's personation of Christ is before the final close of probation. But, everyone is free to believe what they want.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 10:29 AM
Again. It is the same question all over again! It is the same point all over again!
It doesn't make any sense for Satan to perform his most deceptive act after the close of probation!
I say; So what!?! It's not about us or our understanding of anything! What does the Bible and Ellen White teach about it? This is all that matters to me.
The Bible is clear in Revelation 16:12-16 and in Ellen White's writings as well that Satan personates Christ as a last desperate act after the close of probation. And no one has demonstrated anything contrary to that!
Please, I hope one of you can at least make your point.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/14/16 10:35 AM
At least this one mentions the sixth vial or plague.
Posted By: dedication
When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/19/16 09:43 PM
This topic was split off from the "Seven Heads" thread.
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/23/16 08:05 AM
What difference does it make whether we settle this question?
Personally I believe it is dangerous to be dogmatic in insisting that this greatest deception won't be sprung on the world until after probation is closed.
Why?
Because it pacifies -- it puts a "don't worry" feel to it, as the seal of God will already be upon the saved once probation is closed, and scripture says once probation is closed, "the righteous will be righteous still, and the wicked will be wicked still" -- it won't change anyone.
Now that doesn't mean it won't happen after probation is closed. It's quite likely to happen then. Satan could very well torture the persecuted saints with the illusion that Christ has come.
But it could also happen before probation's close, and it could deceive many who thought they would never be deceived.
The main thing is to KNOW
1. What the true second coming will be like!
There are so many belief systems expecting a Christ of some kind to appear on earth that the full measure of HUMAN REASONING PRESSURE to believe in a false Christ will be heavy duty pressure.
Are we solidly based on our understanding what the second coming of Christ will be like? If we know that from scripture, no matter in what form, or time satan pretends to be the coming Savior, we will recognize him as the imposter.
2. Realize that satan is not some mythical creature with horns, a tail and a pitch fork as he is often illustrated in pictures. But that he is a fallen angel, along with other fallen angels who have the ability to appear as angels of light and present seemingly very "good" things. "Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power…"
Believing that Satan personates Jesus before probation closes is not at all a "strange" idea. He is already doing it! Most realize that he, or one of his fallen angels, is personating Mary all over the world in increasing frequency. But it's not just Mary, he appears as "Jesus" as well.
Posted By: Charity
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/23/16 09:12 PM
What difference does it make whether we settle this question?
Personally I believe it is dangerous to be dogmatic in insisting that this greatest deception won't be sprung on the world until after probation is closed.
I agree. James White says in "Word to the Little Flock" that Satan's miracles will likely mainly be during the plagues just as most of the miracles of the magicians in Egypt were during the plagues, mimicking them. But I wouldn't for a moment rule out the possibility that many miraculous deceptions will take place before, including the impersonation of Christ. As you point out, we're already seeing them.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/24/16 04:43 AM
What difference does it make whether we settle this question?
Personally I believe it is dangerous to be dogmatic in insisting that this greatest deception won't be sprung on the world until after probation is closed.
Why?
Because it pacifies -- it puts a "don't worry" feel to it, as the seal of God will already be upon the saved once probation is closed, and scripture says once probation is closed, "the righteous will be righteous still, and the wicked will be wicked still" -- it won't change anyone.
Now that doesn't mean it won't happen after probation is closed. It's quite likely to happen then. Satan could very well torture the persecuted saints with the illusion that Christ has come.
But it could also happen before probation's close, and it could deceive many who thought they would never be deceived.
The main thing is to KNOW
1. What the true second coming will be like!
There are so many belief systems expecting a Christ of some kind to appear on earth that the full measure of HUMAN REASONING PRESSURE to believe in a false Christ will be heavy duty pressure.
Are we solidly based on our understanding what the second coming of Christ will be like? If we know that from scripture, no matter in what form, or time satan pretends to be the coming Savior, we will recognize him as the imposter.
2. Realize that satan is not some mythical creature with horns, a tail and a pitch fork as he is often illustrated in pictures. But that he is a fallen angel, along with other fallen angels who have the ability to appear as angels of light and present seemingly very "good" things. "Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power…"
Believing that Satan personates Jesus before probation closes is not at all a "strange" idea. He is already doing it! Most realize that he, or one of his fallen angels, is personating Mary all over the world in increasing frequency. But it's not just Mary, he appears as "Jesus" as well.
