Who or What caused the Flood?

I believe the Bible and the SOP make it crystal clear that God caused the forces of nature to destroy the world with a flood.

There are people, however, who are not so sure it was God who caused the flood. What do you believe?

PP 85
Through holy angels God revealed to Enoch His purpose to destroy the world by a flood, and He also opened more fully to him the plan of redemption. {PP 85.5}

PP 92
A hundred and twenty years before the Flood, the Lord by a holy angel declared to Noah His purpose, and directed him to build an ark. While building the ark he was to preach that God would bring a flood of water upon the earth to destroy the wicked. {PP 92.2}

Tom Ewall has said he isn't sure what caused the Flood, but his views about God and destruction imply God most likely didn't cause it.

Is the Bible or the SOP unclear as to who or what caused the Flood?

Tom will most likely not participate in this study, though he is more than welcome, so, is there anyone out there who has a burden to share what they believe about the Flood?

The reason it is important to take a stand on this issue is because there are people out there who are teaching that God did not cause the Flood. There are different reasons why people believe this, one of them being they believe it is a sin to kill people, even sinners, and since God has never sinned it is not possible that He killed them with a Flood.

Building on this logic, some people go on to say that God has never killed anyone, that all the tragic deaths recorded in the Bible were caused by Satan. Still others take it one step farther and say God will not kill anyone in the lake of fire, that the lake of fire is symbolic and not literal. Some who believe this also say death is simply the result of God withdrawing His protection and allowing the sinners to be consumed by His glory and brightness.

If you do not believe these things, then, please, state your position here and now. Thank you.

God caused the Flood, completely, absolutely. Both the Bible and SOP are crystal clear on that point. Many passages can be posted here if need be, though finding ample evidence of this should be pretty easy for anyone with access to a Bible, an online Bible site such as Bible Gateway, and an EGW CD-ROM or the White Estate online searchable database. (In other words, anyone with an internet connection!)

The following verse testifies to that:

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Genesis 6:17 NKJV And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.

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God Himself in the above verse said that He did it Himself. That is what "Myself" in the above text means.

What about the destruction of Jerusalem?

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1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'

5"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

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Doesn't this say that God destroyed Jerusalem?

What about this verse?

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7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Does God create evil?

How about this one?

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13 So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the LORD, because he did not keep the word of the LORD, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance.

14 But he did not inquire of the LORD; therefore He killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.

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Here's one more:

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20 And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ 22 The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’ 23 Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you.” (1 Kings 22:20-23)

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Does God create evil? Did He kill Saul? Did He send a lying spirit to deceive Ahab? Did He destroy Jerusalem? Does He send a strong delusion to deceive those who reject Him?

What is the principle involved in determining when God is doing something, as opposed to someone else (such as Satan, or the persons involved)?

Well when you look at the flood you will see that Satan himself was right there fearing for his own existence. So it seems reasonable to assume it was God who caused it and not Satan.

Patriarchs and Prophets, page 99, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: The Flood
"As the violence of the storm increased, trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. Above the roar of the tempest was heard the wailing of a people that had despised the authority of God. Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and desired them to live to practice their abominations and continue their rebellion against the Ruler of heaven. He now uttered imprecations against God, charging Him with injustice and cruelty."

...and you cant get much clearer than the Bible verse that Daryl pointed brought up.

The question I brought up in the other thread (which nobody has tried to answer yet) is how can we tell when it is God who is doing something which is ascribed to Him in inspiration. I gave many examples of things which says that God did something which he didn't do. Here's a list of some things:

1)The destruction of Jeruslem. (Matt. 22:1-7; Mark 12:1-9)
2)Moving David to number Israel.(2 Sam. 24:1)
3)Killing Saul.(1 Chron. 10:13)
4)Send a strong delusion to those who refuse to believe the truth so they will believe a lie. (2 Thess. 2:11)

The Bible says God did these things, but He didn't do any of these things. So just because the Bible says God did something, doesn't mean He did it. It could mean He permitted it to happen, which is indeed what it does mean in each of the 4 cases mentioned above.

Therefore simply stating that because something in inspiration says God did something is not sufficient to establish that He actually caused the thing to happen, rather than permitted it to.

Even if the Lord speaks in first person, it doen't mean He is saying that He is causing something to happen, rather than permitting it to happen. For example in Isa. 45:7 God says, "I create evil".

Tom, sometimes when God allows things to happen, He speaks as though He did it Himself, that's true.

But sometimes He does things Himself and speaks as though He did it Himself. Which is to be expected, isn't it.

In the case of the Flood -- if God didn't cause that to happen, who did? Who else has the power to cause such a humongous worldwide catastrophe? Certainly not Satan or his angels. They can cause storms etc., but nothing like the Flood. And it didn't just sort of happen all by itself, at random.

The Adventist Book Center has several very good books concerning the Noachan flood, from the SDA standpoint. And they are surprisingly scientific and well researched, amply able to stand up to evolutionary theories. http://www.adventistbookcenter.com/