Did you have something specific in mind? I went back an looked, and so you presented, with no comment, an inspired quote, so of course I don't disagree with that. And I see this statement that I just commented that I agree with. And I see you asked a question. That's it. So I didn't see anything in a quick glance that I would disagree with. However, I didn't go back and read every post in this thread.

Now there's another thread on the Covenants going on, and I've commented on that thread things I disagree with regarding your view of things.

My view is close to Rosangela's. We agree on the following points:

a)God originally presented to the Israelites the same covenant He made with Abraham.
b)That covenant would have been sufficient for all their needs, being based on justification by faith and having the law written in the heart.
c)They rejected that covenant.
d)God entered into a different covenant with Israel, based on different principles, which had the law written on tablets of stone as opposed to being written on the heart.

IIRC, you disagree with these ideas. For example, as I recall, you believe the Old Covenant is still in force, and you see nothing wrong with it.

And the Lord declared to him, "I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee." Genesis 17:7. {PP 370.3}

Though this covenant was made with Adam and renewed to Abraham, it could not be ratified until the death of Christ. It had existed by the promise of God since the first intimation of redemption had been given; it had been accepted by faith; yet when ratified by Christ, it is called a new covenant. The law of God was the basis of this covenant, which was simply an arrangement for bringing men again into harmony with the divine will, placing them where they could obey God's law. {PP 370.4}

Another compact--called in Scripture the "old" covenant--was formed between God and Israel at Sinai, and was then ratified by the blood of a sacrifice. The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new," covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant. That the new covenant was valid in the days of Abraham is evident from the fact that it was then confirmed both by the promise and by the oath of God--the "two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie." Hebrews 6:18. {PP 371.1}

But if the Abrahamic covenant contained the promise of redemption, why was another covenant formed at Sinai? In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant. In delivering them from Egypt, God sought to reveal to them His power and His mercy, that they might be led to love and trust Him. He brought them down to the Red Sea--where, pursued by the Egyptians, escape seemed impossible--that they might realize their utter helplessness, their need of divine aid; and then He wrought deliverance for them. Thus they were filled with love and gratitude to God and with confidence in His power to help them. He had bound them to Himself as their deliverer from temporal bondage. {PP 371.2}

But there was a still greater truth to be impressed upon their minds. Living in the midst of idolatry and corruption, they had no true conception of the holiness of God, of the exceeding sinfulness of their own hearts, their utter inability, in themselves, to render obedience to God's law, and their need of a Saviour. All this they must be taught. {PP 371.3}

God brought them to Sinai; He manifested His glory; He gave them His law, with the promise of great blessings on condition of obedience: "If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then . . . ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5, 6. The people did not realize the sinfulness of their own hearts, and that without Christ it was impossible for them to keep God's law; and they readily entered into covenant with God. Feeling that they were able to establish their own righteousness, they declared, "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7. They had witnessed the proclamation of the law in awful majesty, and had trembled with terror before the mount; and yet only a few weeks passed before they broke their covenant with God, and bowed down to worship a graven image. They could not hope for the favor of God through a covenant which they had broken; and now, seeing their sinfulness and their need of pardon, they were brought to feel their need of the Saviour revealed in the Abrahamic covenant and shadowed forth in the sacrificial offerings. Now by faith and love they were bound to God as their deliverer from the bondage of sin. Now they were prepared to appreciate the blessings of the new covenant. {PP 371.4}

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts. . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34. {PP 372.1}

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness we accept the righteousness of Christ. His blood atones for our sins. His obedience is accepted for us. Then the heart renewed by the Holy Spirit will bring forth "the fruits of the Spirit." Through the grace of Christ we shall live in obedience to the law of God written upon our hearts. Having the Spirit of Christ, we shall walk even as He walked. Through the prophet He declared of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. And when among men He said, "The Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him." John 8:29. {PP 372.2}

The apostle Paul clearly presents the relation between faith and the law under the new covenant. He says: "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh"--it could not justify man, because in his sinful nature he could not keep the law--"God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 5:1, 3:31, 8:3, 4. {PP 373.1}

MM: I haven't read where God first attempted to offer the post-exilic Jews the new or everlasting covenant before compromising and offering them the old covenant. Here's what I have read about it. In this passage she applies Exodus 19:5, 6 to the old covenant.

S: What you are saying and what you are quoting doesn’t make sense. Ellen makes it perfectly clear that the promise of the New Covenant was first given to Eden, and repeated to Abraham, but not ratified until Christ’s death. This covenant was for all men at all times. Adam is my father and the New Covenant was to all of Adam’s descendants. Every man, including Israel, has been under God’s gracefulness which is the New Covenant. The New Covenant was that God would send a Savior through mankind and save mankind from Satan. If we put our trust in the God of the promise we are saved by faith just like Abraham.

The way I see it the COI were already under God’s covenant of Grace. He proved that by saving them from Egypt, the Red Sea, the desert, the snakes, sending them manna, water from a rock and making is so their sandals didn’t wear out! If they didn’t know God loved them and wanted to save them I don’t know what else God could do.

The Old Covenant was not a covenant of salvation, but a teaching tool made of types, shadows, priests, and sacrifices all pointing to Christ. Through it Israel was taught the plan of salvation and how to make their lives better on this earth. They were taught a health message, how to eat meat and keep from getting diseases, how to treat others so they could live in peace, what their sin costs themselves and others, how to be clean and live a healthy life.