(bold emphasis mine)
Every error is sin, and every sin has its origin with Satan. Wrong practices have blinded the eyes and blighted the perceptive faculties of men and women. We need now to be guarded on every point. We need to seek the Lord while He may be found. Brother Starr, tell this to the unconcerned and indifferent. Gain their attention if you possibly can. Tell them that truth alone will stand the test in the great day of trial before us.
{Lt103-1903 (June 3, 1903) par. 5}[color:#000000][/color] (bold emphasis mine)
Personally, I believe it is teaching that Satan must personate Christ before the close of probation that is most dangerous. Because, by the time you learn your mistake, it is too late.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/24/16 08:25 AM
Sister White writes;
"Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. He will appear to his deluded followers, the Christian world who received not the love of the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (transgression of the law), as Christ coming the second time. {LDE 164.1}
He proclaims himself Christ, and he is believed to be Christ, a beautiful, majestic being clothed with majesty and, with soft voice and pleasant words, with glory unsurpassed by anything their mortal eyes had yet beheld. Then his deceived, deluded followers set up a shout of victory, “Christ has come the second time! Christ has come! He has lifted up His hands just as He did when He was upon the earth, and blessed us.”... {LDE 164.2}" (bold emphasis mine)
When will who be exposed?
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/24/16 10:42 AM
There is no danger in heeding Christ's words BEFORE probation closes.
The Lord Jesus warned in Mt.24:23:
"Then if anyone says to YOU, look here is the Christ! or 'There! Do not believe them."
Mt. 24:24-26: "For false Christ's and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. "See, I have told you beforehand. "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it."
If Satan doesn't personate Jesus before probation closes, no one would be deceived by it. He begins this great deception BEFORE probation closes.
The truth we need to know on the matter are Christ's warnings as quoted above.
As long as a person knows the TRUTH about Jesus, His ways, and the truth about HIS coming, they won't be deceived, no matter when or how satan tries to personate Christ.
The error of "too late" is for those who expect a Christ to physically appear on earth, instead of way the scriptures describe His second coming. They are the ones who will be deceived by the imposter.
Once probation closes it will be too late for them.
So what do you make of this??
The charismatic preacher Benny Hinn claims Jesus is appearing. There are accounts of Jesus face appearing on the balcony, etc.
I was preaching, I was actually ministering on a Sunday night to the sick when suddenly the people began screaming as the Lord's face appeared on the balcony. We have it on video. The Lord's face appeared on the balcony and what was so remarkable is right before that the same face appeared in the children's church on a blackboard. And a little child sitting there with crippled legs was healed instantly. The teacher comes running down from the balcony screaming and shouting, the kids are all behind her, telling us how the Lord had appeared up there. And when she came running down that's when the face of the Lord appeared in the main sanctuary. .. And what was even more remarkable is that night, that Sunday night service when I was having a healing service, as I was speaking the mouth was moving. The mouth ... the Lord's face was on the wall and you could see the mouth moving as I was speaking. .. (Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, April 21, 2000)
Benny Hinn is expecting Christ to physically appear with him on the platform while he's preaching.
Or what do you think of another charismatic preacher's book on
face to face encounters with Jesus. He teaches (and trains) people on the formula by which, if they follow it, Jesus will appear to them. According to him everyone can have Christ physically appearing to them. Not just once but 100's of times. And according to the reviews written concerning his book something is appearing to these people.
This prophet's account is astounding after having over hundreds of visitations!!! His first-hand account of these visitations from Jesus, are mind-boggling but very believable. I learned that Jesus can appear to anyone in a dream or physically in person through an open vision. It's supernatural and yet so very real!!!
A different reviewer wrote:
Jesus appeared to me after reading this book and I'm not ashamed to say it... this book is the REAL THING!!! You can watch my testimony on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/qU6-jByBQyg I was invited to a Pastor Benny Hinn crusade on Thursday through Friday. I’ve always liked going to Pastor Benny Hinn’s crusades. The presence of the Lord is so thick and glorious there. As we were in Pastor Benny’s Friday morning miracle service, during the beautiful atmosphere of worship, Jesus appeared walking up to me in the physical realm. He then began talking to me saying, “I’m sending you to this pastor’s church for a special purpose, and to bring a release and breakthrough to his personal life, destiny and ministry.”
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/25/16 04:56 AM
There is no danger in heeding Christ's words BEFORE probation closes.
The Lord Jesus warned in Mt.24:23:
"Then if anyone says to YOU, look here is the Christ! or 'There! Do not believe them."
