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Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? #128062
10/10/10 07:41 PM
10/10/10 07:41 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Can someone help me? Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not?

Geophisicists from the USGS say NO:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/03/08/DI2010030802570.html

The Institute for Creation Research says NO:
http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_sa_r06/

As someone who posted a reply here said, earthquake activity on a global basis may be “average” but on a regional basis it appears to not be “average”. He refers to a LA Times article:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20...ter-rumors.html

After analyzing the data, what do you think about this?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128064
10/11/10 04:46 PM
10/11/10 04:46 PM
Tom  Offline
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The last link didn't go anywhere. What would it mean to say that on a regional basis it does not appear to be "average"? Of course if you look at things on a regional basis, you'll find anomalies. That always happens.

For example, if you look at global temperatures, you'll find regions where areas are warmer than usual, or colder than usual; wetter than usual, or dryer than usual, etc. Similarly you'll see areas with more earthquakes than usual, and others with less, even if earthquakes as a whole remain the same throughout the world, so it would be interesting to know that this means.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128065
10/11/10 04:47 PM
10/11/10 04:47 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Sweden
It is reasonable to assume that the USGS would know. Also, Jesus words do not require or foresee an increase in earthquake frequency. Possibly they foretell the increased knowledge about the earthquakes that the interview in washington post tells about. The frequency of reports of earthquakes has been increasing.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128066
10/11/10 06:04 PM
10/11/10 06:04 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
The last link didn't go anywhere. What would it mean to say that on a regional basis it does not appear to be "average"? Of course if you look at things on a regional basis, you'll find anomalies. That always happens.

I've tried to correct the link. Try it now. The article speaks about a great increase in earthquakes in California this year. The article says:

Quote:
The number of earthquakes greater than magnitude 4.0 in Southern California and Baja California has increased significantly in 2010. There have been 70 such quakes so far this year, the most of any year in the last decade. And it's only April. There were 30 in 2009 and 29 in 2008.

Seismologists said they are studying the uptick but cannot fully explain it. Major earthquakes tend to occur in cycles, and experts have said the region in recent years has been in a quiet cycle when it comes to sizable temblors.



Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128067
10/11/10 06:18 PM
10/11/10 06:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Posts: 6,154
Brazil
We can see here that this year has been atypical in earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 to 7.9.
Also 2007 was atypical in all magnitudes.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128069
10/11/10 07:40 PM
10/11/10 07:40 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Sweden
A great increase in California earthquakes means nothing (unless you happen to be of the mind that only America counts as far as prophecy is concerned) when the world average is not changing. Also, a list of 10 samples is much to small to say anything about "atpyical".


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128089
10/12/10 06:44 PM
10/12/10 06:44 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
My impression is that what Hal Lindsey and others say is completely inaccurate, but that there has been a slight but steady trend upwards in the last two decades, as the following graph shows:

Along the y-axis is the average number of earthquakes of magnitude at or above 6.0 globally per year as monitored by the USGS, and along the x-axis are the years 1980 to 2009. The line is the 10-year rolling average of such earthquakes.

Some may point out that this is a consequence of greater monitoring, but it might equally be pointed out that better detection makes a difference only for small quakes.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128099
10/12/10 09:04 PM
10/12/10 09:04 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
And the explanation given by the USGS spokesperson that the apparent increase is based in a huge increase in measurement accuracy during those 30 years?
The detection 30 years ago of >=6.0 earthquakes in populated areas is of course unchanged, but was it equally well monitored in uninhabited areas back then?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128122
10/13/10 03:45 PM
10/13/10 03:45 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Today a sysmometer located in any country can detect >=6.0 earthquakes anywhere in the world. Probably sysmometers were less sensitive 30 years ago, but very probably an earthquake which occurred in an uninhabited area could at least be detected by the sysmometers located nearer it.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128123
10/13/10 06:12 PM
10/13/10 06:12 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
I would agree, that from the graph, it does seem apparent that there are more earthquakes the last 20 years than the first 10 years of the 30 year time period. One could even conclude that the number is increasing from the first 10 years. But, can any other conclusions be made?

Suppose the graph started around 1995 when it was 2000? Or even during the first 10 years or during the last 20 years separately. Conversely, consider the late 80s to the mid 90s. What would we be saying then? This is similar to global warming. If the earth was only 30 years old, there'd be a great concern. But the earth is over 6,000 years old for creationists and presents an even bigger problem for evolutionists. Is 30 years adequate to conclude anything about the earth in the grand scale of things? I would think they have data older than 1980. However, there are measurement and accuracy problems. So, since that's all the data we have, should we go with it and conclude things?

Consider if a new weather station was put into place this summer. If we look at the trend of the available data, we could conclude that in a few years, glaciers will be covering most of the continents. However, we would not conclude that because we know the earth is older than that and data/history exists, though we may not have it. If all you have is limited data, you cannot conclude very much.

So, is the number of earthquakes increasing? I would say 30 years worth of data is not adequate to conclude that. But, how many? How accurate? Is this a question that is impossible to answer?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128141
10/14/10 04:47 PM
10/14/10 04:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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The mantle of the earth has been moving and shifting since the Flood. Earthquakes are a fact of life, as are floods, droughts, tornadoes, volcanoes, etc. Do they mean anything other than the earth is waxing old and groaning? "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." "The earth shall wax old like a garment." Ellen observed:

Quote:
There is to be such a time of trouble as there never was since there was a nation. Already nations are angry, already Satan is working with signs and lying wonders, and this will increase until the end. God will use his enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored. These enemies of God are living evidences of the truth of His word; they are fulfilling that which holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. God does not forewarn His people of trifles; the repetition of caution and warnings shows that there is importance in that which was spoken. Do those who claim to want light, treat the light with the respect which is due? {PC 136}

As I hear of the terrible calamities that from week to week are taking place, I ask myself: What do these things mean? The most awful disasters are following one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces, but in them God's purpose may be read. They are one of the means by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger. {CCh 355.4}

At this time [during the flood] immense forests were buried. These have since been changed to coal, forming the extensive coal beds that now exist, and also yielding large quantities of oil. The coal and oil frequently ignite and burn beneath the surface of the earth. Thus rocks are heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. The action of the water upon the lime adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes, and fiery issues. As the fire and water come in contact with ledges of rock and ore, there are heavy explosions underground, which sound like muffled thunder. The air is hot and suffocating. Volcanic eruptions follow; and these often failing to give sufficient vent to the heated elements, the earth itself is convulsed, the ground heaves and swells like the waves of the sea, great fissures appear, and sometimes cities, villages, and burning mountains are swallowed up. These wonderful manifestations will be more and more frequent and terrible just before the second coming of Christ and the end of the world, as signs of its speedy destruction. {PP 108.2}

The depths of the earth are the Lord's arsenal, whence were drawn weapons to be employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters gushing from the earth united with the waters from heaven to accomplish the work of desolation. Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. These judgments are sent that those who lightly regard God's law and trample upon His authority may be led to tremble before His power and to confess His just sovereignty. As men have beheld burning mountains pouring forth fire and flames and torrents of melted ore, drying up rivers, overwhelming populous cities, and everywhere spreading ruin and desolation, the stoutest heart has been filled with terror and infidels and blasphemers have been constrained to acknowledge the infinite power of God. {PP 109.1}

Greater wonders than have yet been seen will be witnessed by those upon the earth a short period previous to the coming of Christ. "And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke." "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent; and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." {1SP 84.2}

The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {1SP 84.3}

In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud, into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks, and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence. Whole rivers will be dried up. The earth will be convulsed, and there will be dreadful eruptions and earthquakes everywhere. God will plague the wicked inhabitants of the earth until they are destroyed from off it. The saints are preserved in the earth in the midst of these dreadful commotions, as Noah was preserved in the ark at the time of the flood. {1SP 84.4}

Preceding the great sign of the coming of the Son of man, there will be signs and wonders in the heavens. {3MR 311.4}

I expect that during the year 1890 there will be great mortality. There will be crimes greater than any now on record. There will be weeping and lamentation and woe. During the past year, 1889, there has been brought to us almost daily the news of disasters by sea and by land--unusually destructive fires; earthquakes burying cities and villages with their inhabitants; railway accidents most terrible; tornadoes and floods that destroyed an immense amount of property, including the terrible Johnstown and Williamsport floods, which destroyed more than two thousand lives. {3MR 312.1}

The disasters of the past year in America have caused hearts to tremble, and similar disasters have fallen upon other countries. Already sprinklings from the vials of God's wrath have been let fall upon land and sea, affecting the elements of the air. The causes of these unusual conditions are being searched for, but in vain. {3MR 312.2}

God has not restrained the powers of darkness from carrying forward their deadly work of vitiating the air, one of the sources of life and nutrition, with a deadly miasma. Not only is vegetable life affected, but man suffers from pestilences. Cholera and unexplainable diseases have broken out. Diphtheria, raging to a limited extent, is gathering its harvest of precious little ones, and seems to be almost uncontrollable. {3MR 312.3}

These things are the result of drops from the vials of God's wrath being sprinkled on the earth, and are but faint representations of what will be in the near future. Earthquakes in various places have been felt, but these disturbances have been very limited. This year we may expect to have more. During the year that has just closed, whole cities have become nearly extinct. Thousands of people have been buried in the bowels of the earth. Premonitory convulsions have been felt in many places, giving warning of what may come as a surprise when the earth shakes and opens. Terrible shocks will come upon the earth, and the lordly palaces erected at great expense will certainly become heaps of ruins. The earth's crust will be rent by the outbursts of the elements concealed in the bowels of the earth. These elements, once broken loose, will sweep away the treasures of those who for years have been adding to their wealth by securing large possessions at starvation prices from those in their employ. And the religious world, too, is to be terribly shaken; for the end of all things is at hand.--Ms 24, 1891. {3MR 312.4}

