HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,594
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 13
kland 9
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Member Spotlight
Kevin H
Kevin H
New York
Posts: 628
Joined: November 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
6 registered members (dedication, ProdigalOne, TruthinTypes, Kevin H, 2 invisible), 2,636 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14589
01/06/06 01:31 PM
01/06/06 01:31 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Above I said that we should go back to see what the pioneers originally taught. Most people do not have those resources available at their fingertips, but we all have ready access to the SOP writings. There are about 10 chapters in the Great Controversy that give an accurate history of the development of the sanctuary doctrine and its current application. If nothing else, every Adventist that is able should do a study of those chapters and note the additional important information that is not covered in belief 24.

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14590
01/07/06 04:41 AM
01/07/06 04:41 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The way we live our lives, the characters we develop, is what determines our eternal reward and destiny in judgment. During judgment, Jesus merely reveals our destiny, He does not determine it.

ED 109
The harvest of life is character, and it is this that determines destiny, both for this life and for the life to come. {Ed 108.2}

COL 74
He will judge every man according to his words and his works. Profession is as nothing in the scale. It is character that decides destiny. {COL 74.4}

COL 310
It is while men are still dwelling upon the earth that the work of investigative judgment takes place in the courts of heaven. The lives of all His professed followers pass in review before God. All are examined according to the record of the books of heaven, and according to his deeds the destiny of each is forever fixed. {COL 310.2}

COL 356
Thus actions repeated form habits, habits form character, and by the character our destiny for time and for eternity is decided. {COL 356.}

COL 377, 378
"This do, and thou shalt live," Christ said. In His teaching He ever presented the law as a divine unity, showing that it is impossible to keep one precept and break another; for the same principle runs through all. Man's destiny will be determined by his obedience to the whole law. {COL 377.4}

4T 429
They can never be admitted into heaven, for all worthy of an entrance there will love order and respect discipline. The characters formed in this life will determine the future destiny. When Christ shall come, He will not change the character of any individual. {4T 429.2}

TM 429, 430
The deeds done today are transferred to the books of heaven, just as the features are transferred by the artist onto the polished plate. They will determine our destiny for eternity, for bliss or eternal loss and agonizing remorse. Character cannot be changed when Christ comes, nor just as a man is about to die. Character building must be done in this life. {TM 429.3}

Also, everyone, not just the 144,000, must have perfect characters in order to inherit eternal life in heaven and the New Earth.

CSW 112
In the word of God they are to learn that all who enter heaven must have a perfect character; for then they will meet their Lord in peace. {CSW 112.3}

TDG 204
Christ did not leave this world until He had made it possible for every soul to live a life of perfect faith and obedience, to have a perfect character. {TDG 204.3}

UL 184
Christ came to the earth to give to men the pattern of the perfect character that all must obtain who would be welcomed to the future heavenly world. He found His pleasure in unwearied works for the good of men. His object in coming to our world was to leave an example of what the human character must become in order to be fitted for the society of heaven. {UL 184.5}

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14591
01/06/06 11:17 PM
01/06/06 11:17 PM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
quote:
The way we live our lives, the characters we develop, is what determines our eternal reward and destiny in judgment. During judgment, Jesus merely reveals our destiny, He does not determine it.

How can we determine our destiny and Jesus not determine it as well, if we determine it with him??? [Confused] The entire situation determines our sealing, not just revealing it!

Must be remembered of course that this "determination" is finishing a character, and not merely qualifying for heaven. It is Christ's character he fashions in us, and thus he is the determiner of our revealed character. It never was purely revealing the result that the judgement was about, but developing and determining the result as well....else there would be no result! [Big Grin]

We do need to tie this down the pioneer writings and any others since then that explain it. Apart from Andreason's The Sanctuary Service and Douglass' Why Jesus Waits, what else modern is there?

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14592
01/08/06 04:12 AM
01/08/06 04:12 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
Also, everyone, not just the 144,000, must have perfect characters in order to inherit eternal life in heaven and the New Earth.

Character perfection is not unique to the 144,000. The only thing different about them is they are translated alive after having endured LDEs. Everyone going to heaven, whether resurrected or translated, must have perfect characters. Some will be more mature than others, but none will have defective traits of character.

