Multiple Church Districts

Our pastor here has 3 churches, about an hour from each other.
The last one fixed the 'problem', he drafted 2 people to help him.

He has one church he did every week and jumped back and forth with the other 2.

The new pastor plans to be at each of them for the whole day at least once a month.

Guess what that means?

Besides, if we look at the reports, where is the greatest growth located?
In the areas where the laity does the most of the work.
I have read about pastors that take care of 20 or 25 churches , and some of them have even more.

Did Paul or the apostles stay at one church?
That was why they directed the installation of elders and deacons for the local church.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

What I find strange in my experience is that the younger ones in the congregations can handle video sermons, elders reading their messages and all the other things that go with a preacher having several churches.

Its the older members that want a pastor every week. When I leave for Camp Meeting or to the General Conference, they speak in terms of be being away for "months" even though that is a factual and mathamatical impossibility. (It was only 2 weeks--I missed one weekend of preaching).

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

[This message has been edited by A. Marttinen (edited August 07, 2000).]

Review Lesson #3 of this quarter's Adult Sabbath School Bible Study Guide (Formerly referred to as the Adult Sabbath School Quarterly. It has some interesting things about the pastor, his churches under him, and his members of those churches under him.

In Wednesday's study, July 12th, I read the following:

quote:

---

In some parts of the world, the average pastor will have ten to fifteen churches.

Statistics show that in those areas where the ratio of pastor to member is higher (for example, one pastor for 1,000 members, in contrast to one pastor for 50 members), the church tends to grow faster.

This is not to suggest that churches should not have pastors. Neither is it to suggest that the number of pastors in the field should be reduced. It simply indicates that the more members are involved in the work of the church, the more the church grows.

---

In other words, the pastors should be equipping the members to do more than they are doing now.

We are a three church district. We normally see our pastor every 2nd Sabbath morning. We take care of the whole service ourselves on those other alternate Sabbaths.

Our members in the North American Division are spoiled and thus lazier and more stagnant. Those in the other divisions are doing the work of the pastor in most cases themselves and are thus more active or less lazy and growing.

Our churches need to say to our pastors, "Go work for souls that are perishing in darkness. We ourselves will carry forward the services of the church. We will keep up the meetings, and by abiding in Christ, will maintain spiritual life. We will work for souls that are about us." (Christian Service, page 171)

Our pastors need to "teach the members how to labour in the church and in the community."
(Christian Service, page 69). In other words, our pastors need to do the work of equipping the saints for service in the church as lay pastors.

Does this answer your question, Pastor Andrew?

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited August 07, 2000).]

Our pastor that just left ( Karl Tsatalbisidis) said the same thing you just said, daryl.

He 'drafted' me and another member to help with preaching in the 3 churches he pastored here.

Our new pastor is cut from the same jib, only he plans to spend the whole day at easch of the churches every month.

There is no reason for a pastor to be running a 'marathon' every sabbath, besides, it interferes with the teaching the pastor is supposed to do.

If he can be with members for the service and Bible study, he can get a better perspective where they are in their walk and help to guide them in what they need to do.

My perspective, anyway.
You can't get to know someone unless you spend time with them.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

Thank you for these "weapons" to arm myself with the next time someone tries to force the issue.

One of the reasons I became a preacher was that a minister needed a speaker in a pinch and asked me, a student, to cover for him while he was on vacation. I found a gift.

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

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[This message has been edited by Joan Rügemer (edited January 16, 2001).]

He'd need it.

Whew! All that preaching might make him rethink about being a pastor.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

Joan, your idea has actually crossed my mind. I'm just worried that the camera puts on 10 pounds!

Seriously, though, I tried video-taping sermons but I found that TV evangelists use at least 3 camera angles to keep things interesting. I don't think I could bear the scrutiny of that one, unblinking eye staring straight at me.

Here's another story from the Radio Shack Church:

In Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, they actually considered having a live feed of me preaching go electronically from one church to my other congregation. I took a call to Ontario before it could get too much consideration.

The problem there, along with many of the 2-5 church districts, is that local members are finding out what many pastors know--too much work is dependant on too few people. For instance, last week I made several visits where laity are not allowed to go (at least in my community)--prison and a hospital psych ward. These are lonely, must-see people whose job I cannot, absolutely cannot enable the laity to do.

