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Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Rick H] #154291
07/20/13 06:17 PM
07/20/13 06:17 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Now the corrupted Alexandrian text was allowed to creep into the church and led to the spread of a new theology which divided the church, confused even true followers, and is with us to this day. Arius, parish priest of the church of Alexandria, promulgated his doctrine to the world, occasioning so fierce a controversy in the Christian church that a general council was called at Nicaea, by the emperor Constantine in A.D. 325, to consider and rule upon its teaching. Arius maintained "that the Son was totally and essentially distinct from the Father; that He was the first and noblest of those beings whom the Father had created out of nothing, the instrument by whose subordinate operation the Almighty Father formed the universe, and therefore inferior to the Father, both in nature and dignity." This opinion was condemned by the council, which decreed that Christ was of one and the same substance with the Father. For ages it continued to agitate the Christian world, as the Arians spread the false teaching of Arianism among the people of the Roman Empire and beyond. We can look at the changes and deletions of the Alexandrian text and its derivatives and see the results in this view held by Arians, it almost destroyed the faith of Christian believers.

And yet here we are today, with the same text in the NIV and other new versions, and Christians pick it up and don't understand what it is......as the old saying goes..

"Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it. Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them."





What part of the Alexandrian text contains this corruption? Be specific.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Johann] #154294
07/20/13 08:48 PM
07/20/13 08:48 PM
dedication  Offline
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Posts: 6,411
Canada
I think Rick has been very specific, but it's so hard to read and understand many of his posts that it isn't clear. Referring to the last several posts -- ll those numbers and # signs really don't mean anything to me. I take it they are the numbers of words in Strong's concordance, but who has the time and commitment to look up all those thousands of numbers?

I wonder if Rick himself has looked them all up or if he is just cut and pasting from some source?


I guess I'm admitting this is getting to be way above my head, and probably many other heads as well.

Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: dedication] #154295
07/20/13 09:20 PM
07/20/13 09:20 PM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
You cannot prove or disprove anything with Strong unless you know the languages involved and how the grammar works. Anything else is just child's play that means nothing.

When I worked in Nigeria as a Bible teacher and pastor of the Ile-Ife SDA Mission Hospital a representative from the Bible Society brought me a whole box full of TEV New Testaments straight from the press. Students, staff and church members, who had been using the KJV, were delighted to read the Gospels of Jesus and the Apostles in clear English, and there never was a question about any of our doctrines.

In two other countries where I have worked as a minister in the SDA church for decades, we have never had a KJV Bible, and there has never been a conflict in doctrines with our world church.

It must be Satan himself who is stirring up this unreasonable distrust in Scripture just before the return of Jesus.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Johann] #154299
07/20/13 11:21 PM
07/20/13 11:21 PM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
I think Rick has been very specific, but it's so hard to read and understand many of his posts that it isn't clear. Referring to the last several posts -- ll those numbers and # signs really don't mean anything to me. I take it they are the numbers of words in Strong's concordance, but who has the time and commitment to look up all those thousands of numbers?

I wonder if Rick himself has looked them all up or if he is just cut and pasting from some source?


I guess I'm admitting this is getting to be way above my head, and probably many other heads as well.


NO - those numbers are not Strong's numbers. They are Unicode code points for non-ASCII (think mainly English) characters. That is Greek. The forum editor shows them correctly, but the forum software trashes them when they are displayed.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Johann] #154303
07/21/13 12:26 AM
07/21/13 12:26 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
Quote:
All 3 are based on the same corrupted text and the source hidden so Christians who already knew the corruption of the Alexandrian manuscripts would be fooled, but the true text of the Textus Receptus unveils the false corrupted one, their subterfuge notwithstanding, but we must see with eyes that see and understand what happened.


Here is a false statement planted by Satan to undermine the confidence of people in the Word of God.

Who has claimed that all the books contained in Codex Alexandrius are part of the Bible? Or are such claims true?

Point out the doctrinal mistakes in 1 Clement compared with the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.


