Anytime God punishes sinners it is a "strange act".

--what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. {GC 36.2}

Like Israel of old the wicked destroy themselves; they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His glory is to them a consuming fire. {GC 37.1}

M: God commanded King Saul to utterly kill and destroy everyone and everything pertaining to the Amalekites. He disobeyed and incurred the wrath of God. Then Samuel, in accordance with the commandment of God "hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal." See 1 Samuel 15. This is one of many stories portraying God commanding His chosen people to kill His enemies.

T: Regarding your comment about King Saul, please remember the Father/hunter analogy. This is a different issue.

M:Are you justifying God commanding Saul and Samuel killing the Amalekites? If so, at least you are admitting God commanded it.

M: However, you seem to be saying, No, I don't agree with the idea that God is too kind, loving, and merciful to consume sinners with fire. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

T:What I'm saying is that I agree with the principles outlined in GC 36 and 37. I don't think these principles contradict the points she was making in the passage you were asking me about.

M:You are being non-responsive. Please do not I assume I know what you believe. Surely you agree with parts of what I wrote above.

T: I like the way the principles are laid out in GC 36, 37. An issue I see with the way you word things is that you appear to believe that God is responsible for the death and destruction that occurs. This is actually what I've been taking issue with you all along.

For example, you have written something along the lines that God uses a "withdraw and permit" strategy as a means of causing death and destruction, but that He uses other methods as well. So you conceive death and destruction as originating from God, and Satan is like a puppet, as are the other tools which God uses to cause the destruction/death that He wants to have happen.

I think this is the crux of our disagreement. I don't perceive death and destruction as proceeding from God at all, but rather from sin/Satan. God has to put limitations on the destruction and death that sin/Satan causes, or all humans would be destroyed, and there couldn't be a Great Controversy (at least, not involving humans).

M:Please point to what I wrote (reposted below) and explain how it disagrees with what you’re saying.

1. I hear you saying God withdraws His protection and permits sinners to experience the consequences of sinning, that is, the consequences that would have happened had God not acted to prevent it.

2. In reality you are also saying the consequences of sinning include evil angels causing the punishment God establishes and enforces, that is, God decides to what depth and degree of punishment evil angels can mete out and then God also works to ensure they do not exceed those limits.

M:Anytime God punishes sinners it is a "strange act".

k:Seems to suggest to me, you think God "punishing" and what it means in your definition, is out of His character.

Tom, I don't think there is a natural correlation between God withdrawing His protection and the calamities that befall sinners. For example, the fire that flashed forth and burned alive Nadab and Abihu. And the fire that flashed forth and burned alive the 250 people. And the fire that flashed forth and burned alive the two bands of fifty. I don't know how you explain these events.

Also, if final events leading up to the return of Jesus resemble the fall of Jews and Jerusalem in 70 AD it means evil angels will control the inflamed passions of evil people. However, it begs the question - Who will cause the death and destruction portrayed by the seven last plagues? Clearly nothing of the sort happened in 70 AD.

M: Tom, I don't think there is a natural correlation between God withdrawing His protection and the calamities that befall sinners. For example, the fire that flashed forth and burned alive Nadab and Abihu. And the fire that flashed forth and burned alive the 250 people. And the fire that flashed forth and burned alive the two bands of fifty. I don't know how you explain these events.

T: The exact explanation of the events isn't the important thing, but understanding the principles involved. We know that Satan is the author of sin and all its results. That includes death and destruction. This means that before Satan invented sin, there was no death and destruction. Therefore death and destruction are part and parcel to Satan's kingdom, not God's. Before Satan, these things did not exist, and were not a part of God's government. Your idea would have God using the principles of Satan's government, causing death and destruction, in order to win the Great Controversy. I don't believe God does this. Instead, I believe God uses the principles of His own government, principles which existed from eternity.