Posted By: Daryl
1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 01/01/16 04:59 PM
Here is the link to our 1st Quarter 2016 study and discussion material:
http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/16a/
http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/16a/
1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption
Posted By: Daryl
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 01/01/16 05:00 PM
Here also are the links to the first two lessons:
http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/16a/less01.html (Crisis in Heaven)
http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/16a/less02.html (Crisis in Eden)
http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/16a/less01.html (Crisis in Heaven)
http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/16a/less02.html (Crisis in Eden)
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/06/16 04:57 AM
The lessons this quarter have been riddled with small, perhaps unnoticeable to many, doctrinal errors.
Just be careful not to imbibe everything hook line and sinker. In places, the lessons contradict Mrs. White, for example. Whomever wrote them did not do his homework.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Just be careful not to imbibe everything hook line and sinker. In places, the lessons contradict Mrs. White, for example. Whomever wrote them did not do his homework.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: asygo
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/07/16 09:57 AM
Can you cite some examples? Let's discuss them.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/07/16 12:04 PM
Well, if you wish.
I'll start with a few anomalies from Lesson 4: Conflict and Crisis: The Judges.
Look at the very first page of it and you see immediately a bit of a "dig" at men:
That's not in the Bible, and needn't be said. Not even Ellen White puts it like that. She does mention at one point that Barak lacked faith. But then, so did Gideon, so did others among the judges. In the end, Barak makes it into the "hall of faith" (Hebrews 11) whereas Deborah is unmentioned. Why? Deborah was simply a spokesperson for God. Actually, a prophet doesn't get a message from God by faith. God just gives the message and tells them to obey. Faith or not, the message comes. Consider Baalam for a prime example, and King Saul for another. Prophets speak for God, not for themselves. All this does is bring an unnecessary gender strife into focus where none was ever intended to exist. I can only imagine how many comments it provoked in churches throughout the Americas.
Next...
Since when was this "new leadership structure" a harbinger of "hope to the nation"? That is the meaning most would get from that wording based on a cursory glance. While it can be explained in another, more factual, manner, the wording here is simply awkward and misleading. It is incorrect to suppose that Samuel's anointing of kings was either good or of his own doing. It was a sin of the elders among the people to come and ask it of Samuel, but God told him to go ahead and do as they wanted. It was NOT Samuel, therefore, in charge of this, and it was not a matter of bringing "hope" to the people.
On to Sunday's lesson...
This is totally misleading again. Jael did not act deceptively. She was the one who had been deceived by him. He had come disguised as an ordinary footsoldier, and she had no idea who he was at first. After having fed the man and shown hospitality, he is the one to go to the door, look out suspiciously for anyone who might be following him, then request of her that she tell any passersby that he was not there. This is the first she realizes who he is. It is after this that her purpose changes, and this is done, according to Mrs. White, because God's Spirit was urging her to do the deed which eventually she got up courage to do. (See Ellen White's version of the further below.)
Next...
This is completely against Mrs. White. To say that bodies were washed away by the river does not mean there had been a flash flood. It may mean that people had chosen to dispose of them in that manner, by placing them in the river. The author(s) here make a huge leap of assumption, especially considering that Mrs. White contradicts this rendition of the story quite clearly. Here's the real story.
As can be seen from the contrast with the above account, it appears the lesson author totally made up the "wheels bogged down in the mud" bit. He ran away because the sword of Barak was drawing to close for comfort, and many of his men had already been slain!
There's more, but that's enough for one post and I'm out of time. Really, I think "enough said" more or less applies. Honestly, I've had a hard time studying from the adult S.S. guides for a long time. Why should I wade through all of this error to find the few gems of truth, when the Bible and Mrs. White can give it to me pure? Why should we not simply all study the Word in a systematic way? Does Mrs. White say anything about the church all needing to follow this lesson ritual?
I feel like teaching from the SS lessons is like using the very poor Bible translations that exist in the local languages here. Unfortunately, in the case of the latter situation, we may have nothing better; no other option.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
I'll start with a few anomalies from Lesson 4: Conflict and Crisis: The Judges.
