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Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: NJK Project] #131189
02/24/11 05:25 AM
02/24/11 05:25 AM
cephalopod  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 252
Washington, USA
For those people alive who heard the messages they were identical in that they were required to follow the Testimonies of God's holy Prophet.

At the time of the first vision Sister White "had given up" on the shut door and midnight cry - she believed it to have been a fasle message.

Remember, Miller's message of 1843/44 was ONLY to repent because Jesus was coming. When Spring 1844 came and went Storrs and Incarnation of Elijah were able to convince Miller and a large number of Advent followers that Miller was RIGHT in the event but wrong in the time - due to a calendation issue.

Therefore Incarnation of Elijah's "message" was IDENTICAL to Miller's message with the ONLY difference being the timing.

Sister White participated in the sorrows of Spring 1843 and Spring 1844 coming and going with no Jesus THEN also participates in the Great Sorrow with Jesus not coming on 22 October 1844.

It's important that you take note of this - that there was NO OTHER MESSAGE beside 1) REPENT -- because 2) Jesus was Coming in Spring 1843/44 THEN finally 22 October 44.

This was the state of things when a little girl became God's Mighty Sock puppet. It was then the hand of God operated the husk which was Sister White.

Without any further information people were in their right mind by 'giving up' after all Sister White had 'given up' on the shut door. The Bible itself said loudly and clearly that "no man knows the season, day or hour" - and like others Sister White also felt safe in this false Bible security - at least she did until God got her attention.

The first vision was specifically used to show Sister White she was in grave danger in giving up the Shut door and Midnight cry - she accepted what God had said and under Inspiration of God's holy Spirit taught that God was "testing" His people by seeing if they would put the words of the Bible OVER His own Prophet!

That was it - that was the TOTAL of the message. i.e. the people who rejected the Millerite and Incarnation of Elijah's shut door and midnight cry because the Bible said "no man could know the day or hour" FAILED the test and the people who rejected the Bibe in favor of God's prophet ( at that time Incarnation of Elihah ) passed - this is a most majestic teaching and allows a peace that money can't buy!

Ellen was only a little girl of few years - she was terrified to tell her 1st vision to Sam Snow because she thought he would be like most of the others who had rejected the shut door as error.

I'm here to tell you that the Shut door was NOT error and the people who sided with the Bible will realize this on the last day. God's sock Puppets have the authority to bind and loose and when Ellen made the prophecy known what she had bound on earth became bound in heaven - later when it was realized that God's people had not attained a "perfect character without spot or stain" the door had to be opened again Ellen "loosed what was bound" - or better said God did it through Sister White.

The people who initially rejected Incarnation of Elijah's October 22, 1844 message were toast and pointing to the Bible as it what it said about date setting did them no good at all. Sister White was SHOWN by God Himself that they were LOST. This is the point I made previously- the Bible is as worthless as a heap of fish wrap without a "necessary guide" to interpret when certain parts of it are in or out of force, or perhaps tampered with. It's as simple as that.

I've quoted Sister White's FULL and untampered Vision from 1849 on the shut door which included the Sabbath. In both the first message and the last the shut door was equally in effect and because the people who appealed to the Bible for rejecting Incarnation of Elijah were already done for - the time for their Salvation was PAST and since they were out of the way God continued to TEST His people - this time on the issue of His Holy Sabbath. I've taken care to highlight the part that boldly says that rejecting God's sock puppet is not a crime against the sock puppet - it's a crime against God Himself.







Originally Posted By: Sister White
This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: and on my servants, and on my handmaidens, I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall
prophesy."

At the commencement of the Holy Sabbath, (Jan. 5,) we engaged in prayer with Bro. Belden's family at Rocky Hill, Ct., and the Holy Ghost fell upon us. I was taken off in Vision to the most holy place, where I saw Jesus still interceding for Israel. On the bottom of his garment was a bell and a
pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Then I saw that Jesus would not leave the most holy place until every case was
decided either for salvation or destruction: and that the wrath of God could not come until Jesus had finished his work in the most holy place--laid off his priestly attire and clothed himself with the garments of vengeance. Then Jesus will step out from between the Father and man, and God will keep silent no longer; but pour out his wrath on those who have rejected his truth. I saw that the anger of the nations, the wrath of God, and the time to judge the dead, were separate events, one following the other. I saw that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished his work in the Sanctuary, he will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out. I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus work was done in the Sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous, and they thought that we had brought them down upon them, and if they could rid the earth of us, then the plagues would be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble. Then all the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the Voice of God. Then the 144,000 triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God.

Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters--thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting. I asked who this company were. The angel said," these are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up." I heard them cry with a loud voice--"we have believed in thy coming, and taught it with energy." And while they were speaking, their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing, and then they would wail aloud. I saw they had drunk of the deep waters, and fouled the residue with their feet— trodden the Sabbath underfoot, and that is why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting.

Then my attending angel directed me to the city again, where I saw four angels winging their way to the gate of the city, and were just presenting the golden card to the angel at the gate.
Then I saw another angel swiftly flying from the direction of the most excellent glory, and crying with a loud voice to the other angels, and waving something up and down in his hand.
I asked my attending angel for an explanation of what I saw. He told me that I could see no more then, but he would shortly show me what those things that I then saw meant. Sabbath afternoon one of our number was sick, and requested prayers that he might be healed. We all united in applying to the Physician who never lost a case, and while healing power came down, and the sick was healed, the Spirit fell upon me and I was taken off in vision. I saw the state of some who stood on present truth, but disregarded the visions, the way God had chosen to teach in some cases, those who erred from Bible truth. I saw that in striking against the visions they did not strike against the worm--the feeble instrument that God spake through; but against the Holy Ghost. I saw it was a small thing to speak against the instrument, but it was dangerous to slight the words of God. I saw if they were in error and God chose to show them their errors through visions, and they disregarded the teachings of God through visions, they would be left to take their own way, and run in the way of error, and think they were right, until they would find it out too late. Then in the time of trouble I heard them cry to God in agony--"Why didst thou not show us our wrong, that we might have got right and been ready for this
time?" Then an angel pointed to them and said--"My Father taught, but you would not be taught. --He spoke through visions, but you disregarded his voice, and he gave you up to your own ways, to be filled with your own doings."


Then I saw four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and were on their way to accomplish it. Jesus was clothed with Priestly garments. He gazed in pity on the remnant, then raised his hands upward, and with a voice of deep pity cried—"My Blood, Father, my Blood, my Blood, my Blood." Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from God, who sat upon the great white throne, and was shed all about Jesus. Then I saw an angel with a commission from Jesus, swiftly flying to the four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and waving something up and down in his hand, and crying with a loud voice--"Hold! Hold! Hold! Hold! until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads." I asked my accompanying angel the meaning of what I heard, and what the four angels were about to do. He said to me that it was God that restrained the powers, and that he gave his angels charge over things on the earth, and that the four angels had power from God to hold the four winds, and that they were about to let the four winds go, and while they had started on their mission to let them go, the merciful eye of Jesus gazed on the remnant that were not all sealed, then he raised his hands to the Father and plead with him that he had spilled his blood for them. Then another angel was commissioned to fly swiftly to the four angels, and bid them hold until the servants of God were sealed with the seal of the living God in their foreheads. Dec. 16, 1848, the Lord gave me a view of the shaking of the powers of the heavens. I saw that when the Lord said "heaven" (in giving the signs recorded by Matt., Mark and Luke) he meant heaven, and when he said "earth" he meant earth. The powers of heaven are the Sun, Moon, and Stars: they rule in the heavens. The powers of earth are those who bear rule on the earth.--The powers of
heaven will be shaken at the voice of God. Then the Sun, Moon and Stars will be moved out of their places. They will not pass away, but be shaken by the voice of God. Dark, heavy clouds came up, and clashed against each other. The atmosphere
parted and rolled back, then we could look up through the open space in Orion, from whence came the voice of God. The Holy City will come down through that open space.

