Lesson Study #11 - The Sanctuary and the LITTLE HORN

It's time to begin this week's study on The Sanctuary and the Little Horn located at the following link:

http://www.ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/06c/less11.html

This one should also be an interesting study and discussion.

The Sabbath Afternoon introductory section is so important in the introduction of this week's study, I am going to quote it here:

-----beginning of quote-----

Memory Text: "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man" (Hebrews 8:1, 2).

In the past few weeks, we have seen the emphasis that Daniel 8 has placed on the little horn. Obviously, it's an issue of great importance, considering the prominence given not only to its description but also to its explanation later in the chapter.

This week we're going to look even more closely at the little horn, focusing specifically on its attack against the "prince of the host," the "daily," and "the place of his sanctuary."

We're going to see, too, how central the idea of the heavenly sanctuary is to the chapter, for it's only in the context of the heavenly sanctuary and its services that we can get a better understanding of the little horn's assault.

This week's study also will help set the foundation for what will come later: a deeper look at the role of the sanctuary, and particularly its cleansing, in the context of the gospel and the entire plan of salvation, which, of course, leads into the great hope for all Christians everywhere: the second coming of Jesus.

-----end of quote-----

Daniel 8:9-12 (King James Version) says:

9And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

What are the specific things, according to the above text, that the little-horn power does?

The little horn, as I understand it:

1 - Conquered and became a world power.
2 - Conquered and became a world religious power.
3 - Took away the daily sacrifice by taking upon himself the daily functions of Christ as the heavenly High Priest of the first apartment of the Heavenly Sanctuary. It obviously wasn't the earthly one, as it no longer existed after the destruction of the earthly temple in 70 AD.
4 - Replaced the truth with a lie.
5 - Was a persecuting power against God's true and faithful people.

As Monday's study states, "It's clear that the sanctuary is under attack."

Monday's study further states, "Because the earthly sanctuary had been destroyed in A.D. 70, this was an attack on the heavenly sanctuary. The little horn, of course, would not get into heaven, so this, instead, would have been an attack on all that was symbolized by the sanctuary, which is the plan of salvation. Thus, the little horn attacks not only God's people but the plan of salvation, as well."

Tuesday's study is called The Attack.

What did the Little Horn attack, and how did they do it?

How is it that paganism has been turned into the heavenly sanctuary?
Uriah Smith and the pioneers correctly understood that the word "sacrifice" in Daniel 8:11 was supplied erroneously. "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein." Jeremiah 6:16. The old paths are what we must base our understanding of these verses in Daniel 8. In no way is the daily representing a work in the sanctuary in these verses in Daniel 8. Let us start a discussion and begin to understand how the pioneers of Adventism understood.

Maybe we should ask -- how did the heavenly sanctuary message become "paganism"?


William Miller made an important discovery -- that the word "sacrifices" was not in Daniel 8. It was a TREMEDOUS leap forward. Indeed it knocked Epiphanes right out of the picture.
But Miller and the Pre-Disappointment Adventists did not realize that this prophecy in Daniel 8 had anything to do with the heavenly sanctuary. For them the "cleansing of the sanctuary" in Daniel 8:14 meant the cleansing of the earth by fire at Christ's second coming.

These Millerites didn't see the heavenly sanctuary message in Daniel--
So they taught that the daily was paganism, etc. because it made good sense, after all at the end of the 2300 years, Christ was coming to cleanse the earth of the all the defilment the little horn etc. had wrought.


It helped them to escape from the "Epiphanes" deception which had locked the true understanding of Daniel 8 in B.C. times for centuries.

But does that mean we must continue to believe the "daily" is "paganism" any more than that the "cleansing of the sanctuary" was "this earth" to be cleansed by fire at the end of the 2300 years?

Did you know that Crosier and his fellow Bible students, immediately after the great disappointment opened the Bible and realized what the DAILY actually was -- and how it led to the day of atonement?