John the Revelator represents the forces of the earth as four winds, which are held in check by angels delegated to do this work. He declares: "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" [Revelation 7:1-3]. {19MR 279.1}

From this vision we can learn why so many are preserved from calamity. If these winds were allowed to blow upon the earth, they would create havoc and desolation. But the world's intricate machinery is running under the Lord's supervision. Hurricanes, threatening to break forth, are held under control by the regulations of the One who is the Protector of the trembling ones that fear God and keep His commandments. The Lord holds back the tempestuous winds. He will not suffer them to go forth on their death-mission of vengeance until His servants are sealed in their foreheads. {19MR 279.2}

Frequently we hear of earthquakes, of tempests and tornadoes, accompanied with thunder and lightning. Apparently these are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces. But God has a purpose in permitting these calamities to occur. They are one of His means of calling men and women to their senses. By unusual workings through nature God will express to doubting human agencies that which He clearly reveals in His Word. He will answer the question, "Who hath gathered the wind in His fists?" He will reveal Himself as the One who "maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind." "He bringeth the wind out of His treasuries." "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever." "He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth." "He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: He toucheth the hills, and they smoke." {19MR 279.3}

Local disturbances in nature are permitted to take place as symbols of that which may be expected all over the world when the angels loose the four winds of the earth. The forces of nature are under the direction of an Eternal Agency. Science, in her pride, may seek to explain strange happenings on land and on sea; but science fails of tracing in these things the workings of Providence. Science fails of perceiving that intemperance is the cause of most of the frequent accidents so terrible in their results. {19MR 280.1}

Men on whom devolve grave responsibilities in safeguarding their fellow men from accident and harm, are often untrue to their trust. Because of indulgence in tobacco and liquor, they do not keep the mind clear and composed as did Daniel in the courts of Babylon. They becloud the brain by using stimulating narcotics, and temporarily lose their reasoning faculties. Many a shipwreck upon the high seas can be traced to liquor drinking. Time and again have unseen angels protected vessels on the broad ocean because on board there were some praying passengers who had faith in God's keeping power. The Lord has power to hold in abeyance the angry waves so impatient to destroy and engulf His children. {19MR 280.2}

The same Hand that kept the fiery serpents of the wilderness from entering the camp of the Israelites until God's chosen people provoked Him with their constant murmurs and complaints, is today guarding the honest in heart. Were this restraining Hand withdrawn, the enemy of our souls would at once begin the work of destruction that he has so long desired to accomplish. And because God's long-continued forbearance is not now recognized, the forces of evil are already, to a limited degree, permitted to destroy. How soon human agencies will see blotted out of existence their magnificent buildings, which are their pride! {19MR 281.1}

How often have those in danger of being destroyed by terrible outbreakings of winds and waters been mercifully shielded from harm! Do we realize that we have been spared from destruction only because of the protecting care of unseen agencies? Although many ships have gone down and many men and women on board have perished, God has mercifully spared His people. But we should not be surprised if some of those who love and fear God were to be engulfed in the tempestuous waters of the ocean. They would sleep until the Lifegiver comes to give them life. We are not to cast one word of reflection upon God or upon His manner of working. {19MR 281.2}

All these symbolical representations serve a double purpose. From them God's people learn not only that the physical forces of the earth are under the control of the Creator, but also that under His control are the religious movements of the nations. Especially is this true with reference to the enforcement of Sunday observance. He who gave His people, through His servant Moses, instruction in regard to the sanctity of the Sabbath--as recorded in Exodus 31:11-18--will in the hour of trial preserve those who keep this day as a sign of loyalty to Him. God's commandment-keeping people believe that He will fulfill His promise to protect them. By actual experience they know that the Lord sanctifies them and grants to them the seal of His approval as commandment keepers. Those who read the Scriptures with an intense desire to know what the Spirit saith unto the churches, know that God lives and reigns. {19MR 281.3}

In the last days Satan will appear as an angel of light, with great power and heavenly glory, and claim to be the Lord of the whole earth. He will declare that the Sabbath has been changed from the seventh to the first day of the week; and as lord of the first day of the week he will present this spurious sabbath as a test of loyalty to him. Then will take place the final fulfillment of the Revelator's prophecy. [Revelation 13:4-18, quoted.] {19MR 282.1}

In connection with this scripture, the entire fourteenth chapter of Revelation should be studied much by God's people. Verses nine to eleven bring to view the special message of warning against worshiping the beast and his image, and receiving his mark in the forehead or in the hand. This warning is to be given to the world by those who are mentioned in the twelfth verse as keeping "the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." {19MR 282.2}

Christ is the first and the last, the beginning and the end of the creation of God. Those who sincerely work for the salvation of souls will improve their capabilities to the utmost; and as they work unselfishly, they will have Divine assistance.--Ms 153, 1902.

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. . . In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. {CH 461.1}

The passages above make two things very clear - 1) God sometimes uses the forces of nature to cause death and destruction, and 2) God sometimes permits evil angels to use the forces of nature to cause death and destruction.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128145
10/14/10 08:16 PM
10/14/10 08:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,416
Midland
Interesting, "God will use his enemies". Seems, if I recall correctly and ignoring what I believe it means, in the past you suggested He doesn't. Is that correct?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128152
10/14/10 10:56 PM
10/14/10 10:56 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
That conclusion is only necessary to draw if your foundational assumtion is that beings with free will are really not free at all but need permission to do anything. If beings with free will are indeed free, then such beings with the physical capacity to create earthquakes might be doing so occationally despite of what God thinks about it.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128174
10/15/10 04:54 PM
10/15/10 04:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, do you believe evil angels are at liberty to cause death and destruction at will?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128175
10/15/10 05:02 PM
10/15/10 05:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Quote:
God will use his enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored. These enemies of God are living evidences of the truth of His word; they are fulfilling that which holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment. Ancient Babylon is a prime example. "Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations." Evil angels, of course, are the ultimate example of God using His enemies to mete out punishment.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128196
10/16/10 12:59 AM
10/16/10 12:59 AM
Tom  Offline
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
The passages above make two things very clear - 1) God sometimes uses the forces of nature to cause death and destruction...


As long as we remember that inspiration often presents God as doing that which He permits, this is fine. But if we start confusing God's role with the role of the enemy, that's problematic. That is, God and Satan are not the same; they do not do the same things.

Quote:
It was generally believed by the Jews that sin is punished in this life. Every affliction was regarded as the penalty of some wrongdoing, either of the sufferer himself or of his parents. It is true that all suffering results from the transgression of God’s law, but this truth had become perverted. Satan, the author of sin and all its results, had led men to look upon disease and death as proceeding from God,—as punishment arbitrarily inflicted on account of sin. (DA 471)


Satan is the author of sin and all its results. Are death and destruction the results of sin? Most assuredly. Before sin existed, they did not exist. These are elements of Satan's government. So why would God use the elements of Satan's government to administer His own?

He doesn't. He uses the elements of agape, elements which were revealed in the life of His Son, whose "whole purpose" during His earthly mission was "the revelation of God" (ST 1/20/90). All that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus Christ, while hear in the flesh.

What did Jesus Christ reveal?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128197
10/16/10 01:03 AM
10/16/10 01:03 AM
Tom  Offline
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Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment. Ancient Babylon is a prime example. "Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations." Evil angels, of course, are the ultimate example of God using His enemies to mete out punishment.


God destroys, but how? Like Satan does? By actively taking violent action against His enemies? Is violence an integral part of God's government?

Or does He destroy by permitting those who have chosen to act contrary to Him and His principles to experience the results of their choices?

Quote:
We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. (GC 36)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128202
10/16/10 03:03 AM
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LOL -- here I haven't posted for many months, and come back and see pretty much the same people doing the same arguments and even using the same quotes! I bet you guys can quote those passages from memory, right to the book and page and paragraph!

Personally I think earthquakes are the result of natural cases, though the reason we have earthquakes at all heralds back to the flood when the perfect world was shattered.

Probably the highest level of earthquakes took place during and immediately after the flood, a time when the whole earth's crust convulsed and fragmented, and then settled back into a more or less stable condition.

Some writers suggest that there was another HUGE earthquake about 100 years after the flood -- from the text in Genesis 10:25 "In the days of Peleg was the earth divided" ---
They suggest the continents were ripped apart at that time.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: dedication] #128204
10/16/10 03:22 AM
10/16/10 03:22 AM
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I agree with your post. Also the observation, to an extent. I certainly agree there is a lot of repetition, however there are also new ideas. For example, in another thread I discovered that Rosangela has the idea that our sinful nature changes, which is not something I recognized she believed, although we've discussed the subject for a number of years now. So there are things to learn, despite the repetition.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128207
10/16/10 04:05 AM
10/16/10 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, do you believe evil angels are at liberty to cause death and destruction at will?
As far as they do cause death and destruction, it is by their will and against Gods will. Any other answer must mean that God wills death and destruction, which further must mean that Jesus was not the most clear example of who God is.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128224
10/16/10 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tom
God destroys, but how? Like Satan does? By actively taking violent action against His enemies? Is violence an integral part of God's government? Or does He destroy by permitting those who have chosen to act contrary to Him and His principles to experience the results of their choices?

Let's look at Elijah and the bands of fifty. How did their sins cause fire to come down from above and burn them alive?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128234
10/17/10 03:25 AM
10/17/10 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Let's look at Elijah and the bands of fifty. How did their sins cause fire to come down from above and burn them alive?


Let's consider Jesus Christ. When He was urged to destroy His enemies with fire, how did He respond?

Jesus Christ was the revelation of the Father, not Elijah. Let's start in the right place!