It's a miracle of God that some churches continue to exist with their dedicatied staff, but sometimes reality hits. In Saskatchewan, just before the "nets," church after church were closing down like dominoes. The Conf. Prez. was actually toying with the idea of selling most of our church buildings an members in many communities going back to having services in their homes. It seems, though, that Satellite technology has been a Godsend.

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

I like the video taping of our pastor idea except it would add to the inactivity of the lay members.

I still think the lay pastor idea is a better option to think about.

In our local church there are several of us that take turns preaching when our pastor is elsewhere. I also lead out in the Prayer Meetings and our Bible study type meetings whenever the pastor is elsewhere. This is the way to keep the lay members more active.

It's the area of member and other type visitation in the home or in the hospital that we are still weak on as lay members. I must add, however, that we have two lay members in our church who have the same status as our pastor to visit our members in the hospital. The only requirement was that they be authorized by our church and pastor and take the same training as the pastors.

That still leaves the visitation of our own members by other authorized lay members for us to work on.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

-

[This message has been edited by Joan Rügemer (edited January 16, 2001).]

Our new pastor is planning on running a class to help the lay preachers to put a sermon together and how to present it.

Instead of overworking our pastors, we should be teaching our laity to do more.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

We had an excellent "Preaching Tips for the Laity" seminar put on by the Ontario Conference. It really refreshed my thinking too. Reports are that my elder's sermons are a whole lot more "tolerable" now.

Last week I ran a tape of John Nixon from the GC Session. It got rave reviews. I've never had so many people thank me for just "selecting" talent.

Fortunately a large bat that flew around the church during Sabbath School was caught before that Divine service.

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

God told us through Sister White that it is not good for the church to have a pastor hovering over it, and that we should not expect to have a sermon every week. Most of our services should be testimony services, not preaching services.

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

Sister Cathy,

Can you give us a reference where Ellen White says that as it is always nice to back up a post like this with a quote.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited August 10, 2000).]

Historical Sketches p-139
"Do not, my ministering brethren, allow yourselves to be kept at home to serve tables; and do not hover around the churches, preaching to those who are already fully established in the faith. Teach the people to have light in themselves, and not to depend upon the ministers. They should have Christ as their helper, and should educate themselves to help one another, so that the minister can be free to enter new fields. An important work is to be done in the world. New fields are to be opened; and the zeal and the missionary spirit that Christ manifested are greatly needed. Oh that the power of God would set the truth home to every heart! Oh that all might see the necessity of having a living connection with God, and of knowing and doing his will from day to day!" {HS 139.1}
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Pastoral Ministry p-99-100
"Help your church understand why it should not expect the minister to wait on them.--My heart has been filled with sadness as I have looked over the field and seen the barren places. What does this mean? Who are standing
as representatives of Jesus Christ? Who feels a burden for the souls who cannot receive the truth till it is brought to them? Our ministers are hovering over the churches, as though the angel of mercy was not making efforts to save souls. {PaM 99.3}

God holds these ministers responsible for the souls of those who are in darkness. He does not call you to go into fields that need no physician. Establish your churches with the understanding that they need not expect the minister to wait upon them and to be continually feeding them. They have the truth; they know what truth is. They should have root in themselves. These should strike down deeply, that they may reach up higher and still higher. They must be rooted and grounded in the faith." EGW'88 1752. {PaM 100.1}
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GCB (General Conference Bulletin April 12,1901 EGW

"I wish to tell you that soon there will be no work done in ministerial lines but medical missionary work. The work of a minister is to minister. Our ministers are to work on the gospel plan of ministering. It has been presented to me that all through America there are barren fields. As I traveled through the South on my way to the Conference, I saw city after city that was unworked. What is the matter? The ministers are hovering over churches, which know the truth, while thousands are perishing out of Christ. If the proper instruction were given, if the proper methods were followed, every church member would do his work as a member of the body. He would do Christian missionary work. But the churches are dying, and they want a minister to preach to them. They should be taught to bring a faithful tithe to God, that he may strengthen and bless them. They should be brought into working order, that the breath of God may come to them. They should be taught that unless they can stand alone, without a minister, they need to be converted anew, and baptized anew. They need to be born again. {GCB, April 12, 1901 par. 21}