In the Hebrew what we call “the Law” (torah) simply means “instructions” or “directions”. Then when the bible was translated in the Greek torah became “namos” which means a custom or command, but when translated into Latin and English it becomes the word “law”. Instructions . . . commands . . . laws! Can you see the digression!

God had already saved Israel and they were already under the New Covenant. So when God gave them instructions in righteousness to make them an evangelistic tool and a people that would bring the world the Messiah they misunderstood Him and though He was giving them things to do to earn their salvation.

The theology Paul developed is all in the Old Testament, so we should be able to get it from there, just like Paul did.

I've asked people to prove the legal idea without Paul. I know someone who challenges people to prove it from Jesus' teachings (some might say I do this, which is true, but I got the idea from someone else).

Scott, your response indicates you agree with me, that God did not offer the COI the OC because they rejected the NC. Here’s how she put it:

PP 371
God brought them to Sinai; He manifested His glory; He gave them His law, with the promise of great blessings on condition of obedience: "If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then . . . ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5, 6. The people did not realize the sinfulness of their own hearts, and that without Christ it was impossible for them to keep God's law; and they readily entered into covenant with God. Feeling that they were able to establish their own righteousness, they declared, "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7. They had witnessed the proclamation of the law in awful majesty, and had trembled with terror before the mount; and yet only a few weeks passed before they broke their covenant with God, and bowed down to worship a graven image. They could not hope for the favor of God through a covenant which they had broken; and now, seeing their sinfulness and their need of pardon, they were brought to feel their need of the Saviour revealed in the Abrahamic covenant and shadowed forth in the sacrificial offerings. Now by faith and love they were bound to God as their deliverer from the bondage of sin. Now they were prepared to appreciate the blessings of the new covenant. {PP 371.4}

“…they broke their covenant with God… a covenant which they had broken;” This is referring to the covenant described in Exodus 19:5, 6 – namely, the OC. Is this what you believe? That is, do you believe God offered the COI the OC in Exodus 19:5, 6, and that it is the OC they broke when they worshiped the golden calf and few weeks later?

Are you sure Jesus didn't reveal it to Paul like He did to Sister White? For example, Jesus showed Sister White details He showed Adam, Enoch, and Moses that were not recorded in the Bible.

Yes I agree with you! But one think you must understand is that when we try to earn our salvation we reject God's free gift of grace and we make God look like He could be bribed.

So when Israel tried to establish their own righteousness, rather than accepting the free gift of salvation that God promised in Eden and again to Abraham, they set themselves up for failure and, indeed, entered a covenant of works with God not realizing what He was trying to do for them.

We see the same thing happening today in Christianity. Salvation is a free gift that reflects God's goodness and His righteousness. That gift should give us assurance and cause a love response back to God, but how many live in fear not knowing if God will save them?

How many believe that their little group has it right and does it right and everyone else is lost? How many believe that they are special in God's eyes and get special favors if they do their little duties?

That the covenant and promise of God are one and the same thing, is clearly seen from Gal.3:17, where it appears that to disannul the covenant would be to make void the promise. In Genesis 17 we read that God made a covenant with Abraham to give him the land of Canaan--and with it the whole world--for an everlasting possession; but Gal.3:18 says that God gave it to him by promise.

God's covenants with men can be nothing else than promises to them: "Who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things." Rom.11:35,36. It is so rare for men to do anything without expecting an equivalent, that theologians have taken it for granted that it is the same with God. So they begin their dissertations on God's covenant with the statement that a covenant is "a mutual agreement between two or more persons, to do or refrain from doing certain things."

But God does not make bargains with men, because He knows that they could not fulfil their part. After the flood God made a covenant with every beast of the earth, and with every fowl; but the beasts and the birds did not promise anything in return. Gen.9:9-16. They simply received the favor at the hand of God. That is all we can do.

God promises us everything that we need, and more than we can ask or think, as a gift. We give Him ourselves, that is, nothing, and He gives us Himself, that is, everything. That which makes all the trouble is that even when men are willing to recognize the Lord at all, they want to make bargains with Him. They want it to be a "mutual" affair--a transaction in which they will be considered as on a par with God. But whoever deals with God must deal with Him on His own terms, that is, on a basis of fact--that we have nothing and are nothing, and He has everything and is everything, and gives everything.(The Glad Tidings)

So when Israel tried to establish their own righteousness, rather than accepting the free gift of salvation that God promised in Eden and again to Abraham, they set themselves up for failure and, indeed, entered a covenant of works with God not realizing what He was trying to do for them.

We see the same thing happening today in Christianity. Salvation is a free gift that reflects God's goodness and His righteousness. That gift should give us assurance and cause a love response back to God, but how many live in fear not knowing if God will save them? How many believe that their little group has it right and does it right and everyone else is lost? How many believe that they are special in God's eyes and get special favors if they do their little duties?

By scott: How many believe that their little group has it right and does it right and everyone else is lost? How many believe that they are special in God's eyes and get special favors if they do their little duties?

By MM: Did God raise up a Remnant Church out of the ruins of the Great Disappointment in 1844? Did He commission them with a special work? If so, does this Remnant Church exist today? If so, do they have a special work to do? If so, what is their special work and commission?