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Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #129690
12/17/10 10:33 AM
12/17/10 10:33 AM
D
Davis  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Nairobi, Kenya
I realize this thread has been inactive for a while but I feel obliged to comment. I have followed Jeff's interpretations keenly and a couple of my friends have preached themes similar to what he advances. Out of my discussions with them, and based on my own studies into Jeff's propositions, I agree that we are in a most important point in our history and need to wake up to the fact. However, as some have mentioned, I see some flags in his current message and wish to observe the following:

Last edited by Davis; 12/17/10 10:38 AM.
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #129691
12/17/10 10:34 AM
12/17/10 10:34 AM
D
Davis  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Nairobi, Kenya
1. If 9/11 does fulfil the third woe then 1888 was not really the Loud Cry. But we have overwhelming evidence that the Lord began bringing us into the Loud Cry and we did not rise up to the need of the time.

Last edited by Davis; 12/17/10 10:39 AM.
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #129692
12/17/10 10:35 AM
12/17/10 10:35 AM
D
Davis  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Nairobi, Kenya
2. The interpretation is based on the fact that the 7th trumpet (which ushers the 3rd woe) has been sounding since 1844. I agree with someone who commented previously that the 7th Trumpet sounds at the close of probation. See Rev 10:6, 7. The phrase translated as 'when he shall begin to sound' should better read 'when he shall be about to sound' as can be understood from most major bible dictionaries.
Strongs: G3195 primarily means 'To be about:
a) to be on the point of doing or suffering something
b) to intend, have in mind, think to'

Young's literal translation: 'But in the days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when he may be about to sound, and the secret of God may be finished, as He did declare to His own servants, to the prophets.'
I could post more versions but from your own private studies you can verify the exact meaning of the phrase. You could also find it useful to assess the various times the word is translated by the KJV- it is almost ALWAYS in anticipation of something. See Strong's analysis of the word

This could mean that the 7th trumpet has not began sounding since Rev 10: 7 says the mystery of God will be fininshed in anticipation of the sounding of the 7th trumpet. That being the case, the 3rd woe has not even began, so the entire interpretation might not hold.

Last edited by Davis; 12/17/10 10:53 AM.
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Charity] #129693
12/17/10 10:36 AM
12/17/10 10:36 AM
D
Davis  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Nairobi, Kenya
3. These words are normally used to support the idea that there will be another 'delination' of events similar to that of the 1840-44 movement as a parallel to the 7 thunders: 'These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order. Daniel shall stand in his lot at the end of the days. John sees the little book unsealed. Then Daniel's prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels' messages to be given to the world. The unsealing of the little book was the message in relation to time.'
My proposal on this text is that the words 'these relate to future events' were adressed, not to Mrs. White as is commonly held, but to John as a reason why he should seal them. Notice that the text is still talking about John in the next sentence: John sees the little book unsealed... The quting only differentiates where scripture begins and ends but not the message to John. Mrs. White has used this form of writing elsewhere, i can pull up references when i have more time. Anyway, what I am trying to propose is that the 7 thunders do not necessarily repeat as some commonly hold due to their interpretation of the passage.
When this is compared to the reason why the message of the 7 trumpets was hidden ('The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angel's messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested'), it becomes clear that the reason why this message of the 7 trumpets was sealed is because of the experience of the Great Disappointment which the early Adventists had to go through.

I have more to say but will wish to hear your thoughts.
God bless!

Last edited by Davis; 12/17/10 10:42 AM.
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Davis] #129730
12/19/10 07:31 PM
12/19/10 07:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Davis, welcome to the forum. I look forward to studying with you. My research of the Spirit of Prophecy (SOP) has led me to believe the Loud Cry of the Latter Rain follows the formation of the image of the beast (USA) and the subsequent enforcement of the mark of the beast (Sunday Sabbath). Ellen wrote:

As foretold in the eighteenth of Revelation, the third angel's message is to be proclaimed with great power by those who give the final warning against the beast and his image.--8T 118 (1904). {LDE 201.6}

But the time to receive the mark of the beast, as designated in prophecy, has not yet come. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit Sabbath, and when the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast in their foreheads or in their hands. {BTS, February 1, 1913 par. 5}

Servants of God, with their faces lighted up and shining with holy consecration, will hasten from place to place to proclaim the message from heaven. By thousands of voices, all over the earth, the warning will be given. Miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and signs and wonders will follow the believers.--GC 611, 612 (1911). {LDE 203.2}