"The barren fields in America have been presented to me. In every city in Michigan there should be a monument erected for God. You have been long in the truth. Had you carried the work forward in the lines in which God intended you to, had you done medical missionary work, trying to heal soul and body, you would have seen hundreds and thousands coming into the truth. But this will not be seen while you crowd into Battle Creek, leaving unworked the places which should have the truth. The Lord has said to his people; "Get out of Battle Creek. Work for souls ready to perish," and they should get out of Battle Creek. Go to places where the people have not heard the truth, and live before them the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do among them practical missionary work. Thus many souls will be brought to a knowledge of the truth. {GCB, April 12, 1901 par. 22}

"You will never be ministers after the gospel order till you show a decided interest in medical missionary work, the gospel of healing and blessing and strengthening. Come up to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty powers of darkness, that it be not said of you. "Curse ye Meroz, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof; because they came not to the help of the Lord." {GCB, April 12, 1901 par. 23}

"I was troubled before leaving California. I did not want to come to Battle Creek. I was afraid the burdens I would have to bear would cost my life. I knew that every church in Michigan needs the sanctification of the Spirit of God. I knew that the ministers laboring with those who know the truth, tending them like sick sheep, should be out in the field, planting the standard of truth in new places, bringing the sick to their houses, and clothing the naked. Christ says that his righteousness will go before those who do this work, and that the glory of God will be their rereward, But this work is not done by our churches, and the ministers are preaching to those who know the truth, when there are thousands who know nothing of the third angel's message. {GCB, April 12, 1901 par. 24}
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Pacific Union Recorder April 24, 1902

God's Power to Fit Men for Service

"Our large cities are fast reaching the condition of the world before the flood, when "God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." God-dishonoring sins are practised by people living in lordly homes; but some of these very people, under the preaching of the last testing message, will be convicted and converted. From His inexhaustible store of grace, God can endow all who come to Him. Looking upon humanity, fallen and degraded, He declares that the Holy Spirit shall be poured out upon all flesh. Many who have never heard the special truths for this time will feel the conviction of the Spirit as they listen to the message of startling importance. {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 1}

"In our large cities the message is to go forth as a lamp that burneth. God will raise up laborers for this work, and His angels will go before them. Let no one hinder these men of God's appointment. Forbid them not. God has given them their work. Let the message be given with so much power that the hearers shall be convinced. God will raise up workers who will occupy peculiar spheres of influence, workers who will carry the truth to the most unpromising places. Men will say, "Yea," where once they said, "Nay." Some who were once enemies will become valuable helpers, advancing the work with their means and their influence. {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 2}

"With intense earnestness God is looking on this world. He has noted the capacity of human beings for service. Looking down the ages, He has counted His workers, both men and women, and has prepared the way before them, saying: "I will send My messengers to them, and they shall see great light shining amid the darkness. Won to the service of Christ, they will use to the glory of My name the talents intrusted to them. They will go forth to work for Me with zeal and devotion. Through their efforts the truth will speak to thousands in a most forcible manner, and men spiritually blind shall receive sight, and shall see My salvation. Truth will be made so prominent that he who runs may read. Means will be devised to reach hearts. Some of the methods used in this work will be different from the methods used in the work in the past; but let no one, because of this, block the way by criticism." {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 3}

"God will set in operation many plans for the accomplishment of His work. The means that He has intrusted to wealthy men will be used to sustain His cause. His people will concentrate their forces more and more directly on the great consummation, believing and obeying the commission:-- {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 4}

"All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, He was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following." {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 5}

"Oh, what a work there is before us! Our ministers are not to hover over those who have received the message. With Christ's love burning in their hearts, they are to go forth to win sinners to the Saviour. Beside all waters God's messengers are to sow the seeds of truth. Place after place is to be visited; church after church is to be raised up. Those who take their stand for the truth are to be organized into churches, and then the minister is to pass on to other equally important fields. {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 6}
Just as soon as a church is organized, let the minister set the members to work. The newly-formed churches will need to be educated. The minister should devote more of his time to educating than to preaching. He should teach the people how to extend the knowledge of the truth. While the new converts should be taught to ask counsel of those more experienced in the work, they should also be taught not to put ministers in the place of God. Ministers are not gods, but human beings, men compassed with infirmities. Christ is the One to whom all are to look for guidance. "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only-begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth. . . . And of His fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." "As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name." {PUR, April 24, 1902 par. 7}