Mt. 24:24-26: "For false Christ's and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. "See, I have told you beforehand. "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it."
If Satan doesn't personate Jesus before probation closes, no one would be deceived by it. He begins this great deception BEFORE probation closes.
The truth we need to know on the matter are Christ's warnings as quoted above.
As long as a person knows the TRUTH about Jesus, His ways, and the truth about HIS coming, they won't be deceived, no matter when or how satan tries to personate Christ.
The error of "too late" is for those who expect a Christ to physically appear on earth, instead of way the scriptures describe His second coming. They are the ones who will be deceived by the imposter.
Once probation closes it will be too late for them.
So what do you make of this??
The charismatic preacher Benny Hinn claims Jesus is appearing. There are accounts of Jesus face appearing on the balcony, etc.
I was preaching, I was actually ministering on a Sunday night to the sick when suddenly the people began screaming as the Lord's face appeared on the balcony. We have it on video. The Lord's face appeared on the balcony and what was so remarkable is right before that the same face appeared in the children's church on a blackboard. And a little child sitting there with crippled legs was healed instantly. The teacher comes running down from the balcony screaming and shouting, the kids are all behind her, telling us how the Lord had appeared up there. And when she came running down that's when the face of the Lord appeared in the main sanctuary. .. And what was even more remarkable is that night, that Sunday night service when I was having a healing service, as I was speaking the mouth was moving. The mouth ... the Lord's face was on the wall and you could see the mouth moving as I was speaking. .. (Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, April 21, 2000)
Benny Hinn is expecting Christ to physically appear with him on the platform while he's preaching.
Or what do you think of another charismatic preacher's book on
face to face encounters with Jesus. He teaches (and trains) people on the formula by which, if they follow it, Jesus will appear to them. According to him everyone can have Christ physically appearing to them. Not just once but 100's of times. And according to the reviews written concerning his book something is appearing to these people.
This prophet's account is astounding after having over hundreds of visitations!!! His first-hand account of these visitations from Jesus, are mind-boggling but very believable. I learned that Jesus can appear to anyone in a dream or physically in person through an open vision. It's supernatural and yet so very real!!!
A different reviewer wrote:
Jesus appeared to me after reading this book and I'm not ashamed to say it... this book is the REAL THING!!! You can watch my testimony on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/qU6-jByBQyg I was invited to a Pastor Benny Hinn crusade on Thursday through Friday. I’ve always liked going to Pastor Benny Hinn’s crusades. The presence of the Lord is so thick and glorious there. As we were in Pastor Benny’s Friday morning miracle service, during the beautiful atmosphere of worship, Jesus appeared walking up to me in the physical realm. He then began talking to me saying, “I’m sending you to this pastor’s church for a special purpose, and to bring a release and breakthrough to his personal life, destiny and ministry.”
Spiritism is Satanic.
But, these are nothing compared to when Satan actually puts on his show! Your comparing of these is very deceptive.
But, you are free to believe what you want to believe. But, this board sounds more evangelical all the time. We can have a number of competing ideas and they are all Biblical?? No. Only one can be correct. And we must find that one to be safe from Satan's deceptions.
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/25/16 08:07 AM
What I see in the religious world is a great movement to accept physical manifestations of Christ's appearing.
It's already coming.
Thousands of people think this is a "deeper intimacy" with Christ! The religious world is being conditioned to accept the deception.
Early stages of the deceptions prepare for later deceptions.
Early stages of the deceptions cause a lot of people to be lost even if the so called greatest showing of the deception is yet future.
This isn't about some theological debate that we can neatly put into a tightly sealed box and put a date on it when it can be opened, and tuck it away as being "nothing to worry about now".
This is an ONGOING thing.
It's already happening. Yes, it will increase in intensity.
Even after the 1000 years Satan will present himself as the rightful savior.
After the 1000 years he "claims to be the prince who is the rightful owner of the world and whose inheritance has been unlawfully wrested from him. He represents himself to his deluded subjects as a redeemer, assuring them that his power has brought them forth from their graves and that he is about to rescue them from the most cruel tyranny." GC 663
Does that mean Satan doesn't present himself as the world's redeemer prior to the millennium? Of course not. We KNOW he is doing that now already.
This simply shows his strategy -- a strategy that he is using RIGHT NOW, and will use with increasing intensity. True, it will increase in intensity.
