Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel

Posted By: Daryl

Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/11/06 04:48 AM

Time to get into this week's study, which can be directly accessed from the following link:

http://www.ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/06d/less11.html
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/11/06 04:58 AM

The Memory Text is fitting to the title of this weeks study.

Quote:

"Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed" (Genesis 32:28).


Looking at this week's and last week's studies, how did he ever prevail?
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/12/06 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
how did he ever prevail?


Here's one way:
Quote:
Jacob "had power over the Angel, and prevailed." Hosea 12:4. Through humiliation, repentance, and self-surrender, this sinful, erring mortal prevailed with the Majesty of heaven. He had fastened his trembling grasp upon the promises of God, and the heart of Infinite Love could not turn away the sinner's plea. {PP 197.1}
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/13/06 12:02 AM

And that is the only we can also prevail.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/13/06 12:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
And that is the only we can also prevail.


Where does John 15:5 enter into our prevailing experience?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 12:21 AM

Quote:

John 15:5 I (Jesus) am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.


We can only prevail through our connection with Jesus Christ.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 12:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
Quote:

John 15:5 I (Jesus) am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.


We can only prevail through our connection with Jesus Christ.


Who prevails then, Jesus or I?

How pong do I need to prevail?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 12:38 AM

I said "we prevail" did I not?

Whoever is connected to Jesus Christ prevails.

We prevail as long as we are connected.

I prevail as long as I am connected.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 12:39 AM

Getting back to Jacob, how is it that he finally prevailed?
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 02:38 AM

Does Jesus pevail on my behalf?

How long do I need to prevail by being in Christ? When does the time arrive when I can say, Thanks! Now I can manage from here on?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 02:46 AM

Good question.

What's your answer?
Posted By: Tom

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 03:24 AM

"Connected" seems to be rather a nebulous concept. What does it mean?

Quote:
Does Jesus prevail on my behalf?

How long do I need to prevail by being in Christ? When does the time arrive when I can say, Thanks! Now I can manage from here on?


These are good questions! It might be helpful to define these phrases as well.
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 05:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
how is it that he finally prevailed?


All penitent and broken, he clung to the Angel; "he wept, and made supplication" (Hosea 12:4), pleading for a blessing. He must have the assurance that his sin was pardoned. Physical pain was not sufficient to divert his mind from this object. His determination grew stronger, his faith more earnest and persevering, until the very last. The Angel tried to release Himself; He urged, "Let Me go, for the day breaketh;" but Jacob answered, "I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me." Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God. {PP 196.3}

Helpless and unworthy, he pleaded God's promise of mercy to the repentant sinner. That promise was his assurance that God would pardon and accept him. Sooner might heaven and earth pass than that word could fail; and it was this that sustained him through that fearful conflict. {PP 198.5}
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
how is it that he finally prevailed?


- - - Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God. {PP 196.3}

- - -


Who is faithful?

Are we tied through a covenant to God?
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/15/06 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
how is it that he finally prevailed?


- - - Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God. {PP 196.3}

- - -


Who is faithful?

Are we tied through a covenant to God?


Does this covenant have anything to do with it if we will prevail or not? How?

In my Bible there are 20 references to a covenant in the New Testament. Even our sins are removed through a covenant. Rom. 11.

Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/16/06 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Johann
Who is faithful?

Are we tied through a covenant to God?


PP 196.3 says that God is faithful. Revelation 14:12 says that we are to have that same faith, the faith that manifests itself in faithfulness. So, both God and His people have the characteristic of faithfulness.

The covenant between God and His people depends upon faithfulness. When both parties are faithful, then the covenant stands. When one side or the other is unfaithful, then the covenant is broken.

Of course, God is always faithful. But, alas, we are not. Read 1Kings 11:11 for an example of unfaithfulness and its results.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/16/06 01:37 AM

How long does this covenant last?

Has God ever broken this covenant? Will he ever? How does that effect us? Have we broken the covenant?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/16/06 01:52 AM

God's covenants are everlasting.

Some of God's covenants are unconditional.

Some of God's covenants are conditional.

God never breaks any covenant, however, man did and does.
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/16/06 02:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Johann
How long does this covenant last?
In general, as long as all parties fulfill the covenant's requirements. But it depends on what specific covenant you're talking about.

Originally Posted By: Johann
Has God ever broken this covenant? Will he ever?
No and No.

Originally Posted By: Johann
How does that effect us?
It affects us positively if we fulfill the covenant's requirements. That means God will always do what He promises to do. And that's what faith is: claiming God's promises because we are in a covenant relationship with Him.

But if we do not fulfill the requirements, then we have no claim to the covenant's blessings. To claim God's promises under this condition would be presumption, not faith.

Originally Posted By: Johann
Have we broken the covenant?
Again, it depends on what specific covenant you're talking about. But man has broken many covenants, starting with Adam.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/16/06 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: asygo

Originally Posted By: Johann
Have we broken the covenant?
Again, it depends on what specific covenant you're talking about. But man has broken many covenants, starting with Adam.


How many covenants bring us eternal life?
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/17/06 07:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Johann
How many covenants bring us eternal life?


One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace.
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/17/06 10:26 AM

Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Johann
How many covenants bring us eternal life?
One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace.


Have we ever broken that covenant? Since the covenant is made with individuals, the question can only be answered individually.

If you have ever been in a lost condition (i.e. without eternal life), then you have broken that covenant.

