Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
Posted By: razorren
Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 12/20/05 07:27 AM
Hi all. This is a question raised by a friend on another SDA site. I think it is both timely and valid...
quote:
Written by Walk In The Light>>
What of this statement, and the involvement of many of our leaders with ecumenists and opposers of our traditional message of Babylon being fallen?
"Among Adventists, the clear understanding of the term 'Babylon' is diminishing more and more and is giving way to confusion. A conference leader told me years ago that 'Babylon is in us.' My question, of how would it be possible under these circumstances to follow the call to leave Babylon, remained without an answer. Some other definitions, from Adventist publications are that Babylon is the 'wickedness of my city,' 'evil influences' and to 'attempt to gain salvation through one's own works.' Adventist Review, December 31, 1992; Signs of the Times, June 1992;
How is this attitude of rejection being displayed in your local congregation? What can we do about it?
"Worldly policy is taking the place of true piety and wisdom that comes from above, and God will remove His prospering hand from the conference. Shall the ark of the covenant be removed from this people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall false principles and false precepts be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist be respected? Shall the true doctrines and principles given us of God, which have made us what we are, be ignored?.... This is directly where the enemy, through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading us." E. G. White, Manuscript 29, 1890.
The question for us is:
Where are we right now?
--Ren
Posted By: razorren
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 12/20/05 07:37 AM
Just a quick side note from myself. I have recently noticed more and more what looks like the Spirit of the Lord stirring His people to action.
Many are no longer waiting for marching orders from leadership (no disrespect), but are proclaiming the end time message in any venue that they can. Yet sadly, these workers are few in number.
It would seem that many of our people will indeed wait until it is much more difficult to work before they begin to work.
The messages of the Three Angels need to be proclaimed with a loud voice while there is still time.
May god give us all the means and the buring desire to do the work He has called us to do.
--Ren
Posted By: Colin
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 12/20/05 05:43 AM
Is the 3rd Angel's message not the 3 Angels' message, which is the same message joined with the 4th angel's loud cry?
Basically, Babylon isn't the focus of the message: the gospel is. For all the other's mention of Babylon, the 1st Angel proclaims the gospel and so the Babylonian Christianity out there is fallen because its gospel is false, bankrupt and corrupted. Looks more like the pure gospel proclamation is what brings a reaction from God's people in those denominations which don't have a correct grasp of the gospel, and they observe the truth that Babylon is fallen, is fallen. The secular world may yet be religiously aware enough to notice the difference but they do not repent, as per the merchants and kings and princes of Rev 18. The loud cry is a warning to the rest of Christiandom, if not the whole religious world.
Of course all non-religious people and non-believers are welcome still to accept the Gospel, but they are only definitely going to hear the Gospel explained to them.
The question that remains is whether we have a gospel message fit to challenge Babylon's gospel with. Should we, do we, did we have a gospel message capable of being present truth sufficient ethically to challenge the big boys?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 12/22/05 08:57 PM
Well,
If the loud cry was given back around the time of the Millerite movement for precious souls to come out of Babylon, false religion, the rejection of the Sabbath truth and the imminence of the 2nd coming, then your definition no longer fits with this does it? It seems after reading your post that it doesn't. There must remain an adequate definition of who or what Babylon is and this is one of the central reasons for the SDA Church establishment. What is your definition of Babylon if it is not the historic definition?