Look at the very first page of it and you see immediately a bit of a "dig" at men:
Quote:
Deborah, one of Israel’s judges, was remarkable for the confidence that she inspired in the men around her. She and Jael are heroines, while the men needed encouraging because of their timidity and lack of faith.
That's not in the Bible, and needn't be said. Not even Ellen White puts it like that. She does mention at one point that Barak lacked faith. But then, so did Gideon, so did others among the judges. In the end, Barak makes it into the "hall of faith" (Hebrews 11) whereas Deborah is unmentioned. Why? Deborah was simply a spokesperson for God. Actually, a prophet doesn't get a message from God by faith. God just gives the message and tells them to obey. Faith or not, the message comes. Consider Baalam for a prime example, and King Saul for another. Prophets speak for God, not for themselves. All this does is bring an unnecessary gender strife into focus where none was ever intended to exist. I can only imagine how many comments it provoked in churches throughout the Americas.
Next...
Quote:
Samuel brings hope to the nation. Under him, a new leadership structure with kings was established, and one of his last acts was to anoint the future King David.
Since when was this "new leadership structure" a harbinger of "hope to the nation"? That is the meaning most would get from that wording based on a cursory glance. While it can be explained in another, more factual, manner, the wording here is simply awkward and misleading. It is incorrect to suppose that Samuel's anointing of kings was either good or of his own doing. It was a sin of the elders among the people to come and ask it of Samuel, but God told him to go ahead and do as they wanted. It was NOT Samuel, therefore, in charge of this, and it was not a matter of bringing "hope" to the people.
On to Sunday's lesson...
Quote:
The heroine of the story is Heber’s wife, Jael, who is not afraid to identify with God’s people and who played a crucial role in the defeat of God’s enemies. Judging her actions from our perspective today isn’t easy. The last thing we should do, though, is use her deeds to justify deception and violence in order to achieve our ends, no matter how right those ends might be.
This is totally misleading again. Jael did not act deceptively. She was the one who had been deceived by him. He had come disguised as an ordinary footsoldier, and she had no idea who he was at first. After having fed the man and shown hospitality, he is the one to go to the door, look out suspiciously for anyone who might be following him, then request of her that she tell any passersby that he was not there. This is the first she realizes who he is. It is after this that her purpose changes, and this is done, according to Mrs. White, because God's Spirit was urging her to do the deed which eventually she got up courage to do. (See Ellen White's version of the further below.)
Next...
Quote:
Deborah’s song of thanksgiving (Judges 5) reveals some of the details. Sisera’s chariots become bogged down in the narrow passes near the river Kishon because of heavy rain. The heavens and the clouds “pour” and the mountains “gush” water (Judg. 5:4, 5, NKJV), producing a flash flood that sweeps away many enemy soldiers (Judg. 5:21), and Israel is delivered.
This is completely against Mrs. White. To say that bodies were washed away by the river does not mean there had been a flash flood. It may mean that people had chosen to dispose of them in that manner, by placing them in the river. The author(s) here make a huge leap of assumption, especially considering that Mrs. White contradicts this rendition of the story quite clearly. Here's the real story.