I saw that the powers of earth are now being shaken, and that events come in order. War, and rumors of war,--sword, famine and pestilence, are first to shake the powers of earth, then the voice of God will shake the Sun, Moon and Stars, and this earth also. I saw that the shaking of the powers in Europe is not (as some teach) the shaking of the powers of heaven, but it is the shaking of the angry nations. I have seen the tender love that God has for his people, and it is very great. I saw an angel over every saint, with their wings spread about them: and if the saints wept through discouragement, or were in danger, the angel that ever attended them would fly quickly upward to carry the tidings, and the angels in the city would cease to sing. Then Jesus would commission another angel to descend to encourage, watch over and try to keep them from going out of the narrow path: but, if they did not take heed to the watchful care of these angels, and would not be comforted by them, and continued to go astray, the angels would look sad and weep. Then they would bear the tidings upward, and all the angels in the city would weep, and then with a loud voice say, Amen. But if the saints fixed their eyes on the prize before them, and glorified God by
praising him, then the angels would bear the glad tidings to the city, and the angels in the city would touch their golden harps and sing with a loud voice-- Alleluia!
and the heavenly arches would ring with their lovely songs. I will here state, that there is perfect order and harmony in the holy city. All the angels that are commissioned to visit the earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out. Heaven is a good place. I long to be there, and behold my lovely Jesus, who
gave his life for me, and be changed into his glorious image. Oh! for language to express the glory of the bright world to come. I thirst for the living streams that make glad the city of our God. The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song.
The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes, they were noble, majestic and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. I asked one of
them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The reply was--"we have lived in strict obedience to the commandments of God, and have not fallen by disobedience, like those on the earth." Then I saw two trees, one looked much like the tree of life in the city. The fruit
of both looked beautiful; but of one they could not eat. They had power to eat of both, but were forbidden to eat of one.
Then my attending angel said to me--"none in this place have tasted of the forbidden tree; but if they should eat they would fall." Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written Victory. Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each was written Purity; and around the leaf were stones of
various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters, and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written Holiness. Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is
not; but the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place." He moved about the place as if perfectly at home.
I begged of my attending angel to let me remain in that place. I could not bear the thought of coming back to this dark world again. Then the angel said--"you must go back, and if you are faithful, you, with the 144,000 shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handy work of God."

For two years past, the Lord has shown me in vision,repeatedly, that it is contrary to the Bible to make any provision for our temporal wants in the time
of trouble. I saw that if the saints have food laid up by them, or in the fields, in the time of trouble when sword, famine, and pestilence are in the land, it will be taken
from them by violent hands and strangers would reap their fields. Then will be the time for us to trust wholly in God, and he will sustain us. I saw that our bread and water would be sure at that time, and we should not lack, or suffer hunger.
The Lord has shown me that some of his children would fear when they see the price of food rising, and they would buy food and lay it by for the time of trouble. Then in a time of need, I saw them go to their food and look at it, and it
had bred worms, and was full of living creatures, and not fit for use. About one week since, the Lord showed me in vision, that houses and lands would be of no use in the time of trouble, and in that time they could not be
disposed of. I saw it was the will of God that the saints should cut loose from every
encumbrance --dispose of their houses and lands before the time of trouble comes, and make a covenant with God by sacrifice. I saw they would sell if they laid their property on the altar and earnestly inquired for duty. Then God will teach them when to dispose of these things. Then they will be free in the time of trouble, and have no clogs to weigh them
down. I saw if they held on to their property, and did not inquire duty of the Lord, he would not make duty known, and they would be permitted to keep their property, and then in the time of trouble their property would come up before
them like a mountain to crush them. Then they tried to get rid of it, but could not.

I heard them mourn like this, --the cause was languishing--God's people were suffering for truth, and we made no effort to supply the lack, and now our property is useless. Oh! that we had let it go, and laid up treasure in heaven. I saw a sacrifice did not increase, but decrease, and was consumed.
I also saw that God had not required all of his people to dispose of their property at the same time, but in a time of need he would teach them, if they desired to be taught, when to sell and how much to sell. I saw that some had been required to dispose of their property in past time to
sustain the advent cause, while he permitted others to keep theirs until a time of need. Then as the cause needs it, their duty is to sell. Now is the time to lay up treasure in heaven, and to set our hearts in order, ready for the time of trouble. Those only who have clean hands and a pure heart will stand that trying time. Now is the time for the law of God to be in our minds (foreheads), and written in our hearts.
The Lord has shown me the danger of letting our minds be filled with worldly thoughts and cares. I saw that some minds were led away from present truth and a love of the holy Bible, by reading other exciting books; and others were filled with perplexity and care for what they shall eat, drink and wear.
I saw some, looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued on a few years longer than they expected, therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth,
out after the world. In these things I saw great danger; for if the mind is filled with other things, present truth is shut out, and there is no place in our foreheads for the seal of
the living God. This seal is the Sabbath. I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished, and that time can last but a very little longer; and
what leisure time we have should be spent in searching the Bible, which is to judge us in the last day.

