HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums & Chat Rooms
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested $20 or Higher Donations Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading
Donations accepted: Here
Shout Box

Newest Members
Fred88, Christian G, The Wanderer, aarjona, phineas
1289 Registered Users
Forum Stats
1289 Members
118 Forums
8527 Topics
182293 Posts

Max Online: 1283 @ 05/14/17 03:59 PM
Who's OnIine In
Chat Room #1?
Right Click Here & Select "Open in New Tab or Window" to Enter Chat Room #1 or Just Simply Click Here
Join the following presently in Chat Room #1:

Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

Top Posters (30 Days)
Gary K 113
Alchemy 67
The Wanderer 43
dedication 43
Elle 38
Nadi 34
kland 23
June
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30
Featured Member
Registered: 07/16/16
Posts: 128
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Happy Sabbath To All!!
Springtime
Lessons from The Smallest Of Creatures
Who's Online
4 registered (Nadi, Daryl, dedication, 1 invisible), 336 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 67 of 68 < 1 2 ... 65 66 67 68 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#134770 - 06/27/11 03:30 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: cephalopod]
NJK Project Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 1098
Loc: Laval, Quebec
Interesting post Cephalopod. I more than less follow your line of argument. I am however personally, Theologically, not convinced that EGW was given a full revelation here. I think there is Biblical reason to believe that the salvation transaction was more “complete”. I.e., under a realized Plan A for the salvation of man, Diety had to be sacrificed in the ransoming transaction. This understanding may all be related to “a glorious Star [=Mighty Angel?? (“Star” is capitalized in early publications, e.g, ExV 11.1 (1851)] containing Jesus' new name.” (~‘new understanding’ - Rev 3:12=EW 15.1).
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Top
#134771 - 06/27/11 03:40 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: NJK Project]
cephalopod Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 252
Loc: Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
Interesting post Cephalopod. I more than less follow your line of argument. I am however personally, Theologically, not convinced that EGW was given a full revelation here. I think there is Biblical reason to believe that the salvation transaction was more “complete”. I.e., under a realized Plan A for the salvation of man, Diety had to be sacrificed in the ransoming transaction. This understanding may all be related to “a glorious Star [=Mighty Angel?? (“Star” is capitalized in early publications, e.g, ExV 11.1 (1851)] containing Jesus' new name.” (~‘new understanding’ - Rev 3:12=EW 15.1).


I'm from the camp which says there was no greater Prophet than Sister White...
...Everything else pales when compared to what God did through her.
...Her raw number of visions puts "all" the so called Bible prophets to shame.
...Take ALL the visions of all prophets mentioned in Scripture and they don't hold a CANDLE to her.

Tell me about the "new undertanding" however nothing new could contradict Sister White...
...As she was the true Sock Puppet for God in a most literal sense.

I would be interested in hearing it.

According to Sister White only the Father was "GOD"...
...The Holy Spirit was simply God's personal property to do with as He wished.



Signs of the Times, 1912, Vol 39 # 32 3829 —
The Holy Spirit A Personality?

Question:
Can't we say that the Holy Spirit is a
personality, as long as the personal pronoun
is attributed to it? T. A. Z.

Answer:
The use of the personal pronoun is not of itself proof that the Holy Spirit is a personality, and yet the work of the Spirit is the work of a personality. By the Spirit both the Father and the Son come personally to every soul that receives the Spirit. In that wonderful sense which no human being can comprehend, the Spirit comes to each soul as a personality. And yet it does not have what we would call human personality of being in one place only at one time, that is, such personality as has our Lord Himself — in one place as He is in no other place. The Holy Spirit may be in any number of places at one and the same time, bringing the special presence of God in each of those places. In the office of the "Signs of the Times" there are fourteen different telephones all connecting with the manager. The manager may connect all these with him at one and the same time. He could issue a general order so that the foreman of each department could hear his voice at the same time. In a way he is personally present in every department. Every department hears his voice. The marvelous invention of the telephone makes him present in fifteen different places at the same time. So it is that God's Spirit makes the Father and the Son present in as many different places as God may direct, at one and the same time. We know somewhat of the working. We understand how it is to some extent of the Lord's ways and methods. We see the effects, but we know almost nothing of the nature and the power that Infinity uses to communicate with man. Let us be willing to leave it there. In some instances the Spirit is represented as the great life of God. In some it is spoken of as a power that is poured out and shed forth. To the individual it comes as the representative of the personal God. Therefore it may be spoken of as a personality, and looking at it from another view-point, as not a personality


Revew and Herald, Sept 6, 1892

Is God a Spirit?

