There is a difference with disciplining a child and killing a child. There is no changing a child if you kill them. We are talking about the end. Ellen White is clear, God is not the executioner of the sentence against transgression. What is the sentence? The second death. Do sinner's die the second death? Oh yes! I do not accept's green's interpretation of EGW's statement, that we should not see God as the executioner, and then confirm that fact that he is!

Righteousness cannot be demonstrated through ANY violence, Isaiah 53:9; Hebrews 7:26; Matthew 5:39-48, and in the end all will understand this about God, 2 Corinthians 3:18; Isaiah 60:1-3. And at the end of time on this earth, with all it's violence and corruption, the righteous will give testimony to the truth about God in their own lives, Revelation 18:1; Isaiah 40:9.

God is the subject of investigation. In the end all minds will come to the understanding that the sources of life and death are utterly exclusive in their relative offerings. In other words, neither can give an iota of what the other has to offer. The outcome of this investigation reveals an absolute: “Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer” {MH 113} This verdict serves to secure the eternal allegiance of the righteous and the eternal destiny of all the created inhabitants of the universe.

---Scripture References--------------------------------------

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Matthew 5:39-48 But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever shall compel you to go a mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not you away. 43 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

Isaiah 60:1-3 Arise, shine; for your light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen on you. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise on you, and his glory shall be seen on you. 3 And the Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Isaiah 40:9 O Zion, that bring good tidings, get you up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bring good tidings, lift up your voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say to the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

God is the restorer.
He has emptied heaven to enable our restoration.

However, in order to restore that which cannot be restored must be removed.

And when sin reaches the point of no return, God will put a FULL STOP --END to all sin and those who insist on clinging to sin.


Destruction of the wicked is not an arbitrary decision of God.

Those who chose Christ and salvation have chosen LIFE.
Those who chose sin and reject salvation have chosen DEATH.

But when the wicked seek to reverse that by setting out to kill all God's faithful, God will step in and end their madness.
Both just prior to the second coming, the wicked seek to destroy all God's faithful;
And after the 1000 years the wicked march on God's city with the intent of tearing God Himself from the throne and destroying all His faithful -- conquer the city and re-establish satan's rule.

It is at these two points that God steps in and puts a full stop to their agenda. After the 1000 years the rebellion will have fully shown itself for what it is, and God will cleanse the earth of sin and those who cling to sin. Thus fully restoring not only every person who availed themselves of God's wonderful gift of life, but also restoring the earth to paradise -- beautiful, harmonious, and eternally safe.

So God must be a destroyer in order to be a restorer. God it. :-(

Just returned from Camp Meeting.

So refreshing and a blessing to listen to a young preacher using Scripture to show especially the young people how your concept of God sorts out those bewildering evaluations of quotations and in faith you see your Creator and Redeemer in worship, adoration and praise.

The greatest of the commandments is this:

Mark 12:30
and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Breaking this, the first - the greatest - of all all the commandments results in the greatest "punishment" of all: it breaks the connection with the life giver and results is no life.

With this commandment in your life experience your life becomes a living prayer:

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

APL, what is God's "strange act"?

Green, As I understand, APL does not believe God kills and destroys. You are urging him to accept "truth". This so called "truth" you wish him to accept is that God does kill and destroy.

Do you imagine him saying, Green, you are so right. God is the killer and the destroyer. I realize my thinking and leading others to a loving God who is not the destroyer is a sin. I realize my sin would destroy me at the end, but right before it does, God steps in and destroys me. I feel much better now.

Tell us, how will APL accepting that bring healing to his soul?

Who killed Saul?

Ok, God is not an executioner because He doesn't desire to be, but He acts as one?

Ummm....?

So, likewise, would you say Hitler was not an executioner, because he didn't like killing people, but only wanted to eliminate certain ones who disagreed with him?

Do you see God's strange act as His wrath? When is His wrath complete?

God's wrath is against sin.
God's strange act is something God is forced to do, it's something He wouldn't like to do.