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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#116446
07/21/09 02:47 PM
07/21/09 02:47 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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The imprecise wording which he frequently chose and his convoluted grammar have created a large number of the "problem texts" that Adventists struggle to explain today. He wrote like a lawyer at times. Convoluted, but I don't think he was imprecise. At least not in the original context.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#116447
07/21/09 03:27 PM
07/21/09 03:27 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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So when your understanding of what the bible ought to teach conflicts with what it acctually says, you choose to mend the bible? I guess that is one option you have, not a very good one but non the less an option. Perhaps you haven't grasped what I am saying. I am not trying to teach anything non-biblical. What I am saying is that there are places where the Bible appears to teach something that it does not actually teach. Do you disagree with this? In those places, do you not think it might be easier to understand the Bible had the words been expressed more clearly to avoid such misunderstandings? And perhaps I am suggesting that if one comes upon a place in the bible that appears to teach something I do not think it acctually teaches, there could be many sollutions to the riddle. The most obvious is that I have either missunderstood what the passage says or what the bible says as a whole about the subject. In any of these cases the event is an invitation to more and deeper study. That the error would be with the author of the bible book in question comes very far down the list of things to consider when stumbling upon apparent missunderstandings. Paul was inspired. His writings fit in the Canon. They belong there, and he has much wisdom to share with us. Nor do I disagree with his message. I am commenting more on his manner of delivery of said message. It is because of his imprecision that many mistakes are made by those who read his writings. Is it 100% their own fault for misunderstanding? If so, what should they have done to make sure they did not misunderstand? What should God do? Would it be forcing their wills to cause them to understand? Peter comments in the Bible about how people misunderstand Paul's writings to their own destruction. It is interesting to note that we do not see any other Bible author mentioned in this sort of light! And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16 I guess what I'm saying is that it is a sad thing to see so many people go off the path to truth because of how they have misunderstood Paul. I have come across many people who are led astray because of his writings. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: asygo]
#116448
07/21/09 03:30 PM
07/21/09 03:30 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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The imprecise wording which he frequently chose and his convoluted grammar have created a large number of the "problem texts" that Adventists struggle to explain today. He wrote like a lawyer at times. Convoluted, but I don't think he was imprecise. At least not in the original context. The question i would ask is, if Adventism has a 'problem texts' issue with Paul, why is the first assumption that there is something wrong with Paul?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#116455
07/21/09 04:49 PM
07/21/09 04:49 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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Peter comments in the Bible about how people misunderstand Paul's writings to their own destruction. It is interesting to note that we do not see any other Bible author mentioned in this sort of light!And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16 im glad to understand your point a little better....but spiritual things are spiritually understood comes to mind. your reasoning seems to imply that if the scriptures were as plain as "they should be" people wouldnt go astray. i think that disregards the fact that we dont necessarily want God nor His ways, but our own. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: vastergotland]
#116456
07/21/09 04:52 PM
07/21/09 04:52 PM
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SDA
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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And perhaps I am suggesting that if one comes upon a place in the bible that appears to teach something I do not think it acctually teaches, there could be many sollutions to the riddle. The most obvious is that I have either missunderstood what the passage says or what the bible says as a whole about the subject. In any of these cases the event is an invitation to more and deeper study. That the error would be with the author of the bible book in question comes very far down the list of things to consider when stumbling upon apparent missunderstandings. amen and amen!! the problem starts with me and my understanding.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: vastergotland]
#116465
07/22/09 01:04 AM
07/22/09 01:04 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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The question i would ask is, if Adventism has a 'problem texts' issue with Paul, why is the first assumption that there is something wrong with Paul? Because it would take a whole lot more work on my part if there is something wrong with me. I'm not saying everybody is in that boat, but I'm sure there are not many empty seats in the boat.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: asygo]
#116478
07/22/09 04:29 AM
07/22/09 04:29 AM
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SDA
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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The question i would ask is, if Adventism has a 'problem texts' issue with Paul, why is the first assumption that there is something wrong with Paul? Because it would take a whole lot more work on my part if there is something wrong with me. I'm not saying everybody is in that boat, but I'm sure there are not many empty seats in the boat. im in the boat just so others dont feel alone.  but the study can be so much "fun"! one gets to learn a lot of things one didnt know that one didnt know. and get to see it come in handy in other situations. one thing i learned a long, long time ago is that it is ok to be ignorant. cant learn anything if i dont cop to being completely ignorant. but this may be beside the point.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: teresaq]
#116480
07/22/09 04:39 AM
07/22/09 04:39 AM
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SDA
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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and i must confess to being upset with God and the word quite often for not making it much simpler and easier to understand. but i guess He figures we need to grow synapses in our brains and we wouldnt be as much in the word as we should if He had made it easier.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#116483
07/22/09 04:48 AM
07/22/09 04:48 AM
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SDA
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Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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M: GC, I don't see it the way you do. I do not think it is unfortunate Paul explained things the way he did. Nor do I wish he had explained things more clearly. I am convinced the letters he wrote were inspired by God. Every word.
GC: Mike, do you see God as inspiring mistakes? The Great Disappointment comes to mind. Rev 10.
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Re: Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116489
07/22/09 05:13 AM
07/22/09 05:13 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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M: GC, I don't see it the way you do. I do not think it is unfortunate Paul explained things the way he did. Nor do I wish he had explained things more clearly. I am convinced the letters he wrote were inspired by God. Every word.
GC: Mike, do you see God as inspiring mistakes? The Great Disappointment comes to mind. Rev 10. So do you feel that Paul's mistakes were equally inspired? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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