Dennis
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 12/22/05 09:05 PM
Here is some helpful information on the definition of Babylon:
The woman (Babylon) of Revelation 17 is described as "arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness:...and upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots." Says the prophet: "I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Babylon is further declared to be "that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Revelation 17:4-6, 18. The power that for so many centuries maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom is Rome. The purple and scarlet color, the gold and precious stones and pearls, vividly picture the magnificence and more than kingly pomp affected by the haughty see of Rome. And no other power could be so truly declared "drunken with the blood of the saints" as that church which has so cruelly persecuted the followers of Christ. Babylon is also charged with the sin of unlawful connection with "the kings of the earth." It was by departure from the Lord, and alliance with the heathen, that the Jewish church became a harlot; and Rome, corrupting herself in like manner by seeking the support of worldly powers, receives a like condemnation. {GC 382.2}
Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing
383
the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. At the time of their rise these churches took a noble stand for God and the truth, and His blessing was with them. Even the unbelieving world was constrained to acknowledge the beneficent results that followed an acceptance of the principles of the gospel. In the words of the prophet to Israel: "Thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through My comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God." But they fell by the same desire which was the curse and ruin of Israel--the desire of imitating the practices and courting the friendship of the ungodly. "Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." Ezekiel 16:14, 15. {GC 382.3}
Posted By: The_Lord_Is_One
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 01/07/06 06:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
The question that remains is whether we have a gospel message fit to challenge Babylon's gospel with. Should we, do we, did we have a gospel message capable of being present truth sufficient ethically to challenge the big boys?
Colin,
The impression I got from your post is that you may have some reservations about how things have progressed since the early SDA movement formed. Is this the case? I am wondering about the word you used to describe the "gospel message" (ethically) that is supposed to challenge the others. What do you mean in using this term. Is there something unethical about our current way of presenting the gospel? It seems you are making the historic truth of the SDA Church inferior to those of fallen Protestantdom or Roman Catholic "Christianity." Also, I came away from reading your post wondering if it were possible for you to have any confidence in the current leadership at the GC. Is there some hesitancy on your end? Just wondering...
![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
Posted By: The_Lord_Is_One
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 01/07/06 06:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by razorren:
[QB]
Shall antichrist be respected?
I would like to get some feedback on what she means in this question.. Clearly she had something on her mind with this. The question is, what was it?
Posted By: Colin
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 01/07/06 11:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The_Lord_Is_One:
quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
The question that remains is whether we have a gospel message fit to challenge Babylon's gospel with. Should we, do we, did we have a gospel message capable of being present truth sufficient ethically to challenge the big boys?
Colin,
The impression I got from your post is that you may have some reservations about how things have progressed since the early SDA movement formed. Is this the case? I am wondering about the word you used to describe the "gospel message" (ethically) that is supposed to challenge the others. What do you mean in using this term. Is there something unethical about our current way of presenting the gospel? It seems you are making the historic truth of the SDA Church inferior to those of fallen Protestantdom or Roman Catholic "Christianity." Also, I came away from reading your post wondering if it were possible for you to have any confidence in the current leadership at the GC. Is there some hesitancy on your end? Just wondering...
Thanks for your softly, softly query. We do have a current problem, though, do we not?
Our history on righteousness by faith teaching has had its highs, extreme highs, its lows, extreme lows, and now we're still at a low. What do you make of our 1888 RBF history in relation to our teaching today? The current GC need to ask and answer these self-same questions, since we in the membership who've done our homework recongise that our present teaching is no better than that of fallen Christiandom, but that we own the better version in our history and need only retrieve it to use it.
By "ethical" I mean that one can actually improve fallen Christianity's gospel and do so ethically: they've got at least the Bible's salvation message wrong, and the right version isn't popular; therefore, if we proclaim it again we'll need to be brave in the power of the 3 angels, and that 4th angel.
We've made a pig's ear of our prophetic purpose, and we must still succeed if we're to fulfil that purpose, so I'm wanting the GC to revive & reform our message. The support for that campaign is growing ever stronger, even supported by a few, here: you don't agree, or is your angle just slightly different?
Posted By: The_Lord_Is_One
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 01/07/06 04:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
Thanks for your softly, softly query. We do have a current problem, though, do we not?
Our history on righteousness by faith teaching has had its highs, extreme highs, its lows, extreme lows, and now we're still at a low. What do you make of our 1888 RBF history in relation to our teaching today? The current GC need to ask and answer these self-same questions, since we in the membership who've done our homework recongise that our present teaching is no better than that of fallen Christiandom, but that we own the better version in our history and need only retrieve it to use it.
