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Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Johann] #149155
01/20/13 08:41 PM
01/20/13 08:41 PM
H
Harold Fair  Offline
Active Member 2013
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 215
Florida, USA
I don't know about leaning from the Amish. We had qite a large settlement of them is S. Indiana where I came from. I once offered a friend EGW's book on the "Mark of the Beast". I ask if he would read it. He said for me to check back with him in a week of so. I did. He handed me the book and told me that his elder wouldn't let him read it.
I respect their hard work, but not the way they treat their children.
Harold.


Harold T.
Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Harold Fair] #149160
01/20/13 11:54 PM
01/20/13 11:54 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
His elder wouldn't let him read it?

Interesting.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Harold Fair] #149161
01/21/13 12:15 AM
01/21/13 12:15 AM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec

It's true Harold, there is no individual religious freedom among the Amish. Private Bible study is frowned upon; everyone must submit to the Church elders in matters of doctrine. Obviously we shouldn't learn from that. But they (& Mennonites) live simply off the land, relying on community and enjoying great economic independence. SDAs have long been counseled (& warned) to do likewise, but most couldn't fell a tree or split a log to warm their backsides, or tell loam from clay.

__________________

Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Daryl] #149170
01/21/13 11:12 PM
01/21/13 11:12 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Why did Jacob ask his family to give up their jewelry before dedication at Bethel?

That's a good question Daryl. I've been pondering on this the past week. Here is what I got up 'til now.

First of all the Bible doesn't say that Jacob asked his household to give up jewelry.

AV Gn 35:2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that [were] with him, Put away the strange gods that [are] among you, and be clean, and change[khaw-laf' "prop. to slide by i.e. (by implication) to hasten away, pass on, spring up, pierce or change."] your garments: 3 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went.

Jacob ask them to put away their strange gods and be clean by which it includes a "change"(khawlaf) of their garments. I thought the definition of khawlaf a little vague. When we are unsure of a definition of a word, at times looking at the definition of each letters of the Hebrew word reveal insight on the true definition. So Khawlef is spelled with the following letters: He Cheth Lamed and Phe Here’s the meaning of these letters: 1st Letter: He--reveal; 2nd:cheth--heart; 3rd : lamed--authority; 4th: phe--speak. We put these meanings together : reveal heart authority speak So Jacob ask something like “to put garments that reveals the authority of their heart that speaks”.

The following verse shows how Jacob’s household responded to his request.

AV Gn 35:4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which [were] in their hand, and [all their] earrings[neh'-zem, comes from an unusual root meaning “a nose-ring”] which [were] in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which [was] by Shechem.

So the Bible specifies that they gave all the strange gods and their earrings. No other jewelry were specified, but it was the earrings that they gave Jacob.

I suspect that what Jacob requested his household has to do with the law in Ex 21:6. Which says that when a slave does not want to be freed on the start of the Sabbath 7th year because he loves His master; then the master brings the slaves to Elohim who pierces his ears to the door of his house.

We need to go deeper than the letter of the law, and come to understand the spiritual reality of it that is very relative to our own spiritual growth and demonstrates the Lord's process of our salvation. All the law is spiritual and in this case it means that this slave's ears were opened. This servant loved his master and was in full agreement with his laws. At first when he was "under the law" serving time because of his sins according to the law of servitudes, he was forced to obey the law of his master. For the slave to return to the master and refusing his freedom, shows that the laws of the master were now in his heart. Therefore, the man now wanted to obey out of his heart the laws of his master.

The “door” to which the servant’s ear is attached to is Christ Himself. Jesus said “I am the door”. So Ex 21:6 signifies & prophecies that the perpetual servant was hearing the words of Jesus Christ Himself. Paul and the other apostles refer themselves as servants of Jesus Christ also. They understodd this law and out of love refused their freedom and return to the Master as a perpetual slave.

Now, relating this to Jacob’s household handing out the earrings they had in their ears could signify that they are giving up hearing the words of the strange gods.


Blessings
Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Elle] #152072
04/23/13 03:59 AM
04/23/13 03:59 AM
D
D R  Offline
Charter Member
SDA
Active Member 2020

Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 719
East Coast Canada
Does anyone have a "rebuttal or an Amen" for Elle's post?
Sounds logical and please what is with "our" chastisement of "jewelry"? Next thing we will EDIT the ring off of the Prodigals Fathers finger and melt it in the fire if judgement! As for causing cancer to take a life because someone will not take off a ring! That is ludicrous. ...

Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: D R] #152778
06/01/13 11:24 PM
06/01/13 11:24 PM
G
Gregory  Offline
SDA
Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
Quote:
Jacob ask them to put away their strange gods and be clean by which it includes a "change"(khawlaf) of their garments. I thought the definition of khawlaf a little vague. When we are unsure of a definition of a word, at times looking at the definition of each letters of the Hebrew word reveal insight on the true definition. So Khawlef is spelled with the following letters: He Cheth Lamed and Phe Here’s the meaning of these letters: 1st Letter: He--reveal; 2nd:cheth--heart; 3rd : lamed--authority; 4th: phe--speak. We put these meanings together : reveal heart authority speak So Jacob ask something like “to put garments that reveals the authority of their heart that speaks”.


The above is a very unusual method of translating Biblical Hebrew1

The normal method begins with the typical three (3) letters that are put together to form the Hebrew root. Once that basic meaning has been determined the other letters in the word are examined to see how they modify the root meaning.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Gregory] #152780
06/01/13 11:41 PM
06/01/13 11:41 PM
G
Gregory  Offline
SDA
Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
I am aware that there are people who advocate the position that Elle has expressed in regard to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

Here is one such:
Quote:
The name of the twelfth letter Lamed denotes an ox goad or a pointer. In the ancient script it looked like a Latin L, a picture of a shepherd's staff. This coheres precisely with its grammatical function. When prefixed to a word, Lamed signifies the prepositions to or for. God used it this way in over half of the Alphabetic Verses. Here are two more examples:
AV Ps 145:12 TO make known (l'hodia) to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom.
AV Ps 25:11 FOR thy name’s sake (l'ma'an-shimka), O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.

The name Lamed leads directly to another important KeyWord, lamad (to teach), which also is the root of Talmud, the compendium of Jewish learning. Again, we have an obvious threefold coherence of 1) the meaning of the letter's name as ox-goad or pointer, 2) its grammatical role as the sign of the prepositions to or for, and 3) the meaning of the related KeyWord lamad (to teach). The great miracle of God is that this coherence defines many of the dominant themes of Spoke 12, most notably that of Paul's Pastoral Epistle to Titus (see Teach and Exhort! pg 258).


This position begins with a comment right out of the history of the development of the alphabet. This history is well known. Any good dictionary of the English language will give the developmental background of every letter of the English alphabet. This historical development known in general terms for every alphabet that exists, The historical fact is that letters in a typical alphabet began as an ideograph that had specific meaning.

But, that historical meaning may have little to do with the meaning of individual words that use that letter of the alphabet.

Modern languages do not look to that ancient meaning of individual letters to determine the meaning of modern words. Instead, modern languages look the to see how meaning has developed from the order and combination of the letters that are put together in a word.

In the Hebrew language, the root, which is often three (3) Letters, is considered of basic importance, modified as I stated, by the additional letters in the Hebrew word.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Gregory] #156018
09/11/13 08:16 PM
09/11/13 08:16 PM
D
D R  Offline
Charter Member
SDA
Active Member 2020

Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 719
East Coast Canada
Ah, the adornment of man... careful with that Polo pony shirt, the label of clothing is now sin!?? seriously bizarre that man looks at and "judges" the outward appearance! Thank God, He looks upon the HEART!

and as for the Prodigals Father, he should be ashamed and condemned for the "Signet Ring" that is Jewelry is it not?

Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Daryl] #160684
01/21/14 11:45 AM
01/21/14 11:45 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Daryl
Why did Jacob ask his family to give up their jewelry before dedication at Bethel?


Because God called their "ornaments", or jewelry, idols. I find this an important part of Christian Living as we can be a poor witness for Christ without saying a word. We can be walking down the street and strangers seeing us with jewelry on will immediately think we are worldly rather than Christian.

I believe it makes it harder to witness for the truth when you are openly compromising truth with wearing jewelry.

Re: Giving Up Jewelry? [Re: Alchemy] #160716
01/21/14 09:02 PM
01/21/14 09:02 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Quote:
The spirit of Christ is a missionary spirit. . . The Vaudois ministers were trained as missionaries, everyone who expected to enter the ministry being required first to gain an experience as an evangelist. . . . The youth who received ordination to the sacred office saw before them, not the prospect of earthly wealth and glory, but a life of toil and danger, and possibly a martyr’s fate. The missionaries went out two and two, as Jesus sent forth His disciples. . .
To have made known the object of their mission would have ensured its defeat; therefore they carefully concealed their real character. Every minister possessed a knowledge of some trade or profession, and the missionaries prosecuted their work under cover of a secular calling. Usually they chose that of merchant or peddler. “They carried silks, jewelry, and other articles, at that time not easily purchasable save at distant marts; and they were welcomed as merchants where they would have been spurned as missionaries.”—Wylie, b. 1, ch. 7.{GC 71.1}


Times change.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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