Question:
If God is a spirit (John 4:24) and at the same time a person (Dan 7:9) would not the same reasoning prove that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON as referred to in John 4: 26?

Answer:
NO - For God is elsewhere described and represented as a Person; but the Holy Spirit is not. The fact that the Holy Spirit is personified John 14 and thus spoken of as acting in a personal and individual manner does NOT prove it to be a person any more than the fact that love is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 as performing certain acts and exercising certain emotions, prove that charity or love is a person


Eventually enough SDA's will wake up that the GC has hijacked the Faith of Sister White....
...The Faith she confirmed as she uttered the very words of God.


Edited by cephalopod (06/27/11 04:02 AM)
Top
#134772 - 06/27/11 04:06 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: cephalopod]
NJK Project Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 1098
Loc: Laval, Quebec
I think we’ve already been over what you think of EGW vs. the Bible and Bible Prophets. No need to rehash that discussion. The Biblical fact is, there is more to learn than what EGW was allowed to understand, e.g., as she observed in 1899, on the Mark of the Beast (GCDB, March 2, 1899 par. 3; cf. 6T 17 (1900)).

In regards to my new understanding, I have already stated it here. My view is that Jesus sacrificed His Divinity and upon his return to Heaven was given the form of a Mighty Angel, up from his then remaining human nature. (No need to repost your above arguments. I have taken them into consideration).
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Top
#134782 - 06/27/11 11:45 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: NJK Project]
cephalopod Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 252
Loc: Washington, USA
There was some evidence that Sister White believed Christ "sloughed off" His resurrected body on His way to heaven...
...I've never been able to get anything solid on this other than conjecture so I would be interested in hearing your take.

...Is the summary of the new idea in this thread?


Edited by cephalopod (06/27/11 11:47 AM)
Top
#134783 - 06/27/11 11:46 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: NJK Project]
Mountain Man Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2015

20000+ Member
Registered: 10/25/00
Posts: 22078
Loc: Southwest USA
Jesus received an upgraded form? Is an angel form an upgrade over a human form?
Top
#134784 - 06/27/11 11:50 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: Mountain Man]
cephalopod Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 252
Loc: Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Jesus received an upgraded form? Is an angel form an upgrade over a human form?


Sister White taught that long before the world was created that the Father had a body with a real form as a "man"...
...Michael the archangel AND Lucifer the archangel also had "bodies" as well as all the other angels.
...Toes, fingernails, heir, eyes, vocal chords and even rectum.
Top
#134789 - 06/27/11 05:33 PM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: cephalopod]
NJK Project Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 1098
Loc: Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: cephalopod
There was some evidence that Sister White believed Christ "sloughed off" His resurrected body on His way to heaven...


I would say this actually was done after the Father reviewed and approved Chirst’s sacrifice upon his first resurrection ascension. (3SP 202.1-203.1)

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
...I've never been able to get anything solid on this other than conjecture so I would be interested in hearing your take.


As I have the understanding/view that EGW was not given the full light on this development and much of what she expressed on ‘what died or did not die at the Cross’ was based on her level of “Theological” understanding on the subject and not out of direct revelation or deeper/more accurate exegetical studies (such as her earlier understanding that John 20:17 said “Touch me not (KJV) until she, apparently from her visions, saw that it should more accurately say “Do not detain me” as scholars have only recently also realized), then much of this view of my is based on exegetical “conjecture”, however also corroborated by certain SOP statements/revelations.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
...Is the summary of the new idea in this thread?


It is, as I thus far, but increasingly more concretely, understand it.
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Top
#134790 - 06/27/11 05:34 PM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: Mountain Man]
NJK Project Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 1098
Loc: Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Jesus received an upgraded form? Is an angel form an upgrade over a human form?