Those like the KJV which are based on the Textus Receptus are Gods Word, those based on the Alexandrian manuscripts such as the NIV have always been and will always be a changed and deviated text as history clearly shows, it is undisputable. The only questions is why, and I think I have shown in this study the answer to that and the purpose of those who did it.

Last edited by Rick H; 07/21/13 12:32 AM.
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Rick H] #154310
07/21/13 04:06 AM
07/21/13 04:06 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
You have quoted some opinions which prove nothing. My questions have not been answered. All you are doing is undermining the confidence people have in the Word of God.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Johann] #154317
07/21/13 09:46 AM
07/21/13 09:46 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
You have quoted some opinions which prove nothing. My questions have not been answered. All you are doing is undermining the confidence people have in the Word of God.


No, I have put forth facts which anyone can check if they chose to take the time and effort to see what is there, and brought them together to form a opinion which all can take or leave, that is their choice. But it clearly shows what is the true text and why.

Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Rick H] #154596
08/02/13 10:47 PM
08/02/13 10:47 PM
G
Gregory  Offline
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Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
Philip W. Comfort, Editor. THE ORIGIN OF THE BIBLE, Tyndale House, 1992 - 2012.

The above book, the latest edition was published in December 2012, may be of value to you in a study of the history of the Bible.

It comes from a conservative background with contributions from F.F. Bruce, Carl R.H. Henry, J. I. Packer and others. I do not consider it to be perfect. But, I do consider it to be of value and it clearly does not reflect a liberal approach.

I do not have the latest edition. But, in the older edition that I am looking at, it has the following sections with chapters in each section:

1) The Authority & Inspiraiton of the Bible.
2) The Canon of the Bible.
3) The Bible as a Literary Text.
4) Bible Texts & Manuscripts.
5) Bible Translation.

It is currently sold on Amazon and in other places. If you purchase it make certain that you know what edition your are buying.

For further information click on the following:

http://files.tyndale.com/thpdata/FirstChapters/978-0-8423-8367-7.pdf


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Gregory] #154605
08/03/13 08:28 AM
08/03/13 08:28 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Gregory
Philip W. Comfort, Editor. THE ORIGIN OF THE BIBLE, Tyndale House, 1992 - 2012.

The above book, the latest edition was published in December 2012, may be of value to you in a study of the history of the Bible.

It comes from a conservative background with contributions from F.F. Bruce, Carl R.H. Henry, J. I. Packer and others. I do not consider it to be perfect. But, I do consider it to be of value and it clearly does not reflect a liberal approach.

I do not have the latest edition. But, in the older edition that I am looking at, it has the following sections with chapters in each section:

1) The Authority & Inspiraiton of the Bible.
2) The Canon of the Bible.
3) The Bible as a Literary Text.
4) Bible Texts & Manuscripts.
5) Bible Translation.

It is currently sold on Amazon and in other places. If you purchase it make certain that you know what edition your are buying.

For further information click on the following:

http://files.tyndale.com/thpdata/FirstChapters/978-0-8423-8367-7.pdf

Yes, I will have to look for it. I have come across many new critiques including one on the New York 'bestsellers' list, and all are basically just promoters of the Alexandrinus, Vaticanus, and Sinaiticus, and throw disdain and show what can only be called hate on the true text given in the Textus Receptus.

Thank you and God Bless.
Rick

Last edited by Rick H; 08/03/13 08:29 AM.
Re: Westcott and Hort and their purpose. [Re: Rick H] #154641
08/04/13 11:59 PM
08/04/13 11:59 PM
Alpendave  Offline
Banned Member
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 178
Deer Park, WA

The mode of the Lord’s existence on earth was truly human, and subject to all the conditions of human existence; but He never ceased to be God. ~ B.F. Westcott

But the assumption of humanity, not for a time, but for ever, by the Word, who is God, was a truth undreamt of till it was realized. ~ B.F. Westcott

Christ the Incarnate Word is the perfect revelation of the Father: as God, He reveals God. ~ B.F. Westcott

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