Are Enoch, Moses and Elijah really in heaven???

I came across this from a fellow sabbath keepers site (yet not a seventh day adventist) and it shocked me. http://www.keithhunt.com/Enochhea.html - are they really in heaven?

The bible just speaks of them being translated. It never actually says they went to heaven. So we really don't actually know where they went.

AND, even if it does, that still proves nothing. Because it speaks about 3 heavens in the bible... one being the atmoshpare, one space and one heaven heaven where God resides (yay!) so when it says God took Elijah up to heaven, couldn't it have easily meant that he was taken up into the atmosphare? And then taken somewhere else? The entire point of this would be because God wished Elijah to "retire" as such, and let Elisha take over.

If, indeed, these guys WERN'T taken up to heaven, it leaves as far as I'm concerned, 2 big questions- one, what is up with them appearing? At the very least, I know Elijah and Moses appeared to Jesus. And second, Ellen G White said those three are in heaven but how is that so? For Heb 11:13 says that only Jesus has been taken up to heaven (at least thats how I translated it) and if she is wrong, then shouldn't we put the word of the bible above her readings? And if we find fault, what does that say about Ellen G Whites credibility?

[ April 22, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Windmill ]

It looks like a wellmade case in the website linked to. Will be interesting to see what you all make of this one...

/Thomas

I know thats why its sort of distrubed me by how right it sounds.

Hey Windmill,

Do the cross referance in the gospel of Matthew chapter 27( I believe) VS 50 to52. Cross it over with EGW writings as to where the "saints that slept came forth in the resurrection of Jesus".It will make the hair on your neck stand straight.

I have never heard another SDA preacher preach on this subject.........it is awesome.

The scripture that backs it up is in Eph. that says, And as he acsended on high, he led captivity captive.

In one place EGW calls the group a multitude or a company........however many it was, it was a bunch.............

Where did the 4 and 20 elders come from??????

God Bless.........Barry

I'm totally confused o.O

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Quote of the previous post removed as it is immediately above your reply and is, therefore, not necessary here. - Daryl

[ April 22, 2005, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

I believe the SOP confirms that these men are indeed in Heaven. Mrs. White saw Enoch while in vision in Heaven. I don't have the references but if you want to, you can look it up in the index of the SOP and find it.

And what of Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration?

Windmill,

Let’s go by parts. First, the letter written by Elijah to Jehoram.
The first thing to notice is that the king Jehoram mentioned in 2 Cron 21:12 is the king Jehoram of Judah, not the king Jehoram of Israel. They were contemporary and brothers-in-law (the Jehoram of Judah married Ataliah, sister of the Jehoram of Israel), and had the same name. Thus, you will have to pay close attention to understand the problem.
Compare 2 Kings 1:17 and 2 Kings 3:1.
2 Ki 1:17 says that Jehoram of Israel became king in the 2nd year of Jehoram of Judah
2 Ki 3:1 says that Jehoram of Israel became king in the 18th year of Jehoshaphat (the father of Jehoram of Judah)
This double reckoning of the accession of Jehoram of Israel to the throne shows that Jehoram of Judah was already reigning some years before the death of his father Jehosaphat as his co-regent.
It is a complicated chronology, but I’ve tried to make a diagram below. What seems to have happened is that Jehoram was a co-regent with his father Jehosaphat for a number of years before officially becoming king, which fact also occurred before his father’s death (at about the 23d year of his father’s reign – 2 Ki 8:16). We know that his father lived until after Elijah was translated to heaven and Elisha had already began his ministry (2 Kings 3:11). Therefore, the letter must have been written during the first or second year of Jehoram’s official reign (23d or 24th year of his father’s reign), and Elijah’s translation must also have occurred at some point during this period, obviously after the letter was written.



If there is something you didn't understand, feel free to ask.

Edited to add the text which shows that Jehosaphat reigned 25 years - 1 Ki 22:42

[ April 22, 2005, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Rosangela ]

If they were not in heaven, why whould they have come to the transfiguration?