The power of the gospel is to come upon the companies raised up, fitting them for service. Some of the new converts will be so filled with the power of God that they will at once enter the work, imparting that which they have received. They will labor so diligently that they will have neither time nor disposition to weaken the hands of their brethren by unkind criticism. Their one desire will be to carry the message of truth to the regions beyond.
Mrs. E. G. White.
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Review & Herald Periodical Articles

"The Lord's vineyard is a more extensive one than the present working force is able properly to cultivate. Therefore it is necessary that every one should labor to the full extent of his ability. Whosoever refuses to do this, dishonors the Lord of the vineyard, and if he continues inactive, the Lord will disown him. As the human agent endeavors to labor, God works in him and by him. When the Lord sees that little real effort for the conversion of souls is put forth in regions beyond, when he sees that golden opportunities are lost, and that the spiritual physician is devoting his energy and skill to those who are whole, neglecting the maladies of those who are ready to die, he is not pleased. He cannot pronounce the "well done" upon such work; for it is not hastening but hindering the progress of his cause, when rapid advancement is most necessary. Time and energy and means are devoted to those who know the truth, instead of being used to enlighten the ignorant. Our churches are being tended as though they were sick lambs by those who should be seeking for the lost sheep. If our people would minister to other souls who need their help, they would themselves be ministered unto by the Chief Shepherd, and thousands would be rejoicing in the fold who are now wandering in the desert. Instead of hovering over our people, let every soul go to work to seek and to save the lost. Let every soul labor, not in visiting among our churches, but in visiting the dark places of the earth where there are no churches. {RH, June 25, 1895 par. 6}

In places where the standard of truth has never been lifted, more souls will be converted as a result of the same amount of work than ever before. The Lord Jesus has all power in heaven and in earth. If you will draw upon it, combining the strength of Heaven with your own, precious souls will be converted. The presence of the Holy Spirit is vouchsafed to all. Christ, our Mediator, renews our strength by the power of his presence. Every agency is to be set in operation, not to work for the churches, but to work for those who are in the darkness of error. When souls are converted, set them to work at once. And as they labor according to their ability, they will grow stronger. It is by meeting opposing influences that we become confirmed in the faith. As the light shines into their hearts, let them diffuse its rays. Teach the newly converted that they are to enter into fellowship with Christ, to be his witnesses, and to make him known unto the world. None should be forward to enter into controversy, but they should tell the simple story of the love of Jesus. All should constantly search the Scriptures for the reason of their faith, so that, if asked, they may give "a reason of the hope that is in them, with meekness and fear." The best medicine you can give the church is not preaching or sermonizing, but planning work for them. If set to work, the despondent would soon forget their despondency, the weak would become strong, the ignorant intelligent, and all would be prepared to present the truth as it is in Jesus. They would find an unfailing helper in him who has promised to save all who come unto him.
(Concluded next week.)

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Sermons and Talks vol 2

Will our ministers remember that it is not the particular duty of a minister of the gospel to hover over the churches. Those who do not labor for the salvation of others will soon lose their own confidence in God. All who profess to understand the plan of salvation have a special work to do for those around them, ever to be ready to speak a word in season to them that are ready to perish. If it is your desire to honor and glorify, not yourself, but God, He will give you a work to do that will result in the salvation of souls. But you yourselves must be in right relation with God before you can lead others to Him. You must have a humility that God can accept. Then He will be able to impress your mind, and give you a fitness for His service. {2SAT 302.1}

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It looks like Cathy didn't tell the half of it. Here are enough inspired quotes to look up.

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Edward F. Sutton

My mother-in-law, who is not SDA, has a good phrase for this "reliance on a pastor."

She says that Ephesians 6 tells believers to "put on the whole armour of God." This is the only way that Christians can stand the assaults of the devil.

What do some church members do now when they are struggling? They call the pastor!

There is no way that payed clergy can be there for everyone.