The good news is that the covenant can be re-established. If you want to figure out if you have re-established the covenant, then just ask God to reveal to you if you are receiving the blessings of the covenant (see Galatians, Hebrews, and Titus for the covenant's blessings). Since God always fulfills His end of the deal, if you are not receiving those blessings, then you are not fulfilling your end of the deal -> no covenant for you.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/17/06 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Johann
How many covenants bring us eternal life?
One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace.


Have we ever broken that covenant? Since the covenant is made with individuals, the question can only be answered individually.

If you have ever been in a lost condition (i.e. without eternal life), then you have broken that covenant.

The good news is that the covenant can be re-established. If you want to figure out if you have re-established the covenant, then just ask God to reveal to you if you are receiving the blessings of the covenant (see Galatians, Hebrews, and Titus for the covenant's blessings). Since God always fulfills His end of the deal, if you are not receiving those blessings, then you are not fulfilling your end of the deal -> no covenant for you.


How do I break that covenant?

When and how do I have eternal life?
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/17/06 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Johann
How do I break that covenant?

When and how do I have eternal life?


Here's how to have eternal life: "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1Jn 5:12)

Here's when you can have eternal life: "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." (Romans 6:5-9)

Here's how to break the covenant: "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25)
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/17/06 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Johann
How do I break that covenant?

When and how do I have eternal life?


Here's how to have eternal life: "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1Jn 5:12)

Here's when you can have eternal life: "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." (Romans 6:5-9)

Here's how to break the covenant: "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25)


Wonderfful assuarances, Arnold, and taken right from Scripture, and that is our faith on which we can rely.

Matt. 16:25 states that life is not given by our desire alone. Our life must be deposited completely with Jesus, and then we are in His covenant of eternal life.

Eternal Life? But when do we become immortal? Are the angels immortal?
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/17/06 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Johann
How many covenants bring us eternal life?
One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace.


Have we ever broken that covenant? Since the covenant is made with individuals, the question can only be answered individually.

If you have ever been in a lost condition (i.e. without eternal life), then you have broken that covenant.

The good news is that the covenant can be re-established. If you want to figure out if you have re-established the covenant, then just ask God to reveal to you if you are receiving the blessings of the covenant (see Galatians, Hebrews, and Titus for the covenant's blessings). Since God always fulfills His end of the deal, if you are not receiving those blessings, then you are not fulfilling your end of the deal -> no covenant for you.


How do I break that covenant?

When and how do I have eternal life?
Johanns question is good. Is not this covenant almost more like a promise? God saying, this I will do for you.
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/19/06 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: västergötland
Is not this covenant almost more like a promise? God saying, this I will do for you.


It is a promise, but it is conditional. "I will do this for you if you ..."

God promises to give eternal life to those who meet the conditions. Unfortunately, as Jesus said, most people will choose to go down the road of destruction.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/20/06 01:27 AM

Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: västergötland
Is not this covenant almost more like a promise? God saying, this I will do for you.


It is a promise, but it is conditional. "I will do this for you if you ..."

God promises to give eternal life to those who meet the conditions. Unfortunately, as Jesus said, most people will choose to go down the road of destruction.


By what means can I break this covenant? I'd like to have a more specific answer than the one given in the text. Is there another text which describes this?
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/20/06 02:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Johann
By what means can I break this covenant? I'd like to have a more specific answer than the one given in the text. Is there another text which describes this?


Here are a few more texts. Compare and contrast them to see what the conditions are for life and death. Broken covenant = death.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 John 5:12 - He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul who sins shall die.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Luke 13:27 - Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.

Matthew 19:17 - But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Romans 6:8 - Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Romans 6:3-4 - Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/20/06 12:48 PM

So perfect performance in avoiding sin is the key?
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/20/06 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Johann
By what means can I break this covenant? I'd like to have a more specific answer than the one given in the text. Is there another text which describes this?


Here are a few more texts. Compare and contrast them to see what the conditions are for life and death. Broken covenant = death.

Excellent, and yet so simple. The good Lord does not require a Ph.D. in soteriology (=the doctrine of how we are saved) for us to understand this. That covenant is the covenant of life, eternal life. It is the power line that connects us with God, the only source of immortality. When that is broken there is no power, and the result is death.

You will recall that the ark of the covenant was in the most holy. What was in the ark?
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/20/06 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By: västergötland
So perfect performance in avoiding sin is the key?


No. The key is dying to self and being born of God. With that key you will unlock the storehouse which contains the treasure of avoiding sin. (See 1Jn 3:9 and 5:18) That same storehouse contains the gift of everlasting life.

As for perfect performance, I don't think that's going to happen while our equipment is damaged. Hence, Jesus promises to cover our "unavoidable deficiencies." In the meantime, we are to have a perfect trust in God and a perfect submission to His will.
Posted By: Johann

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/21/06 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: asygo

In the meantime, we are to have a perfect trust in God and a perfect submission to His will.


Are we born with this perfect trust?
What is our situation when we are not submitted to His will?
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel - 12/24/06 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: asygo

In the meantime, we are to have a perfect trust in God and a perfect submission to His will.


Are we born with this perfect trust?
What is our situation when we are not submitted to His will?


When we are born, we have perfect trust, but that trust is in self. We do not naturally trust God, and therefore, do not naturally want to submit to Him. Rather, we are naturally alienated from God. That's why we must be born again.
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