And yes, it is VERY Biblical --
2 Cor. 11:14 Don't marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
satan is appearing as an angel of light, he is appearing as Christ himself RIGHT NOW and deceiving thousands of people.
People are being prepared to accept this as "true". They think they are inviting Jesus to come, and a being they believe is Christ, is physically (face to face) coming and talking to them!!!!
This will increase in frequency and intensity right up to the end of time. There is NO SAFETY thinking it's just going to be ONE display sometime after probation closes. Even though Satan will be masquerading as Christ at that time, and will be demanding the kings to issue the death degree -- it does not negate the fact he is already deceiving people appearing to them as Christ.
The restraint on the fallen angels is being loosened, as more and more people are inviting and seeking for this. The personations will get bolder and bolder and more and more visible.
Yet we have people on Adventist forums telling us we are deceptive when we warn people -- just because the "show" isn't yet as they imagine it will be.
The only way to be safe from Satan's deceptions is NOT in trying to find a date when this will happen, (for like all deceptions it is a growing, entrapping thing spread over time) The way to be safe is to KNOW Who the real Christ is, and to know from scripture in what manner the TRUE Christ will manifest Himself.
That should be our study.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/25/16 01:41 PM
We need to remember that Satan is never really exposed before the Second Coming of Christ! Remember, he is claiming to be Christ on the earth as well as an angel of light.
It's not until after the 1000 years that Satan is finally exposed for who he truly is and he loses his influence over the lost.
Posted By: kland
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 01/29/16 06:59 PM
It doesn't make any sense for Satan to perform his most deceptive act after the close of probation!
I say; So what!?! It's not about us or our understanding of anything! What does the Bible and Ellen White teach about it?
Is this a contradiction between these two statements?
Posted By: Daryl
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/03/16 11:57 PM
The following quote from Ellen G. White tells us that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes:The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided. {2SM 80.4}
This is an interesting quote in relation to the time when the devil will personate Christ.
It is obvious that the personation of Christ by the devil will happen sometime after the image of the beast has been formed, which in light of the events that are happening in the world, will be happening sooner than we think. Who knows what may be happening now behind the scene in regards to the forming of that image to the beast.
Posted By: His child
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/13/16 04:09 AM
The following quote from Ellen G. White tells us that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes:The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided. {2SM 80.4}
This is an interesting quote in relation to the time when the devil will personate Christ.
It is obvious that the personation of Christ by the devil will happen sometime after the image of the beast has been formed, which in light of the events that are happening in the world, will be happening sooner than we think. Who knows what may be happening now behind the scene in regards to the forming of that image to the beast.
Hi Daryl.
As I am the only man alive that I know of that predicted 8 times that Pope Benedict would not be pope in 2013 from my study of Daniel and Revelation, I think I have some insight on this as well that is worthy of consideration.
If you are interested
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/13/16 06:37 PM
The following quote from Ellen G. White tells us that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes:The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided. {2SM 80.4}
This is an interesting quote in relation to the time when the devil will personate Christ.
It is obvious that the personation of Christ by the devil will happen sometime after the image of the beast has been formed, which in light of the events that are happening in the world, will be happening sooner than we think. Who knows what may be happening now behind the scene in regards to the forming of that image to the beast.
Spiritualism is Satanic. And most of all, spiritualism is personation. Without personation, spiritualism is dead. There isn't near enough left to keep it alive.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/13/16 06:38 PM
It doesn't make any sense for Satan to perform his most deceptive act after the close of probation!
I say; So what!?! It's not about us or our understanding of anything! What does the Bible and Ellen White teach about it?
Is this a contradiction between these two statements?
No.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/13/16 06:49 PM
What I see in the religious world is a great movement to accept physical manifestations of Christ's appearing.
It's already coming.
Thousands of people think this is a "deeper intimacy" with Christ! The religious world is being conditioned to accept the deception.
Early stages of the deceptions prepare for later deceptions.
Early stages of the deceptions cause a lot of people to be lost even if the so called greatest showing of the deception is yet future.
This isn't about some theological debate that we can neatly put into a tightly sealed box and put a date on it when it can be opened, and tuck it away as being "nothing to worry about now".
This is an ONGOING thing.
It's already happening. Yes, it will increase in intensity.
Even after the 1000 years Satan will present himself as the rightful savior.