They discovered in scripture that the sanctuary (which was patterned after the heavenly sanctuary) has TWO apartments.

There are NO sacrifices EVER performed INSIDE either of these apartments. It is AFTER the sacrifice is complete that the priests enter the first apartment DAILY to minister.
Then at the end of the year -- the priest enters the second apartment.

Thus Christ, having completed the sacrifice upon the cross, ascended to heaven and entered the heavenly sanctuary, with His own blood to perform the DAILY.

So --
Christ was preforming the DAILY MINISTRY from 34 A.D. to 1844.
And it was during this time that the HORN took upon itself the ministration of Christ's DAILY, and rejected the true.


By the way Crosier's study was THE study to open the eyes of the disappointed Adventist to realize Daniel 8 is about Christ and the HEAVENLY SANCTUARY.
They just were somewhat slow in letting go of all their former ideas.

-----------
Some quotes from EGW stating the same in the context of Daniel 8- if you want to go and read the whole (pages 409,417-421 GC)

After his ascension, our Saviour began his work as our high priest. Says Paul, "Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." [HEB. 9:24.]

The ministration of the priest throughout the year in the first apartment of the sanctuary, "within the veil" which formed the door and separated the holy place from the outer court, represents the work of ministration upon which Christ entered at his ascension. It was the work of the priest in the daily ministration to present before God the blood of the sin-offering, also the incense which ascended with the prayers of Israel. So did Christ plead his blood before the Father in behalf of sinners, and present before him also, with the precious fragrance of his own righteousness, the prayers of penitent believers. Such was the work of ministration in the first apartment of the sanctuary in Heaven. {GC88 420.3}

For eighteen centuries this work of ministration continued in the first apartment of the sanctuary. The blood of Christ, pleaded in behalf of penitent believers, secured their pardon and acceptance with the Father, yet their sins still remained upon the books of record. As in the typical service there was a work of atonement at the close of the year, so before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended. At that time, as foretold by Daniel the prophet, our High Priest entered the most holy, to perform the last division of his solemn work,--to cleanse the sanctuary. {GC88 421.2}


This puts Daniel 8:14 in it's proper contextual setting.
As there could be no YOM KIPPUR with the HATAMID. One must precede the other.

Next I want to ask

WHEN DID THE 2300 begin?

What marked it's beginning?

Why wasn't Babylon mentioned?

Why only two "temple" creatures to represent the first two kingdoms (MediaPersia,Greece) and NO "temple" creature to represent Rome?

When did the 2300 years begin?

We must look to Daniel 9 for that --

The 2300 years began with a command for the PLACE of God's sanctuary to be rebuilt.

Interesting!

You see the PLACE of God's sanctuary prior to Christ's incarnation, death, resurrection and ascension, was in Jerusalem!

When Daniel received this vision, the PLACE of the sanctuary, as well as the sanctuary itself was in RUINS.

The 2300 years BEGIN when the earthly sanctuary was restored!

Why wasn't Babylon mentioned?

If the "daily" were paganism then surely Babylon should be mention for Babylon is the very cradle and originator of paganism.


Some will say -- well, Babylon had already fallen by the time of the vision, BUT THAT IS FALSE-- Babylon was still in power at the time of the vision of Daniel 8.


The reason Babylon is not mentioned is because this prophecy is NOT about paganism IT'S ABOUT CHRIST and the sanctuary work.
The TIMING (2300 years) does NOT BEGIN, until the PLACE and the SANCTUARY is rebuilt. "From the going forth of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem -- 457 B.C.

This was the PLACE of God's redemptive work for the first 490 years of the 2300 year prophecy.

That's all quite clear when we match Daniel 9 with Daniel 8.

Now we've answered the first questions, how about the last one:

Why only two "temple" creatures to represent the first two kingdoms (MediaPersia,Greece) and NO "temple" creature to represent Rome?

The two "animals" depict the two empires ruling while the earthly sanctuary was still the center of God's salvation work.


