Imported from a different thread:

The use of the word "perfect" can be misleading. It can mean two different realities: 1) Complete in Christ, and 2) Mature in the fruits of the Spirit. Believers are born again complete with all the righteous fruits and attributes of God's character. Not one is missing. However, they are not born again mature. Like Jesus, they begin perfect (complete) and then they spend the rest of their lives becoming perfect (growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit). This includes recognizing and resisting sin, self, and Satan. It also involves preventing their confessed and crucified defects, weaknesses, and imperfections from resurfacing. They must work to keep them under the control of a sanctified will and mind. Of course, eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our ability to become more and more perfect (mature), more and more like Jesus.

Does the Bible envision converted Christians committing sins of ignorance? Or, do all the promises of perfection portray them living in harmony with God's will and law? Jesus said, Teach everyone everywhere how to obey and observe everything I have commanded. Would such a person break the law without realizing it?

For example, would they buy and sell or perform unnecessary labor on the Sabbath without realizing they are violating one of Jesus' commandments?

Do the promises of perfection portray them sinning ignorantly? Do the promises of perfection allow for, assume, tolerate, accommodate, take for granted sins of ignorance?

Or, do all the promises of perfection portray, envision converted Christians living in harmony with God's will and law, obeying and observing everything Jesus commanded?

Matthew
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

I would say no, as if they are guided by the Holy Spirit, they will know what is sin and what is mans 'letter of the law' as Jesus did when it came to the Sabbath and other issues..

1 John 3
1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Amen! 1 John 3:1-10 definitely describes Christians abiding in Jesus and being like Jesus. Some people think John took for granted Christians sin ignorantly.

"...if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father..."

Does the unconverted have an advocate with the Father, and be called on of His "little children"? I don't think so.

The problem seems to lie in thinking of sin as a blatant act contrary to the ten commandments. ie "buying and selling on the Sabbath".

But sin runs much deeper, and while the texts show God's children as walking with Christ and doing His will, and not cherishing any sin, we can never claim to be "without sin".

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Many today assume that since they keep the Sabbath and don't do any unnecessary work thereon and do not commit adulterery, or kill, or steal, or lie, then they must be righteous with an assurance of eternal life.
No -- all our righteousness is contaminated, laced with sinful motives, . We need the righteousness of Christ!

While a person walking with Christ will not knowingly sin and will give up all cherished sins, he still does not claim his own righteousness as a ticket to heaven. He is not perfect apart from the perfect righteousness of Christ. He is still totally dependant upon Christ's righteousness to fit him to stand before God.

I'm having a hard time coming to the same conclusion when I read promises and descriptions like:

1 John
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as [Jesus] is righteous.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Or, are you referring to the so-called righteous things we do in our own unaided strength apart from Jesus?

Also, do you think 1 John 1:8 ("If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us") means we will, while abiding in Jesus, continue to sin and we are deceived if we think otherwise?

Or, do you think it means "all have sinned", that is, everyone has a history of sinning, and we are deceived if we think, like the Gnostics did, we have never sinned?

I mean we can never say to God --
Look at me, I deserve to be saved.
Thanks for forgiving past sins, but now I am perfect and need no more forgiveness.

"The true follower of Christ will make no boastful claims to holiness. It is by the law of God that the sinner is convicted. He sees his own sinfulness in contrast with the perfect righteousness which it enjoins, and this leads him to humility and repentance. He becomes reconciled to God through the blood of Christ, and as he continues to walk with Him he will be gaining a clearer sense of the holiness of God's character and the far-reaching nature of His requirements. He will see more clearly his own defects and will feel the need of continual repentance and faith in the blood of Christ. {FW 53.4}

He who bears with him a continual sense of the presence of Christ cannot indulge self-confidence or self-righteousness. None of the prophets or apostles made proud boasts of holiness. The nearer they came to perfection of character, the less worthy and righteous they viewed themselves. But those who have the least sense of the perfection of Jesus, those whose eyes are least directed to Him, are the ones who make the strongest claim to perfection. {FW 54.1}

"He will see more clearly his own defects and will feel the need of continual repentance and faith in the blood of Christ."

Some people think this insight implies we will continue to sin in ignorance until the day Jesus returns and replaces our sinful flesh nature and body with sinless ones. Do you agree?

"The nearer they came to perfection of character, the less worthy and righteous they viewed themselves."

Some people think this insight implies the same thing I stated above. Do you agree?

Personally I think those who think they can achieve the righteousness of God have no real concept of the purity and awesome holiness of God's righteousness.

Our part is to stay intimately connected with Christ and walk with Him in humble obedience, laying aside all the sins that so easily beset us and trusting in His righteousness.

Know that today, as you seek His cleansing and walk with HIM following His leading, you are accounted righteous -- not by your own righteousness (which is NEVER GOOD ENOUGH to get you to heaven) but by Christ's.

Our duty is to walk with Him in humble, loving obedience, not try to establish some level of righteousness where we think we are no longer sinning.