I think it should be readily/commonly easy to see/understand that a human form, (i.e., Christ’s condescending incarnate form (Phil 2:5-11)), is ‘a little lower than an angel’s’ (Psa 8:5, Heb 2:7, 9)!!

My understanding of “Mighty Angels” [7 available positions] (cf. in here) is that they have a higher form, function and authority than other angels.

It is interesting to me that Paul mentions in Phil 2:9, 10 (which I believe fulfills (Rev 3:12=EW 15.1; ExV 11.1), that it was upon exaltingly receiving a the (new) name which is above all names that Jesus (again) was worship by all. (See Heb 1:3-9ff - vs. 3's exact representation (literally in the Greek: “character” (#5481) is not ‘exact “form/shape”’ (#3444)). No notion here that this exaltation and worship was done by restoring a divine nature to Christ or even because of a still present divine nature. I believe that it was that “form of God” (Phil 2:6) was left as the ransom price on the Cross.

As I see it, that exalted name of Christ is so “unique” because it, like in Jacob’s name change to Israel, commemorates the unique experience and triumph of Christ of being the only human to have lived a sinless life, even through the most extreme of trials, temptation and ordeal. As such, this “sinless human” is worthy of being worship by all others under God the Father, even if Christ may no longer have his divine nature. Cf.:

Originally Posted By: SOP 7ABC 456.4
In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is linked with us.... He gave Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice; He gave Him to the fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God gave His only-begotten Son to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human nature. ... God has adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has carried the same into the highest heaven.--Ibid., p. 25.


That all would also explain why Jesus first wanted to have his sacrificed verified and accepted upon His (human only form) resurrection before He now, received any worship from any one, even humans. Something He did not so shy away from before.
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Top
#134803 - 06/27/11 11:01 PM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: NJK Project]
cephalopod Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 252
Loc: Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Jesus received an upgraded form? Is an angel form an upgrade over a human form?


I think it should be readily/commonly easy to see/understand that a human form, (i.e., Christ’s condescending incarnate form (Phil 2:5-11)), is ‘a little lower than an angel’s’ (Psa 8:5, Heb 2:7, 9)!!

My understanding of “Mighty Angels” [7 available positions] (cf. in here) is that they have a higher form, function and authority than other angels.

It is interesting to me that Paul mentions in Phil 2:9, 10 (which I believe fulfills (Rev 3:12=EW 15.1; ExV 11.1), that it was upon exaltingly receiving a the (new) name which is above all names that Jesus (again) was worship by all. (See Heb 1:3-9ff - vs. 3's exact representation (literally in the Greek: “character” (#5481) is not ‘exact “form/shape”’ (#3444)). No notion here that this exaltation and worship was done by restoring a divine nature to Christ or even because of a still present divine nature. I believe that it was that “form of God” (Phil 2:6) was left as the ransom price on the Cross.

As I see it, that exalted name of Christ is so “unique” because it, like in Jacob’s name change to Israel, commemorates the unique experience and triumph of Christ of being the only human to have lived a sinless life, even through the most extreme of trials, temptation and ordeal. As such, this “sinless human” is worthy of being worship by all others under God the Father, even if Christ may no longer have his divine nature. Cf.:

Originally Posted By: SOP 7ABC 456.4
In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is linked with us.... He gave Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice; He gave Him to the fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God gave His only-begotten Son to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human nature. ... God has adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has carried the same into the highest heaven.--Ibid., p. 25.


That all would also explain why Jesus first wanted to have his sacrificed verified and accepted upon His (human only form) resurrection before He now, received any worship from any one, even humans. Something He did not so shy away from before.


Where is part 1 of this study?
...I could only find part 2.

Sister White was fond of the Apocrypha and knew all the books...
...I'm sure you have read.

Ellen White, 1850 vision.
I saw that the APOCRYPHA was the hidden book, and that the wise of these last days SHOULD understand it.

The Bible Sister White had absolutely had "the Apocrypha" in it...
...However I'm fairly sure it didn't have the Book used to cite the 7 archangels by name.

The study is interesting to be sure but what has me wondering as to it being valid...
...Is the point made about "7" archangels.

