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Re: The Covenants #11742
11/27/04 09:56 PM
11/27/04 09:56 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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AG 142
He took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. Ex. 24:7. {AG 142.1}

The covenant that God made with His people at Sinai is to be our refuge and defense.... This covenant is of just as much force today as it was when the Lord made it with ancient Israel.... {AG 142.2}

This is the pledge that God's people are to make in these last days. Their acceptance with God depends on a faithful fulfillment of the terms of their agreement with Him. God includes in His covenant all who will obey Him. {AG 142.3}

Re: The Covenants #11743
11/28/04 08:31 PM
11/28/04 08:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Not too many church members are willing to say, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. And yet this is the very covenant God expects us to make with Him. Indeed, if we don't, we are lost. Of course, it is understood, and taken for granted, that the only means by which we may uphold our end of the agreement is by being born again and then by abiding in Jesus. The old, the new, the everlasting, or whatever, the same thing is true of all biblical covenants - we must be born again and abide in Jesus. Without Jesus, the covenants are our undoing, our condemnation.

Re: The Covenants #11744
11/29/04 01:27 AM
11/29/04 01:27 AM
John H.  Offline
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Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
A covenant includes promises, promises are involved; but the two terms are not equal.

And we have more to do than just believe. "The devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19.

Re: The Covenants #11745
11/29/04 03:35 AM
11/29/04 03:35 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
"Night before last I was shown that evidences in regard to the covenants were clear and convincing. Yourself, Brother Dan Jones-Brother Porter and others are spending your investigative powers for naught to produce a position on the covenants to vary from the position that Brother Waggoner has presented." (1888 Materials 604)

"I am much pleased to learn that Professor Prescott is giving the same lessons in his class to the students that Brother Waggoner has been giving. He is presenting the covenants...Since I made the statement last Sabbath that the view of the covenants as it had been taught by Brother Waggoner was truth, it seems that great relief has come to many minds." (1888 Materials 623)

"That the covenant and promise of God are one and the same thing, is clearly seen from Gal.3:17, where it appears that to disannul the covenant would be to make void the promise. In Genesis 17 we read that God made a covenant with Abraham to give him the land of Canaan--and with it the whole world--for an everlasting possession; but Gal.3:18 says that God gave it to him by promise. God's covenants with men can be nothing else than promises to them: "Who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things." Rom.11:35,36. It is so rare for men to do anything without expecting an equivalent, that theologians have taken it for granted that it is the same with God. So they begin their dissertations on God's covenant with the statement that a covenant is "a mutual agreement between two or more persons, to do or refrain from doing certain things." But God does not make bargains with men, because He knows that they could not fulfil their part. After the flood God made a covenant with every beast of the earth, and with every fowl; but the beasts and the birds did not promise anything in return. Gen.9:9-16. They simply received the favor at the hand of God. That is all we can do. God promises us everything that we need, and more than we can ask or think, as a gift. We give Him ourselves, that is, nothing, and He gives us Himself, that is, everything. That which makes all the trouble is that even when men are willing to recognize the Lord at all, they want to make bargains with Him. They want it to be a "mutual" affair--a transaction in which they will be considered as on a par with God. But whoever deals with God must deal with Him on His own terms, that is, on a basis of fact--that we have nothing and are nothing, and He has everything and is everything, and gives everything." http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT04RedeemedfromtheCurse.htm

This is good too: http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT05TheAdoptionofSons.htm under the subheading "Mount Sinai and Mount Zion"

Re: The Covenants #11746
11/29/04 05:33 AM
11/29/04 05:33 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Tom, how does your quote differ from the one I posted above, where Sister White wrote:

quote:
Their acceptance with God depends on a faithful fulfillment of the terms of their agreement with Him.

Re: The Covenants #11747
11/29/04 10:01 AM
11/29/04 10:01 AM
John H.  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Tom, no matter how we might slice it, man still has a role to play in any covenant relationship with God:
"It should be remembered that the promises and threatenings of God are alike conditional."
{1SM 67.8}
I think Mike and I have given similar thoughts.

Re: The Covenants #11748
11/29/04 10:10 AM
11/29/04 10:10 AM
John H.  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Here's more:
"Many of us do not realize the covenant relation in which we stand before God as His people. We are under the most solemn obligations to represent God and Christ. We are to guard against dishonoring God by professing to be His people, and then going directly contrary to His will. We are getting ready to move. Then let us act as if we were. Let us prepare for the mansions that Christ has gone to prepare for those that love Him. Let us stand where we can take hold of eternal realities, and bring them into the everyday life. We are to sit at the feet of Jesus and learn of Him." General Conference Bulletin, April 1, 1903, p. 31. ("Lessons from Josiah's Reign")
{1MR 121.04}
It's absolutely true that God has infinitely more to 'bring to the table' than we sinful puny mortals do. But still we have our part to play, our obligations to uphold.

Re: The Covenants #11749
11/29/04 11:25 AM
11/29/04 11:25 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
What do you all think about this? My view is a little different from Tom's.