My Dear Brethren and Sisters:--Let the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ be in your minds continually, and let them crowd worldly thoughts and cares from the mind. When you lie down, and when you rise up, let them be your meditation. Live, and act wholly in reference to the coming of the Son of Man. The sealing time is very short, and soon will be over. Now is the time to make our calling and
election sure, while the four angels are holding the four winds. If any among us are sick, let us not dishonor God by applying to earthly Physicians, but apply to the God of Israel. If we follow his directions (James
5:14, 15) the sick will be healed. God's promise cannot fail.
Have faith in God, and trust wholly in him, that when Christ who is our life shall appear we may appear with him in glory.
E.G. White
Topsham, Jan. 31, 1849



Last edited by cephalopod; 02/24/11 05:27 AM.
Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: cephalopod] #131191
02/24/11 06:03 AM
02/24/11 06:03 AM
NJK Project  Offline
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Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Interesting rehash of all of what you have said before, but, as before, that does not make either relevant or pertinent to the issue at hand. Moreover you claim to know more about EGW prophetic gift that she ever stated or knew. Anyone can see that the 1844 Midnight Shut Door and the 1849 Sanctuary Shut Door were distinct messages. And the spiritual reason is: The first was given for, and applied to, the pre-1844 group of people. For them the “door” in that message was shut. The 1849 message applied to people who later rejected the sanctuary message. The first was for the First angel’s message and the second was for the Second Angel. So here God had two flock triaging messages. And guess what... there is now another “door” for the 3rd Angel’s message involving prophetic and spiritual implications in Rev 3:7, 8ff; 20 & Rev 4:1, but that is a topic for another discussion. (You would do yourself a great favor if you would understand the human reality that is involved in God working through a human instead of adhering to this unbiblical “Sock Puppet” idea.)

But back to the real issue at hand. Again... the 1849 Sanctuary Shut Door message can directly from God. As did the Heavenly Sanctuary hinting Knowledge with Hiram Edson and the 1847 Sabbath = Seal of God understanding. So if you can focusely deal with this issue, even though they go against what you want to “superimposedly” believe about the SOP, address those clear historical facts.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: NJK Project] #131195
02/24/11 04:33 PM
02/24/11 04:33 PM
cephalopod  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 252
Washington, USA
NJK, other then "repent, Jesus is coming in Sping of 1843/44" & "repent, Jesus is coming on October 22, 1844" - What other message do you know of that was promulgated?

If the above was the ONLY message that was presented ( and it certainly was ) AND it went directly against what was in the Bible that specifically dealt with that topic AND we are told that the people who rejected the Millerite and Incarnation of Elijah's message FAILED God's test then how do you see it?

An individual can't test a teaching that does not exist, they can only test teachings that exist and we are clearly told the people "at that time" who rejected the definite time ONLY did so because of what the Bible said about setting dates - again, there was no other teaching the message was ONLY Repent, Jesus is coming in Spring of 43/44 then for sure in October 44. The little flock of which Sister White writes was saved because they rejected the Bible.

Then, when time passed and many people gave up on the Shut Door midnight cry ( t0 include Sister White ) it was God's provided Vision to Sister White that re-confirmed the shut door midnight cry.


Imagine yourself there, take the period from 1841 to 1845 and tell me what the ONLY message of this movement was "at that time" - What would you have done NJK?

What I've said is most relevant and pertinent to the issue at hand and instead of sticking to the original deposit of the Advent faith our church has made a huge departure from it - watered down what Sister White has said to the Church and pretended like she needed to be studied no different then the Bible - what a Joke! prophets came to talk to people in their own language and time and that's why - so there would be no question whatsoever at all.

you want to convince me? Show me what "other message" was presented by Miller, Incarnation of Elijah and Storrs then show how THAT ONE and ONLY message passed the Bible test and how it could be that the people who accepted that message "passed God's test" while the people who said they agreed with preaching the Second Coming and living a holy life but were against saying exactly "WHEN" Jesus would come FAILED GOD'S TEST.

If you understand that simple basic element of this issue what I've been saying will become very clear to you - it will make perfect sense and then you will know what you have to do.

The Door was shut in BOTH visions, for Pete's sake an angel tells Sister White the people who could have been saved by re-affirming the shut door message were lost because they rejected God in the person of Ellen White - did you not read that vision and see the bolded parts? The Sabbath was simply an additional test to weed out the none hackers.

