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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: asygo]
#112648
05/06/09 01:56 AM
05/06/09 01:56 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Before the change is fully effected in us, Christ's character stand in place of our character. When a person goes to heaven, they go with the character they have, don't they? Or do you believe their characters are changed in between the time they die and Christ's second coming? In terms of that substitution, God could judge everybody righteous. I think this is what Vaster was thinking of. What's this in reference to? However, you bring up an important point: there are people who would hate hanging out with God, and would find it torture living with Him. It would be mean of God to make them live with Him forever since they hate Him, so He does not. "The end of those things is death." Yes, it would be mean. It would be eternal torment. This is why the idea of God's tormenting people with literal fire is crazy. All he'd need to do is not veil His glory and not let them die. As Isa. 33:14, 15 brings out, "Who can dwell with the everlasting burnings? The righteous ..."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: Tom]
#112784
05/08/09 03:19 AM
05/08/09 03:19 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Before the change is fully effected in us, Christ's character stand in place of our character. When a person goes to heaven, they go with the character they have, don't they? Or do you believe their characters are changed in between the time they die and Christ's second coming? I'm not sure how to answer that. Certainly, some aspects of character are set. But can we say for sure that every thought and feeling - since the moral character is composed of the thoughts and feelings - are godly? How about the feelings of pride that pop up now and again in those of us who have sinful flesh? In any case, the SOP says that Christ's character stands in place of ours. That means that there is a context in which Christ's character substitutes for ours. Agreed?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: Tom]
#112785
05/08/09 03:20 AM
05/08/09 03:20 AM
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Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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In terms of that substitution, God could judge everybody righteous. I think this is what Vaster was thinking of. What's this in reference to? His first post on this thread.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: asygo]
#112788
05/08/09 04:20 AM
05/08/09 04:20 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: Tom]
#112789
05/08/09 04:22 AM
05/08/09 04:22 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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In any case, the SOP says that Christ's character stands in place of ours. That means that there is a context in which Christ's character substitutes for ours. Agreed? I would agree with this. The SOP also says that our characters will not change upon death, so this can't be that context, can it?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: Tom]
#112796
05/08/09 10:00 AM
05/08/09 10:00 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: Tom]
#112797
05/08/09 10:02 AM
05/08/09 10:02 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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In any case, the SOP says that Christ's character stands in place of ours. That means that there is a context in which Christ's character substitutes for ours. Agreed? I would agree with this. The SOP also says that our characters will not change upon death, so this can't be that context, can it? It doesn't look like it. So this "Christ's character in place of ours" must happen some time other than death.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: asygo]
#112824
05/08/09 06:51 PM
05/08/09 06:51 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Thanks for the post reference. So this "Christ's character in place of ours" must happen some time other than death. If Christ's character is standing in the place of ours at some time before death, and at death it isn't, what changes between the time before death and the time at death that makes it unnecessary for Christ's character to stand in place of ours?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: Tom]
#112874
05/09/09 04:39 AM
05/09/09 04:39 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Good question. But to avoid going around in useless circles, let's settle something first.
Christ's character stands in the place of ours at some time before death. True?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: PERFECTION OF CHARACTER -What is it exactly?
[Re: asygo]
#112884
05/09/09 11:39 AM
05/09/09 11:39 AM
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SDA
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Active Member 2020
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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Good thread! We're 'in Christ' and covered by His character and blood throughout our lives as I see it. The goal is the restoration of His image in us. If that's accomplished, when we die we relect His image. If we haven't overcome in some area, but God saves us regardless, the imperfection is healed in heaven I think. Claudia's original suggestion that perfection is more an attitude than a state gave me food for thought. As I was looking at scripture it seems that she is right that the crowning virtue is unselfish love. Everything other virtue however builds us in that direction so that we can't do it all at once. We climb the virtue ladder that Peter describes. 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. So while we are perfect when we have a natural desire to be a blessing in all circumstances we get to that point by climbing Peter's ladder.
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