After the 1000 years he "claims to be the prince who is the rightful owner of the world and whose inheritance has been unlawfully wrested from him. He represents himself to his deluded subjects as a redeemer, assuring them that his power has brought them forth from their graves and that he is about to rescue them from the most cruel tyranny." GC 663
Does that mean Satan doesn't present himself as the world's redeemer prior to the millennium? Of course not. We KNOW he is doing that now already.
This simply shows his strategy -- a strategy that he is using RIGHT NOW, and will use with increasing intensity. True, it will increase in intensity.
And yes, it is VERY Biblical --
2 Cor. 11:14 Don't marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
satan is appearing as an angel of light, he is appearing as Christ himself RIGHT NOW and deceiving thousands of people.
People are being prepared to accept this as "true". They think they are inviting Jesus to come, and a being they believe is Christ, is physically (face to face) coming and talking to them!!!!
This will increase in frequency and intensity right up to the end of time. There is NO SAFETY thinking it's just going to be ONE display sometime after probation closes. Even though Satan will be masquerading as Christ at that time, and will be demanding the kings to issue the death degree -- it does not negate the fact he is already deceiving people appearing to them as Christ.
The restraint on the fallen angels is being loosened, as more and more people are inviting and seeking for this. The personations will get bolder and bolder and more and more visible.
Yet we have people on Adventist forums telling us we are deceptive when we warn people -- just because the "show" isn't yet as they imagine it will be.
The only way to be safe from Satan's deceptions is NOT in trying to find a date when this will happen, (for like all deceptions it is a growing, entrapping thing spread over time) The way to be safe is to KNOW Who the real Christ is, and to know from scripture in what manner the TRUE Christ will manifest Himself.
That should be our study.
(bold emphasis mine)
We should all know that Satan has been deceiving since his fall from Heaven. Deception has always been his game. So, I agree that we should always be on our guard against deception.
Well, to do that, we must be searching for the truth. We must be striving to be right! And understanding the truth should be our primary goal in life! Biblical truth and truth from God's prophets most of all.
As far as setting some date, I don't know of anyone doing that. But, the name of this thread is to discover if Satan personates Christ before or after the close of probation? We can know that much. And if that information is available, we should heed it.
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/16/16 09:15 AM
We need to know our Savior, and be living for Him. That should be our first goal in life. To know our Lord and His character and be daily dwelling with our thoughts and prayers in Him and in His Word.
We know that Satan will personate Christ during the last day deception. But we do NOT have information that would allow us to limit this appearance to a time after probation closes; -- we only know Satan will pretend to be Christ and deceive pretty much the whole world.
The more I study of prophecy the more I realize just how comprehensive and wide spread and multifaceted the last day deceptions will be.
There will be a lot of supernatural stuff going on the closer we get to the end.
Rebellion and apostasy are in the very air we breathe. We shall be affected by them unless we by faith hang our helpless souls upon Christ. If men are so easily misled now, how will they stand when Satan shall personate Christ, and work miracles? Who will be unmoved by his misrepresentations then--professing to be Christ when it is only Satan assuming the person of Christ, and apparently working the works of Christ? What will hold God's people from giving their allegiance to false christs? "Go not after them" (Luke 17:23) 2SM 394 (1897).
We do have a suggested sequence --
According to EW 261 Satan will raise an excitement in the churches before the National Sunday Law.
According to 5T 451:1,
the National Sunday Law will
open the door for the
marvelous workings by Satan.
When our {meaning the USA}country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1}
Revelation 13:13-14 tells us great signs and miracles will be performed to deceive the people --
With the repudiation of the constitution and the passing of the Sunday law, the door is opened allowing satanic wonders, appearances, and miracles on a wonder-working scale never before witnessed by human eyes.
According to 5 Testimonies, 451,
A. first will come the threefold union, Protestants join hands with Papists, cemented by spiritualism,
B. The constitution will be repudiated and the enactment
of the National Sunday Law, will begin.
C. then the marvelous working of Satan is unleashed--
There will be a lot of personations --
We already have a lot of "mary" personations appearing in our world.
The "apostles" will also "appear" --
Great Controversy, 557:1.
The heathen gods of other nations will appear --
—Testimonies to Ministers, 117:5-118:0.
And of course --
Satan will appear personating Christ.
In the book, Great Controversy, there are two mentions of Satan’s personation of Christ. The first is found on pages 588-589, and refers to a time before the close of probation.
The second is found in chapter 39 (pages 624-625).
Satan's personating Christ is not just a one time thing --that we can place as "before" OR "after" probation. It is something that is already taking place in a limited way, probation has not closed, it will become much more evident after the Sunday law is passed, and it will become more and more manifest the closer we come to the end.