The first -- a ram -- or sheep is the kingdom which used it's power to restore God's sanctuary. Cyrus is called the Lord's shepherd in scripture!

2 Chr. 36:23 and Ezra 1:2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem,
Ezra 6:3 In the first year of Cyrus the king [the same] Cyrus the king made a decree [concerning] the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly
Ezra 6:14 And they builded, and finished [it], according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

That signals THE BEGINNING of the 2300 days --

Paganism does NOT signal the beginning of the 2300 days.

Re-establishing THE PLACE of God's sanctuary in Jerusalem in 457 establishes the beginning of the 2300 days.

The second sacrificial animal -- Greece -- also had it's empires during the time when "the PLACE of God's sanctuary" was in Jerusalem.

But this animal typified the opposing forces -- (as in the sheep and goats) they polluted the truths of the Jewish religion with their greek philosophy and hellinism, and even literally trampled on the temple while it was still "GOD'S PLACE".

But Rome has no sacrificial animal representing it. Why?

When Rome first comes into play the REAL SACRIFICE also comes -- Jesus Christ.
The sacrificial rituals END.

The PLACE of God's sanctuary is transferred -- TO HEAVEN.

As Daniel 9 (which is the inspired explanation of Daniel 8 ) tells us --
Messiah the Prince is cut off (crucified) for the transgressions of the people in the midst of the 70th week at the end of the first 490 years of the 2300 prophecy.

Christ came to CONFIRM THE COVENANT -- (Daniel 9:27 see also Hebrews 10:16-23)

So from 457 B.C. to 34 A.D.
The PLACE of God's sanctuary was Jerusalem

At the end of the 490 years all animal sacrifices ended,
Christ ascended into the heaven to begin the work IN THE FIRST APARTMENT, the daily ministration, as we pointed out earlier.

The PLACE of God's sanctuary was now transfered to HEAVEN
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself,

Rome has no sacrifical animal depicting it for sacrifices came to an end -- there was no more need for animal sacrifices.

The DAILY from this point on needs no more sacrifices for Christ completed the all sufficent sacrifice at the end of the 490 years.


What ended in 1844?

From 34 A.D. till 1844 A.D.
Christ was ministering the daily of the HOLY PLACE of the heavenly sanctuary (not the Most Holy).

Even though the "daily" was taking place from 457 right up until 1844
first upon earth in the earthly sanctuary through human priests,
YET the blood of sheep and goats couldn't take away any sins,

BUT at the end of the 490 years Christ Himself with His own blood enters the heavenly sanctuary to begin His ministry there.

From 31 AD to 1844 Christ ministers in the HOLY PLACE of the heavenly sanctuary.

In 1844 the "daily" in the "holy place" ENDS

Christ enters upon the work in the MOST HOLY.
Which is the final work just prior to His second coming.



What was the little horn (papacy) doing during the time Christ was ministering the daily in the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary?

Rome came along and "pulls down THE PLACE of the sanctuary" -- the place of the sanctuary is not in heaven it is in ROME! The "eternal city" as it is called.
Daniel 11:30 - 32 shows Rome stands against THE HOLY COVENANT which Christ came to confirm
he pollutes the sanctuary of strength, and takes away the daily, and erects or consecrates his own abomination in its place.

Paganism neither began in 457 nor ended in 1844.
Paganism, papacy, transgression etc. all continue in ever increasing strength after 1844 till now. The 1260 and 1290 days tell us the time length that the papacy has POWER to enforce her abomination, but that is a subset within the 2300 years.

The 2300 years are all about Christ's sanctuary work.

The first 490 years belong to the earthly sanctuary in Jerusalem.
The remaining 1810 years belong to Christ's DAILY ministry in the holy place. In 1844, at the end of the 2300 years, that ministry in the HOLY PLACE ended.
And the new ministry in the MOST HOLY PLACE began.