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Barak now marshaled an army of ten thousand men, and marched to Mount Tabor, as the Lord had directed. Sisera immediately assembled an immense and well-equipped force, expecting to surround the Hebrews and make them an easy prey. The Israelites were but poorly prepared for an encounter, and looked with terror upon the vast armies spread out in the plain beneath them, equipped with all the implements of warfare, and provided with the dreaded chariots of iron. These were so constructed as to be terribly destructive. Large, scythe-like knives were fastened to the axles, so that the chariots, being driven through the ranks of the enemy, would cut them down like wheat before the sickle. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 7}
The Israelites had established themselves in a strong position in the mountains, to await a favorable opportunity for an attack. Encouraged by Deborah's assurance that the very day had come for signal victory, Barak led his army down into the open plain, and boldly made a charge upon the enemy. The God of battle fought for Israel, and neither skill in warfare, nor superiority of numbers and equipment, could withstand them. The hosts of Sisera were panic-stricken; in their terror they sought only how they might escape. Vast numbers were slain, and the strength of the invading army was utterly destroyed. The Israelites acted with courage and promptness; but God alone could have discomfited the enemy, and the victory could be ascribed to him alone. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 8}
When Sisera saw that his army was defeated, he left his chariot, and endeavored to make his escape on foot, as a common soldier. Approaching the tent of Heber, one of the descendants of Jethro, the fugitive was invited to find shelter there. In the absence of Heber, Jael, his wife, courteously offered Sisera a refreshing draught, and opportunity for repose, and the weary general soon fell asleep. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 9}
Jael was at first ignorant of the character of her guest, and she resolved to conceal him; but when she afterward learned that he was Sisera, the enemy of God and of his people, her purpose changed. As he lay before her asleep, she overcame her natural reluctance to such an act, and slew him by driving a nail through his temples, pinning him to the earth. As Barak, in pursuit of his enemy, passed that way, he was called in by Jael to behold the vain-glorious captain dead at his feet,--slain by the hand of a woman. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 10}
The Israelites had established themselves in a strong position in the mountains, to await a favorable opportunity for an attack. Encouraged by Deborah's assurance that the very day had come for signal victory, Barak led his army down into the open plain, and boldly made a charge upon the enemy. The God of battle fought for Israel, and neither skill in warfare, nor superiority of numbers and equipment, could withstand them. The hosts of Sisera were panic-stricken; in their terror they sought only how they might escape. Vast numbers were slain, and the strength of the invading army was utterly destroyed. The Israelites acted with courage and promptness; but God alone could have discomfited the enemy, and the victory could be ascribed to him alone. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 8}
When Sisera saw that his army was defeated, he left his chariot, and endeavored to make his escape on foot, as a common soldier. Approaching the tent of Heber, one of the descendants of Jethro, the fugitive was invited to find shelter there. In the absence of Heber, Jael, his wife, courteously offered Sisera a refreshing draught, and opportunity for repose, and the weary general soon fell asleep. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 9}
Jael was at first ignorant of the character of her guest, and she resolved to conceal him; but when she afterward learned that he was Sisera, the enemy of God and of his people, her purpose changed. As he lay before her asleep, she overcame her natural reluctance to such an act, and slew him by driving a nail through his temples, pinning him to the earth. As Barak, in pursuit of his enemy, passed that way, he was called in by Jael to behold the vain-glorious captain dead at his feet,--slain by the hand of a woman. {ST, June 16, 1881 par. 10}
As can be seen from the contrast with the above account, it appears the lesson author totally made up the "wheels bogged down in the mud" bit. He ran away because the sword of Barak was drawing to close for comfort, and many of his men had already been slain!
There's more, but that's enough for one post and I'm out of time. Really, I think "enough said" more or less applies. Honestly, I've had a hard time studying from the adult S.S. guides for a long time. Why should I wade through all of this error to find the few gems of truth, when the Bible and Mrs. White can give it to me pure? Why should we not simply all study the Word in a systematic way? Does Mrs. White say anything about the church all needing to follow this lesson ritual?
I feel like teaching from the SS lessons is like using the very poor Bible translations that exist in the local languages here. Unfortunately, in the case of the latter situation, we may have nothing better; no other option.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: asygo
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/07/16 12:59 PM
That's interesting. My usual method of "studying" the lesson is scanning it for the main topics covered, then reading the BIble and SOP accounts and insights. In any case, what we actually discuss in class may or may not have anything to do with said topics.
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/07/16 05:10 PM
You have two huge advantages over me. Huge.
1) Your disciples have background knowledge, and therefore, something to draw on for discussion material, even if not fully on topic.
2) Your disciples have a different culture that allows independence of thought for each individual, as opposed to a "respect the teacher and acknowledge what he or she says" mentality, which does not permit one to "correct" or differ with the leader or elder.
