Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith

Posted By: asygo

Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/07/11 11:35 AM

Here is the link to the study and discussion material for Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/07/11 11:43 AM

From Sabbath:
Quote:
Many people try to separate the law from the gospel; some even see them as contradictory. Not only is this view wrong, it can have tragic consequences. Without the law, we would have no gospel. It’s hard, really, to understand the gospel without the law.

Interesting. And I think very correct.
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/07/11 03:32 PM

From today:

Quote:
Paul uses the phrase “under the law” twelve times in his letters. Depending on its context, it can have a couple of different connotations.

1. “Under the law” as an alternative way of salvation (Gal. 4:21). The opponents in Galatia were trying to gain life-giving righteousness by obedience. However, as Paul has already made clear, this is impossible (Gal. 3:21, 22). Paul later will even point out that, by desiring to be under the law, the Galatians were really rejecting Christ (Gal. 5:2–4).

2. “Under the law” in the sense of being under its condemnation (Rom. 6:14, 15). Because the law cannot atone for sin, the violation of its demands ultimately results in condemnation. This is the condition in which all human beings find themselves. The law acts as a prison warden, locking up all who have violated it and brought upon themselves the sentence of death. As we will see in tomorrow’s lesson, the use of the word guard (Gal. 3:23, NKJV) indicates that this is what Paul means by “under the law” in this passage.


Wouldn't there be a third connotation - under the jurisdiction of the law - like in Gal. 4:4? I know some understand this passage as applying to the condemnation of the law, but I don't agree with this view.
Posted By: Mountain Man

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/07/11 08:24 PM

We are under obligation to obey the law. We are under the condemnation of the law when we sin. However, it is God who commands us to live in harmony with the principles of His law. It is also God who praises us when we do. And, it is God who condemns us when we do not. But, praise the Lord, it is God who empowers us to repent and who forgives us when we do. The law is merely His tool. It is nothing without Him.
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Wouldn't there be a third connotation - under the jurisdiction of the law - like in Gal. 4:4? I know some understand this passage as applying to the condemnation of the law, but I don't agree with this view.

While I lean toward Gal 4:4 being an example of "salvation by perfect obedience," I agree that "under the jurisdiction of the law" is a valid meaning of "under the law." Perhaps 1 Corinthians 9:20 is an example.
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 02:12 AM

If we interpret it as "salvation by perfect obedience" in Gal. 4:4, we would have to apply the same meaning to Gal. 4:5, but would this meaning fit Gal. 4:5?

Quote:
Perhaps 1 Corinthians 9:20 is an example.

Yes, perhaps it is.
What about Gal. 4:21? Would it be "salvation by perfect obedience"?
Why does Paul complicate things? smile
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 02:41 AM

Lawyers never make anything simple.
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 03:01 AM

laugh
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 03:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Rosangela
If we interpret it as "salvation by perfect obedience" in Gal. 4:4, we would have to apply the same meaning to Gal. 4:5, but would this meaning fit Gal. 4:5?

That might not be a problem.

Quote:
Galatians 4:4-5
But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

We are, by default, under the "covenant" of salvation by perfect obedience. We are under the law in the sense that if we perfectly obey, we can live; if we sin, we die.

Jesus was "born under the law" - salvation by perfect obedience - and perfectly obeyed. He did what none of us can, and "earned" life. By His merits, we who are "under the law" at birth can be redeemed - adopted into a New Covenant of salvation by grace through faith.
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 03:39 AM

Yes, that's a good explanation. I think I thought of the the possibility of jurisdiction of the law influenced by passages such as these:

Christ acknowledged Himself subject to the law. If this were not so, He could not be our Saviour, and take away our sin. {12MR 233.4}

He, the Majesty of heaven, the King of glory, laid aside his royalty, his position as Commander in the heavenly courts, came to our world as a man, and became subject to the law. {ST, July 22, 1897 par. 4}

But, of course, Gal. 4:4 is not quoted in connection with these or other similar passages.

Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/08/11 05:07 AM

I have debated with some in the past regarding the idea that we are no longer under the jurisdiction of the law. I believe that all of God's creatures have always been and will always be under the jurisdiction of His law of love. We are all "required" to love God and each other. That will never be abolished as long as God is in charge.
Posted By: Colin

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/13/11 04:51 AM

There is a fourth connotation, too,...for "jurisdiction" fits. grin

Sinning condemns us with guilt - forgivable; sinful nature is condemned for being sinful: unforgivable - Jesus died to suffer the condemnation due our sinful nature.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/13/11 05:06 AM