I heard those clothed with the armor speak forth the truth with great power. It had effect....I asked what had made this great change. An angel answered, "It is the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, the loud cry of the third angel." {Mar 201.6}

I have no specific time of which to speak when the outpouring of the Holy Spirit will take place--when the mighty angel will come down from heaven, and unite with the third angel in closing up the work for this world; my message is that our only safety is in being ready for the heavenly refreshing, having our lamps trimmed and burning (RH March 29, 1892). {7BC 984.7}

As the message of the third angel swells to a loud cry, great power and glory will attend the closing work. It is the latter rain, which revives and strengthens the people of God to pass through the time of Jacob's trouble referred to by the prophets. The glory of that light which attends the third angel will be reflected upon them. God will preserve his people through that time of peril. {ST, November 27, 1879 par. 10}

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Mountain Man] #129735
12/20/10 07:13 AM
12/20/10 07:13 AM
D
Davis  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Nairobi, Kenya
MM, I agree with you fully.
Even in 1888 as Mrs. White confirmed that the message which was to usher us into the fullness of the Loud Cry had began, movements were evident which would doubtlessly have led to the climax of the final conflict. I believe the relationship between the Loud Cry and the Mark of the Beast will be the same as then in the final fulfilment. The Loud Cry will swell from a slow beginning as did the Midnight Cry. What is going to assist it blow up into a Loud cry will be the widespread interest generated by the debating into- and final passing of- the sunday Laws. Evidence from Great controversy which I cannot dig up now because I am in the office smile
I think, as was observed earlier on this thread, the key thing we lose in Jeff's arguments is the role of the kmessage of righteousness by faith in preparing people for the final outpouring. In his analysis, all that stood between the people of God and this remarkable blessing was, not the sins and insubordination of the people of God, but the development of radical Islam.
How sad!

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Davis] #129746
12/20/10 06:45 PM
12/20/10 06:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Davis, it's good to know we are in agreement regarding this key doctrine. You will be happy to learn that I also believe the message and testimony of the True Witness must shake Adventism. It is a shaken and purified Adventism that will give the trumpet that distinctive, "certain sound". Too many Adventists believe Jesus will save them in their sins. They do not believe Jesus promises to save them from their sins.

Even many of the most well meaning Adventists believe we are born again with our sins [bad habits and practices] in tact and then we are supposed to work forever thereafter to gradually outgrow them. They disagree with Peter's description of newborn babes in Christ:

1 Peter
2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious.

Newborn babes in Christ have "tasted that the Lord is gracious" and have laid aside "all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings" and are daily growing and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit through the "sincere milk of the word."

This is not to say they have lost the ability or freedom to separate from Jesus and resume sinning, no, not at all. However, it does mean that so long as they are "walking in the Spirit", "abiding in Jesus", and "partaking of the divine nature" they "do not and cannot" commit a known sin.

If they neglect to abide in Jesus and commit a known sin they immediately receive the gift of repentance which empowers them to confess and forsake their sin which in turn gives God the legal right to pardon them and to restore them to mind of the new man. They resume where they left off growing in grace and maturing daily in the fruits of the Spirit "perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: Mountain Man] #129832
12/25/10 01:44 AM
12/25/10 01:44 AM
Daryl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
bump


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: lco] #130062
01/09/11 10:52 PM
01/09/11 10:52 PM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
The Biblical reasons given above do demonstrate how the 9/11/01 event is not the Seventh Trumpet, etc. I have recently done several studies that shed some light towards an understanding of the message of the Seven Thunders. The summary of these studies in regards to the Seven Thunders is given in this blog post , however the linked underlying studies will have to be read to get the full context and Biblical foundation. Hope this helps. Comments on it can be made here.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Bible Study Method's - Methods used by Jeff Pippenger [Re: NJK Project] #130069
01/10/11 04:03 PM
01/10/11 04:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
The Biblical reasons given above do demonstrate how the 9/11/01 event is not the Seventh Trumpet, etc. I have recently done several studies that shed some light towards an understanding of the message of the Seven Thunders. The summary of these studies in regards to the Seven Thunders is given in this blog post , however the linked underlying studies will have to be read to get the full context and Biblical foundation. Hope this helps. Comments on it can be made here.

Would you mind summarizing in 50 words or less what you believe about the 7 trumpets?

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