Sister White speaks of more archangels than that I believe and aside from Michael ( conditional christ ) & Lucifer...
...She never named any others.
Top
#134804 - 06/28/11 12:53 AM Re: 2 to 5 - The Trinity [Re: cephalopod]
NJK Project Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 1098
Loc: Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: cephalopod
Where is part 1 of this study?
...I could only find part 2.


Part 1 “The Unrolling of the Scroll was linked to above as the “cf. in here” reference. Links within the Part 2 post jump to specific parts of that first post where pertinent issues had been introduced/discussed.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
Sister White was fond of the Apocrypha and knew all the books...
...I'm sure you have read.

Ellen White, 1850 vision.
I saw that the APOCRYPHA was the hidden book, and that the wise of these last days SHOULD understand it.


Indeed. I mention this in my part one post.

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
The Bible Sister White had absolutely had "the Apocrypha" in it...
...However I'm fairly sure it didn't have the Book used to cite the 7 archangels by name.


There are a couple of reasons why I include the Book of Enoch as part of this recommended “Apocrypha”

(1) The catholic Church selectively picked out only certain books to be part of what EGW may thus have “canonically” had listed as the Apocrypha. Several other works, such as this one, were left out. However for substantive reason, I don’t see why they should be left out since the “Apocryphal” books also require the same level of judicial study.

(2) As mentioned in the Part 2 post, the Book of Enoch is quoted in the Bible in Jude 14, 15.

These books are part of what has been called the (OT) Pseudepigrapha, as they were most likely not written by the Biblical Character bearing their name. However this was merely an attribution, which is also done in the Bible (e.g., the book of Daniel, which although it contains his prophecies and experiences, was actually written/arranged by someone else. Major parts in Isaiah are evidently the same i.e, Ch. 40-55 & 56-66).

Still the content of these Pseudepigrapha can be gleaned for valid statements (cf. 1 Thess 5:19-21).

Originally Posted By: cephalopod
The study is interesting to be sure but what has me wondering as to it being valid...
...Is the point made about "7" archangels.

Sister White speaks of more archangels than that I believe and aside from Michael ( conditional christ ) & Lucifer...
...She never named any others


As stated in Part One of this study, this reference to 7 (positions) of Mighty Angels was mentioned in the Book of Tobit, which was an “Apocryphal” book.

Though e.g., does not name other angels, as presented in this study, I think there are quite significant and valid Biblical reasons for this view. As explained in Part 2 of this study Rev 8:2 seems to be an allusion to this special group of Mighty Angels.

By the way, as also mentioned in Part 2, the EGW often stated name “Lucifer” was actually not the name of “Satan” before his fall. It was most likely “Rameel” = “morning of God”, as stated in the Book of Enoch. See that study.
_________________________
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Top
Page 67 of 68 < 1 2 ... 65 66 67 68 >

Moderator:  Green Cochoa 
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
(Not Refreshing Immediately)
Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
by dedication
Today at 04:44 AM
Protestants renounce Protestantism
by dedication
06/26/17 11:21 PM
Christian school told it must stop using specific scriptures
by Gary K
06/26/17 09:17 PM
A new Global Economic Restructure in 2012
by The Wanderer
06/26/17 05:26 PM
Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold.
by The Wanderer
06/25/17 01:54 AM
Daniel 9 and the 144,000
by kland
06/23/17 02:02 PM
The Euphrates & Kings of the North, South & East
by His child
06/19/17 06:17 AM
Ping kland
by Alchemy
06/17/17 01:17 PM
The Political Pope
by Alchemy
06/17/17 01:05 PM
Left wing financial lunacy
by Alchemy
06/17/17 01:04 PM
Vandals alter road sign
by Gary K
06/16/17 03:39 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y
06/16/17 11:38 AM
There is more than one way to look at the economy!
by Gary K
06/15/17 12:25 AM
Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar?
by dedication
06/11/17 10:44 PM
When The Clouds Go By
by The Wanderer
06/11/17 03:12 PM
Real economic numbers for the US
by Gary K
06/08/17 02:50 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What happens during the seventh seal? Revelation 8:1
by Alchemy
06/11/17 08:16 AM
Will Pope Francis I Apologize to Canadians?
by dedication
06/02/17 07:56 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter

Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com
WELCOME!
� 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.


"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!

Website Ranking