Let's also remember that all that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Father. We don't need to go to Elijah to learn what God is like.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128236
10/17/10 07:18 AM
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Jesus shows us that God does not want people to die.

Ez. 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.

While I agree that most all the problems and disasters, sickness and destruction have come upon the world as a result of mankinds sinful doings, I cannot dismiss the Biblical revelations that at times God does step in to stop wickedness in its tracks.

On another thread I was reading about "why sin won't arise again" --
And obviously its because the saved will know and fully understand what sin does -- it brings about terrible things, cruelty, terrors, sickness, pain, heartaches, destruction -- Those are all natural consequences that sinning brings in its wake. In contrast to the joys of heaven, and the love flowing from the throne, nobody will ever again desire sin, for it will be utterly revolting to even consider.


All the saved will know that sin is terrible, and will want nothing to do with it forever.

So yes, the destruction and terrors and death in this world is a result of sin.

Yet, the Biblical record does indicate that God has (and will) at certain points stopped evil in its tracks, not allowing it to fully take over.


In the stories about "fire from heaven"
The disciples urged Jesus to command fire to come down from heaven to destroy a village that refused to invite him in. But Jesus does not force His presence upon anyone.


In the case fo Elijah, King Ahaziah, knew all about the history of Elijah and king Ahab. Yet, instead of going to Elijah to inquire of God, he "sent some of his servants to make inquiry of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether or not he would recover. These messengers were met by Elijah, with the words of stern rebuke, "Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron?"


"God had cause for displeasure at Ahaziah's impiety. What had the Lord not done to win the hearts of the people of Israel, and to inspire them with confidence in himself? For ages he had been giving his people manifestations of unexampled kindness and love. From the beginning, he had shown that his "delights were with the sons of men." He had been a very present help to all who sought him in sincerity. Yet now the king of Israel, turning from God to ask help of the worst enemy of his people, proclaimed to the heathen that he had more confidence in their idols than in the God of heaven.{RH, January 15, 1914 par. 12}{PK 211.2}

Ahaziah then sent soldiers to force Elijah to come to him. They were sent to intimidate...

Only the last captain treated the prophet with respect.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: dedication] #128241
10/17/10 09:35 PM
10/17/10 09:35 PM
Tom  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
While I agree that most all the problems and disasters, sickness and destruction have come upon the world as a result of mankinds sinful doings, I cannot dismiss the Biblical revelations that at times God does step in to stop wickedness in its tracks.


I agree with this. However, I believe that for God to step in to stop wickedness in its tracks, it is sufficient for him to release His protection:sin/Satan is that bad.

That is, God is constantly protecting us against a thousand dangers, all of them unseen. I think we are completely "off" in terms of what we think would happen if God "let go" of His protection. I think people have a good idea that God protects us from Satan, and that if God allowed Satan to cause destruction and death, it's easy to understand that, but I think people in general have no concept of how much effort is involved on God's part to prevent natural disasters.

I think people think that the normal course of action is good weather, the right amount of moisture, no earthquakes, no volcanic eruptions, no hurricanes, and so forth, and don't recognize that God is constantly working to keep our earth on course. Every day we have good weather with no natural disasters we owe to God's grace; but we take it for granted, as if this is the way things ought to be.

I believe God is constantly at work, and when He "let's go," then bad things happen, and it's not necessary for Him to do more than this.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128244
10/18/10 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment.
So, would you say that God works together with Satan to cause destruction towards those He deems necessary? Kind of like a partnership?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128252
10/20/10 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment.
So, would you say that God works together with Satan to cause destruction towards those He deems necessary? Kind of like a partnership?


Never as a partnership.

Though we do see satan bargaining with God in the book of Job. "You've built a hedge around Job. Just let me at Job and see if he doesn't curse you." And God says, "OK, but only so much".

The whole sin situation for the last 6000 years was allowed to play out to show the universe just what sin does. And so basically the mess this world is in is doing just that -- showing the results of sin.

When we say "God used His enemies to execute justice"
What does it mean?
Anyone who has studied history is appalled by the greed for power inherent in mankind. Generals marshelling their forces to go out and conquer and kill and capture. The intrique, plotting, betrayal, that fills the history books is mindboggling.

So we see nations around Israel rising to power and going out to do what these power hunger generals do. When God's protection was over Israel, no army how ever strong could conquer them, but when they went after other gods, then whatever nation was on the rise in power subjected them, conquered their cities, took their people as slaves, etc. They had no protection.

A lot of things that are attributed as "Acts of God" aren't from God at all, but the result of mankinds actions and misuse of the gifts God has given.

However, there are times when God does act --
When the earth opens and swallows the three ring leaders in rebellion in Moses time, I don't think it was chance, or satan. In fact if you read the story in PP the people said it was satan's power, but it was made very plain that it was NOT satan.

Quote:
QUOTES

"The signal manifestation of God's power had removed all uncertainty. {PP 401.2}

...the people, who the day after the destruction of Korah and his company came to Moses and Aaron, saying, "Ye have killed the people of the Lord." Notwithstanding they had had the most convincing evidence of God's displeasure at their course, in the destruction of the men who had deceived them, they dared to attribute His judgments to Satan, declaring that through the power of the evil one, Moses and Aaron had caused the death of good and holy men. It was this act that sealed their doom. They had committed the sin against the Holy Spirit, a sin by which man's heart is effectually hardened against the influence of divine grace. {PP 404.4}

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: dedication] #128254
10/20/10 03:57 AM
10/20/10 03:57 AM
Tom  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
However, there are times when God does act --
When the earth opens and swallows the three ring leaders in rebellion in Moses time, I don't think it was chance, or satan. In fact if you read the story in PP the people said it was satan's power, but it was made very plain that it was NOT satan.


Sure God acts. But how does He act? Just like Satan? What's the difference?

There doesn't appear to be any difference whatsoever. The only difference would be the motives. And that begs the question if we're simply talking about the ends justifying the means. Or is there some difference between how God and Satan act? (i.e., a difference in their behavior).

Regarding the earth swallowing up the rebels, why couldn't this have been an earthquake? What would the choice have to be either God or Satan? This gets back to the post I wrote previously, that I believe God's activities in keeping nature acting properly is vastly underestimated.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128269
10/20/10 06:07 PM
10/20/10 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tom
M: Let's look at Elijah and the bands of fifty. How did their sins cause fire to come down from above and burn them alive?

T: Let's consider Jesus Christ. When He was urged to destroy His enemies with fire, how did He respond? Jesus Christ was the revelation of the Father, not Elijah. Let's start in the right place! Let's also remember that all that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Father. We don't need to go to Elijah to learn what God is like.

Jesus rebuked John's spirit. He did not speak against the act of punishment. It was Jesus who sent the fire that burned alive the bands of fifty in response to Elijah's prayer.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128270
10/20/10 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: kland
M: Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment.

K: So, would you say that God works together with Satan to cause destruction towards those He deems necessary? Kind of like a partnership?

No.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128275
10/20/10 08:15 PM
10/20/10 08:15 PM
Tom  Offline
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Quote:
T: Let's consider Jesus Christ. When He was urged to destroy His enemies with fire, how did He respond? Jesus Christ was the revelation of the Father, not Elijah. Let's start in the right place! Let's also remember that all that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Father. We don't need to go to Elijah to learn what God is like.

M:Jesus rebuked John's spirit. He did not speak against the act of punishment.


No, this isn't what happened. Jesus spoke against the act, and against the spirit, because of the act. Jesus explained that He did not come to destroy but to save, and this is where John's error lied, and yours as well, IMO. That is, you view God (and Jesus) as Beings who destroy and cause death. Based on the amount of time you spend discussing these attributes in relation to other attributes of God (and Jesus), you appear to believe these are the most important things God (and Jesus) do(es).

We disagree in that I believe that destruction and Satan are things which pertain to the realm of sin/Satan, not God/Jesus. I view God and Jesus as doing good things, not things which are the fruit of sin.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128277
10/21/10 12:13 AM
10/21/10 12:13 AM
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back

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128278
10/21/10 12:25 AM
10/21/10 12:25 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
Luke 21:11 "And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.

If these things will serve as signs of Christ's coming, how will this prediction be fulfilled if not by an increase in the frequency and/or intensity of the phenomena mentioned here? Or hasn't yet arrived the time for this prediction to be fulfilled?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128280
10/21/10 01:27 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Luke 21:32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Matt 24:6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Matt 24:9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

There are signs that are the beginning of the birth pains, and there are signs that identify the compleated birth. Earthquakes clearly belong to the first group.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128285
10/21/10 01:42 PM
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Rosangela  Offline OP
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Ok, but birth pains increase gradually in frequency and intensity until the child is born. Do you think the birth pains have started yet or not?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128296
10/21/10 06:34 PM
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". . . there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven." Perhaps it is when these things, whatever it means, happen in addition to earthquakes, faminies, and pestilences then we can start thinking Jesus' second advent is drawing nigh.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128309
10/21/10 11:19 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Notice Luke 21:32, the birth pains have been around since the time of the apostles.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128321
10/22/10 08:17 PM
10/22/10 08:17 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Thomas, I don't believe the meaning of Luke 21:32 is that which you are attributing to it, otherwise the following words of Christ would make no sense at all:

"Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near——at the doors!" (Matt. 24:32, 33).

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128322
10/22/10 09:22 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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So what part of famines, earthquakes, wars, rumors of wars, is new to our generation and was unheard of with the apostles?

Even if earthquakes are increasing, statistics say famines and wars decreasing. What conclusion could be drawn from one of the signs increasing in intencity if all other signs are decreasing in intencity?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128327
10/22/10 10:32 PM
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". . . there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven." What is this referring to?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128342
10/23/10 10:34 PM
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Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
Even if earthquakes are increasing, statistics say famines and wars decreasing. What conclusion could be drawn from one of the signs increasing in intencity if all other signs are decreasing in intencity?

