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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Mountain Man] #127033
08/28/10 08:38 PM
08/28/10 08:38 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Ceased from sinning?

Can anybody make such a claim?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Mountain Man] #127036
08/28/10 10:07 PM
08/28/10 10:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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As it is written:

1 Peter
1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

PS - They will not go around boasting, "I have ceased sinning." They are too focused on Jesus to do such a thing. Nevertheless, they know God looks upon them and declares, "They have ceased from sin." As it is written, "Ye may know that ye have eternal life."

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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Mountain Man] #127093
08/29/10 09:03 PM
08/29/10 09:03 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Sweden
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
As it is written:
PS - They will not go around boasting, "I have ceased sinning." They are too focused on Jesus to do such a thing. Nevertheless, they know God looks upon them and declares, "They have ceased from sin." As it is written, "Ye may know that ye have eternal life."
Knowing such a thing would maybe be the devils most sophisticated temptation to the sin of pride.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: vastergotland] #127106
08/30/10 12:55 AM
08/30/10 12:55 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Good point. But please bear in mind it is not a sin to be tempted. Nor is it a sin to believe you are right with God and heaven-bound. It's called the "blessed assurance".

John 5
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 6
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 John 2
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Mountain Man] #127114
08/30/10 07:48 AM
08/30/10 07:48 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
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True, it is no sin to be tempted, nor to believe that you are right with God. Believing that you are right with God based on something you did or something that finds its source within yourself might be.

John 5; The Pharisees erroneously thought that searching the scriptures would bring them life in itself, but they only guide the student to the source of life.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: vastergotland] #127127
08/30/10 04:01 PM
08/30/10 04:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Knowing you are right with God is based on very different reasons than knowing why you are saved. Our salvation is based entirely on what Jesus did for us on the cross. Knowing we are right with God is based on believing Jesus satisfied our sin debt of death on the cross AND believing the fruits of the Spirit we experience while abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature are "righteousness and true holiness" (Eph 4:24).

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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Mountain Man] #127156
08/30/10 11:04 PM
08/30/10 11:04 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Are you aware that Ellen White says that we shouldn't say we are saved?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Daryl] #127168
08/31/10 02:26 AM
08/31/10 02:26 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Daryl, those comments by her are in the context of the Holy Flesh movement. It has a very definite meaning.

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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Mountain Man] #127334
09/04/10 12:00 AM
09/04/10 12:00 AM
C
Colin  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Colin, still not sure of something. Are believers, who have "ceased from sin", condemned because they possess sinful flesh nature?

It doesn't matter whether sinning or not, Mike, though knowing oneself free from condemnation requires knowledge of the gospel and faith in Jesus, too.

"Freedom in Christ", this lesson's title, is really about what grace has done - "what God hath wrought" (...as Ellen White would say): it is true, strictly speaking, regardless of what sinners do with Christ, though of course not totally separable from our response to Christ. wink

Jesus freed the world from the condemnation of sinful nature by putting that sinful nature eternally to death (the very death it was condemned to) in his person, on the cross - it was his own, assumed human nature. Knowing Jesus by grace through faith and hearing the gospel brings the saint knowledge & experience of being free from this condemnation, by being born from above and spiritually putting the old man of sin to death, each day and moment of living faith.

Forgiveness of guilt is a separate, vital experience - another legal point altogether, following confession of sin, etc.

Just so, Jesus could not have been "born of a woman, born under the law" if "under the law" means suffering guilt, as the lesson suggests: "under the law" has to mean born under the sinful nature's natural condemnation, freeable only by Jesus redeeming the world from that condemnation, etc.

To make it clear (enough?), sinful nature's condemnation was ended by Jesus at the cross, by tasting eternal death for every man as the Lamb of God. (Hence Rom 8:1c KJV shouldn't be there, as it fits only in Rom 8:4.) We know of that freedom as we die daily to sin, to live under grace, born from above each day (Rom 8:4, among other texts).

Sinful nature cannot (of course) go to heaven due to its sinfulness, so we receive immortality before we go to heaven; in the same sense Jesus at the beginning of salvation redeems us from our sinful nature. We experience that redemption from sinfulness when first actually converted, and receiving immortality is the end result for all, especially those still living to see Jesus come again, of being redeemed from sinful human nature. Again, it was executed eternally for all in Jesus' personal death, he having taken sinful flesh as his own.

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Re: Lesson #9 - Freedom in CHRIST [Re: Daryl] #127335
09/04/10 12:02 AM
09/04/10 12:02 AM
C
Colin  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Are you aware that Ellen White says that we shouldn't say we are saved?

What Mike says is true about EGW, but, Daryl, "cease from sinning" isn't saying or suggesting we are saved by ourselves. wink

We believe God has promised to empower us to achieve perfect Christlikeness, with Christ's righteous character traits,...not independent of Christ. smile

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