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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: Mountain Man] #118670
09/02/09 05:07 PM
09/02/09 05:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Quote:
The statutes and judgments given of God were good for the obedient. "They should live in them." But they were not good for the transgressor; for in the civil law given to Moses, punishment was to be inflicted on the transgressor, that others should be restrained by fear. {1SP 266.1}

The infliction of civil punishment symbolized the fact that the inevitable result of sin is capital punishment not emotional anguish ending in death.

PS - Turning the other cheek has its place and time, but so does retributive justice. In judgment, Jesus will not turn the other cheek. Instead, He will execute justice.

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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: Rosangela] #118692
09/02/09 09:53 PM
09/02/09 09:53 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
May the Lord help us personally to not repeat their sins. But yes, we must discuss their situation when we speak of the death penalty in the OT.
Most of us experience three steps in our Christian growth. The first is “I serve God because I fear punishment if I don’t.” The second, “I serve God because it is the right thing to do.” And the third, “I serve God because I love Him.”
They were at step one (if not below it). As you said in another thread, God meets us where we are.
you might like Christian Maturity: The Seven Stages of Moral Development.

i personally think i was far below stage 1 when i started out. stage 7 and beyond is a beautiful goal, in keeping with this topic.

Quote:
And the third, “I serve God because I love Him.”
if i may add to that, without fearing any kind of punishment, nor for eternal reward.

i would do it even if there were no future life because it is the most satisfying way to live.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: teresaq] #118709
09/03/09 01:35 AM
09/03/09 01:35 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
if i may add to that, without fearing any kind of punishment, nor for eternal reward.

Jean de Joinville tells a famous incident about a woman who carried in one hand a chafing dish of fire, and in the other a phial of water, that she might burn heaven and quench hell, lest in future any man should serve God merely for hope of the one or fear of the other.

This is interesting, but I'm not sure I would serve God if there was no heaven. And I'm not speaking about mansions or anything like that. I'm speaking about Christ, for Christ is heaven. If I had no hope of ever being with Him, I think it wouldn't be worth it to continue living.

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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: Rosangela] #118718
09/03/09 02:59 AM
09/03/09 02:59 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Amen!

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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: Rosangela] #118773
09/04/09 05:46 PM
09/04/09 05:46 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
if i may add to that, without fearing any kind of punishment, nor for eternal reward.

Jean de Joinville tells a famous incident about a woman who carried in one hand a chafing dish of fire, and in the other a phial of water, that she might burn heaven and quench hell, lest in future any man should serve God merely for hope of the one or fear of the other.

This is interesting, but I'm not sure I would serve God if there was no heaven. And I'm not speaking about mansions or anything like that. I'm speaking about Christ, for Christ is heaven. If I had no hope of ever being with Him, I think it wouldn't be worth it to continue living.
i would because i know what sin is.

but i dont think your two thoughts go together. serving God is one thing.

living without Christ is another.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: Mountain Man] #118774
09/04/09 05:55 PM
09/04/09 05:55 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Quote:
The statutes and judgments given of God were good for the obedient. "They should live in them." But they were not good for the transgressor; for in the civil law given to Moses, punishment was to be inflicted on the transgressor, that others should be restrained by fear. {1SP 266.1}

The infliction of civil punishment symbolized the fact that the inevitable result of sin is capital punishment not emotional anguish ending in death.

PS - Turning the other cheek has its place and time, but so does retributive justice. In judgment, Jesus will not turn the other cheek. Instead, He will execute justice.
did you ever notice how little effect "retributive" judgment had on the israelites? this is just after the earth opened up and swallowed korah, etc., and after the 250 were "consumed".
Num 16:41 But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the LORD.

one would think that would have a lasting impression for at least a week, but that is how sin is. it blinds and deceives us.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: teresaq] #118775
09/04/09 05:58 PM
09/04/09 05:58 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
i would because i know what sin is.

but i dont think your two thoughts go together. serving God is one thing.

living without Christ is another.


I, too, know what sin is. But what I mean is that if this earthly life was all there is, I would have put an end to it long ago.

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Re: Was Jesus Weak for Turning the Other Cheek? [Re: Mountain Man] #118776
09/04/09 06:01 PM
09/04/09 06:01 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
PS - Turning the other cheek has its place and time, but so does retributive justice. In judgment, Jesus will not turn the other cheek. Instead, He will execute justice.
have you also noticed that it is the cross that we will be studying for endless ages, not "retributive justice"?

Both the redeemed and the unfallen beings will find in the cross of Christ their science and their song.

It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love.

In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven;

that the love which "seeketh not her own" has its source in the heart of God;

and that in the meek and lowly One is manifested the character of Him who dwelleth in the light which no man can approach unto. {DA 19.2}

according to this, God, the Father, is just like Jesus, meek and lowly.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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