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Re: The Birth of Jesus. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #144711
08/20/12 08:40 PM
08/20/12 08:40 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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In fact, if the word "trinity" was not coined by Constantine's counsel we probably wouldn't be in the problem we have today with the pagan understanding of the trinity warring against the Godhead inside His church as it is today. Every sin of the past is being revisited today.

What side do you want to be on?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: The Birth of Jesus. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #152295
05/03/13 10:19 PM
05/03/13 10:19 PM
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Gregory  Offline
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Quote:
You better pray about this before you answer sister. I have been blessed with these answers through the Spirit of Prophecy and scripture, so watch your response.



I have read Rosangela for sometime. I may not always agree with everything that she saysl. But, it is clear to me that she has a greater sense of what scripture says than your claims.


Quote:
So are you going to follow me around promoting arguments everywhere I go to shut this thread down too?


I don't think that Rosangela, or any one else has a need to follow you arround. You simply show up where people are. People respond to you due to the content of your posts.


Last edited by Gregory; 05/03/13 10:23 PM.

Gregory
May God's will be done.
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Re: The Birth of Jesus. [Re: Rosangela] #152303
05/04/13 04:13 AM
05/04/13 04:13 AM
A
Augustus  Offline
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Posts: 13
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This is an Arian/luciferian fallacy and has no biblical or spirit of prophercy underpinning.
This is the esoteric teachings of secret societies and Catholicism[it being the mother of such beliefs].
One may find this quotation instructive:-
The Desire of Ages in 1898…she says 'In Him was life Original, Unborrowed, Underived.' In Desire of Ages…she quotes Jesus’ answer to the Jews in John 8:58 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was I AM'… 'He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent…He is the eternal self-existing Son.'" (ms 101, 1897). The English language used here is self-explanatory, thereby forfeiting any ambiguity.
[I love this quote from Brother Waggoner who was truly in Christ when he wrote 'Christ and His righteousness' just after the meeting in Minneapolis MN in 1888. Many people who believe Waggoner was anti-trinitarian by writing this statement do not know the complexities of what is being said].As far as I am aware, Mr Waggoner was not given the gift of prophecy and his statements should be attested to by both The Greater Light and The Lesser light.

Thank You

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Re: The Birth of Jesus. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #152304
05/04/13 04:20 AM
05/04/13 04:20 AM
A
Augustus  Offline
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Posts: 13
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[In fact, if the word "trinity" was not coined by Constantine's counsel we probably wouldn't be in the problem we have today with the pagan understanding of the trinity warring against the Godhead inside His church as it is today. Every sin of the past is being revisited today]. This conclusion has all the hallmarks of Genetic Fallacy.

Thank You

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Re: The Birth of Jesus. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #152305
05/04/13 05:31 AM
05/04/13 05:31 AM
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Augustus  Offline
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[If Jesus came forth from the Father before anything was created, including time and space of our universe, then that is a form of birth. This would also mean Jesus was part of the Father as His seed before coming forth, so He is beyond eternal also. A perfect DNA match to the Father because Jesus did not have a heavenly mother. This is fully within the power of the Father to do, both for his glory and to secure the throne. In the manifestation of the highest heavenly birth of Jesus He was made creator, in the earthly birth without an earthly Fathers DNA He became redeemer from sin...two births].
What's next...Hieros Gamos.
And what of The Holy Spirit?