"The question, What is the sanctuary? is clearly answered in the Scriptures. The term sanctuary, as used in the Bible, refers, first, to the tabernacle built by Moses, as a pattern of heavenly things; and, secondly, to the "true tabernacle" in Heaven, to which the earthly sanctuary pointed. At the death of Christ the typical service ended. The "true tabernacle" in Heaven is the sanctuary of the new covenant. And as the prophecy of Dan. 8:14 is fulfilled in this dispensation, the sanctuary to which it refers must be the sanctuary of the new covenant. GC88 417
The ministration of the earthly sanctuary consisted of two divisions; the priests ministered daily in the holy place, while once a year the high priest performed a special work of atonement in the most holy, for the cleansing of the sanctuary....
the sin was, through the blood, transferred in figure to the sanctuary......
Such was the work that went on, day by day, throughout the year. The sins of Israel were thus transferred to the sanctuary, and a special work became necessary for their removal.
For eighteen centuries this work of ministration continued in the first apartment of the sanctuary. The blood of Christ, pleaded in behalf of penitent believers, secured their pardon and acceptance with the Father, yet their sins still remained upon the books of record. As in the typical service there was a work of atonement at the close of the year, so before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended.(GC 420-421)

There can be no YOM KIPPUR without the HATAMID.

Dedication, maybe your the person who can tell me how to get Sola Scriptua to Jesus working for 1800 years with daily priest work?

Daniel 7,8,9
clearly outlines that.

That's why I find it so amazing that a group of SDA's will shoot themselves right out of the sanctuary doctrine with the insistance that the DAILY is 'paganism'.

As I mentioned in my first post on this thread --

The very first serious Bible studies by Adventists after the Great disappointment, on Daniel 8 (before any visions from Ellen White) realized the true role of the DAILY.


Crosier and his friends, were studying out the meaning of the word "sanctuary".

"It is manifest that both Moses and David had prophetic visions of the New Jerusalem with its Sanctuary and Christ, the officiating Priest." (see 1 Chr. 28:10-12,19; Ex. 25:8,9; 25:40; Hebrews 8:5)

They studied Christ's priesthood.

How in every instance both the heavenly sanctuary and Christ's ministry therein was so much greater than that of the earthly, and yet the earthly was patterned after the heavenly.

They studied the word atonement --

And found that in scripture, the sacrifice is the MEANS for atonement, but not the end of atonement.
"[We]learn that the words atone, cleanse, reconcile, purify, purge, pardon, sanctify, hallow, forgive, justify, redeem, blot out, and some others, are used to signify the same work, viz., bringing into favour with God; and in all cases blood is the means."

This is where the DAILY comes in:

" The atonement which the priest made for the people in connection with their daily ministration was different from that made on the tenth day of the seventh month (The day of atonement).

"In making the former, (their daily ministration) they went no further than in the Holy; but to make the latter they entered the Holy of Holies - the former was made for individual cases, the latter for the whole nation of Israel collectively - the former was made for the forgiveness of sins, the latter for blotting them out - the former could be made at any time, the latter only on the tenth day of the seventh month. Hence the former may be called the daily atonement and the latter the yearly, or the former the individual, and the latter the national atonement.

So in Daniel 7,8,9 we have outlined Christ's complete fulfilment of the earthly sanctuary types.


Daniel 9 --
We have the earthly sanctuary rebuilt and 490 years of the 2300 are given to it till Messiah the Prince comes.

Daniel 9 -- Christ fulfils the sacrificial part of the sanctuary message.
He is "cut off" crucified for our transgressions.
He causes all sacrifices and oblations to cease with His "once and for all sacrifice".

The "courtyard" of the sanctuary represents this earth -- Christ first died upon the cross upon this earth BEFORE He entered the work of the heavenly sanctuary with His own blood to minister the DAILY there.

Daniel 8 -- centers on THE DAILY in the Holy Place --
You will notice that the word "sacrifice" IS NOT PART of Daniel 8's Daily which the horn lifts off. By the time the horn comes on the scene the once and for all sacrifice is complete.