His personation of Christ will be before AND after probation closes.
Whenever, or where ever we may encounter it or hear of it happening, we MUST heed the biblical warning:
“There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Matt. 24
I tremble for the people -- and pray that our anchor is strongly merged in our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, our rock and fortress, for He is a strong refuge, our Deliverer.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/17/16 03:55 AM
We need to know our Savior, and be living for Him. That should be our first goal in life. To know our Lord and His character and be daily dwelling with our thoughts and prayers in Him and in His Word.
We know that Satan will personate Christ during the last day deception.
But we do NOT have information that would allow us to limit this appearance to a time after probation closes; -- we only know Satan will pretend to be Christ and deceive pretty much the whole world.
The more I study of prophecy the more I realize just how comprehensive and wide spread and multifaceted the last day deceptions will be.
There will be a lot of supernatural stuff going on the closer we get to the end.
Rebellion and apostasy are in the very air we breathe. We shall be affected by them unless we by faith hang our helpless souls upon Christ. If men are so easily misled now, how will they stand when Satan shall personate Christ, and work miracles? Who will be unmoved by his misrepresentations then--professing to be Christ when it is only Satan assuming the person of Christ, and apparently working the works of Christ? What will hold God's people from giving their allegiance to false christs? "Go not after them" (Luke 17:23) 2SM 394 (1897).
We do have a suggested sequence --
According to EW 261 Satan will raise an excitement in the churches before the National Sunday Law.
According to 5T 451:1,
the National Sunday Law will
open the door for the
marvelous workings by Satan.
When our {meaning the USA}country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1}
Revelation 13:13-14 tells us great signs and miracles will be performed to deceive the people --
With the repudiation of the constitution and the passing of the Sunday law, the door is opened allowing satanic wonders, appearances, and miracles on a wonder-working scale never before witnessed by human eyes.
According to 5 Testimonies, 451,
A. first will come the threefold union, Protestants join hands with Papists, cemented by spiritualism,
B. The constitution will be repudiated and the enactment
of the National Sunday Law, will begin.
C. then the marvelous working of Satan is unleashed--
There will be a lot of personations --
We already have a lot of "mary" personations appearing in our world.
The "apostles" will also "appear" --
Great Controversy, 557:1.
The heathen gods of other nations will appear --
—Testimonies to Ministers, 117:5-118:0.
And of course --
Satan will appear personating Christ.
In the book, Great Controversy, there are two mentions of Satan’s personation of Christ. The first is found on pages 588-589, and refers to a time before the close of probation.
The second is found in chapter 39 (pages 624-625).
Satan's personating Christ is not just a one time thing --that we can place as "before" OR "after" probation. It is something that is already taking place in a limited way, probation has not closed, it will become much more evident after the Sunday law is passed, and it will become more and more manifest the closer we come to the end.
His personation of Christ will be before AND after probation closes.
Whenever, or where ever we may encounter it or hear of it happening, we MUST heed the biblical warning:
“There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Matt. 24
I tremble for the people -- and pray that our anchor is strongly merged in our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, our rock and fortress, for He is a strong refuge, our Deliverer.
(bold emphasis mine)
I disagree completely!
Revelation 16:12-16, talking about the sixth vial or plague, teaches us that Satan (the dragon Rev. 12:7-9) will be on the earth performing miracles to deceive the kings and inhabitants of the earth. There we have it! We know for sure that Satan will personate Christ after the close of probation.
People can believe whatever they want! But, the Bible is clear on this point. And I am not aware of anyplace in the Bible that teaches anything about this before the close of probation. At least, not during the time of the end.
Posted By: Rick H
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/17/16 11:35 AM
We just had a special presentation by a Adventist preacher, and he really opened our eyes on the Heavenly Sanctuary, and how it is a central pillar of not just Adventism, but throughout the Bible. But he said something that jumped out at me about what Satan will do when he tries to impersonate Christ, which just brought the reasons for the events of the end time together for me. He said that Satan will bring up or come with many renown religious leaders or figures, not just from the Christian world but from Islam and other religions. That makes sense why the whole world would unite with him especially if he makes his appearance at Jerusalem with what appears to be the 'virgin Mary', 'the prophet Mohammed', 'the Buddha', etc...