PP 370ff:

As the Bible presents two laws, one changeless and eternal, the other provisional and temporary, so there are two covenants. The covenant of grace was first made with man in Eden, when after the Fall there was given a divine promise that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head. To all men this covenant offered pardon and the assisting grace of God for future obedience through faith in Christ. It also promised them eternal life on condition of fidelity to God's law. Thus the patriarchs received the hope of salvation.
This same covenant was renewed to Abraham in the promise, "In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed." Genesis 22:18. This promise pointed to Christ. So Abraham understood it (see Galatians 3:8, 16), and he trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness. The covenant with Abraham also maintained the authority of God's law.... Though this covenant was made with Adam and renewed to Abraham, it could not be ratified until the death of Christ. It had existed by the promise of God since the first intimation of redemption had been given; it had been accepted by faith; yet when ratified by Christ, it is called a new covenant. The law of God was the basis of this covenant, which was simply an arrangement for bringing men again into harmony with the divine will, placing them where they could obey God's law.
Another compact--called in Scripture the "old" covenant--was formed between God and Israel at Sinai, and was then ratified by the blood of a sacrifice. The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new," covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant.
But if the Abrahamic covenant contained the promise of redemption, why was another covenant formed at Sinai? In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant.... But there was a still greater truth to be impressed upon their minds. Living in the midst of idolatry and corruption, they had no true conception of the holiness of God, of the exceeding sinfulness of their own hearts, their utter inability, in themselves, to render obedience to God's law, and their need of a Saviour. All this they must be taught.

So, what becomes clear? That there are two covenants: the covenant of grace and the old covenant. At Sinai God was not instituting a new or different plan of salvation, because this plan was already contained in the abrahamic covenant. But He was indeed instituting a different covenant - a provisory covenant (a teaching tool) - to lead the COI back to the abrahamic covenant, which, by the way, had not been abolished. So what I see is that both covenants - the eternal one and the provisory one - were running side by side.

Re: The Covenants #11750
11/30/04 04:22 AM
11/30/04 04:22 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
FW 26, 47, 48
God has given men faculties and capabilities. God works and cooperates with the gifts He has imparted to man, and man, by being a partaker of the divine nature and doing the work of Christ, may be an overcomer and win eternal life. The Lord does not propose to do the work He has given man powers to do. Man's part must be done. He must be a laborer together with God, yoking up with Christ, learning His meekness, His lowliness. God is the all-controlling power. He bestows the gifts; man receives them and acts with the power of the grace of Christ as a living agent. {FW 26.1}

God's promises are all made upon conditions. If we do His will, if we walk in truth, then we may ask what we will, and it shall be done unto us. While we earnestly endeavor to be obedient, God will hear our petitions; but He will not bless us in disobedience. If we choose to disobey His commandments, we may cry, "Faith, faith, only have faith," and the response will come back from the sure Word of God, "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:20). Such faith will only be as sounding brass and as a tinkling cymbal. In order to have the benefits of God's grace we must do our part; we must faithfully work and bring forth fruits meet for repentance. {FW 47.2}

We are to do all that we can do on our part to fight the good fight of faith. We are to wrestle, to labor, to strive, to agonize to enter in at the strait gate. We are to set the Lord ever before us. With clean hands, with pure hearts, we are to seek to honor God in all our ways. Help has been provided for us in Him who is mighty to save. The spirit of truth and light will quicken and renew us by its mysterious workings; for all our spiritual improvement comes from God, not from ourselves. The true worker will have divine power to aid him, but the idler will not be sustained by the Spirit of God. {FW 48.1}

In one way we are thrown upon our own energies; we are to strive earnestly to be zealous and to repent, to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts from every defilement; we are to reach the highest standard, believing that God will help us in our efforts. We must seek if we would find, and seek in faith; we must knock, that the door may be opened unto us. The Bible teaches that everything regarding our salvation depends upon our own course of action. If we perish, the responsibility will rest wholly upon ourselves. If provision has been made, and if we accept God's terms, we may lay hold on eternal life. We must come to Christ in faith, we must be diligent to make our calling and election sure. {FW 48.2}

Re: The Covenants #11751
11/30/04 04:23 AM
11/30/04 04:23 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
OHC 91
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." What does this mean? It means that every day you are to distrust your own human efforts and wisdom. You are to fear to speak at random, fear to follow your own impulses, fear that pride of heart and love of the world and lust of the flesh shall exclude the precious grace the Lord Jesus is longing to bestow upon you. {OHC 91.2}

Man's working, as brought out in the text, is not an independent work he performs without God. His whole dependence is upon the power and grace of the Divine Worker. Many miss the mark here, and claim that man must work his own individual self, free from divine power. This is not in accordance with the text. Another argues that man is free from all obligation, because God does it all, both the willing and the doing. The text means that the salvation of the human soul requires the will power to be subjective to the divine will power. . . . And it is the very hardest, sternest conflict which comes with the purpose and hour of great resolve and decision of the human to incline the will and way to God's will and God's way. {OHC 91.3}

Man is allotted a part in this great struggle for everlasting life; he must respond to the working of the Holy Spirit. It will require a struggle to break through the powers of darkness, but the Spirit that works in him can and will accomplish this. But man is no passive instrument to be saved in indolence. He is called upon to strain every muscle in the struggle for immortality, yet it is God that supplies the efficiency. {OHC 91.4}

Here are man's works, and here are God's works. . . . With these two combined powers, man will be victorious, and receive a crown of life at last. . . . He puts to the stretch every spiritual nerve and muscle that he may be a successful overcomer in this work, and that he may obtain the precious boon of eternal life. {OHC 91.5}

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