So Daniel 8 shows us the Daily ministration of Christ in the Holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, which begins at His ascension and continues for the remaining 1810 years of the 2300 year prophesy.

Daniel 7 -- centers on Christ's work in the MOST HOLY, the heavenly judgement scene
This takes place AFTER the 1260 years when the little horn wielded it's deadly power.
Thrones are placed, the court is seated, the Son of Man (man's representative --Jesus Christ) is brought before the court, and to Him is given the dominion and kingdom. He in turn declares
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels...they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. (Rev. 3:4,6)
Daniel 7 then shows these saints inheriting the dominion and kingdom with Christ and this kingdom will last forever!

Dedication,

You now have access into the SDA Church Issues forum where another topic on this also exists.

Thank-you,
I will have a look.

Why does the prophesies in Daniel go in reverse chronological order? Why not beginn with crusifiction, move on to holy and the end with the most holy?

To accept your position is to reject EGWhite. She plainly identifies that the pioneers were incorrect on their understanding of the sanctuary. But in Early Writings page 74, she plainly says they were correct on the daily. If we are going to accept the SOP we cannot pick and choose.
In terms of dealing with Crosier, Crosier did teach the incorrect position of the daily in his article. But his article was the clearest presentation of Christ moving from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place that had been written up to that time. Sister White recommended his article to every saint. Shortly thereafter his article was reprinted. The editor of the reprinting was James White. The second printing Crosiers false view was removed from the article. It was only printed one more time. It was as James White had it. Every SDA historian has looked at the history of Crosiers article and concluded almost unanimously that Sister Whites endorsement was only dealing with Christ moving from the Holy Place to the most Holy Place. To use your reasoning on the Crosier article is deceptive at worst and uninformed at minimum. As to the position that the 2300 days beginning when the earthly sanctuary was restored denies Adventism completely and is heresy.
I have not responed to your questions alone and we have gathered for the Sabbath day and answered your questions before we started worship.

For all of the experts that claim the daily was Christ's sanctuary ministry answer this please: Daniel 8:13 is a question about duration of time. The question is how long? It is not about a point in time or it would be WHEN. It is about duration. How long? How long is the vision? This vision is chazown in the Hebrew. It means complete vision. So the question is how long is the complete vision. The complete vision concerning WHAT? The Daily and the Transgression of Desolation. The pioneers believe the Daily is paganism. The modern theologians that have reverted to the old Protestant view that the Daily is Christ's sanctuary ministry disagree with each other. The pioneers and the modern theologians agree that the Transgression of Desolation is the Papacy. The verse also tells what the Daily and the Transgression of Desolations will do. They are going to desolate the sanctuary and the host. So, the pioneers say the Daily is paganism and the Transgression of Desolation is papalism. But you modern theologians teach that the daily and the trangression of desolation are both papalism. Therefore the question is, concerning duration, how long is the vision-the complete vision- of Daniel 8 that begins with paganism and goes through papalism? Or how long is the vision concerning papalism? We all know the answer. It is in the following verse. 1844. If you believe the vision is simply of papalism removing the work of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary the earliest the vision can start is 31 AD, although the papacy wasn't in existence then. But if you started in 31 AD and add 2300 years you don't come to 1844. You come to 2331. If you maintain the pioneer position that the Daily is paganism and the complete vision of paganism in Daniel 8 begins in the times of the Medes and Persians, the very time of the three decrees then you have the historical justification for beginning the complete vision in 457 and you end in 1844. To believe the Daily is Christ Sanctuary ministry as the Protestants did before W. Miller is to destroy 1844 and the foundation of Adventism.

Happy Sabbath!!

Jason,



You now have access into the SDA Church Issues forum where this topic is also being discussed.

No, brother, I do not reject EGW.

