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Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: NJK Project] #131110
02/21/11 12:43 AM
02/21/11 12:43 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
If you follow...


If I follow? What does that mean? Your post made absolutely no sense. It was simply a mish-mash of pompus-sounding fluff, half-formed ideas, and non-existant words. It did not present a single concrete point worthy of discussion.

Originally Posted By: NJK Project
Hope this helps!


Not a bit.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: JAK] #131111
02/21/11 03:21 AM
02/21/11 03:21 AM
NJK Project  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: JAK
If I follow? What does that mean? Your post made absolutely no sense. It was simply a mish-mash of pompus-sounding fluff, half-formed ideas, and non-existant words. It did not present a single concrete point worthy of discussion.


My “If you follow..” statement, is indeed understood by what I continued to say, namely that: ‘...the prophetic Remnant concept in Rev 12, it, being symbolically depicted, starts off in Rev 12:1...’ (I corrected the typos in this quote).

So since I know it is exegetically sound, rightly interpreting prophetic symbols as identified in the Bible, you’ll have substantiate your ranting response with some hard evidence. I.e., why my points are not valid. That is a quite involved prophetic study which I tried to summarize in one paragraph. I thus indeed did not fully develop all of these points. I thought you were/would be familiar with this widely-known, at least in SDA Circles which includes this SDA Forum, prophecy already. So apparently what seems to be “pompous to you” was because I was speaking from a point of view that what I was going to say would be readily understood.

Nonetheless is a full, edited and slightly explained/expanded repost. (I recommend looking up an, e.g., online SDA Prophetic Seminar study on the Remnant Church for a full exposition on the prophecy):

Originally Posted By: NJK Project
If you follow the prophetic Remnant Concept in Rev 12, it, being symbolically depicted, starts off in Rev 12:1, describing the “Church” (represented as a “woman”) (cf. Matt 16:18) that Jesus Christ established based upon the OT’s passing covenant teachings (=“moon under her feet”) now exercised in “Righteousness” (= “clothed with the sun”) through the Twelve Apostles (= “twelve stars on her head”).

Following the Great Controversy period of direct Satanic opposition (Rev 12:2-16) i.e., from Christ’s victorious death on the cross (vss. 2-4; cf. 7-13a) through the Apostles’ day (vs. 5) and then through Christian Church History (vs. 6), including Reformatory periods (vss. 13b-16), the “remnant” that is spoken of is the preservedly restored, spiritually direct descendant (= “seed”) of that priorly established “Church”.

So that ‘“Remnant” which keeps the Commandments of God and hold/have the Testimony of Jesus’ (= “Spirit of Prophecy” - Rev 19:10) is, by these direct associations, a “Remnant Church of Christ’s Apostolic Church’.

So God’s “Remnant Church” is indeed to be a congruous and homogenous, formal organization as established by Christ (John 17:11, 12), as it was in the days of the Apostles (e.g., Acts 1:14; 4:32), and which others are called to concretely join (John 10:16). [Again] Hope this helps!


The main point I was making was that the Christian Church was symbolically depicted in this Prophecy as being a Church (Rev 12:1) and its surviving “Remnant” is spoken of at the end in Rev 12:17 (= ‘the rest/remnant/remaining portion of her seed (i.e., the “child” in vs. 1). Thus it too is rightly considered as a Church as it was in its earlier, initial mention Church (vs. 1).

Also, as this is manifestly crucial here: Are you an SDA, a Progressive SDA or of another Christian Denomination? I have previously already discussed many point against the Remnant Church teaching stemming from this post.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: NJK Project] #131168
02/23/11 06:08 PM
02/23/11 06:08 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
Also, as this is manifestly crucial here: Are you an SDA, a Progressive SDA or of another Christian Denomination?


I Cor. 1:10-17. I am a Christian who chooses to fellowship with Seventh-day Adventists.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: JAK] #131169
02/23/11 07:59 PM
02/23/11 07:59 PM
NJK Project  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: JAK
I Cor. 1:10-17.


To be exegetically accurate here, Paul was not address a Corinthian Church that was divided over doctrinal differences, but only private allegiances (i.e., who they were baptized by) as this also meant to them that they had received a particular “anointing” from their baptizer. So Paul was not addressing a denominationally divided Christian Church, as it is today, and moreoverly not telling them to ‘not to consider themselves divided despite their doctrinal differences’. For a true unification to occur, these crucial teaching, which affect practical practises, must be Biblically resolved and brought into line with what they Bible actually teaches. So Paul counsel to today’s already fractured Church would most likely instead be: “I wish that there be unity amongst you in the original truth that was delivered to you’.

Originally Posted By: JAK
I am a Christian who chooses to fellowship with Seventh-day Adventists.


I can understand that, however if you probe more deeply the reason why you are “choosing” to do so, vs. another Christian Denomination, you will probably begin to understand the concept of a Remnant Church, - i.e., a current Church/denomination that is comprehensively the closest match to the Apostolic original.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: NJK Project] #131176
02/23/11 08:53 PM
02/23/11 08:53 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Do not be so arrogant as to presume to have the right to explain the reasons for my choices.

Last edited by JAK; 02/23/11 08:54 PM.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: JAK] #131178
02/23/11 10:04 PM
02/23/11 10:04 PM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: JAK
Do not be so arrogant as to presume to have the right to explain the reasons for my choices.


Not being “arrogant” nor even “explaining” anything. Just following the inevitable, implicated, sequitur logic here, especially given the 5 distinctive/distinguishing truths of SDA’s , namely: The Sabbath, Sanctuary, Spirit of Prophecy, (Manner of) Second Coming and State of the Dead, all of which usually drive people who do not believe in them away from “fellowship” with the SDA Church. So... don’t put words in my mouth nor mal-construe my intentions! Man, are you hyper-sensitive and touchy on this issue!!!


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: NJK Project] #131361
03/02/11 08:43 PM
03/02/11 08:43 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
...given the 5 distinctive/distinguishing truths of SDA’s , namely: The Sabbath, Sanctuary, Spirit of Prophecy, (Manner of) Second Coming and State of the Dead,...


Just as an aside, of the 5 doctrines above only the Sanctuary may (possibly) be considered either distinctive or distinguishing of SDA theology, and the Investigative Judgement was not included. The other doctrines we share with one or more Christian denominations or religious groups


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: JAK] #131374
03/03/11 05:18 AM
03/03/11 05:18 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
That may technically be true however, I have yet to see a Spirit of Prohecy gift manifested in another denomination as it was in EGW (2000 vision, valid and foreseeing counsels, works productions including an inspired commentary on my parts of the Bible, etc, not to mention the accompanying manifestation of the physical signs that validate the genuine gift.

The Investigative Judgement in inclusively understood in the Sanctuary Teaching because, as it was annually seen in Ancient Israel, it was this “temple cleansing and judgement session” that capped Israel’s religious calender each year (=Dan 8:14).

Of the top of my head, I cannot think of another denomination that has more than 2 of those 5 teachings (mainly State of the Dead/Sabbath & Second Coming) however without the other 3 (Sanctuary, SOP), the other 2/3 are greatly deficient in their prophetic contribution (e.g., properly understanding Daniel and Revelation, among others). So given the interconnected of these 5 teachings as found in the SDA Church, one really would have to believe in all 5 of them to consider the SDA Church and its message (as a undivided whole) to be preaching the (full) Truth of the Bible.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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