This would lead to all the world religions to accept him as a god-like figure with power to 'bring up the dead' so to speak, and to listen to his claims and eventually follow what he says. Which I personally believe will lead them to worship him and if he says it must be done on Sunday, to the National Sunday Law across the spectrum of all the religions thus across the world. Makes sense how the NSL come be spread so easily with broad support. Think about it........
Posted By: His child
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/27/16 04:10 AM
We just had a special presentation by a Adventist preacher, and he really opened our eyes on the Heavenly Sanctuary, and how it is a central pillar of not just Adventism, but throughout the Bible. But he said something that jumped out at me about what Satan will do when he tries to impersonate Christ, which just brought the reasons for the events of the end time together for me. He said that Satan will bring up or come with many renown religious leaders or figures, not just from the Christian world but from Islam and other religions. That makes sense why the whole world would unite with him especially if he makes his appearance at Jerusalem with what appears to be the 'virgin Mary', 'the prophet Mohammed', 'the Buddha', etc...
This would lead to all the world religions to accept him as a god-like figure with power to 'bring up the dead' so to speak, and to listen to his claims and eventually follow what he says. Which I personally believe will lead them to worship him and if he says it must be done on Sunday, to the National Sunday Law across the spectrum of all the religions thus across the world. Makes sense how the NSL come be spread so easily with broad support. Think about it........
Thanks for sharing this.
Posted By: His child
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 02/27/16 04:34 AM
When does the devil impersonate the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Is it before or after the close of probation?
It will be soon.
As I read scripture: the Judgment Hour of the dead has ended.
The time allotted for the Judgment Hour of the living has ended.
We are in the sealing time
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit cannot be far off.
There are two popes and Satan will be the third when he personates John-Paul II.
And ISIS is drying up the Euphrates River to prepare the way of the kings of the East.
Soon and very soon.
Posted By: His child
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 03/06/16 04:35 PM
After only 26 people checked out the link below, I thought: I can do better-- so I updated my previous post:
"Study Revelation in connection with Daniel, for history will be repeated" {1888 1491.1}
Isa_45:1 "Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;"
Dan 5:6 "Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed..."
During the orgy the night that ancient Babylon fell, the joints of the king's loins were loosed.
Dan 5:27 "TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting."
Dan 5:28 "PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given ..." [to those who Cyrus was to rule]
Dan 5:29 "They clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom." [Kings Nabonidus, Belshazzar, Daniel]
"Rev 18:2-3 "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...for all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her" [as ancient Babylon was fallen, so was papal Babylon]
Pope Benedict resigned 28 February 2013 in the midst of a fornication scandal that focused on its priests' "loose loins".
The prophetic earth is fallen: when USA committed the priests' fornication (gay sex) to be America's law of the land.
The Supreme Court of apostate protestant America was fallen on June 2015 when it embraced papal Babylon's fornication
Papal-Babylon now has two living popes/kings as ancient Babylon had 2 kings until Daniel was made 3rd ruler
There is soon to be a third pope/king when Babylon's history repeats.
Because ISIS is drying up the Euphrates River [people (Rev. 17:15) along Euphrates are fleeing for their lives]
"The pope is the Vicar of Christ"
When will Satan personate Christ? When history is repeated and Babylon has its third ruler/king?
Pope Francis is a Short-Timer - Loudcryer right again?
https://youtu.be/258evSZHtZ4 You don't have long to wait to see Satan personate Christ.
" Satan will not only appear as a human being, but he will personate Jesus Christ; and the world who has rejected the truth will receive him as the Lord of lords and King of kings. He will exercise his power, and work upon the human imagination." {RH, April 14, 1896 par. 6}
There is more, but this is a quick synopsis to say that Jesus is even at the door.
“Though no man knoweth the day nor the hour of His coming, we are instructed and required to know when it is near. We are further taught that to disregard His warning, and refuse or neglect to know when His Advent is near, will be as fatal for us, as it was for those who lived in the days of Noah not to know when the flood was coming. And the parable in the same chapter contrasting the faithful and the unfaithful servant, and giving the doom of him who said in his heart, ‘My Lord delayeth His coming,’ shows in what light Christ will regard and reward those whom He finds watching, and teaching His coming, and those denying it. ‘Watch therefore,’ He says; ‘blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when He cometh shall find so doing’ [Matthew 24:3, 33, 42-51]. ‘If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a Thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee’ [Revelation 3:3].” (GC88 370.2)
Christian regards.
Posted By: dedication
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ - 11/02/23 09:08 PM
Yes, to be in error is dangerous.