When the issue of the daily being Christ's ministery or "paganism" came to the fore, several well meaning men used the one quote in Early Writings to combat it. However, she plainly told them not too -- that she had no light on the issue NOW under discussion.

I fully accept the issues she was addressing in Early writings:
1. the word "sacrifice" is not part of the daily in Daniel 8 for Christ's once and for all sacrifice was complete.
2. the time periods of the 1260,1290 and 2300 days were correct.

I think the moderator wants us to deal with these issues on the other thread.

Personally I don't think you understand our position at all, for you have stated several things as being my position that I do not agree with at all.


Let's just say now -- to clarify some of the misconceptions.



The 2300 days began in 457 BC when the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (THE PLACE OF GOD'S SANCTUARY during the 490 years allotted to the Jewish people) which included the restoration of the earthly temple which was GOD'S TEMPLE during those 490 years. (Daniel 9)

At the end of the 490 years, Christ came, died the all sufficient sacrifice which once and for all ended the animal sacrifices and ceremonies. (Daniel 9)

Then for the remaining 1810 years, Christ entered the heavenly HOLY PLACE, with His own blood, to be our HIGH PRIEST, performing the services of the daily within the holy place. (See Hebrews)

During those remaining 1810 years, the little horn started it's career --

Christianity had spread far and wide as dedicated people preached the gospel. Many strong Christian groups were very much opposed to the paganism within the papal system. Then along came Clovis, king of the Franks, who "converted" to Catholism -- 508 -- the date which began the long period when the papacy had an army.
Do you realize that the nations that had to be WIPED OUT before the papacy received her supremacy were not pagan BUT CHRISTIAN? Christians who looked to CHRIST AS THEIR ROCK, and Savior.
Clovis defeated the Visigoths. Future Frankish kings repeatedly came to the aid of the papacy. Pepin being one of them.

The same army "the Franks" that began to lend it's power to the papacy in 508, deposed the papacy in 1798 when Napolean's general took the pope captive and Napolean made a whole new set of laws that took away power from the papacy.

Justinian, the Eastern Roman Emperor, also got rid of CHRISTIAN NATIONS -- The Ostergoths that occupied Italy were Christians.
Justinian's army drove them out and made the laws giving the pope the duty to exterminate heretics -- that started the 1260 years, which of course also ended in 1798 when those laws were reversed by Napolean.




The 2300 days do NOT outline either the length of paganism nor the length of the papacy. For neither began nor ended in that time period.
Paganism was strong long before "the rebuilding of Jerusalem" nor did it end yet. The Papacy itself never ended either. It did not end in 1844. The ABOMINATION THAT DESOLATES -- that is the ability to enforce and persecute people into subjection lasted from 538-1798.


Those are the time periods we are dealing with here


The question --

How long the vision? -- 2300 years (457 BC- 1844 AD)



How long does the papal Rome practice the abomination (by force setting itself in the place of God) Daniel 12:11 gives us that time period. --1290 years. (508 when they receive their army, till 1798 when the same nation's army takes away his power)

How long are the saints trampled under foot -- Both Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7 gives us that time period -- 1260 years. (538-1798).

Those dates are all within the 2300 years.



457---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1844 --sanctuary cleansing

457BC-------490 years-------34AD------------------------------------------------------1844----------
God's earthly sanctuary...........Christ's Daily in the heavenly sanctuary................... In the Most Holy

..........................................508----------1290 years---------------------1798
...........................................Christ's daily -- usurped/eclipsed by Rome
.......................................................abomination set up

.................................................538----------1260 years-----------------1798
................................................God's people trampled

You are welcome to also continue the discussion here.

I only wanted to make you aware of the other related topic.

O.K.
I'd like to answer some more of these objections.




Yet, Crosier and his companions could never have reached the conclusion of Christ moving from the holy place into the most holy in Daniel 8:14, without ascribing THE DAILY as the fulfilment of Christ's work in the holy place which must precede the work of cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary.