The first test was gave to see if man would accept God or what is currently in the Bible - those who went with the Bible were done for.

The second testing was to establish the metal of those who rejected the Bible and to see if they would walk in God's law or not - very similar to another group of people we read about who left Egypt.

What other "prophet" can you point me toward who said if you rejected them then they rejected "God"?


All the visions of Sister White came directly from God - God and Jesus are who "sends the angels".

Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: cephalopod] #131203
02/24/11 07:40 PM
02/24/11 07:40 PM
NJK Project  Offline
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cephalopod, I think we’ve been down this road before. I did not agree with the angle for your rationale then and still do not because it is unbiblically spiritually limited by your overzealous EGW bias, especially in this ‘discrediting of the Bible for her views,’ something which she never recommended. So I have no problem at all with the SOP, but with your selectively unbalanced view of it.

As I said before, and as clearly stated by the SOP, the people who failed the Midnight Cry test, failed not because they wanted to believe the Bible, because God clearly saw that this was only a pretext. They did not love Christ soon appearing. So they were “shut out” under this first angel’s message test - God’s Judgement Hour. This door was the door to the Sanctuary/Temple Courtyard where the sacrificial offering, representing Christ’s death was offered. It thus applied to every Christian. And those who were shut out were left out in the camp, with no opportunity of this sin pardoning salvation. That is why they were lost.

The Second Shut Door shut out post October 22, 1844 people who truly did not want to be purified from “Babylonian” teachings and practises with God’s Sanctuary message and ministry. For them, they were left out in the courtyard and the door of the first apartment shut them out of the Holy Place. So they never came to understand restored truths such as the Sabbath, State of the Dead, Sanctuary, etc. This is clearly seen in the many surviving “Adventist” groups still existing today in various denominational forms, e.g., Jehovah Witnesses, Churches of God, Christadelphians, Advent Christian Church (George Storrs’s Church), etc.

The Third Shut Door, as I mentioned before, involves the Most Holy Place Separating Door. And those who refuse to understand God’s Full Sabbath teachings of not only observing the correct day in the correct way, but as Isa 58 teaching, meeting the vital needs of all those in need, and that thoroughly (Matt 25:31-46), and that by preferring to remain in the current lukewarm Laodicean state by refusing to heed Christ’s voice and accepts His prescribed remedy (Rev 3:17-20) will likewise be “shut out” of this distinct sanctifying apartment in God’s Sanctuary complex, which unlocks the full and practical beauty of God’s Ten Commandments and Everlasting Covenant. As such ones left in the dark, they will not see realize nor enjoy the many blessings that were first given through EGW under the Philadelphia Church message. (The Laodicean Church is really an unwanted aberration of God’s expectation for His Church. Philadelphia has always been its ideal.) So for them, that Davidic open door, which indeed fulfills all of God’s Triumphant promises in regards to Israel through Davidic-type victory and leadership, (Rev 3:7ff) will only be an unopenable “shut door”. And the Great, now Eschatological “Triumphant” future that God has for His Church. However for those who refuse this Laodicean remedying message, they will not partake of these “things to come, which are beyond this eschatological “opened door” (Rev 4:1ff). In fact they’ll not even see/understand these things as this door will also be a “shut door” for them. All of these themes are further discussed throughout my blog, which you can read up on starting in this post. As stated and implied in that post from the Spirit of Prophecy, the revelation and more complete understanding of God’s truths was not to end with passing of EGW. God’s Great and still unfolding Work has and will move forward until its perfect completion.

My main point in saying this, which you seem to want to ignore, was that contrary to your previous claim that ‘all our doctrines came first from the Bible and was only then confirmed by EGW’ (which I now also do not understand, given your expressed view that the Bible is irreparably corrupt), I have shown you here 3 examples where our Biblical teachings and understandings first came directly from God through a prophetic revelation, including Edson.

Last edited by NJK Project; 02/24/11 08:12 PM.

“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: cephalopod] #131210
02/24/11 08:45 PM
02/24/11 08:45 PM
J
JAK  Offline
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Active Member 2018
Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Quote:
This is the point I made previously- the Bible is as worthless as a heap of fish wrap without a "necessary guide" to interpret when certain parts of it are in or out of force, or perhaps tampered with. It's as simple as that.