Thanks

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Re: The Birth of Jesus. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #152306
05/04/13 06:05 AM
05/04/13 06:05 AM
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Augustus  Offline
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[Jesus was BEGOTTEN of the Father in this way when He came in the form of a baby in Bethlehem, carrying on the perfect line of birth, with studies ingrained in His earthly birth to understand His heavenly birth.
God was the first to use those words 'begotten Son'. Waggoner was just putting it into context]. Before attempting to exercise, export and indulge your ignorance on this topic; one ought to familiarise themselves with the Original Greek Text. Most biblical scholars agree that, the exegesis lends itself to Unique Son as oppose to birth son.
Discussion:-
For God so loveth the world,
that he hath given his only son,
that none that believe in him,
should perish:
but should have everlasting life.
—John 3:16, Tyndale translation, 1534 version (modern spelling).
Perhaps you know this verse from the Bible. Notice the words only son are emphasised. That is because they are the subject of this article. In the original Greek, that's μονογενης υιος, or monogenes huios, transliterated.
It is not generally known that ninety percent of the 1611 King James Version is from Tyndale's translation, which I quoted from above. Now, it just so happens that part of the ten percent where they differ is here in the words only son.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son
that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish
but have everlasting life.
—John 3:16, King James Version (KJV), 1611.
The King James Version (KJV) was so influential that it became the standard translation for the next 300 years. And it is still in widespread use.
So where did this word begotten come from? The word that is being translated as only begotten by the KJV is monogenes. The KJV translators liked to translate word-for-word when it was possible. So when they came to monogenes they translated mono as only and genes as begotten. That is easy.
Can the word Son have a symbolic meaning? Yes. The word υιος (or huios, word #5207 in Strong's Concordance) has been used in a symbolic sense in these passages, among others:
to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder
—Mark 3:17
Adam, the son of God.
—Luke 3:38
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
—Galatians 3:26
Currently the best-selling English translation of the Bible is the New International Version (NIV). Here is how the NIV renders John 3:16:-
For God so loved the world
that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him
shall not perish
but have eternal life.
—John 3:16, New International Version (NIV), 1973.
The NIV adds as a footnote,
3:16 Or his only begotten Son
So now begotten is in the footnote and not in the main text. Why?
Begotten Or Not Begotten, That Is The Question
Reasons why monogenes should not be translated as only begotten:
The word monogenes also appears elsewhere in the New Testament:
By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only [monogenes] son, even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.
—Hebrews 11:17-19 (NIV)
This time the NIV (1973) does not have an explanatory footnote offering only begotten as an alternate rendering, as it does for John 3:16, but it is the same Greek word monogenes. To say Isaac was Abraham’s only-begotten son would make no sense since according to the Bible, Abraham begat Ishmael as well as Isaac. But "one of a kind", "one and only", or "unique" would fit because Isaac was special. Abraham's wife, Sarah, was too old to have a child but she nevertheless became pregnant.
Dr. James R. White notes,
The key element to remember in deriving the meaning of monogenes is this: it is a compound term, combining monos, meaning only, with a second term. Often it is assumed that the second term is gennasthai/gennao, to give birth, to beget. But note that this family of terms has two nu’s, νν, rather than a single nu, ν, found in monogenes. This indicates that the second term is not gennasthai but gignesthai/ginmai, and the noun form, genos. G. L. Prestige discusses the differences that arise from these two derivations in God in Patristic Thought (London: SPCK, 1952), 37-51, 135-141, 151-156.
Genos means "kind or type", ginomai is a verb of being. Hence the translations "one of a kind," "one and only," "of sole descent." Some scholars see the -genes element as having a minor impact upon the meaning of the term, and hence see monogenes as a strengthened form of monos, thereby translating it "alone," "unique," "incomparable."
An example of this usage from the LXX is found in Psalm 25:16,
turn to me and be gracious to me,
for I am lonely (monogenes) and afflicted: (NASB)
(White, The Forgotten Trinity [Minneapolis, MN, Bethany House Publishers, 1998], pp. 201-202, fn. 27)
Note that the so-called LXX (mentioned above) is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament that existed in Jesus' day. Sometimes we can gain insight into Greek New Testament words by how Hebrew words were translated into Greek by the Jewish scholars. In this case, the Hebrew word for lonely was translated into Greek as monogenes. So this helps us justify that monogenes means "alone," "unique," or "incomparable."
Reasons why monogenes may be translated as only begotten:
From the discussion above, we see that the seemingly obvious translation of monogenes to only begotten may not be the most accurate. However, the Greek word monogenes does not have a single equivalent corresponding word in English.
[Courtesy http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/jesus_monogenes.html]
Thank You

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