In Sabbath School, I've heard it said many times that a church's main job is to "shepherd" the members. Again my question is, "who taught these people?" Some want us to visit every home, discern the need, and feed the sheep. This is a good theory, but if that is the primary purpose of the church--to watch as the pastor and elders keep plates (people's Spirital, emotional, etc. lives) twirling on sticks at a Chinese circus by tending to them regularly, you'll get a lot of broken vessels!

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

Thanks for supplying the quotes Ed. I simply do not have time to look up everything. Forum participation is very low on my list of priorities, and I have very little time to devote to it. Besides this, I do not have the Index to the Writings of Ellen White, so the only way I can find anything is to take down the books, one by one, and go through the index of each one, trying to figure out what to look under to find what I want.

[This message has been edited by Cathy Sears (edited August 11, 2000).]

Thank you Sister Cathy for your post and thank you also, Brother Ed, for posting those quotes to back up Sister Cathy's post.

That's why we are in a forum where we can do things together. It's also one of the functions of a moderator to help out wherever possible which Brother Ed did in this case. He's not even a moderator of this particular forum.

This strenghtens my concerns about those who feel the church can't survive without a pastor's weekly presence. If the church can't survive without the weekly presence of a pastor, then we had better reach the place where we can survive without the weekly presence of a pastor or watch out!

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited August 11, 2000).]

Or I'll get a-hold of em with my trusty Athalon twenty-five million bullet one finger shooter and have em screaming to take turns preaching and so on, just so Ed will let em go home by 4pm Sabbath afternoon.

I'll teach em to not study, I'll feed em so full they'll need a shoehorn and vasilene to get in their cars.

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Edward F. Sutton

I was discussing this matter with my teenage son this afternoon, and we both feel that we would really enjoy having regular testimony meetings, not just occasionally (not that we ever have them at all now!), but often enough that people can share all the stories of how God is working in their lives and leading and teaching them. This is what really interests me, much more than sermons. Yet how few would even tolerate such meetings. I suspect that the majority would go elsewhere should a church do such a thing.

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

I would also be interested in hearing a testimony from everybody in the Testimonial Platform forum.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

Me, too.
I'd even forgo my usual impatient whining and crying if they'd just start posting.

Come on y'all, it ain't hard. Just tell us what God has been doing in your lives...... please?

Staying somewhat on topic, the week before the bat invaded our church we had a very blessed Sabbath day.

A woman from inner-City New York gave her testimony (she had never vistited the "country" and was grateful to her hosts), we had three "special musics," a canvasser shared his experiences and I recited the Sermon on the Mount from memory.

Thank for enlightening me about other forums. Like churches, I tend to be locked into a pattern of familiarity--I can't always talk to everyone in one visit. I'll check out the testimony forum after this post.

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"A man at peace with God and his fellowman cannot be made miserable."
4T p.88

Pastor Andrew

Cathy do you have e-mail abilities ? If so e-mail me @ edandlindasutton@y-city.net .

Also e-mail Gerry Buck and ask him about his learning curve with the EGW cd disk.

If no e-mail I will ask you to go back to welcome & see if my phone is there, if not I'll will ask Daryl how to give you our phone # .

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Edward F. Sutton

I don't want to stray from the topic, however, if you want to display your phone number for all to see, you could place it in your profile either under the Interest Section or possibly under the ICQ Section beginning it with Phone: 000-000-0000.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

Ed, I am already planning on buying the Complete Writings of EG White on CD-ROM, if that is what you have in mind. But it will take a year or 2 to save the money for it.

You can just go the E.G. White Estate and look up whatever you want. Buying the CD seems redundant to me. Just a suggestion.

Hi Pastor Dan,
I have the EGW CD-Rom, and it has been a blessing.
Where I live, it is sometimes difficult to get online, and having the CD makes it a lot easier to study.
Besides, with the CD I don't have to worry about thre EGW web being down or the provider pulling the plug.

It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

What does EGW CDs have to do with the Multiple Church Districts topic?

Let's get back on topic.

For those who want to talk about EGW CDs, please start up a separate topic on it.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

A bannana about this big.