I'm not sure about that. There is a disagreement between the data of the Human Security Report Project (HSRP) and those of the International Rescue Committee (IRC).

http://congosiasa.blogspot.com/2010/01/how-many-people-really-died-in-congo.html

Not to mention the number of deaths in the Iraq war and Afghan War which had been concealed.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128343
10/24/10 12:58 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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The number of wars is different from the size of any single war.
For instance, a brutal war in Congo is still less than brutal wars in both Congo and Sri Lanka.

And you did not comment on famines.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128344
10/24/10 03:23 PM
10/24/10 03:23 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
The number of wars is different from the size of any single war.

Statistics are relative. If wars are decreasing in number but not in intensity (number of deaths), or vice-versa, there is no decrease at all.

The same is true about famines. Take a look at the initial words of the 2010 Global Hunger Index forward:

"Global food security is currently under stress. Although the world’s leaders, through the frst Millennium Development Goal, adopted a goal of halving the proportion of hungry people between 1990 and 2015, we are nowhere near meeting that target. The percentage of under-nourished people fell from 20 percent in 1990–92 to 16 percent in 2004–06. In recent years, however, the number of hungry people has actually been increasing."

http://www.ifpri.org/publication/2010-global-hunger-index

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128345
10/24/10 10:04 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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So inconclusive results for both wars and famines. What does that mean towards the thesis that both should experience sharp increases in order to meet prophetic expectation as would the increased earthquakes in the thread title.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128352
10/25/10 02:44 PM
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Mountain Man  Offline
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If earthquakes are increasing what difference does it make so far as prophecies are concerned?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128389
10/26/10 05:27 PM
10/26/10 05:27 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Another interesting piece of information:

Notable historic tsunamis:

Before 1000 AD........5
1000–1700.............8
1700s.................5
1800s.................7
1900–1950.............7
1950–2000............11
2000s.................7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_tsunamis

In just ten years we've had 8 tsunamis, including that one of yesterday in Indonesia. And the 2004 tsunami of Sumatra was perhaps the most destructive tsunami in history.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128396
10/26/10 10:32 PM
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Mountain Man  Offline
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What difference does it make, so far as the prophecies are concerned, whether or not natural disasters are increasing or decreasing? Will not pastors and politicians, when the time is right, eventually agree enforcing Sunday laws is necessary to appease the wrath of God?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128406
10/27/10 12:22 AM
10/27/10 12:22 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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These signs are, themselves, a prophecy. What we are discussing is, can we see in these phenomena the beginning of the fulfillment of the prophecy? Like birth pains, which gradually increase in frequency and intensity until the child is born?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128412
10/27/10 11:37 AM
10/27/10 11:37 AM
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I've been thinking that if we need to closely inspect a graph of only thirty years to determine if there is an increase of earthquakes, are we missing something? And this isn't to say I believe there is an obvious increase of earthquakes, just saying that using statistics to determine signs, is something wrong there?

By the way, if a tsunami hits an unpopulated island and no one is aware of it, does it count? As in, before 1000 AD, how does one know these things happen?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128413
10/27/10 11:39 AM
10/27/10 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Will not pastors and politicians, when the time is right, eventually agree enforcing Sunday laws is necessary to appease the wrath of God?
And would they have the same view of God as you do excepting for which day is the Sabbath?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128414
10/27/10 12:18 PM
10/27/10 12:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
I've been thinking that if we need to closely inspect a graph of only thirty years to determine if there is an increase of earthquakes, are we missing something? And this isn't to say I believe there is an obvious increase of earthquakes, just saying that using statistics to determine signs, is something wrong there?

I have no doubt that in my short 50-year life I have seen an increase in these natural phenomena, and many people have the same conviction. This, however, has been denied by scientists, although not by the data, as far as I can see.

Quote:
By the way, if a tsunami hits an unpopulated island and no one is aware of it, does it count? As in, before 1000 AD, how does one know these things happen?

Take just the last 300 years and you will see an obvious increase. Tsunami data are more objective than earthquake data. Since ancient times, most coastline areas have been densely populated, both because of their rich fauna and flora and because of commercial routes. The obvious increase in the number of tsunamis didn't occur because of better monitoring nor because regions previously unpopulated are now populated.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128429
10/27/10 04:37 PM
10/27/10 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Will not pastors and politicians, when the time is right, eventually agree enforcing Sunday laws is necessary to appease the wrath of God?
And would they have the same view of God as you do excepting for which day is the Sabbath?

What are you implying? Here's what Ellen wrote about it:

Quote:
I was pointed to Adam and Eve in Eden. They partook of the forbidden tree, and were driven from the garden, and then the flaming sword was placed around the tree of life, lest they should partake of its fruit and be immortal sinners. The tree of life was to perpetuate immortality. I heard an angel ask, "Who of the family of Adam have passed the flaming sword, and have partaken of the tree of life?" I heard another angel answer: "Not one of Adam's family have passed that flaming sword and partaken of that tree; therefore there is not an immortal sinner. The soul that sinneth, it shall die an everlasting death, a death that will last forever, from which there will be no hope of a resurrection; and then the wrath of God will be appeased. {CET 108.2}

Protestantism shall give the hand of fellowship to the Roman power. Then there will be a law against the Sabbath of God's creation, and then it is that God will do His "strange work" in the earth.--7BC 910 (1886). {LDE 130.1}

Satan puts his interpretation upon events, and they [leading men] think, as he would have them, that the calamities which fill the land are a result of Sunday-breaking. Thinking to appease the wrath of God, these influential men make laws enforcing Sunday observance. They think that by exalting this false rest-day higher, and still higher, compelling obedience to the Sunday law, the spurious sabbath, they are doing God service. Those who honor God by observing the true Sabbath are looked upon as disloyal to God, when it is really those who thus regard them who are themselves disloyal, because they are trampling under foot the Sabbath originated in Eden. {Mar 176.4}

I saw that the slave-master would have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and all the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been; while the master has to suffer the seven last plagues, and then come up in the second resurrection, and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the wrath of God will be appeased. {1SG 193.1}

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128433
10/27/10 05:07 PM
10/27/10 05:07 PM
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There are a lot more people living in dangerous situations than in the past. If we consider recorded history, there are events that are likely not to have been recorded because of a limited impact.

For example, consider the Haiti earthquake. According to Wiki, this is one of the 10 deadliest natural disasters recorded. If this earthquake had happened somewhere else besides Haiti, like in San Francisco, the damage would have been far less, like the 1989 earthquake. The SF and Haiti earthquakes were pretty much the same strength, but one resulted in one of the 10 worst natural disasters and the other wouldn't make a list of the top 1000, just because of where they occurred.

Many of the tsunamis mentioned in the 2000's were small tsunamis. It's hard to imagine that these would have been recorded in earlier centuries, which doesn't mean they weren't happening.

From a statistical standpoint, to make any conclusions from the data that Wiki has seems not worth much. This isn't to make a statement one way or the other in terms of whether or not earthquakes or tsunamis are increasing in frequency; just that to make some sort of conclusion from the Wiki data seems unwarranted.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128439
10/27/10 06:09 PM
10/27/10 06:09 PM
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MM, what is the wrath of God?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128441
10/27/10 06:20 PM
10/27/10 06:20 PM
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What Tom said.

Originally Posted By: Rosangela

I have no doubt that in my short 50-year life I have seen an increase in these natural phenomena
What if you had said, I have no doubt that in my long 50-year life...?
If you had used "long", it might make more sense, but you say, "short" indicating not long enough? Such as, The small sample size conclusively indicates such-and-such, is not usually used in scientific papers. Put another way other than what Tom elaborated, do you think those in Jesus' day would know about any tsunamis happening in India regardless of what the damage was?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128444
10/27/10 10:36 PM
10/27/10 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: kland
MM, what is the wrath of God?

In addition to the passages posted above, Ellen also wrote:

Quote:
The law of God is made void. We see and hear of confusion and perplexity, want and famine, earthquakes and floods; terrible outrages will be committed by men; passion, not reason, bears sway. The wrath of God is upon the inhabitants of the world, who are fast becoming as corrupt as were the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. Already fire and flood are destroying thousands of lives and the property that has been selfishly accumulated by the oppression of the poor. The Lord is soon to cut short His work and put an end to sin. Oh, that the scenes which have come before me of the iniquities practiced in these last days, might make a deep impression on the minds of God's professing people. As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of man shall be revealed. The Lord is removing His restrictions from the earth, and soon there will be death and destruction, increasing crime, and cruel, evil working against the rich who have exalted themselves against the poor. Those who are without God's protection will find no safety in any place or position. Human agents are being trained and are using their inventive power to put in operation the most powerful machinery to wound and to kill. {8T 49.3}

Every act of resistance makes it harder to yield. Being the leaders of the people, the priests and rulers felt it incumbent on them to defend the course they had taken. They must prove that they had been in the right. Having committed themselves in opposition to Christ, every act of resistance became an additional incentive to persist in the same path. The events of their past career of opposition are as precious treasures to be jealously guarded. And the hatred and malignity that inspired those acts are concentrated against the apostles. {TM 74.1}

The spirit of God revealed its presence unto those who, irrespective of the fear or favor of men, declared the truth which had been committed to them. Under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit's power, the Jews saw their guilt in refusing the evidence that God had sent; but they would not yield their wicked resistance. Their obstinacy became more and more determined, and worked the ruin of their souls. It was not that they could not yield, for they could, yet would not. It was not alone that they had been guilty, and deserving of wrath, but that they armed themselves with the attributes of Satan, and determinedly continued to be opposed to God. Every day, in their refusal to repent, they took up their rebellion afresh. They were preparing to reap that which they had sown. The wrath of God is not declared against men merely because of the sins which they have committed, but for choosing to continue in a state of resistance, and, although they have light and knowledge, repeating their sins of the past. If they would submit, they would be pardoned; but they are determined not to yield. They defy God by their obstinacy. These souls have given themselves to Satan, and he controls them according to his will. {TM 74.2}