I teach a mostly quiet class. Real discussion is rare. A few comments, mostly about personal experience, are sometimes made. No one has much of anything to say in terms of Bible discussion. So they listen to me. Therefore, if I don't follow the lesson, what do I do?
Oh, and the other advantage you have: more resource materials. Like Ellen White. Doesn't exist here. Yes, of course _I_ have some of that, but _they_ don't. Not in their language. And translation, even on-the-fly, takes T-i-m-e. Further, abstract concepts just don't translate well, period.
Sigh. I shouldn't complain. But I would appreciate your prayers, as reaching the Buddhists here via the error-filled Sabbath-school lessons is difficult. Can't we just leave gender issues out? Can't we just teach the truth instead? One Japanese Buddhist lady has been studying with us for over a year. She gets a printout from another missionary couple of the lesson in Japanese. But then, what happens to the errors during translation? I doubt they're all lost, and likely some new ones crop up. Since I don't read Japanese....
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
1) Your disciples have background knowledge, and therefore, something to draw on for discussion material, even if not fully on topic.
2) Your disciples have a different culture that allows independence of thought for each individual, as opposed to a "respect the teacher and acknowledge what he or she says" mentality, which does not permit one to "correct" or differ with the leader or elder.
I teach a mostly quiet class. Real discussion is rare. A few comments, mostly about personal experience, are sometimes made. No one has much of anything to say in terms of Bible discussion. So they listen to me. Therefore, if I don't follow the lesson, what do I do?
Oh, and the other advantage you have: more resource materials. Like Ellen White. Doesn't exist here. Yes, of course _I_ have some of that, but _they_ don't. Not in their language. And translation, even on-the-fly, takes T-i-m-e. Further, abstract concepts just don't translate well, period.
Sigh. I shouldn't complain. But I would appreciate your prayers, as reaching the Buddhists here via the error-filled Sabbath-school lessons is difficult. Can't we just leave gender issues out? Can't we just teach the truth instead? One Japanese Buddhist lady has been studying with us for over a year. She gets a printout from another missionary couple of the lesson in Japanese. But then, what happens to the errors during translation? I doubt they're all lost, and likely some new ones crop up. Since I don't read Japanese....
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: asygo
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/08/16 12:13 PM
Your situation is daunting. I have had Bible studies in the Philippines, but they were far advanced compared to your students. However, they also had the "teacher is always right" mentality, especially when the teacher can speak with an American accent. I hated it.
Going back to teaching the lesson, I have not stuck to the lesson since I was a teenager. When dealing with students with a weak background, I tend to replace the lesson with Steps to Christ. I figure if they master that, they'll be fine.
Going back to teaching the lesson, I have not stuck to the lesson since I was a teenager. When dealing with students with a weak background, I tend to replace the lesson with Steps to Christ. I figure if they master that, they'll be fine.
Posted By: dedication
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/20/16 07:50 AM
A speaker on Amazing Facts gives a very good rendition of this weeks lesson:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/media/e/13372/t/comrades-in-arms
http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/media/e/13372/t/comrades-in-arms
Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/20/16 08:29 AM
We just spent our Sabbath school time this morning focusing on the demonic part of the lesson, as one of the non-Christians attending comes from the animist perspective and has seen devil sacrifices of pigs and chickens, and has seen demon possession such as was touched on in the lesson.
The lessons are often more "real" to people over here as opposed to more "theoretical," as I recall from past participation in America. I think it is harder for a lifelong Adventist to grasp the power of the truth when it has been already presented so many times from other angles and the only novelty in it is a, hopefully, new angle of presentation of the same truth that has been taught before. Non-Christians can immediately grasp the real virtue of a God who loves and protects His followers. It is something for us old timers to ponder.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
The lessons are often more "real" to people over here as opposed to more "theoretical," as I recall from past participation in America. I think it is harder for a lifelong Adventist to grasp the power of the truth when it has been already presented so many times from other angles and the only novelty in it is a, hopefully, new angle of presentation of the same truth that has been taught before. Non-Christians can immediately grasp the real virtue of a God who loves and protects His followers. It is something for us old timers to ponder.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Rick H
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 02/20/16 11:40 AM
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
We just spent our Sabbath school time this morning focusing on the demonic part of the lesson, as one of the non-Christians attending comes from the animist perspective and has seen devil sacrifices of pigs and chickens, and has seen demon possession such as was touched on in the lesson.