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"A man at peace with God and his fellowman cannot be made miserable."
4T p.88

Pastor Andrew

quote:

---

Originally posted by A. Marttinen:
What do some church members do now when they are struggling? They call the pastor!

There is no way that payed clergy can be there for everyone.

In Sabbath School, I've heard it said many times that a church's main job is to "shepherd" the members. Again my question is, "who taught these people?" Some want us to visit every home, discern the need, and feed the sheep. This is a good theory, but if that is the primary purpose of the church--to watch as the pastor and elders keep plates (people's Spirital, emotional, etc. lives) twirling on sticks at a Chinese circus by tending to them regularly, you'll get a lot of broken vessels!

---

Hello all,

I've been reading the various posts here with interest - from the eyes of a PK (preacher's kid) and know how demanding the life of a pastor can be. However, I do have a tad bit of a problem with the above portion of a previous post.

You see, while I agree with all that is said about the laity doing more and that we expect things of our pastors that really are not their responsibility - I would hate to feel that I could not turn to my pastor in times of emotional stress/distress. As my pastor, that is part of what I feel he is there for. Why should I be any less important than those who have not found Christ?

While I do not know this for a fact, it has been my belief that the pastor is one we CAN turn to so that we can be assured of confidentiality in matters of a personal nature. Is that not true?? I would like to think that I could find that in other members - particularly elders, but have not always found that to be the case - and would be very hesitant to bring things of a highly personal nature to them.

Please understand!! I'm not saying that we should bring every little gripe and problem to our pastors... and as far as I'm concerned, Christ is the only Shephard I want... but sometimes I also think that we have to know there is a human being we can talk to for guidance.

My pastor is actually so busy I haven't been turning to him lately as I don't want to overburden him - and it's been difficult not having that. It's part of the reason I have turned to this place as I know there are solid Christian people here . . . and pastors as well! But, in all honesty, I have to admit that I have been feeling somewhat "detached" from my church family lately (even though I am there week after week) as I have felt more "needed" than "wanted," if anyone knows what I mean by that. I don't know - I'm starting to ramble a bit, but these are just the thoughts and feelings that the above portion of that post triggered. Hope no offense is taken by anyone as none is intended!!

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God Bless and Have a Great Day!
Peggy

Thinking of one or our past pastors, he is the lastperson I would want to go to with any kind of problem. Personally, I don't have much inclination to go to any pastor with my troubles. I'd much rather go to the women friends who have been there for me for years, while pastors come and go. However, I do very much appreciate our current pastor's willingness to make regular visits to my son-in-law in jail, who does not live in his district, and is not a member of our church. (He is a SDA church member.)

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

It sounds like I did a little bit of rambling on a previous post. I guess it was from the deep study of Ephesians that I came to the conclusion that we cannot rely on any human for power to stand against the enemy.

I agree that everyone needs an understanding ear from a reflective person at times. You can rely on most compassionate pastors to do that. I personally today visited a member in a psych ward, an ex-prisoner that came out of jail last week, counselled a young man whose engagement fell apart and encouraged an elder whose good friend just killed herself this weekend. This is how I spend almost every day of my week (between preparing for sermons, contributing to the forum, being there for my wife and 3 children). I'm just overwhelmed with the thought that while I'm doing my "good work" there are other marriages failing, kids getting into trouble, lonley people getting discouraged, etc. There isn't a mathematical chance that our church elders and myself can keep up with all of that because just as one problem gets "fixed," another one is started.

This is where we need divine help--and divine help comes only from a personal, daily, upward walk.

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"A man at peace with God and his fellowman cannot be made miserable."
4T p.88

Pastor Andrew

[This message has been edited by A. Marttinen (edited August 15, 2000).]

A pastor is only human, after all, and can't be every where at once.
I haven't met a pastor I couldn't talk to, but thereare a few I would hesitate to tell some things to.

That's where a good friend comes in, and if they can't help, ask the pastor, at least he will know who to ask if he doesn't know the answer ( think up )

I think we all owe our pastors a debt of thanks for all they do for the church.
There are some stinkers, but, you will find that in every profession.For the most part, they are dedicated hard working people that have our best interest at heart.

Thanks, y'all.

You're welcome.

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"A man at peace with God and his fellowman cannot be made miserable."
4T p.88

Pastor Andrew