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Re: Role of the 144,000 [Re: Mountain Man] #151537
04/03/13 04:36 PM
04/03/13 04:36 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
I do not believe the 144,000 will feel more holy or righteous. They may feel less holy and righteous than others have felt. But I believe they will actually be more righteous. We have scripture for this.

Read Revelation 14:1-6 carefully and see what you think. Then read Mrs. White's comments on why the 144,000 sing a song that no one else can sing. Then realize that the 144k will also be able to enter a temple in Heaven, throughout eternity, that no one else will be eligible to enter. These are especially special to God. Why is this?

I don't necessarily espouse the idea that the 144k is an exact number. It may or may not be. It is noteworthy, however, that they are said to stand in a perfect square, and there is no exact square root of this number. There are various ways to interpret this, of course.

I agree that some in past ages will have become perfect as well. It is my personal belief that the 144k is not composed only of those who are translated without seeing death. Some will have died. It is my opinion that some who have died after 1844 and have not perfected themselves fully may be saved but not be a part of the 144k. I won't argue this point. We are told not to speculate too much about this group. But my opinion is based on the evidence as I see it that this group has become perfect in God's sight.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
"When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come." Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69.1}
[Christ's Object Lessons (1900)]


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Role of the 144,000 [Re: Green Cochoa] #151543
04/04/13 02:54 AM
04/04/13 02:54 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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GC, thank you for sharing. Excellent points to ponder.

Re: Role of the 144,000 [Re: Mountain Man] #151547
04/04/13 11:13 AM
04/04/13 11:13 AM
C
Charity  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
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Excellent thread. A good case can be made from prophecy as well that Pr. Priebe is on the right track. In addition to the description of the 144k, end-time prophecies are full of indicators that Christ is waiting for full co-operation from His Bride:
Quote:

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


This issue is so important to God and to the plan of salvation that Christ makes a rare oath, swearing by God himself that He will bring it to fulfilment:

Quote:
Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, [the mystery is the character of Christ restored, "Christ in you"] as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

In fact, Christ underlines this by taking the oath twice. In the first version of it, notice that the issue is again character perfection in verse 10:

Quote:
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished....
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


But the greatest proof to me besides Revelation 7 and 14 that the perfection of the 144,000 is central to the plan of salvation is Daniel 9 which shows that the Lord was ready to bring in everlasting righteousness, atone for and put an end to sin and purify his people at the end of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9 affirms that the plan of salvation could have been completed within 3.5 years of the crucifixion of Christ if spiritual Isreal, that is the twelve spiritual tribes, had received Him. James mournfully addresses his letter to "the twelve tribes scattered abroad". In other words in the time of the apostles, even in a period of relative church purity, the church and her twelve spiritual tribes was not gathered. The good news is that the gathering of the 12 tribes is assured on oath by Christ Himself, not because of our righteousness. The oath is sworn or made on the righteousness of God.

Re: Role of the 144,000 [Re: Charity] #152301
05/04/13 03:22 AM
05/04/13 03:22 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
The oath is sworn or made on the righteousness of God.

But my issue is with the idea that salvation is dependent on the righteousness of man. True, it is the 144k, who are a fairly righteous lot, but men nonetheless.

Does the sanctuary system teach that the sinner has a part in the atonement after the High Priest has entered the Most Holy Place? As far as I can tell, the sinner's role ends in the Outer Court. And even then, he is a recipient of the atonement, not a foundational part of the plan.

It was in order that the heavenly universe might see the conditions of the covenant of redemption that Christ bore the penalty in behalf of the human race. The throne of Justice must be eternally and forever made secure, even tho the race be wiped out, and another creation populate the earth. By the sacrifice Christ was about to make, all doubts would be forever settled, and the human race would be saved if they would return to their allegiance. Christ alone could restore honor to God's government. The cross of Calvary would be looked upon by the unfallen worlds, by the heavenly universe, by Satanic agencies, by the fallen race, and every mouth would be stopped. {ST, July 12, 1899 par. 2}

Calvary sealed the deal. Whether or not any of us accept the deal will not change the fact that God already won the war. It's just a matter of determining whose side each individual wants to join.

Last edited by asygo; 05/04/13 06:15 AM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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