In the earthly sanctuary an important and chief work of the DAILY in the holy place consisted of the priest carrying blood representing the forgiven sins into the Holy Place and sprinkling it before the veil before the Most Holy place and on the horns of the golden altar. These blood drops recorded the fact that sins had been forgiven and were covered by blood -- pardoned. Without this tamid ministry for the penitent who thus sent their sins before to the judgemnt, the annual Yom Kippur or cleansing of the sanctuary, could not be carried out for it makes no sense if there is no previous Tamid.

At His ascension Christ, with His own blood entered the sanctuary -- the holy Place.

In Great Controversy "What is the Sanctuary" EGW uses much of Crosier's material to explain -- read the whole chapter-- here's just a quote:

"And what was done in type in the ministration of the earthly sanctuary is done in reality in the ministration of the heavenly sanctuary. After His ascension our Saviour began His work as our high priest. Says Paul: "Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." Hebrews 9:24. {GC 420.2}
The ministration of the priest throughout the year in the first apartment of the sanctuary, "within the veil" which formed the door and separated the holy place from the outer court, represents the work of ministration upon which Christ entered at His ascension. It was the work of the priest in the
daily ministration to present before God the blood of the sin offering, also the incense which ascended with the prayers of Israel. So did Christ plead His blood before the Father in behalf of sinners, and present before Him also, with the precious fragrance of His own righteousness, the prayers of penitent believers. Such was the work of ministration in the first apartment of the sanctuary in heaven. {GC 420.3}

These sins that are confessed and repented of by the Christian and sent to the sanctuary to be covered by Christ's blood, "defiled" the Sanctuary, and required a removal on the "cleansing of the sanctuary" day.

It is when Christians do not understand "THE DAILY" that they can't understand a need for the day of atonement or cleansing of the sanctuary.

Satan has obliterated knowledge of "the daily" ministry of Christ the High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary from the theology of Christians. Thus he has rendered meaningless the "yearly" or FINAL cleansing of the sanctuary at the end of the 2300 years.

But to say they do not begin at that time denies Adventism completely!

Every Adventist should know this --

In Daniel 9 the angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel for the express purpose of explaining to him the point which he had failed to understand in the vision of the eighth chapter, the statement relative to time.

The angel tells Daniel that 490 years or (70 weeks) are "chopped off" or determined for Daniel's people. Cut off from what?
Cut off from the bigger time period of the last vision -- cut off from the 2300 years.

And what begins these 490 years (which also mark the beginning of the 2300 years?)

How can this be "heresy" when Gabriel himself reveals it to Daniel.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince ....

The 2300 years begin with the command to rebuild THE PLACE OF GOD'S SANCTUARY, including THE SANCTUARY which for 490 years of the 2300 was on this earth in Jerusalem.


It was the RAM -- Media Persia, who--
1. Set the Israelites free from their captors
2. Gave the decrees to rebuild the temple, and the city.
3. Helped finance the rebuilding

This begins the 2300 years. Surely there must be some significance to all this which is straight from the Bible.
I'm really surprised that any Adventist would call it heresy!


Ezra 1:2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which [is] in Judah.
Ezra 6:14 And they builded, and finished [it], according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.
6:15 And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.
6:16 And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house of God with joy,

Thus yes, the 2300 years starting with the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 marks the rebuilt earthly temple which begins the 2300 years, and which would be God's temple for the 490 of the 2300 years.

Exactly -- the 2300 days cover the complete vision.
It covers the time period from the restoration of the PLACE of the sanctuary and the sanctuary services in 457 BC.
Includes the 490 years when that temple was God's place for dealing with the sin problem. (During the reign of the Ram and Goat) It then covers the 1810 years (notice no sacrificial animals to symbolize powers here) when Christ ministered the Daily in the heavenly sanctuary (but a there is a horn eclipsing that ministry with it's own blasphemy) and ends with the beginning of the "cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary' in 1844.