How was it with the rebellious inhabitants of the antediluvian world? After rejecting the message of Noah, they plunged into sin with greater abandon than ever before, and doubled the enormity of their corrupting practices. Those who refuse to reform by accepting Christ find nothing reformative in sin; their minds are set to carry their spirit of revolt, and they are not, and never will be, forced to submission. The judgment which God brought upon the antediluvian world declared it incurable. The destruction of Sodom proclaimed the inhabitants of the most beautiful country in the world incorrigible in sin. The fire and brimstone from heaven consumed everything except Lot, his wife, and two daughters. The wife, looking back in disregard of God's command, became a pillar of salt. {TM 75.1}

How God bore with the Jewish nation while they were murmuring and rebellious, breaking the Sabbath and every other precept of the law! He repeatedly declared them worse than the heathen. Each generation surpassed the preceding in guilt. The Lord permitted them to go into captivity, but after their deliverance His requirements were forgotten. Everything that He committed to that people to be kept sacred was perverted or displaced by the inventions of rebellious men. Christ said to them in His day, "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?" And these were the men who set themselves up as judges and censors over those whom the Holy Spirit was moving to declare the word of God to the people. (See John 7:9-23, 27, 28; Luke 11:37-52.) {TM 75.2}

In infinite mercy a last warning message has been sent to the world, announcing that Christ is at the door and calling attention to God’s broken law. But as the antediluvians rejected with scorn the warning of Noah, so will the pleasure lovers of today reject the message of God’s faithful servants. The world pursues its unvarying round, absorbed as ever in its business and its pleasures, while the wrath of God is about to be visited on the transgressors of His law. {BLJ 197.4}

The triumph of the wicked is short. The pleasures of sin are ever purchased at a tremendous cost; for the wrath of God is continually hanging over the sinner, and in the end, he will learn indeed that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Every corrupt passion, every wrong feeling, or sinful act, not only dishonors God, but brings guilt and misery upon ourselves. Only in the strength of God can we succeed in subduing the enemies of our souls. While the foes of Christ are continually at work as Satan's agents to entice us into sin, we must firmly resist their advances, looking to God for counsel and assistance. Every sinful desire must be repressed, every wrong trait overcome, or they will prove our ruin. {ST, January 13, 1881 par. 10}

God bears long with the perversity and stubbornness of men. By warnings and reproofs he shows them their true condition. Again and again he calls them to repentance. Though the multitudes wax bold in sin, trampling upon his mercy and defying his justice, still he pours his blessings upon them. Oh, how infinitely beyond human comprehension are the Lord's mercy and forbearance toward the children of men! Yet there is a limit, beyond which men may not go on in sin. When the fullness of iniquity is reached,--as with the Amorites, and the children of Israel who fell in the wilderness,--then the wrath of God is visited upon the transgressors of his law. {ST, December 15, 1881 par. 11}

There are many who teach that man may violate God's law with impunity. These men seek to conceal the hideous character of sin, by clothing it with garments of righteousness. They may observe all the forms of religion, but their hearts are at enmity with God. They look upon his law as a yoke of bondage, because it forbids them to indulge their sinful desires. "Thou shalt not," placed at every avenue of sin, is the restriction of the just and holy One. Those who, like Hophni and Phinehas, disregard the commandments of God, and lead others to transgress, are Satan's agents to destroy souls. They say to the sinner, "It shall be well with thee," when God says, "I will punish the transgressor with my wrath, I will take him away in my hot displeasure." {ST, December 15, 1881 par. 12}

God may bear long with the sins of men, but in his own time he will vindicate his authority. Although the wicked may say, "My way is hid from the Lord," yet when his interposition is needed, he will show that he beholds all the works of the children of men. In the days of Noah, the wickedness of man became so great that it was necessary for God to assert his authority and punish the transgressors of his law. A crisis had come, and the Lord declared the limits of his forbearance toward that guilty race. He sent his faithful servant with a message of warning, giving them one hundred and twenty years in which to turn from their sins. They rejected and despised God's love, and when the measure of their iniquity was full; when the boundaries of divine mercy were passed, the Lord swept that wicked race from the earth by the waters of the flood. {ST, December 15, 1881 par. 13}

The wrath of God involves the "act of punishment", His "strange act". For example, sinners were burned alive.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128449
10/28/10 12:29 AM
10/28/10 12:29 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
There are a lot more people living in dangerous situations than in the past. If we consider recorded history, there are events that are likely not to have been recorded because of a limited impact.

Sorry, Tom, but I disagree here. As I said, shorelines have always been densely populated regions, so the occurrence of a tsunami can hardly be missed. You can question the numbers referring to the first centuries but, as I said, take then the numbers from the 18th century onward - 300 years can give us a reasonable time range and in the 18th century news from an important event could already reach the whole world (although not so fastly as now).
I don't know what you consider as small tsunamis - those which cause few deaths, those which aren't very tall or those which don’t cause a great destruction? This is relative, you know. Some of them are very tall but kill few people (like the 1958 Lituya Bay), some of them kill few or no people but cause great destruction, and some of them are not so tall but kill many people.

Anyway, take for instance the years 1950 to 2000, in which the Wiki mentions 11 tsunamis. Obviously if the 11 mentioned were not the only ones, they were at least the bigger ones. The number of dead people ranged from zero to 7,000.

NOw, since you said most of the 2000's tsunamis were "small," let's consider only the bigger ones in this period:

2004: Indian Ocean tsunami - 300,000 people were killed; the initial surge was measured at a height of approximately 33 m (108 ft)

2006: South of Java tsunami - height varied from 2 meters at Cilacap to 6 meters at Cimerak beach, where it swept away and flattened buildings as far as 400 meters away from the coastline. More than 800 people were reported missing or dead.

2007: Solomon Islands tsunami. In the Solomon Islands the wave was up to 5 m (17 feet) tall, 39 people were killed, and the sweeping water travelled 300 meters inland in some places. On the island of Choiseul, a wall of water reported to be 9.1 m (30 feet) high swept almost 400 meters inland, destroying everything in its path. Officials estimate that the tsunami displaced more than 5000 residents all over the archipelago.

2009: Samoa tsunami - the waves measured 14 m (46 ft) at their highest on the Samoan coast; 189 people were killed, especially children.

2010: Indonesia tsunami, the day before yesterday – 272 dead, 412 missing.

Even reducing the tsunamis in the 2000’s from 8 to 5, if you compare 11 tsunamis in 50 years with 5 in 10 years, there is a substantial increase.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128450
10/28/10 12:38 AM
10/28/10 12:38 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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What if you had said, I have no doubt that in my long 50-year life...?
If you had used "long", it might make more sense, but you say, "short" indicating not long enough? Such as, The small sample size conclusively indicates such-and-such, is not usually used in scientific papers. Put another way other than what Tom elaborated, do you think those in Jesus' day would know about any tsunamis happening in India regardless of what the damage was?

I meant, 50 years is not very much in view of thousands of years of history, but it is a reasonably long time for one to observe a change in certain trends.
I think I answered your second question in my answer to Tom.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128457
10/28/10 01:41 AM
10/28/10 01:41 AM
Tom  Offline
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Quote:
Sorry, Tom, but I disagree here. As I said, shorelines have always been densely populated regions, so the occurrence of a tsunami can hardly be missed.


Not all shorelines are densely populated, even today, when there are billions more people on earth than there used to be. Also, for vast periods of times, tsunamis in places such as the Americas or Africa would have been "missed."

Quote:
I don't know what you consider as small tsunamis - those which cause few deaths, those which aren't very tall or those which don’t cause a great destruction?


Small is not very tall.

Quote:
Anyway, take for instance the years 1950 to 2000, in which the Wiki mentions 11 tsunamis. Obviously if the 11 mentioned were not the only ones, they were at least the bigger ones. The number of dead people ranged from zero to 7,000.

NOw, since you said most of the 2000's tsunamis were "small," let's consider only the bigger ones in this period:

2004: Indian Ocean tsunami - 300,000 people were killed; the initial surge was measured at a height of approximately 33 m (108 ft)

2006: South of Java tsunami - height varied from 2 meters at Cilacap to 6 meters at Cimerak beach, where it swept away and flattened buildings as far as 400 meters away from the coastline. More than 800 people were reported missing or dead.

2007: Solomon Islands tsunami. In the Solomon Islands the wave was up to 5 m (17 feet) tall, 39 people were killed, and the sweeping water travelled 300 meters inland in some places. On the island of Choiseul, a wall of water reported to be 9.1 m (30 feet) high swept almost 400 meters inland, destroying everything in its path. Officials estimate that the tsunami displaced more than 5000 residents all over the archipelago.

2009: Samoa tsunami - the waves measured 14 m (46 ft) at their highest on the Samoan coast; 189 people were killed, especially children.

2010: Indonesia tsunami, the day before yesterday – 272 dead, 412 missing.

Even reducing the tsunamis in the 2000’s from 8 to 5, if you compare 11 tsunamis in 50 years with 5 in 10 years, there is a substantial increase.


First of all, you'd have to assume that Wiki recorded all of the tsunamis from 1950 to 2000. Wiki didn't make this claim. They just recorded "historic" tsunamis. There could have been tsunamis that occurred that Wiki didn't mention.

