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Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Gregory] #160867
01/27/14 04:37 AM
01/27/14 04:37 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Yes, Gregory. The full article is good. Just as the sauna is far hotter than the person sitting in it for an extended period of time, so also is the oven far hotter than the water-containing lump of dough placed in it. Until ALL of that water is gone, the dough's temperature is limited to about 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Most bread does not come out fully dehydrated, and reaches only about 180 - 200 degrees in the oven, core temperature.

Basically, kland was conflating oven temperature with bread core temperature. The sauna example helps to illustrate the distinction between a core temperature and a surrounding temperature of the environment.

Yeast can survive in the bread at those temperatures. The alcohol, however, must all be dissipated before the dough can be adequately baked.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Green Cochoa] #161006
01/29/14 03:12 PM
01/29/14 03:12 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
What temperatures can yeast survive to?

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: kland] #161033
01/30/14 02:25 AM
01/30/14 02:25 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
What temperatures can yeast survive to?

If Mrs. White is to be believed, kland, it appears most of the yeast does die during baking but enough may well survive to cause us problems. I'm not a better expert than she is. I don't think modern scientists are either. Do you?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Green Cochoa] #161038
01/30/14 01:53 PM
01/30/14 01:53 PM
K
kland  Offline
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I cannot believe that someone is so wrong on so many things. I believe you also make things up and ignore facts even when pointed out you are incorrect. It has already been pointed out that you are misstating Ellen White regarding this. You just as well say that Mrs. White says gremlins are going to descend from the sky and are we better experts than she is to disagree with her, because she says so.

Do you think modern scientists, (or even past scientists for that matter), cannot determine if yeast is dead or alive? Really?

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: kland] #161049
01/30/14 04:38 PM
01/30/14 04:38 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Bread should be light and sweet. Not the least taint of sourness should be tolerated. The loaves should be small and so thoroughly baked that, so far as possible, the yeast germs shall be destroyed. When hot or new, raised bread of any kind is difficult of digestion. It should never appear on the table. This rule does not, however, apply to unleavened bread. Fresh rolls made of wheaten meal without yeast or leaven, and baked in a well-heated oven, are both wholesome and palatable. {MH 301.2}


Do you know what "so far as possible" means? I believe you do, but choose to ignore that in order to have some pretense upon which to criticize me.

Now, if the loaves are small enough, and the temperature high enough, it may be that the yeast will all die. According to some, yeast may not survive above about 180 degrees. But loaves of bread do not always reach 180 at their core. A little research would tell you these things, but it appears you'd rather just sit back and scorn. One thing seems clear from the data that I've seen: alcohol would be long gone from the bread before the yeast all died.

Have we profited in this off-topic excursion? I'm done with it. Let's get back. There's no alcohol in bread to worry about.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Green Cochoa] #162089
02/20/14 11:20 AM
02/20/14 11:20 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: kland
What temperatures can yeast survive to?

If Mrs. White is to be believed, kland, it appears most of the yeast does die during baking but enough may well survive to cause us problems. I'm not a better expert than she is. I don't think modern scientists are either. Do you?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


I too accept Ellen White's statement on this issue. Even though I like hot bread, I will pray for God's help to stop.

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Daryl] #162091
02/20/14 11:45 AM
02/20/14 11:45 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Some confuse Matthew 26:29 with this issue of alcohol being consumed. I do what Jesus and His apostle consumed was non-fermented fruit juice.

But, I do believe the experience of Christ on the cross does apply and that is why Jesus refused it. Matthew 27:34; They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. (KJV)

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Alchemy] #162119
02/20/14 10:40 PM
02/20/14 10:40 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: kland
What temperatures can yeast survive to?

If Mrs. White is to be believed, kland, it appears most of the yeast does die during baking but enough may well survive to cause us problems. I'm not a better expert than she is. I don't think modern scientists are either. Do you?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


I too accept Ellen White's statement on this issue. Even though I like hot bread, I will pray for God's help to stop.
Well, I'm not disputing whether we should eat freshly baked bread, but Green's insertion of why. How about you? Why should we not eat fresh bread?

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: kland] #162210
02/23/14 03:36 AM
02/23/14 03:36 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
As I said kland, because I trust the counsel from Ellen White.

It has just gotten that way for me after many years that I can trust her writings to this extent. I know people want a natural explanation as well. Most times that can be done.

But, what about the minority of the time when we can't make a strong naturalistic argument? I believe Ellen White anyway.

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Daryl] #162253
02/23/14 09:40 PM
02/23/14 09:40 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Which bread? In USA today bread keeps forever due to all the chemical poisons that is in it, so it does not make much difference how old it is when you eat it.

In our country we omit all of those chemicals, but then the bread starts getting moldy on the second day.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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