Turn to Daniel 12 and we find the time period when the daily is removed and the abomination that causes desolation is set up is 1290 years not 2300 years.

In Daniel 12 we also find the time period when the saints are trampled and being broken is 1260 years, not 2300 years.

By your own reasoning the abomination that causes desolation cannot be the papacy itself for it did not end in 1844 -- what ended (in 1798 not 1844) was the POWER of the papacy to enforce her dogmas legally.

Nor did oppression by paganism begin in 457-- horrendous oppression by paganism occured (not by the Ram) but by the residents surrounding Jerusalem for the full 120 years prior to 457 as the Israelites returned and tried to rebuild.

Also Imperial Rome switched from outright paganism to a form of Christianity in 312, not 508.
By 508 the biggest obstacle to papal supremacy was not paganim, but Christians who failed to acknowledge the pope as the continuation of Peter's ministry as THE ROCK upon which the church was built with the keys of divine authority. The "Arian" (by the way Rome called them all arian whether they truly were or not) nations were not pagan, nor did they reflect the evil of paganism as Rome would have us believe. Clovis was far more pagan then the Ostergoth king Theodore. These nations were Christians converted by zealous NON-roman missionaries like Ulifias. Rome would have us believe they exterminated pagan heretics and presevered the true faith, when in actuality it was the other way around. From 508 -538 there were major campaigns to rid Europe of the Christian nations that stood in opposition to the pope and bring all Christiandom under the power of the pope.

These happenings are all subsets of the 2300 days.

The true beginning and ending events of the 2300 years are not marked by these things, but by the events concerning God's sanctury.
The 2300 years begin in 457 when the final decree for the restoration of THE PLACE OF GOD'S SANCTUARY is given.
And end when Christ finishes His "daily" in the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and enters the Most Holy.

By recognizing the daily as Christ's ministry we have a consistant view in Daniel of both heaven's involvement and earth's response --
We see the the continuous revelation of Christ and HIS work in saving mankind,
while down below the forces marshall to obstruct and fight against that revelation.







But papalism didn't end in 1844.
It's blasphemies teachings actually increased at this time.
The legal power of papalism to enforce her dogmas lasted from 538-1798.

These happenings are all subsets of the 2300 days.

The true beginning and ending events of the 2300 years are not marked by these things, but by the events concerning God's sanctury.

The 2300 years begin in 457 when the final decree for the restoration of THE PLACE OF GOD'S SANCTUARY is given.
And end when Christ finishes His "daily" in the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and enters the Most Holy.

By recognizing the daily as Christ's ministry we have a consistant view in Daniel of both heaven's involvement and earth's response --
We see the the continuous revelation of Christ and HIS work in saving mankind, without any gaps,
while down below the forces marshall to obstruct and fight against that revelation.




No, I don't believe that --
papalism removing the work of Christ is part of the subset 1290 and 1260 year periods, which lasted form 508, 538 to 1798.


I find my position far better outlines those dates than yours.
For the decrees mark the restoration of GOD'S EARTHLY sanctuary in 457 BC, not the beginning of pagan oppression.
And the end date 1844 does not mark end date of the papacy.



I cannot agree, for our position upholds it -- and I have met many of the opposition to our doctrine with clear scripture support to uphold it.
W. Miller never understood the sanctuary doctrine, so how could he have taught it?

Also the "old Protestant view" never, never, believed the daily was Christ's ministry in the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary.
Most of the Protestants, while they believed the little horn of Daniel 7 was the papacy, still taught the horn of Daniel 8 was Ephiphanes-- you can look up John Calvin's commentary on the internet to verify that.

If by "the old Protestant position" you mean the saving Priestly work of Christ, who alone can bring forgiveness and cleansing, surely you do not reject that?

My position is vastly different from the "old protestant" position on Daniel 8, and upholds the sanctuary doctrine 100%

Thank-you for your comments --
and keep studying to find Christ and the revelation of HIS work of redemption in these prophecies.