Also, this way of analyzing data is inherently flawed. For example, look at the 6 year period from 1958 to 1964. Wiki mentions 5 tsunamis for that period. That's more frequent than 5 in 10 years. Someone living in 1964 could have reasoned like you are, "There's a substantial increase in tsunamis," but then there are only 5 more mentioned up to 2000. So should we conclude:

1.Tsunamis were increasing from 1958.
2.Then they stopped.
3.Now they're increasing again (but not as much as before).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128463
10/28/10 01:33 PM
10/28/10 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela

I meant, 50 years is not very much in view of thousands of years of history, but it is a reasonably long time for one to observe a change in certain trends.
Is it?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128465
10/28/10 01:45 PM
10/28/10 01:45 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
Not all shorelines are densely populated, even today, when there are billions more people on earth than there used to be. Also, for vast periods of times, tsunamis in places such as the Americas or Africa would have been "missed."

I don't believe there were any substantial change from the 18th century till now in the areas occupied, just in the number of people who inhabit them. Today more than half of the world population lives in shorelines.

Quote:
First of all, you'd have to assume that Wiki recorded all of the tsunamis from 1950 to 2000. Wiki didn't make this claim.

As I said, if there were others beside these, they were very small, right?

Quote:
Also, this way of analyzing data is inherently flawed. For example, look at the 6 year period from 1958 to 1964. Wiki mentions 5 tsunamis for that period. That's more frequent than 5 in 10 years.

Not in fact, because there were 8 from 2004 to 2010 (7 listed by Wiki and 1 which occurred this last week). This is 5 in 6 years against 8 in 6 years. But you might have a point. Let's see what happens in the next few years.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128466
10/28/10 01:53 PM
10/28/10 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Rosangela

I meant, 50 years is not very much in view of thousands of years of history, but it is a reasonably long time for one to observe a change in certain trends.
Is it?

Sure, certain trends such as how the names of our grandparents are reappearing among the newly born or how the Paris fashion changes with the seasons. Geology however is not one of those trends..


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21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128475
10/28/10 06:28 PM
10/28/10 06:28 PM
Tom  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
T:Not all shorelines are densely populated, even today, when there are billions more people on earth than there used to be. Also, for vast periods of times, tsunamis in places such as the Americas or Africa would have been "missed."

R:I don't believe there were any substantial change from the 18th century till now in the areas occupied, just in the number of people who inhabit them. Today more than half of the world population lives in shorelines.


The Wiki article went back for centuries.

Originally Posted By: Rosangela

First of all, you'd have to assume that Wiki recorded all of the tsunamis from 1950 to 2000. Wiki didn't make this claim.

As I said, if there were others beside these, they were very small, right?


Maybe, maybe not. They weren't "historical."

Quote:

Also, this way of analyzing data is inherently flawed. For example, look at the 6 year period from 1958 to 1964. Wiki mentions 5 tsunamis for that period. That's more frequent than 5 in 10 years.

Not in fact, because there were 8 from 2004 to 2010 (7 listed by Wiki and 1 which occurred this last week).


You said, "Even reducing the tsunamis in the 2000’s from 8 to 5" so I used the number 5.

Quote:
This is 5 in 6 years against 8 in 6 years. But you might have a point. Let's see what happens in the next few years.


Yes, I have a point, which is that this way of analyzing data is flawed. It was by chance that I happened to find a 6 year period that had 5 tsunamis (although it's actually likely there would have been some time period like that, given the events are random) but the methodology would have been just as flawed even without that example. If you're going to consider whether data like this is significant, a statistical analysis is necessary. A lot of times our intuition is simply wrong when it comes to spotting "trends" like this.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128483
10/28/10 07:06 PM
10/28/10 07:06 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
The Wiki article went back for centuries.

Ok, but what I had said was, consider just the last 300 years. And what I can see in these last 300 years is a gradual increase in tsunamis. The arguments may be presented that "the increase in the number of earthquakes is just because of better monitoring," and "maybe not all tsunamis were registered in the past," etc. However, and fortunately, people everywhere are beginning to get alarmed by these signs. If you take a single factor isolately, it may be inconclusive. But if you take several factors into consideration a general trend becomes evident - even if a rigorously scientifical study hasn't yet been undertaken.

"The present is a time of overwhelming interest to all living. Rulers and statesmen, men who occupy positions of trust and authority, thinking men and women of all classes, have their attention fixed upon the events taking place about us. They are watching the strained, restless relations that exist among the nations. They observe the intensity that is taking possession of every earthly element, and they recognize that something great and decisive is about to take place--that the world is on the verge of a stupendous crisis." {WM 134.4}

"The signs of the times give evidence that the judgments of heaven are being poured out, that the day of the Lord is at hand. The daily papers are full of indications of an intense conflict in the future. Bold robberies are of frequent occurrence. Strikes are common. Thefts and murders are committed on every hand. Men possessed by demons are taking the lives of men, women, and little children. All these things testify that the Lord's coming is near. The restraining Spirit of God is even now being withdrawn from the world. Hurricanes, storms, tempests, disasters by sea and by land, follow one another in quick succession. The signs thickening around us, telling of the near approach of the Son of God, are attributed to any other than the true cause." {Mar 175.2, 3}

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128487
10/28/10 09:17 PM
10/28/10 09:17 PM
Tom  Offline
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Rosangela, you wrote this:

Quote:
Take just the last 300 years and you will see an obvious increase. Tsunami data are more objective than earthquake data. Since ancient times, most coastline areas have been densely populated, both because of their rich fauna and flora and because of commercial routes. The obvious increase in the number of tsunamis didn't occur because of better monitoring nor because regions previously unpopulated are now populated.


I responded:

Quote:
From a statistical standpoint, to make any conclusions from the data that Wiki has seems not worth much. This isn't to make a statement one way or the other in terms of whether or not earthquakes or tsunamis are increasing in frequency; just that to make some sort of conclusion from the Wiki data seems unwarranted.


You then said:

Quote:
Even reducing the tsunamis in the 2000’s from 8 to 5, if you compare 11 tsunamis in 50 years with 5 in 10 years, there is a substantial increase.


And I pointed out that this was a flawed analysis, for the reasons I pointed out, and showed that in the 6 year period around 1958, there was "a substantial increase," using your methodology.

If you look at the period from 1854 to 1868, there were 5 recorded. That's a "substantial increase" from earlier in that century, or through the end of it. For both the 19th and 20th centuries there were more tsunamis around the middle of the century than earlier in the century. Using the methodology you're using, we could conclude that around the middle of the century, there should be a "substantial increase" in tsunamis.

You'll notice I'm not taking issue with there being more earthquakes or tsunamis:

Quote:
This isn't to make a statement one way or the other in terms of whether or not earthquakes or tsunamis are increasing in frequency; just that to make some sort of conclusion from the Wiki data seems unwarranted.


So there's no need to quote EGW in regards to the signs. I'm just taking issue with your approach:

Quote:
It is important that in defending the doctrines which we consider fundamental articles of faith we should never allow ourselves to employ arguments that are not wholly sound. These may avail to silence an opposer but they do not honor the truth. We should present sound arguments, that will not only silence our opponents, but will bear the closest and most searching scrutiny. Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 707,708


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128535
11/01/10 03:13 PM
11/01/10 03:13 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
What if you had said, I have no doubt that in my long 50-year life...?
If you had used "long", it might make more sense, but you say, "short" indicating not long enough? Such as, The small sample size conclusively indicates such-and-such, is not usually used in scientific papers. Put another way other than what Tom elaborated, do you think those in Jesus' day would know about any tsunamis happening in India regardless of what the damage was?

I meant, 50 years is not very much in view of thousands of years of history, but it is a reasonably long time for one to observe a change in certain trends.
I think I answered your second question in my answer to Tom.
I guess I was objecting to the emphases on "short". As has been brought out, if shortness is the emphasis then the shorter the better. A 3-year old could say, I have no doubt that in my short 3-year life there is a dramatic decrease in occurrences. That's why you can't go with charts and statistics when it's a very very small sample of the whole whether it's global warming or the number of earthquakes. Of course this doesn't help much with "seeing the signs", but again, I'm not sure that should be our emphasis. Do you suppose that when these signs come to light, that we won't need to compare charts and run statistics? What about the stars falling? If one was doing the same and said there are now clear up to 2 per hour, this is "a sign", does that do any comparison when the whole sky became ablaze?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128582
11/03/10 12:01 AM
11/03/10 12:01 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Kland,

As I see it, the fall of the stars was to be a single event which should occur at a definite time:

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

This, however, does not seem to be case with these other signs:

Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

These things have always happened, but I had always thought of them as signs in terms of a gradual increase. Do you think there will be a repentine and dramatic increase of these things?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128596
11/03/10 01:47 PM
11/03/10 01:47 PM
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kland  Offline
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From what I can understand, there may be a repeat of the stars falling. Do I have a good grasp of why I think that - no.

But that had nothing to do with the point I was making. You understand that? Replace "there are now up to" with "the stars are falling at".

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128612
11/03/10 05:53 PM
11/03/10 05:53 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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From what I can understand, the only thing noteworthy about that minor fall of stars over northeastern US almost 200 years ago was that it happened to come while a bunch of disillusioned people were wondering what to do after Christ failed to return at the specified date around 1844.

Falling stars of that kind are a regular event and have been calculated and observed since the first astronomer climbed a zikkurat in Uruk (or wherever this event happened first). To qualify for an endtime event of the kind described in Mat 24, in my view, it would have to be something extraordinary which was observed all around the world and which goes way beyond the annual events which are regularly reported in newspapers. And I am here stressing ALL AROUND THE WORLD. The endtime prophecies are not specifically or exclusively directed at or reporting on the north American continent.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128619
11/04/10 12:38 AM
11/04/10 12:38 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
From what I can understand, the only thing noteworthy about that minor fall of stars over northeastern US almost 200 years ago was that it happened to come while a bunch of disillusioned people were wondering what to do after Christ failed to return at the specified date around 1844.