By "ethical" I mean that one can actually improve fallen Christianity's gospel and do so ethically: they've got at least the Bible's salvation message wrong, and the right version isn't popular; therefore, if we proclaim it again we'll need to be brave in the power of the 3 angels, and that 4th angel.
We've made a pig's ear of our prophetic purpose, and we must still succeed if we're to fulfil that purpose, so I'm wanting the GC to revive & reform our message. The support for that campaign is growing ever stronger, even supported by a few, here: you don't agree, or is your angle just slightly different?
That's what I thought you meant. Thanks for clarifying. As to whether I am in agreement, I would only say, follow the flow of my posts and hopefully it will be evident without making the defensive in high places apt to harsh and unbending activity.
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
Posted By: bethybug
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 05/06/06 02:54 AM
Do we argue about this or do we tell people? Have we been told to keep it down a little? Should we care what we are told by the conference? Should we obey God rather than man? The message will offend some people. If things are too cushy maybe we are not doing what we should. Why are we waiting? 8 people were saved in Noahs day. God can do a lot with a few who are willing.
Posted By: Daryl
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 05/06/06 05:30 AM
Just like what He did with Gideon's army.
Posted By: Tom
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 05/06/06 07:23 AM
Do we argue about this or do we tell people?
Tell them what? Colin is saying we should be telling people the Gospel, that the Gospel is what the loud cry of the third angel's message is.
Colin is right. The Lord gave us the loud cry message we are to present through His servents Jones and Waggoner in 1888 and the years immediately following (1 SM 362). If we do not know what that message is, how can we possibly give it? 
Posted By: bethybug
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 05/07/06 04:03 AM
I didn't mean you guys specifically argueing..I mean...I have heard this so much from church members who sit there every week in their pews "discussing it" but never DOING it!
I bet God gets tired of that too!
Posted By: Tom
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 05/07/06 06:34 AM
Yes, I agree that things must be very frustrating for God. God's purpose is to reveal the truth about Himself to us, but we twist His truth and make Him according to our own image. Thankfully God is infiniate gracious and patient.
Here's a statement from the Spirit of Prophecy which is interesting:
Quote:
Those who think of the result of hastening or hindering the gospel think of it in relation to themselves and to the world. Few think of its relation to God. Few give thought to the suffering that sin has caused our Creator. All heaven suffered in Christ's agony; but that suffering did not begin or end with His manifestation in humanity. The cross is a revelation to our dull senses of the pain that, from its very inception, sin has brought to the heart of God. Every departure from the right, every deed of cruelty, every failure of humanity to reach His ideal, brings grief to Him. When there came upon Israel the calamities that were the sure result of separation from God,--subjugation by their enemies, cruelty, and death, --it is said that "His soul was grieved for the misery of Israel." "In all their affliction He was afflicted: . . . and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old." Judges 10:16; Isaiah 63:9. (Ed. 263)
Posted By: Colin
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/03/06 07:32 PM
Quote:
Do we argue about this or do we tell people? Have we been told to keep it down a little? Should we care what we are told by the conference? Should we obey God rather than man? The message will offend some people. If things are too cushy maybe we are not doing what we should. Why are we waiting? 8 people were saved in Noahs day. God can do a lot with a few who are willing.
Well, tell it "straight" to the world while the church herself is both unwilling and at least a little confused about what's "straight"!...Give it a go if you're impressed that that's right, but I sense the church needs the loud cry clarified for her more than the world needs to hear it, just now.
Yes, the world is desperate for the good news, but the church is in more need than that...!!There is uncertainty about the 3 Angels' message and ignorance & confusion about the loud cry. As Tom reiterated for me, the 1888 message is the "beginning of the loud cry", but its power is unknown in non-Adventist Christiandom since it is unique in this world. 'We' think we can't justifiably be unique in the Reformation, but such shyness is only about 50 years old...
It appears to me better to help the church recover what she has despised so we can corporately champion the message given to Laodicea. Else she shall insist on being offended for being ashamerd of her unique message, and no-one should be hurried into being offended.
