I believe that supernatural entities will be involved. But I think tq was saying that the wicked multitude IS the destroying angel.

We could ask her. Do you want to be the good cop or the bad cop? I'll bring the halogen lamp.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or run and hide. But secretly I'm laughing. Did you see the quote I posted at the bottom of the previous page where Ellen White says the destroying angel in Egypt is the same destroying angel in Eze 9?

Arnold(speaking to kland):Where we seem to disagree is that it looks like you believe variable God and variable Hitler have the same methods.

This is totally non-responsive to my question.



And this is almost totally so.

Please allow me to try again. This time I'm limit it to what Jesus did, since what Jesus taught, He lived (per SOP).

What did Jesus do in His human lifetime which is in harmony with your idea of how the plagues will play out?

Also I'd like to repeat the question about the cross. The SOP tells us that every truth in Scripture, to be understood, needs to be studied in the light of the cross. How does the cross illuminate what will happen in the plagues?

I was hoping you would explain your insight into this, but so far you haven't. I don't think you've made this connection in your mind.

Here's a suggestion. The cross demonstrates both to what extent the enemy will go to promote his agenda, and to what lengths God will go to promote His. Satan pursued Christ His whole life, attempted to have Him killed on many occasions, starting from when He was just an infant. On the cross, Satan demonstrated that He would go to any lengths necessary, including torturing his victim to death, to accomplish his ends. We see these same principles in the Papacy and Nazi Germany, to name just two examples.

On the other hand, in Christ, we see that self-sacrificing love has no limit to the end it will go for the sake of the one loved. Rather than defend Himself from violence, Christ submitted to it. He could have called a legion of angels from heaven, but He did. As a lamb led to the slaughter, He was dumb.

On the cross He prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." So far from causing excruciating pain upon His enemies for eternal benefits, He allowed Himself to suffer excruciating pain for eternal benefits.

The plagues exhibit the same principles. Satan is up to his same tactics as on the cross. Exactly the same. On the cross, Satan sought to cause Christ excruciating pain, and make it appear that it was God who was causing Him pain. The penal substitution theory lends itself to this idea. In the plagues as well, he continues his work as one who destroys/tortures/blames what he does on God.

but again, i have to stress that i merely posted what ellen white wrote about the scene.

t: and this says how it will happen:

"He will give them that are wicked to the sword." {GC 656.1} Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2} The multitudes are filled with fury. "We are lost!" they cry, "and you are the cause of our ruin;" and they turn upon the false shepherds. The very ones that once admired them most will pronounce the most dreadful curses upon them. The very hands that once crowned them with laurels will be raised for their destruction. The swords which were to slay God's people are now employed to destroy their enemies. Everywhere there is strife and bloodshed.

After the saints were delivered by the voice of God, the rage of the wicked multitude was turned upon each other. The earth seemed to be deluged with blood, and dead bodies were from one end of the earth to the other. {1SG 211.1}) {GC 655.4}

Teresaq, I believe the "His messengers" in post #116227 (above) refers to holy angels. I do not believe they symbolize the wicked turning their weapons on the unfaithful shepherds of the flock during the outpouring of the seven last plagues. Again, not saying anything about what you believe.

The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnation upon the ministers. Unfaithful pastors have prophesied smooth things; they have led their hearers to make void the law of God and to persecute those who would keep it holy. Now, in their despair, these teachers confess before the world their work of deception. The multitudes are filled with fury. "We are lost!" they cry, "and you are the cause of our ruin;" and they turn upon the false shepherds. The very ones that once admired them most will pronounce the most dreadful curses upon them. The very hands that once crowned them with laurels will be raised for their destruction. The swords which were to slay God's people are now employed to destroy their enemies. Everywhere there is strife and bloodshed. {GC 655.4}

The mark of deliverance has been set upon those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done." Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2}

But the way you colored, bolded, and formatted the quote and the fact you said, "This is how it will happen" I got the impression you were saying the men in Eze 9 symbolize the furious "multitude" turning their weapons on "old and young, both maids, and little children, and women" during the outpouring of the plagues. So, you did more than just post a quote. Look at it again:

The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnation upon the ministers. Unfaithful pastors have prophesied smooth things; they have led their hearers to make void the law of God and to persecute those who would keep it holy. Now, in their despair, these teachers confess before the world their work of deception. The multitudes are filled with fury. "We are lost!" they cry, "and you are the cause of our ruin;" and they turn upon the false shepherds. The very ones that once admired them most will pronounce the most dreadful curses upon them. The very hands that once crowned them with laurels will be raised for their destruction. The swords which were to slay God's people are now employed to destroy their enemies. Everywhere there is strife and bloodshed. {GC 655.4}

"A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, He will plead with all flesh; He will give them that are wicked to the sword." Jeremiah 25:31. For six thousand years the great controversy has been in progress; the Son of God and His heavenly messengers have been in conflict with the power of the evil one, to warn, enlighten, and save the children of men. Now all have made their decisions; the wicked have fully united with Satan in his warfare against God. The time has come for God to vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. Now the controversy is not alone with Satan, but with men. "The Lord hath a controversy with the nations;" "He will give them that are wicked to the sword." {GC 656.1}

The mark of deliverance has been set upon those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done." Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2}

"The Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain." Isaiah 26:21. "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold everyone on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor." Zechariah 14:12, 13. In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall the wicked inhabitants of the earth--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried." Jeremiah 25:33. {GC 656.3}

At the coming of Christ the wicked are blotted from the face of the whole earth--consumed with the spirit of His mouth and destroyed by the brightness of His glory. Christ takes His people to the City of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants. "Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." "The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word." "Because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned." Isaiah 24:1, 3, 5, 6. {GC 657.1}