Thomas,
The great shower of Leonid meteors seen in America was on Nov. 12–13, 1833.

Quote:
Falling stars of that kind are a regular event and have been calculated and observed since the first astronomer climbed a zikkurat in Uruk (or wherever this event happened first). To qualify for an endtime event of the kind described in Mat 24, in my view, it would have to be something extraordinary which was observed all around the world and which goes way beyond the annual events which are regularly reported in newspapers. And I am here stressing ALL AROUND THE WORLD. The endtime prophecies are not specifically or exclusively directed at or reporting on the north American continent.

A meteor “shower,” in ordinary usage, means any fall of meteors, regardless of numbers, encountered as the earth intercepts one of the numerous swarms of meteoric particles that travel in orbits around the sun. However, the 1833 shower was the most magnificent hitherto recorded, for no shower has equaled it since. Fisher in 1934 said it was “the most magnificent meteor shower on record” (W. J. Fisher, “The Ancient Leonids,” The Telescope, 1 [October, 1934], 83).])
"For nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze… [Careful scientific accounts indicate that] more than a billion shooting stars appeared over the United States and Canada alone" (Peter M. Millman, “The Falling of the Stars,” The Telescope, 7 [(May–June, 1940), 57.])
None of the other signs Christ mentioned can happen all around the world at the same time. Why do you want this to be the case with the falling of the stars?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128620
11/04/10 06:30 AM
11/04/10 06:30 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Earth passes through the Leonid cloud every year, with clockwork accuracy.
So the 1833 shower was the most impressive one between 1833-1934. What happened since? And what does Fisher mean by "hitherto recorded"? How far back does he draw his history?

So when the sun goes dark, it will be reignited within less than 12 hours (if any longer, this would be seen all around the world), and the moon will at this time be very close to the sun in the sky (otherwise this would give away for the half of earths population on the dark side what happened). And what about the comming of Jesus? Will this also only be visible in Washington and New York? Surely this would be the case if Hollywood wrote the script. But now when God is doing the scriptwriting?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128626
11/04/10 11:36 PM
11/04/10 11:36 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
Earth passes through the Leonid cloud every year, with clockwork accuracy.
So the 1833 shower was the most impressive one between 1833-1934. What happened since? And what does Fisher mean by "hitherto recorded"? How far back does he draw his history?

You can find a history of the Leonids meteor showers here:

http://leonid.arc.nasa.gov/history.html

Although the writer quoted by the article says that "240,000 [meteors] must have been visible during the nine hours they continued to fall," other astronomers said that "[Careful scientific accounts indicate that] more than a billion shooting stars appeared over the United States and Canada alone" (Peter M. Millman, “The Falling of the Stars,” The Telescope, 7 [May–June, 1940], p. 57).

These discrepancies happen because the meteors were too numerous to be counted.

"The Leonids shower of 1833 ... saw as many as a hundred thousand meteors an hour — equal to an average of 30 meteors a second, Gyuk [Geza Gyuk, an astronomer at the Adler Planetarium in Chicago] said."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091116-leonids-meteor-shower-best-2009.html

"The Earth passed through the cloud in 1833 [from comet Tempel-Tuttle] and the resulting storm of meteors convinced many observers that the world was coming to an end, as meteors fell at the rate of snowflakes in a winter storm – perhaps 200,000 per hour."
http://www.suite101.com/content/the-leonid-meteor-shower-has-yielded-spectacular-shows-a293348

Although NASA’s Leonid showers history page says that the 1966 display "probably rivaled the historic showers of 1799 and 1833,” this could even be true of the number of meteors per second, but not in regard to extension and duration. Its peak lasted just 20 minutes, while in the 1833 storm "after midnight ... [the meteors] rapidly increased in number and brilliancy till 4 o’clock. The display was then in the highest degree magnificent and imposing, and continued without diminution till the dawn of the day." http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1962JRASC..56..215S/0000220.000.html
So the 1833 storm's peak lasted at least 2 hours.

Also, the 1833 storm "pervaded nearly the whole of North America" (Denison Olmsted, Letters on Astronomy, Addressed to a Lady: in Which The Elements of the Science Are Familiarly Explained in Connexion With Its Literary History (1840 ed. ), pp. 348, 349).

"During the 4 hours which preceded dawn on Nov. 13, 1833, the skies were lit up by thousands of shooting stars every minute. Newspapers of that era reveal that almost no one was unaware of the shower. If they were not alerted by the cries of excited neighbors, they were usually awakened by flashes of light cast into normally dark bedrooms by the fireballs" (http://spacescience.spaceref.com/newhome/headlines/ast22jun99_2.htm). I'm not aware of any other meteor shower which was able to awake a whole country.

Besides, it did not just awake people physically, but also spiritually. "Indeed, the 1833 shower has been credited with contributing to the intense religious revivals that swept the United States in the 1830s, which permanently influenced the national character and spread new sects and denominations that are well established on the American scene today."
http://genealogytrails.com/ill/stars.htm

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128627
11/04/10 11:45 PM
11/04/10 11:45 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
So when the sun goes dark, it will be reignited within less than 12 hours (if any longer, this would be seen all around the world), and the moon will at this time be very close to the sun in the sky (otherwise this would give away for the half of earths population on the dark side what happened).

If these phenomena happen just before Christ's coming, they will be no signs, right? The purpose of the signs is to warn people of the need to prepare for Christ's coming. After people have been sealed or marked, there is no need for that.

Quote:
And what about the comming of Jesus? Will this also only be visible in Washington and New York? Surely this would be the case if Hollywood wrote the script. But now when God is doing the scriptwriting?

Well, the Bible says that every eye will see Him, although we cannot know how this will happen. It doesn't say the same thing about the signs, though. It mentions wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilences. Nobody expects this to occur on the whole earth at the same time.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128639
11/05/10 09:08 AM
11/05/10 09:08 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Interesting, the nasa webpage reports on up to 5 events including 1833 which include major Leonid meteor showers. The Spacescience quote mentions that the 1833 shower took up to 4 hours, thereby equalling the 1799 shower according to the Humboldt quote found on the nasa page. The 902 and 1630 reports are to short to say much, though I would expect the original accounts to reveal how intense and how long they were. Astronomy/Astrology is after all the first of the sciences which was developed.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128640
11/05/10 09:19 AM
11/05/10 09:19 AM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
So when the sun goes dark, it will be reignited within less than 12 hours (if any longer, this would be seen all around the world), and the moon will at this time be very close to the sun in the sky (otherwise this would give away for the half of earths population on the dark side what happened).

If these phenomena happen just before Christ's coming, they will be no signs, right? The purpose of the signs is to warn people of the need to prepare for Christ's coming. After people have been sealed or marked, there is no need for that.
May I here point out that the sun going dark together with the moon is described in the SAME sentence as the stars falling. If "stars" falling 177 years ago happen just before Christ's coming, ... I do not think you can separate these astronomical signs in this way.
Quote:

Quote:
And what about the comming of Jesus? Will this also only be visible in Washington and New York? Surely this would be the case if Hollywood wrote the script. But now when God is doing the scriptwriting?

Well, the Bible says that every eye will see Him, although we cannot know how this will happen. It doesn't say the same thing about the signs, though. It mentions wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilences. Nobody expects this to occur on the whole earth at the same time.
Rumors of the wars on terror has efficiently reached all but the most remote and obscure corners of the world. Earthquakes hit, if not every nation, still citizens of every nation in this day of mobility. Pestilence does not recognise any borders and is every day moving towards the day when there is no longer a difference between rich and poor countries when our cures turn worthless. Pig flue comes to mind.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128641
11/05/10 11:19 AM
11/05/10 11:19 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
Interesting, the nasa webpage reports on up to 5 events including 1833 which include major Leonid meteor showers. The Spacescience quote mentions that the 1833 shower took up to 4 hours, thereby equalling the 1799 shower according to the Humboldt quote found on the nasa page.

In fact, it lasted 9 hours. The reference to 4 hours may be to the most intense part of the shower.

"The meteors began to attract notice by their unusual frequency or brilliancy, from nine to twelve o’clock in the evening, were most striking in their appearance, from two to five, arrived at their maximum, in many places, about four o’clock, and continued till rendered invisible by the light of day." Denison Olmsted, “Observations on the Meteors of November 13th, 1833,” The American Journal of Science and Arts, 25 ([Jan.?] 1834), p. 363, 365, 366, 386, 393, 394.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128642
11/05/10 12:10 PM
11/05/10 12:10 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
R: If these phenomena happen just before Christ's coming, they will be no signs, right? The purpose of the signs is to warn people of the need to prepare for Christ's coming. After people have been sealed or marked, there is no need for that.
V: May I here point out that the sun going dark together with the moon is described in the SAME sentence as the stars falling. If "stars" falling 177 years ago happen just before Christ's coming, ... I do not think you can separate these astronomical signs in this way.

Yes, the three don't seem to be separated by a very long interval. What I'm point out is, if these are going to occur as signs of Christ's coming, then they can't occur just before Christ's coming.
What Christ says in Matt. 24 is:

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near——at the doors!"

Christ said these phenomena would occur "immediately after the tribulation of those days." If you interpret this tribulation as the final persecution of the church, then these things can't be signs, as I said, because "after" the tribulation, everybody will already have been marked or sealed. Besides, I doubt the persecution to the church will end before Christ's coming, so that there is an interval "after" it. But if you interpret this tribulation as the long centuries of persecution the church faced from after Christ's death until the end of the Dark Ages, then these phenomena had to occur immediately after it, and they constitute signs of Christ's coming.