The lessons are often more "real" to people over here as opposed to more "theoretical," as I recall from past participation in America. I think it is harder for a lifelong Adventist to grasp the power of the truth when it has been already presented so many times from other angles and the only novelty in it is a, hopefully, new angle of presentation of the same truth that has been taught before. Non-Christians can immediately grasp the real virtue of a God who loves and protects His followers. It is something for us old timers to ponder.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
The lessons are often more "real" to people over here as opposed to more "theoretical," as I recall from past participation in America. I think it is harder for a lifelong Adventist to grasp the power of the truth when it has been already presented so many times from other angles and the only novelty in it is a, hopefully, new angle of presentation of the same truth that has been taught before. Non-Christians can immediately grasp the real virtue of a God who loves and protects His followers. It is something for us old timers to ponder.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Alchemy
Re: 1st Quarter 2016 - Rebellion and Redemption - 04/07/16 02:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
You have two huge advantages over me. Huge.
1) Your disciples have background knowledge, and therefore, something to draw on for discussion material, even if not fully on topic.
2) Your disciples have a different culture that allows independence of thought for each individual, as opposed to a "respect the teacher and acknowledge what he or she says" mentality, which does not permit one to "correct" or differ with the leader or elder.
I teach a mostly quiet class. Real discussion is rare. A few comments, mostly about personal experience, are sometimes made. No one has much of anything to say in terms of Bible discussion. So they listen to me. Therefore, if I don't follow the lesson, what do I do?
Oh, and the other advantage you have: more resource materials. Like Ellen White. Doesn't exist here. Yes, of course _I_ have some of that, but _they_ don't. Not in their language. And translation, even on-the-fly, takes T-i-m-e. Further, abstract concepts just don't translate well, period.
Sigh. I shouldn't complain. But I would appreciate your prayers, as reaching the Buddhists here via the error-filled Sabbath-school lessons is difficult. Can't we just leave gender issues out? Can't we just teach the truth instead? One Japanese Buddhist lady has been studying with us for over a year. She gets a printout from another missionary couple of the lesson in Japanese. But then, what happens to the errors during translation? I doubt they're all lost, and likely some new ones crop up. Since I don't read Japanese....
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
1) Your disciples have background knowledge, and therefore, something to draw on for discussion material, even if not fully on topic.
2) Your disciples have a different culture that allows independence of thought for each individual, as opposed to a "respect the teacher and acknowledge what he or she says" mentality, which does not permit one to "correct" or differ with the leader or elder.
I teach a mostly quiet class. Real discussion is rare. A few comments, mostly about personal experience, are sometimes made. No one has much of anything to say in terms of Bible discussion. So they listen to me. Therefore, if I don't follow the lesson, what do I do?
Oh, and the other advantage you have: more resource materials. Like Ellen White. Doesn't exist here. Yes, of course _I_ have some of that, but _they_ don't. Not in their language. And translation, even on-the-fly, takes T-i-m-e. Further, abstract concepts just don't translate well, period.
Sigh. I shouldn't complain. But I would appreciate your prayers, as reaching the Buddhists here via the error-filled Sabbath-school lessons is difficult. Can't we just leave gender issues out? Can't we just teach the truth instead? One Japanese Buddhist lady has been studying with us for over a year. She gets a printout from another missionary couple of the lesson in Japanese. But then, what happens to the errors during translation? I doubt they're all lost, and likely some new ones crop up. Since I don't read Japanese....
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
Amen Green. I will be praying for you and your group.
And I also appreciate your insights in this Sabbath School Lesson.