But what is the dangerous error?
1. not knowing HOW the true Christ will come.
it is that truth which must be firmly understood based firmly on Biblical evidence.
2. Also, anyone who thinks they can wait for "a sign" be it the Sunday law, or a personation event, before they seek the Lord and His salvation, is on extremely dangerous ground.
3, Thinking the events (Sunday law, personation event) are clear, distinct events, not anticipating a gradual conditioning preparatory process that will have people deceived into believing satan is the returned Christ, before the full manifestation is seen.
4. I believe we put too much emphases on trying to determine the exact sequence of events marking the close of probation. Probation can close today, either by death, or by having grieved the Holy Spirit to the point where we no longer hear His voice.
It's pure folly to look for signs to see how long one can procrastinate before probation closes. No matter if probation is still open for some when certain things happen, it could be too late for the procrastinator.
Those who are dogmatic that Satan will NOT personate Christ before the close of probation are in error. No one on this thread has said that Satan will not personate Christ after probation closes. In fact most believe satan will intensive that role after probation closes. However, to say satan will not personate Christ while probation is still open and while the saints have not yet received the final seal, is treading on very dangerous ground.
Satan is already personating Christ right now.
Just as he is personating Mary all over the world.
He doesn't spring the full, physical manifestation of himself as Christ on the whole world all at once. He does it in little steps.
Even in Adventism. Once, several decades ago, I attended a women's retreat. They had us all lie on mats on the floor and do some totally relaxing exercises, and then asked us to start imagining a beautiful garden, through guided suggestions, imagine the smells, the colors, feel the sunshine, then image Jesus walking toward us, then start imagining talking with Him and what He would say.
It was a strange experience and most realized something was seriously wrong with what we were being exposed to. Basically the attempt to guide us into alternate states of consciousness to encounter a supernatural being. The idea behind it is that if you go into this silent, relaxed state, you will eliminate all distracting thoughts and Christ can speak directly to you. You can experience him directly.
The problems are that the Bible becomes less and less important, the rise in mystical experiences escalates, and these experiences are preparing the unsuspecting that Christianity is about feeling, touching, smelling, and seeing God. Yet the exact same process is practiced by the occult to experience encounters demons.
The "emerging church" is based on these mystical experiences.
When it first entered Adventism, people rose up and pointed out it's dangers, but somehow, now we hardly hear of those dangers. Things have become a little more disguised and have gone rather "underground".
The last crises will be exactly what prophecy says it will be.
There will be an "emerging church" lead by the papacy, embraced by Christianity, in full unity with spiritualism, just like EGW said.
Protestantism will yet stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; she will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, our country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. {4SP 405.1}
When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with Spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and Republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan, and that the end is near.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 451
That is already underway!
What is Spiritualism -- it's all about demons personating the dead as well as personating heavenly beings. Spiritualists believe in a God?whom they refer to as ?infinite Intelligence??and that God holds each soul accountable for his actions and life choices, yet they believe humans are on a journey to godhood.
The demons (personating departed people) are preparing the world to receive a coming of supernatural beings (ascended masters- supposed ancient people who ascended to higher levels) as well as the return of the Christ. (personated)
In ?The Re-appearance of the Christ?, Djwhal Khul with Alice Bailey lay out the future of the Ageless Wisdom lineage, (Demons personating as ancient wise people) prophesying the next stage or transmission of the Hierarchy?s Plan for humanity in the New Era, to be ushered in with the guidance of an initiate who would re-awaken humanity to their higher nature once and for all. Djwhal Khul indicated that the presentation of the ?Great Invocation?, a prayer-based appeal given to Alice Bailey to disseminate widely, was particularly important at that time. The Great Invocation was instrumental in preparing mankind and our planet for higher energies of the New Era, and likewise in preparation for the return (re-appearance) of the Christ, in terms of a deeper embodiment of the energy available to all that was first earthed by the Master Jesus. Humanity as a whole was approaching a new stage of evolutionary growth and this work was pivotal in preparing the world for it. (Ageless Living, Alice Bailey and her writings)
Italicized sentence added.
The last crises will look very religious. It is and will be extremely deceptive.
The atheist beast, with all it's immorality, and open rejection of God, is not the last head.
The last (seventh) will be this three fold union. Spiritualism, apostate Protestantism, with the papacy as the human leader dictating the mandates.
Satan himself will appear as Christ to validate this last "political church", which he and his demons are already preparing people to embrace and making them ready to accept.