The message must go out, but one's patience with the church does depend on whether one views probatiuon as ending with or without God finishing the character building in us that is happening at present. Is the time set by the Father based purely on the gospel reaching the whole world or also set for Christ's completion of the cleansing of the sanctuary?
Posted By: bethybug
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/04/06 06:37 PM
We are to proclaim it now! Time is too short to wait for the corporate church. The stones will cry out...the children will preach if we do not. We need to do it simply and without big theatrics and complicated planning....just TELL IT!! The people that will listen the most are the ones who are in NEED....the poor, the hurting, the sick....they need it to be understandable...simple. They need us to touch them...not just tell them. To help their need...whatever it is. We do NOT need to wait! We will receive power when we put our foot in the Red Sea and ACT!
Posted By: the1888message
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/05/06 02:41 AM
Well, if we wait for the church to give the message that they have, or should I say had, then it well never be given out again.
I have seen the Daniel and Revelation Seminars from some 30 years and they had a lot of straight truth in them. In fact, it seemed that they were using old church materials. I have seen the D&R Seminars of today and I must say that I had to walk out of the last one I went to. There was so many things that where misleading and just plain false. That I could not allow my family to sit and listen to what was being taught. It went against what the early SDA church taught and even some 30 years before.
The message has changed. Yes the church needs to be taught what the Three Angels Message and what the 1888 message is. The material is there if anyone wants it. But, the problem is you have these modern teachers and pastors that have been trained in Catholic school giving a mixed message. You also have Catholic trained teachers training the SDA new preachers and again you have a watered down message. Add to this mix the NAD Conference sending Elder and pastors to workshops put on by Willow Creek Association, which is a non-denominational church and being taught another message other than the SDA message.
The message is there in the Bible (KJV) it is there in the OLD WRITTINGS from the founders of the church. We must find again what they had. For what they had is being buried and leaders in the church have told me that it is the old message we have a new direction today.
The early SDA was from about 1848 to about 1852 the sixth church of Revelation and that church is the only one going to Heaven. The SDA church today proudly claims to be the seventh church of Revelation, (by the way any church in this position is to be vomited out) is this where we should be as Children of God?
We need to find out what they had that made them a part of the sixth church and get back to it.
Are we too wait on the GC or the Local conferences to take that step? Is this what God and His Son have commissioned the BELIEVERS to do? No, spread the message to every kindred, nation and tongue.
Please read the three Angels massage again, in fact read the entire chapter and tell me where it is that we are to wait for any denomination?
Brothers and Sisters, the time is truly to short to wait on others to do the work that God has given to His people. Study quickly and tell it to all those around you. Tell the world; repent for the hour of His judgment is at hand.
Peace and Grace
David
Posted By: Mountain Man
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/05/06 06:47 AM
Yes, SDA's can and will fulfill the prophecy of the 3AMs as recorded in Rev 14. The church may appear about to fall - but it will not. Although we have been in the almost fallen state for some time now, nevetheless, the church will do its appointed work. But not until after the shaking and sifting of Adventism.
6T 371
The Lord does not now work to bring many souls into the truth, because of the church members who have never been converted and those who were once converted but who have backslidden. What influence would these unconsecrated members have on new converts? Would they not make of no effect the God-given message which His people are to bear? {6T 370.3}
Posted By: the1888message
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/05/06 05:36 PM
Quote:
Yes, SDA's can and will fulfill the prophecy of the 3AMs as recorded in Rev 14. The church may appear about to fall - but it will not. Although we have been in the almost fallen state for some time now, nevetheless, the church will do its appointed work. But not until after the shaking and sifting of Adventism.
6T 371
The Lord does not now work to bring many souls into the truth, because of the church members who have never been converted and those who were once converted but who have backslidden. What influence would these unconsecrated members have on new converts? Would they not make of no effect the God-given message which His people are to bear? {6T 370.3}
You are correct the church will not fall. However, if you are referring to the 7th church (which the current sda church boasts about being) what does the Bible state? it states that it will be vomited out, unless the people change. Many pastor believe that it is the church that will change. This cannot be so for while Christ is talking to the church at the beginning of Rev 3:14 He goes on to talk to the people in the church. He does not knock on the church door but on the hearts of men. Sister White was refering to the 6th church of Revelation which is the only church that will go to heaven.