Ye ere, in that ye know neither Scripture nor EGW. This is a totally RC position, one against which the Reformers of the Protestant Reformation fought. EGW herself rejects it.

I reject it outright, no discussion.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: JAK] #131211
02/24/11 09:46 PM
02/24/11 09:46 PM
NJK Project  Offline
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I fully second that Biblical rejection.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: NJK Project] #131214
02/24/11 11:35 PM
02/24/11 11:35 PM
cephalopod  Offline
Active Member 2014
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 252
Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: NJK

cephalopod, I think we’ve been down this road before. I did not agree with the angle for your rationale then and still do not because it is unbiblically spiritually limited by your overzealous EGW bias, especially in this ‘discrediting of the Bible for her views,’ something which she never recommended. So I have no problem at all with the SOP, but with your selectively unbalanced view of it.


I'm not the one who discredited the Bible - God did when He explicitly said those who used it to test the Shut Door message and rejected it "failed" God's test. We need to be crystal clear on that.

Originally Posted By: NJK

As I said before, and as clearly stated by the SOP, the people who failed the Midnight Cry test, failed not because they wanted to believe the Bible, because God clearly saw that this was only a pretext. They did not love Christ soon appearing. So they were “shut out” under this first angel’s message test - God’s Judgement Hour. This door was the door to the Sanctuary/Temple Courtyard where the sacrificial offering, representing Christ’s death was offered. It thus applied to every Christian. And those who were shut out were left out in the camp, with no opportunity of this sin pardoning salvation. That is why they were lost


Then logically one would assume that provided an individual loves Jesus and "really" wants him to return fully validates rejection of the Bible. That's what you just said. I've been saying the same thing.

The thing you've not grasped is that the ONLY MESSAGE at that time ( and for years past that date ) was Jesus was coming at a definite time so repent.

It would be like:

Cephalopod: Hey NJK Jesus is in Las Vegas come with me to go hang out with him!

NJK: The Bible says we are NOT to do that so I'm not going with you.

Cephalopod: The reason you are not coming is because you really don't want to see Jesus - you've sealed your fate!

It's then stated that going to see Christ in Las Vegas was a "test" and the people who didn't go to Vegas failed, not because the Bible said that it would be a false Christ but because they really didn't want to see Jesus - While the people who went to Vegas violated the clear warnings of the Bible but because they REALLY wanted to see Jesus they passed the test! Think about it, that's about as foolish as it gets. NJK, in your descriptive of the "why" you've invalidated the Bible in the same way I have - I'm just honest and up front about it.

So, the people who rejected ONLY the "definite time" part of Incarnation of Elijah's message were "shut out" because they didn't love Jesus near? You REALIZE that proves exactly the point I was making, right? That provided a real prophet speaks for God the actual message can violate the Bible like a pedophile does a child. You've just made the whole point better than I could have.

Originally Posted By: NJK

The Second Shut Door shut out post October 22, 1844 people who truly did not want to be purified from “Babylonian” teachings and practises with God’s Sanctuary message and ministry. For them, they were left out in the courtyard and the door of the first apartment shut them out of the Holy Place. So they never came to understand restored truths such as the Sabbath, State of the Dead, Sanctuary, etc


You need to review the history again. The "first vision" Sister White had in relation to the Shut Door was at the very time SHE HAD REJECTED it as error. The vision confirmed the Shut Door to Sister White and after she promulgated this holy teaching around 60 other people who had ALSO rejected the Shut door again accepted it as truth.

The ONLY thing the shut door meant was that the possibility of salvation had TERMINATED for ALL who had always rejected the shut door as well as for the people who had initially accepted the Shut Door then 'gave it up PERMANENTLY'.

The "Shut Door" ONLY meant one thing, that was all it ever meant. Sister White was CLEAR that the people who had accepted the Shut Door and Midnight Cry as promulgated by Incarnation of Elijah and had fallen asleep were SAVED - they were safe in Jesus without the Sabbath or Sanctuary.

When Sister White says "God's People" within that time hack it ONLY meant the Advent believers as the others were LOST and no possibility of salvation existed for them. As God spoke through Sister White other "tests" were applied thus God's people were culled or SIFTED out for eternal destruction. The Door was Shut in 1844 and what was sealed on earth was sealed in heaven and what Sister White loosed on earth was loosed in heaven. This is the ultimate meaning of Present Truth.