Quote:
R: Well, the Bible says that every eye will see Him, although we cannot know how this will happen. It doesn't say the same thing about the signs, though. It mentions wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilences. Nobody expects this to occur on the whole earth at the same time.
V: Rumors of the wars on terror has efficiently reached all but the most remote and obscure corners of the world. Earthquakes hit, if not every nation, still citizens of every nation in this day of mobility. Pestilence does not recognise any borders and is every day moving towards the day when there is no longer a difference between rich and poor countries when our cures turn worthless. Pig flue comes to mind.

But the news about the dark day and the fall of the stars reached other countries, too. It doesn't mean it had to occur in every country. There was darkness on the occasion of Christ's death, and since Christ was dying for the whole world, one would expect this darkness to involve the whole world, but this, of course, did not happen; it was a local phenomenon.
Wars, earthquakes, and famines are local. Some pestilences may spread from country to country, but not all. In recent years, for instance, Brazil has had an outbreak of yellow fever and some dengue fever epidemics, but this was circumscribed just to our territory.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128807
11/12/10 12:01 AM
11/12/10 12:01 AM
Daryl  Offline

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Could their be a repeating of this just prior to the 2nd Coming?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Daryl] #128880
11/15/10 07:10 PM
11/15/10 07:10 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Many believe that this will happen, LaRondelle being one of these.

However, this doesn't seem correct to me, owing to the reason presented above. Jesus said:

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken"

Only Christ's coming will put an end to the final persecution of the Church. So how could these signs occur "after" the tribulation? Therefore, the tribulation mentioned by Christ must be the persecution of the Church during the Dark Ages.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128882
11/15/10 07:19 PM
11/15/10 07:19 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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No definition of the Dark Ages I am aware of have them ending around 1833. Usually the European Dark Ages are considered to have ended by the mid to late 14th century at the commencement of the Renaissance.
Wikipedia did provide a Dark Ages with a reasonable fit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_ages_of_Cambodia
Though why the end of Cambodias Dark Ages would be commemorated in prophecy remains to be made clear.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128885
11/15/10 08:26 PM
11/15/10 08:26 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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The Dark Ages seems to have been the most intense period of religious persecution.
I'm referring to the persecution described in Revelation, during which the church is referred to as being "in the wilderness:"

Rev. 12
13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

This is the same persecution carried out by the leopardlike beast:

Rev. 13
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months;
6 it opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.

This persecution is also described in Daniel, as being carried out by the little horn:

Dan. 7
25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.

The persecution begun just after Christ's ascension, and which would extend a little beyond the 1260 days, would have its climax during this period.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128886
11/15/10 08:39 PM
11/15/10 08:39 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
The Dark Ages seems to have been the most intense period of religious persecution.
I'm referring to the persecution described in Revelation, during which the church is referred to as being "in the wilderness:"

Rev. 12
13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.
Which is followed by verses 15 and 16, which are in standard SDA apocalyptology identified with the Mayflower reaching America in 1620 with its cargo of English persecuted christians..

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
Quote:

This is the same persecution carried out by the leopardlike beast:

Rev. 13
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months;
6 it opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.

This persecution is also described in Daniel, as being carried out by the little horn:

Dan. 7
25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.

The persecution begun just after Christ's ascension, and which would extend a little beyond the 1260 days, would have its climax during this period.





Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128889
11/15/10 08:58 PM
11/15/10 08:58 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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Quote:
Which is followed by verses 15 and 16, which are in standard SDA apocalyptology identified with the Mayflower reaching America in 1620 with its cargo of English persecuted christians..

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

Sure, but this doesn't mean that vv. 15, 16 occur after v. 14. Verses 15, 16 are exapanding on something that would occur during the wilderness phase of the Church. Since the water is "peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues" (Rev 17:15), the earth is a sparsely-inhabited place (a wilderness).

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128892
11/15/10 09:27 PM
11/15/10 09:27 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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So the woman in the wilderness was already hiding in America when the Dragon sent waters to drown her?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128926
11/16/10 11:21 PM
11/16/10 11:21 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
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No, when the dragon sent waters to drown her (the church was being persecuted in densely populated regions), the earth (an sparsely populated region) helped her.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128935
11/17/10 06:22 AM
11/17/10 06:22 AM
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The woman fled into the wilderness, sparsely populated region.
The dragon spewed water after the woman, trying to make population centres of the area of wilderness where the woman hid?
The earth opened up and swallowed the water, no matter how many people the dragon sent after the woman, the wilderness remained sparsely populated.

In which case the wilderness cannot be the US east coast which hasn't been sparsely populated for the last 150 years by anyone's standard..


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128940
11/17/10 01:45 PM
11/17/10 01:45 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
The church-in-the-wilderness period is the period in which, owing to persecution, the church had to flee from densely populated areas to small villages, to the mountains, etc. The water spewed after the woman seems to be the many persecuting groups sent to exterminate even the small villages. It was then that many Christians found refuge in a recently-discovered and sparsely-populated area.
Of course this region wouldn't remain for ever sparsely populated. Besides, we believe the 1260 years of the church in the wilderness ended in 1798.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #128941
11/17/10 01:48 PM
11/17/10 01:48 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
But it is the persecuting waters that end up in the earth, not the persecuted woman. smile


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128977
11/17/10 10:01 PM
11/17/10 10:01 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
The scenario my imagination generates is that, after the woman has passed, the earth opens up and swallows up the flood which comes after her.
Anyway, all this language is figurative. The woman being "carried away by the flood" is a symbol of destruction. The fact that the earth swallowed up the flood would mean that it made ineffectual the devices of destruction. The intentions of the dragon were frustrated.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #129098
11/22/10 10:52 PM
11/22/10 10:52 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Not too much further down the road the opposite will be true when the Lamblike Beast will speak like a dragon and become the persecutor.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Rosangela] #192134
03/25/20 03:53 PM
03/25/20 03:53 PM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not?
We are now in 2020.

Reported:
"Since the coronavirus began to spread at the end of last year, (2019) a wave of earthquakes is ranging around the world, overlooked as the fear of infection leads people to ignore the shaking under their feet."

RUSSIA
1) A 7.5 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Russia near the Kuril islands that lay off the coast of Japan on Tuesday March 24, setting off a tsunami warning, but these waves weren't high enough to cause much damage.

UTAH
2) A 5.7 earthquake in Utah, March 18, Salt Lake City suffered mainly from falling bricks and cracked mortar, no severe damage. Though falling bricks can be dangerous and requires renovation. Electrical power was cut to tens of thousands even suspending work at Utah's public health lab

CROATIA
3) A 5.4-magnitude earthquake hit Croatia?s capital city, Zagreb, on Sunday March 22, shortly after 6 a.m. local time. The quake injured at least 26 people and caused at least one death. It caused considerable damage to buildings pushing people out into the streets at exactly the time they were supposed to stay indoors to fight the spread of the coronavirus. Even forcing a hospital to evacuate.
Pictures of hospital beds with patients lined up outside that were taken in Croatia, have been posted by some people as covid patients in Italy!


NEW ZEALAND
4) A 4.4 magnitude earthquake has hit central New Zealand just a few hours ago (March 25) , just after a State of Emergency alert for lock down due to Covid-19 was transmitted across the country. Feeling the earth shake is rather unnerving after such news, but the quake was not overly damaging.

CALIFORNIA
5)A 5.8 magnitude earthquake struck off the coast of northern California, March 9,

SMALLER QUAKES
6) North America is being shaken by smaller quakes
A whole series of earthquakes just above 4 magnitude have been shaking the west coast. Not powerful or close enough to populated cities to do serious damage -- however they are achieving a higher magnitude than the usual tremors.

A series of seven small tremors shook Oklahoma over the course of 24-hours this last week.

Montreal suffered a 3.3 shaking Friday morning. The seventh in Quebec since the beginning of the year but the first near a city.

INDONESIA
7) A powerful 6.4-magnitude earthquake has struck south of Bali, Indonesia. They were fortunate this time as there wasn't much damage, but Indonesia suffers frequent seismic and volcanic activity due to its position on the Pacific 'Ring of Fire', where tectonic plates collide. In 2018, a 7.5-magnitude quake and a subsequent tsunami in Palu on Sulawesi island left more than 4,300 people dead or missing.
A 9.1 magnitude earthquake on December 26 in 2004 struck Aceh province, causing a tsunami that claimed the lives of more than 170,000 people in Indonesia alone.

8) IRAN
November 2019 a shallow, 5.9-magnitude earthquake struck north-western Iran early on Friday, killing five people and injuring 120.
December 2019 a 5.1 magnitude earthquake hit Iran at 5 AM local time
Two weeks later two more quakes hit Iran, the first quake, measuring 4.9 magnitude, struck just before 9.00 a.m. local time in Bushehr province. Around 30 minutes later a second quake, this time measuring 4.5 magnitude, struck the same province.
The quake epicenters were within 20 kilometers of the city of Borazjan -- a short distance from the country's Bushehr nuclear power plant.

The country of Iran has suffered a number of major disasters in recent decades, including at the ancient city of Bam, which was decimated by a catastrophic earthquake in 2003 that killed at least 31,000 people.

In 1990, a 7.4-magnitude quake in northern Iran killed 40,000 people, injured 300,000 and left half a million homeless, reducing dozens of towns and nearly 2,000 villages to rubble.

Iran has experienced at least two other significant quakes in recent years ? one in 2005 that killed more than 600 people and another in 2012 that left some 300 dead.

TURKEY
9) March 19 An earthquake with a magnitude of 5.0 struck eastern Elazig province of Turkey on Thursday.
A magnitude-6.8 quake had jolted Elazig province Jan. 24, killing 41 people and injuring 1,500.
More than 1,350 prefabricated houses have been built in a "container city" for quake victims in Elazig province.
Istanbul, which was shaken by a 5.8 magnitude earthquake last September has its citizens frightened. Back in 1999 an earthquake killed more than 17,000 people in the greater region.

This is just a sample!

The whole earth is groaning.

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

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