We can still be part of that church the church that the early SDA church was.
"Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never happen. R&H 3/23/1887"
Peace and Grace
David
Posted By: Colin
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/09/06 11:57 PM
Ah, the fate of Laodicea....: But David, you mistake the meaning of the AV "I will spit you out". That traditional wording hides the actual meaning of "I feel that I am about to spit you out": the True Witness is made nauseous by our lukewarmness as a body, but doesn't actually throw up - thank God.
Laodicea means victory and the message to the angel of the church ends with "be zealous and repent" in the name of God's love. You agree that the angel is the leadership....The "any man" of the next verse doesn't give up on the leadership, it seeks an inspiring leader as well as laymembers who are seeking true warmth.
You openly promote the 1888 message...: the 1888 messengers held belief in the revival of the corporate 7th church, and so should we who uphold that message. The reformation of the 6th church links with the revival of 7th, but needs the 7th's revival to experience that reformation.
Don't give up on where we are now.
Posted By: vastergotland
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 06/10/06 12:24 AM
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: 'These [things] says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning [or, Origin; or, Ruler] of the creation of God:
Rev 3:15 'I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. O that you* were cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 'So then, because you are lukewarm, and not hot nor cold, I am about to vomit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 'Because you say, "I am wealthy and have grown rich and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are the wretched [one] and the miserable [one], and poor and blind and naked,
Rev 3:18 'I advise you to buy from me gold having been refined by fire, so that you shall grow rich, and white garments, so that you shall be clothed and the shame of your nakedness shall not be revealed, so that you shall smear your eyes with eye-salve, so that you shall see.
Rev 3:19 'As many as I affectionately love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore, be zealous and repent!
Rev 3:20 'Look! I have stood at the door, and I am knocking. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, then I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21 'The One overcoming, I will give to him to sit down with Me in My throne, as _I_ also overcame and sat down with my Father in His throne.
Rev 3:22 'The one having an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.'"
Posted By: bethybug
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 07/02/06 05:48 AM
I say...while we are argueing about which church is going to heaven that we are wasting time where we could be telling the people. What is a church? A building? A conference? or is it "a people"? I would say that "we" have a message to tell...in or out of the conference. If we know whats about to happen we are obligated to tell it...period.
We could nit pick forever and if God waited for some people
to get it right He would never come. He has an appointed time to come. He will not wait forever. I say it is an individual command to spread the gospel...the 3 angels message. We should wait for no man! If some do not have it "right" that is between them and God. If the leaders of
the organized church do not "have it right" then they will be held accountable...not to us, but to God.
Posted By: Mountain Man
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 07/02/06 08:17 PM
Can the SDA Church still proclaim the 3AMs? Of course we can. Does that mean everyone who is proclaiming the truth is experiencing it? No, of course not. But the gospel is being preached. By the way, SDAs are the only ones who can preach the 3AMs. We are the only ones who have it.
Philippians
1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Posted By: lindax
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 05/13/08 11:26 PM
hello my friends,is it not possible to declare the three angels message on these threads,it would not do any harm and we could also declare them to people who we come across,plus send letters to anyone in your local directory.it all adds up to the message going out,i for one ignore the what our so called bosses say its what the LORD says that matters.do you not agree.praise the LORD.brian
Posted By: Rick H
Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message??? - 01/28/19 02:28 PM
That is what is happening now, very few are standing up to the drifting away from the 3rd Angels Message to say nothing of the Pillars of Adventism. Or original church sent out a email that they no longer will preach the 3rd Angels Message and we have seen it diminished to the point that even the sign of the three angels has been replaced by a nondescript design which basically takes away the Adventist commitment to the last day message for all to see when they come to a Adventist church. What does the new sign give them, hmm?