Apparently that is correct, as per this very interesting link:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/929263/jewish/Who.htm

Nice link. Thanks, Nadi.

So, you don't believe that Jesus kept the Law that He gave at the first place and said to keep???

Can you explain briefly your view?

btw. I read the link ... and am not impressed nor see any point made inside that article nor see your point with this link.

No, no, Elle. That was in regard to Gary's comment that the "first born" was the first born of the mother. The link clearly indicates that this is the case.

I have been quite familiar with the phrase from the OT about "opening of the womb" for quite a while, but it still had not occurred to me that the father simply didn't count in considering a "firstborn". It seems women rated a lot higher in Israelite culture than most people think.

Elle,

As I pointed out in my first post on this thread, there is a big difference between the ceremonial law given by Christ through Moses, and the "ceremonial temple worship" during the time Christ was here in human form. The latter was mostly of purely human origin. The Jews had, since the time of their return from the Babylonian captivity, been compiling restriction after restriction and, for the last two or three hundred years before Christ's days on earth, been studying according to the principles of pagan thought as they had adopted the principles of Greek reasoning. God had taught them to study His revelation through His prophets to see what it contained, and they had moved to studying from the Greek perspective of skepticism in which a person tears things apart as much as they can according to their own ideas of what makes sense and what doesn't.

We are still educated along those lines today. Greek principles of thought still dominate in our culture today.

Oh sorry, I didn't see that post in the previous page. Tx for clarifying.

Well I don't think it has anything to do with Gary said. To me Jesus was the lamb that redeemed all the Asses. Right? I'm wondering...can we say that Jesus was one of these asses that needed redemption?

Another thing I see ... the firstborn can NEVER (when I capitalize I'm not yelling...only emphasizing) be born of a MAN.... a child is always born of a WOMAN. Whereas...a child is always CONCEIVE by a MAN. These are very different and we need to understand the difference between the two and what these means in a New Covenant context (aka spiritually).

I see these natural illustration as very specific Biblical Language that gives very basic salvatic truths of the plan of salvation. The problem is do we understand the basic foundation of salvation illustrated in the law and what these means to us today who lives according to the New Covenant?

This redeeming an ASS with a lamb... is the basis foundation of the PASSOVER by which originates our "Righteousness by Faith" message.

Just in passage...I do intend to come to Gary's discussion of "Righteousness by Faith". It just take some time since I got other discussion I promise to answer, and having less time on my hand to study and write. But these are important foundational truth we need to make sure we get it straight.

We agree on that.

Well, that's great. I am glad we agree on at least one thing. It gives us some common understanding to build on.

I am not totally sure what you intend by this statement. Could you please elaborate.