A pastor I know personally posted this in Facebook:
Quote:
I just studied this week's lesson and I want to throw a thought out there. This week's lesson was obviously about the importance of the law of God. Coming from an SDA position the author obviously wants to make sure that the law is defended. Now I believe the law is still in force but I have a couple issues with a few things. I felt the lesson spent too much time trying to prove the law's permanence. It is a point that must be made but I think our people need to hear more about the promise of Christ and its fullness. I believe that the freedom in Christ from the law and its condemnation needs to take a more central role. Also, there is a subtle form of legalism that says I am forgiven and justified in Jesus but now as a believer it is my duty to keep the law out of love and loyalty. Sounds good but Paul totally dismisses this, especially in Romans in 6-8. It is only 'in Jesus' that I can obey. Life in the Spirit which lesson 12 gets into must be screamed out to us. We need Jesus' justifying grace and his sanctifying grace. I cannot as a born again believer look at the law and keep it. The new birth deals with my attitude and will toward God in my mind. But the power to obey my newly converted mind is not present. Hence the struggle spoken of in Romans 7. His mind is right with God (new birth) but his body (the housing of his sinful nature) is warring against it. Paul in despair cries out that there is only one answer in Romans 7:24, 25, Jesus. In Romans 8 he begins with another role of the Spirit (Jesus' earthly Representative) to bring life into our mortal bodies. I must have Jesus within. It is God that works in to will and to do in us to obey. Furthermore, the goal of the Christian life is not obedience but rather to know God. Paul tells us in Colossians that the mystery is Christ in us, the hope of glory. God wants to restore and remake us for sure but being in a trusting, living union of grace with Him is the goal not to get us to simply obey. For many years as an SDA I have heard our duty to obey, obey, obey and little or no mention of the freedom I have in Jesus. Jesus has me on every level! I can simply rest in Him for everything. Ephesians 1:3 tells us that every spiritual blessing is already mine in Christ. I do not have to wonder about my security. God has retold my story, I have a new reality in Christ. I am forgiven, new, righteous, holy, redeemed, loved, empowered, the Spirit...etc in Christ. The question is 'who's version of reality am I going to believe, God's or Satan's? The flesh, Satan, the world all try to tell me another story I can see but God is telling another story I can't see but believe. I am under grace, which can only believe. To be under law, which can only be do. If my focus is do I am not believing the right story. So under grace, being in Jesus is more about knowing who I am in Him. Study the word knowledge in the NT and look how it is used. Knowing Jesus, is knowing who I really am now. And here is the climax, as I understand who I really am in Jesus it affects the way I live. Paul in his letter was always trying to get people to see themselves differently, in Christ and then would urge in light of their new identity how to live. If I am in Christ in the heavenly realms then live from that vantage and put to death the things of the earth. Live as you are in Christ. All his letter are like this. If you want this really brought out read Ephesians and Colossians especially. Sorry its long but we need to focus more on who we are in Jesus rather than how to live!

What do you think of whst he posted?

Do you agree, disagree, or what>
Posted By: asygo

Re: Lesson #7 (4th Quarter 2011): The Road to Faith - 11/14/11 10:46 PM

First of all, paragraphs would be nice. smile

Quote:
I felt the lesson spent too much time trying to prove the law's permanence. It is a point that must be made but I think our people need to hear more about the promise of Christ and its fullness.

I think the law is part of "the promise of Christ and its fullness." The law is not merely a list of commands to be obeyed. It can, and should, be seen as a description of what Jesus promises to mold us into.

Quote:
I believe that the freedom in Christ from the law and its condemnation needs to take a more central role.

I don't like the idea of freedom "from the law," as if the law was something to shun. Rather, we are freed from sin, and enabled to obey the law. (Though there are caveats.)

Quote:
Also, there is a subtle form of legalism that says I am forgiven and justified in Jesus but now as a believer it is my duty to keep the law out of love and loyalty. Sounds good but Paul totally dismisses this, especially in Romans in 6-8.

"Aaawwww! I have to love God and my neighbor?!? Bummer!"

That's the attitude I'm sensing here regarding the law. Our "duty" to obey the law is akin to our "duty" to kiss our wives when we get home. It's not a duty as much as it is a privilege. If one sees it merely as a duty, I would suggest that such a one has no idea what, or Who, the Gospel is.

Quote:
It is only 'in Jesus' that I can obey. ... We need Jesus' justifying grace and his sanctifying grace.

This is true.

Quote:
I cannot as a born again believer look at the law and keep it. The new birth deals with my attitude and will toward God in my mind. But the power to obey my newly converted mind is not present.

This is partially true. The new birth changes the mind, but in me, that is, in my flesh, the power to obey is not present. However, there is also in me the New Man, Christ Jesus. He has power to obey.

Quote:
His mind is right with God (new birth) but his body (the housing of his sinful nature) is warring against it.

The body, which he calls "the housing of his sinful nature," is not a significant concern. The body will follow the commands given to it. The only question is, which will give the commands, the New Man or the Old Man? If the Old Man has been crucified, and we are to reckon it dead, those of us who understand the State of the Dead know better than to listen to it.

Quote:
Paul in despair cries out that there is only one answer in Romans 7:24, 25, Jesus.

Yes, Jesus is the answer. But His answer is not that we are to be left languishing in bondage to our trespasses and sins. He came to set the captives free.

That's it for now. More later.
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