Originally Posted By: NJK

The Third Shut Door, as I mentioned before, involves the Most Holy Place Separating Door. And those who refuse to understand God’s Full Sabbath teachings of not only observing the correct day in the correct way, but as Isa 58 teaching, meeting the vital needs of all those in need, and that thoroughly (Matt 25:31-46), and that by preferring to remain in the current lukewarm Laodicean state by refusing to heed Christ’s voice and accepts His prescribed remedy (Rev 3:17-20) will likewise be “shut out” of this distinct sanctifying apartment in God’s Sanctuary complex, which unlocks the full and practical beauty of God’s Ten Commandments and Everlasting Covenant.



Originally Posted By: Sister White

I saw that Jesus had SHUT THE DOOR in the holy place, AND NO MAN CAN OPEN IT; and THAT he HAD OPENED the door in the Most Holy, and no man can shut it.


Jesus first "SHUT THE DOOR in the holy place" THAN opened the door to the M.H.P. The door to the H.P. was SHUT. Sins get to the M.H.P. via the H.P. therefore shut the door to the H.P. ONLY the sins which had already passed even make it to the M.H.P. You know this.


Originally Posted By: NJK

As such ones left in the dark, they will not see realize nor enjoy the many blessings that were first given through EGW under the Philadelphia Church message.


The early SDA Church was already Laodicean by 1850!

Originally Posted By: Pioneers

But you say; "Do NOT believe the door is shut, for I believe that there has been true conversions since 1844; WE are now in the gleaning time AFTER the GREAT Harvest HAS BEEN REAPED." To this I answer after the harvest is reaped then there must be a time for the threshing and then the fanning and gathering the wheat into the garner. But I with you want all of the standing heads of WHEAT gleaned out of the field and let them be threshed and winnowed and the wheat be gathered into the garner BUT REMEMBER that when the wheat and tares were ripe and the harvest was reaped it was then TO LATE to convert ripe tares into wheat.


http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/PT-AR/PT-AR-Part3-EX/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=2





Originally Posted By: NJK

(The Laodicean Church is really an unwanted aberration of God’s expectation for His Church. Philadelphia has always been its ideal.) So for them, that Davidic open door, which indeed fulfills all of God’s Triumphant promises in regards to Israel through Davidic-type victory and leadership, (Rev 3:7ff) will only be an unopenable “shut door”. And the Great, now Eschatological “Triumphant” future that God has for His Church. However for those who refuse this Laodicean remedying message, they will not partake of these “things to come, which are beyond this eschatological “opened door” (Rev 4:1ff). In fact they’ll not even see/understand these things as this door will also be a “shut door” for them. All of these themes are further discussed throughout my blog, which you can read up on starting in this post. As stated and implied in that post from the Spirit of Prophecy, the revelation and more complete understanding of God’s truths was not to end with passing of EGW. God’s Great and still unfolding Work has and will move forward until its perfect completion.


I'm going to have to read that several times over - it sounds nothing like what the Pioneers detailed under the direction of God's holy Prophet. I'll get back to you on this.

Originally Posted By: NJK

My main point in saying this, which you seem to want to ignore, was that contrary to your previous claim that ‘all our doctrines came first from the Bible and was only then confirmed by EGW’ (which I now also do not understand, given your expressed view that the Bible is irreparably corrupt), I have shown you here 3 examples where our Biblical teachings and understandings first came directly from God through a prophetic revelation, including Edson.


There is zero doubt that the Bible teaches Impeccability of Christ and also there is zero doubt that the Bible also teaches that the Apostolic Church would always be the one true Church - there is also zero doubt that the Bible teaches immortality of the soul and that the Apostles met and observed Sunday. None of these things we agree with so while the Bible does indeed lead MILLIONS upon MILLIONS to believe in these doctrines our Pioneers without any training in the ancient languages pulled a few texts and claimed they taught something else THAN Sister White affirmed that's exactly what those texts the Pioneers used taught - therefore the Bible teaches what Sister White has confirmed it to teach which I've said from the start. Edison's was so much a worthless suggestion UNTIL Sister White CONFIRMED it and that's what you will find with each and every one of our distinctive teachings.

Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: cephalopod] #131218
02/25/11 12:45 AM
02/25/11 12:45 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
You continue to astound me with your claims. Makes me cringe at what is at the end of your belief line. However, I cannot do this anymore cephalopod. Without the Greater Light of the Bible, rightly studied, which you need to discredit, anything can be said and claimed as you are doing. So I cannot waste my time in such vain discussions. Good Luck! You’ll need it.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: NJK Project] #131220
02/25/11 02:13 AM
02/25/11 02:13 AM
cephalopod  Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 252
Washington, USA
I thank you for your conversation NJK, it meant a lot to me.

Eventually, when you are ready to face the fact that the people who heard William Miller and Incarnation of Elijah promulgate the True Midnight Cry and Shut Door only had THAT message to test against the Bible.

Only message being:

A) Repent now
Because
B) Jesus is coming on 22 October 1844

Perhaps you will eventually be able to imagine yourself back at that time and imagine constrasting the message from Incarnation of Elijah, George Storrs and William Miller with the Bible, UNDERSTANDING the ONLY thing people had to go off of was the ONLY message which existed at that time:

Originally Posted By: William Miller

Repent, Jesus is coming in Spring of 1843 or Spring of 1844


Vs.

Originally Posted By: Acts 1:7

And he said unto them, It is NOT for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


Originally Posted By: Incarnation of Elijah & George Storrs

Repent, Jesus is coming on October 22 1844


Vs.

Originally Posted By: Matthew 24:36

But of that day and hour knoweth NO man, no, NOT the angels of heaven, but my Father only


The fact remains that Sister White WAS given the day AND the hour. The Apostles were not given such information, Jesus wasn't given such information yet our Prophet was.

Originally Posted By: Sister White

I have been instructed that the messages given in the past are to be revived and that IT IS ESSENTIAL that as brethern and sisters, we be joined together in the bonds of SACRED UNION in the accomplishment of the work before us. The world knows very little of the truths that we believe and in CLEAR STRAIGHT LINES THE MESSAGES for this time MUST be given to the world


Once the reality of the above sinks in you will understand it's not logical or reasonable to offer apologetics for a teaching that didn't exist for some 13 years AFTER 22 October 1844. Attempting to reverse engineer 'WHY' and 'HOW' the True Midnight Cry and Shut Door was faithful to the Bible when it obviously wasn't makes a laughing stock out of our Church far more then just coming to terms with the fact that no greater Prophet ever walked the earth then our dear Sister White! She clearly had binding and loosing power for how else could she have directly rebuked the so called Bible AT THAT TIME ( the time long previous to Sanctuary Day Star Extra )!

If you think I've gone off the deep end just remember this conversation the next time you see a news report saying Jesus is in the desert or Jesus is in Las Vegas - why is it NOT ok for someone to say that and you go with them when it was ok for our initial message to reject the Bible just as much if not more? I've thought deeply on these things and it may shock you to find out there are many more people who see it very similar to the way I do.

There is a group of "me" in nearly every Church and we are gaining in numbers for the glory of Father and His holy Prophet.

The best of all wishes to you NJK.

Re: Shut-door theology- Who came up with it and how? [Re: cephalopod] #131222
02/25/11 02:48 AM
02/25/11 02:48 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
This is precisely what I was increasingly cringing to ultimately hear from you:

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
The fact remains that Sister White WAS given the day AND the hour. The Apostles were not given such information, Jesus wasn't given such information yet our Prophet was.


Have you ever considered that Jesus, at the very least, came to know this day and hour upon His first one on one meeting with the Father following His ascension to heaven after and EGW came to know and made to forget this, some 1800+ years later because Jesus then told it to her. So in any way, Jesus knew this 1800+ years before EGW, and the reason why He was not fully made aware of this on while on Earth was, as I understand it, the fate of Israel had not been fully sealed, i.e., until 70 A.D., yet still more things had to first be accomplished by God’s Israel.

In your group’s “infiltration” of the SDA Church, I can only wish that you will meet with people who know their Bible and properly understand the SOP.

And in any future responses, you do not need to restate your view, I read/heard it the first time and it increasingly made no since to me, especially seeing that it must be based upon unfounded claims. So, using the SOP recommended arbitrator of Truth, the Bible, I see absolutely ‘no light of dawn’ in what you have claimed. (Isa 8:20). When you turn of this Greater Light, you actually also turn off the Lesser Light and in such a situation, I indeed can only wish you and yours “luck” as you try to wade into the spiritual darkness of this World and its multi-faceted Deceptive Age.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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