Obviously, therefore, character perfection is something we receive, rather than something we achieve. Everyone receives the gift of character perfection the moment they are born again. It comes complete with the mind of the new man, a gift God implants within us the moment we're reborn.

The only difference between the people taken to heaven is moral maturity. Everyone advances and matures at different rates. This will be true throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. The difference is not measured in degrees of sin, but rather in depth of righteousness. We start off like candle light, and our eternal goal is to shine like sunlight, like Jesus. But eternity isn't long to exhaust our potential to shine more and more unto the perfect day.

ML 250
"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit. This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another. {ML 250.4}

COL 65
At every stage of development our life may be perfect; yet if God’s purpose for us is fulfilled, there will also be continual advancement. {COL 65}

1T 340
Even the most perfect Christian may increase continually in the knowledge and love of God. {1T 340}

HP 186
It is your work to advance toward perfection, making constant improvement, until at last you are pronounced worthy to receive immortal life. And even then the work of progression will not cease, but will continue throughout eternity. {HP 186.6}

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14593
01/07/06 10:04 PM
01/07/06 10:04 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Good quotes MM.

Colin, here is a bit more from the pioneers:

Not too many months ago we were discussing the impact of the book Questions on Doctrine on two or more other threads. Here is a statement from the book The Doctrine of the Sanctuary on the contrast between the teaching of the pioneers on the atonement and the teaching in QOD.

quote:
Today Seventh-day Adventists do teach that complete sacrificial atonement was made at the cross (see Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrines [Washington DC] 1957 pp. 349-55). But our pioneers did not generally believe that atonement was made at the cross. Uriah Smith emphatically stated their consensus in his book Looking Unto Jesus when he wrote that “Christ did not make the atonement when He shed his blood on the cross. Let this fact be fixed forever in the mind. ([Battle Creek MI 1898] p 237). JH Waggoner expressed the same view when he wrote “there is a clear distinction between the death of Christ and the atonement”. ([Battle Creek MI 1872] p 110). Doctrine of the Sanctuary, Page 201 footnote 17.
QOD supported its position with one or more quotes from Ellen White, but if you look at these, it seems clear that Ellen White shared the view of the pioneers. When she refers to Christ taking His blood into heaven when He ascended, and made atonement there after raising from the dead she is consistent with scripture that atonement is always and only accomplished by the application of the blood of the sacrifice, never by the act of sacrifice itself. The sacrifical act makes the blood available, but blood is the only agent that atones and atonement is only accomplished when it is applied. So today, in the Day of Atonement, it is the application of the Saviors blood that is our only hope. In the judgement it is the remedy applied to our souls.

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14594
01/11/06 11:23 AM
01/11/06 11:23 AM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Yes, the judgement is Jesus atoning for us in his sanctuary ministry: his blood applied to the mercy seat completely to reconcile us to God in life and character, having renewed the mind already. He likely doesn't exhibit his actual shed blood, but rather holds up his pierced hands, while the ark of the covenant's mercy seat represents his very person, opening the way to God's presence as he does.

That the judgement is making the final atonement for those living today - the deceased having their faith merely confirmed (i.e. Vandeman's incorrectly reduced stonement for the death and the living), Christ's ministry is determinative and revelatory of the Christ-like character of his people.

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. #14595
01/12/06 12:56 AM
01/12/06 12:56 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
My brother commented one time that he understood better when he was a child why blood equals life in the Bible. As an adult he found it harder to grasp!

I'm surprized and frankly somewhat troubled that there is not much more participation on this topic. It is vital. The mighty angel of Revelation 18 was depicted to Ellen White as pointing to the sanctuary.

Re: The Sanctuary Doctrine Re-examined. [Re: Charity] #100342
06/29/08 10:20 PM
06/29/08 10:20 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Bumping what I thought was an important topic back then, which is why I am wondering why it stopped dead in its tracks?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Israel/Hamas Support and the Image of the Beast
by ProdigalOne. 04/23/24 11:21 AM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 04/21/24 06:41 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 04/01/24 08:10 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/31/24 06:44 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 04/24/24 02:15 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by dedication. 04/01/24 07:48 PM
Time Is Short!
by ProdigalOne. 03/29/24 10:50 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1