Six of the cities assigned to the Levites--three on each side the Jordan--were appointed as cities of refuge, to which the manslayer might flee for safety. The appointment of these cities had been commanded by Moses, "that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares. And they shall be unto you cities for refuge," he said, "that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment." Numbers 35:11, 12. This merciful provision was rendered necessary by the ancient custom of private vengeance, by which the punishment of the murderer devolved on the nearest relative or the next heir of the deceased. In cases where guilt was clearly evident it was not necessary to wait for a trial by the magistrates. The avenger might pursue the criminal anywhere and put him to death wherever he should be found. The Lord did not see fit to abolish this custom at that time, but He made provision to ensure the safety of those who should take life unintentionally. {PP 515.2}

The cities of refuge were so distributed as to be within a half day's journey of every part of the land. The roads leading to them were always to be kept in good repair; all along the way signposts were to be erected bearing the word "Refuge" in plain, bold characters, that the fleeing one might not be delayed for a moment. Any person--Hebrew, stranger, or sojourner--might avail himself of this provision. But while the guiltless were not to be rashly slain, neither were the guilty to escape punishment. The case of the fugitive was to be fairly tried by the proper authorities, and only when found innocent of intentional murder was he to be protected in the city of refuge. The guilty were given up to the avenger. And those who were entitled to protection could receive it only on condition of remaining within the appointed refuge. Should one wander away beyond the prescribed limits, and be found by the avenger of blood, his life would pay the penalty of his disregard of the Lord's provision. At the death of the high priest, however, all who had sought shelter in the cities of refuge were at liberty to return to their possessions. {PP 515.3}

In a trial for murder the accused was not to be condemned on the testimony of one witness, even though circumstantial evidence might be strong against him. The Lord's direction was, "Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die." Numbers 35:30. It was Christ who gave to Moses these directions for Israel; and when personally with His disciples on earth, as He taught them how to treat the erring, the Great Teacher repeated the lesson that one man's testimony is not to acquit or condemn. One man's views and opinions are not to settle disputed questions. In all these matters two or more are to be associated, and together they are to bear the responsibility, "that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." Matthew 18:16. {PP 516.1}

If the one tried for murder were proved guilty, no atonement or ransom could rescue him. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." Genesis 9:6. "Ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death." "Thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die," was the command of God; "the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it." Numbers 35:31, 33; Exodus 21:14. The safety and purity of the nation demanded that the sin of murder be severely punished. Human life, which God alone could give, must be sacredly guarded. {PP 516.2}

... Jesus describes murder as first existing in the mind. That malice and revenge which would delight in deeds of violence is of itself murder. Jesus goes further still, and says, "Whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the Judgment." There is an anger that is not of this criminal nature. A certain kind of indignation is justifiable, under some circumstances, even in the followers of Christ. When they see God dishonored, his name reviled, and the precious cause of truth brought into disrepute by those who profess to revere it, when they see the innocent oppressed and persecuted, a righteous indignation stirs their soul; such anger, born of sensitive morals, is not a sin. ...

January 20, 1881 The Cities of Refuge.

By Mrs. E. G. White.

At the command of God, Moses fixed the future boundaries of the land of Canaan. He then proceeded to select a prince from each tribe, and committed to them the work of dividing the land by lot among the different tribes when they should come in possession. In this arrangement the tribe of Levi alone was exempted. They were considered as especially set apart to the service of God, and hence were given no inheritance among their brethren. Instead of this, forty-eight cities in different parts of the country were to be assigned them, as a permanent dwelling-place. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 1}
And now the Lord proceeded to give his people another evidence of his care and tender compassion for the unfortunate and the erring. To provide for the effectual punishment of murder, it was customary in ancient times for the execution of the murderer to devolve upon the nearest relative or the next heir of the deceased; and in extreme cases the avenger might pursue the criminal anywhere, and execute vengeance upon him without the formality of a trial. While the Lord would have the crime of murder regarded with great abhorrence, he would carefully guard the innocent. Hence, without entirely destroying the custom of private vengeance, he makes the most thorough provision that the guiltless be not rashly slain without trial, nor the guilty escape punishment. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 2}
Of the cities assigned to the Levites, six were appointed as cities of refuge, to which the man-slayer might flee for safety. This provision was not designed for the willful murderer; but "that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person unawares." "And they shall be unto you cities of refuge, that the man-slayer die not until he stand before the congregation in judgment." Special directions were given to determine whether the man was guilty of willful murder, or had taken life by accident. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 3}
The cities so wisely provided were to be located within a half-day's journey of every part of the land. It would not often happen that the avenger of blood would be in the spot, hence the unfortunate man-slayer would have an opportunity to flee, and but few would be overtaken before they gained the place of safety. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 4}
But if the fugitive would escape with his life, there must be no delay; family and employment must be left behind, there was no time to say farewell to loved ones. His life is at stake, and every other interest must be sacrificed to the one purpose,--to reach the city of refuge. Weariness is forgotten, difficulties are unheeded. He does not for one moment slacken his pace until he is safe within the walls of the city. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 5}
The roads to these cities were always to be kept in good repair; all along the way, sign-posts were to be erected bearing the word Refuge in plain, bold characters, that the fleeing one might not hesitate for a moment. Any person,--Hebrew, stranger, or sojourner,--might avail himself of this provision. The case of the fugitive was to be fairly tried by the proper authorities, and if found guiltless of intended murder he was to be protected in the city of refuge. Should he carelessly wander away beyond the prescribed limits, and the avenger of blood find him, his life would pay the penalty of his disregard for the Lord's provision. Those who remained within the city until the death of the high-priest were then at liberty to return to their possessions. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 6}
Among the specific directions for the trial of persons suspected of murder were the following: "Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses; but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die." How wise and just is this injunction. If the charge was supported by only one witness, the accused person was not to be condemned, although circumstantial evidence might be strong against him. On the other hand, if proved guilty no atonement or ransom could rescue him. However distinguished his position might be, he must suffer the penalty of his crime. The safety and purity of the nation demanded that the sin of murder be severely punished. Human life, which God alone could give, must be sacredly guarded. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 7}
The blood of the victim, like the blood of Abel, will cry to God for vengeance on the murderer and on all who shield him from the punishment of his crime. Whosoever,--be it individual or city,--will excuse the crime of the murderer, when convinced of his guilt, is a partaker of his sin, and will surely suffer the wrath of God. The Lord designed to impress upon his people the terrible guilt of murder, while he would make the most thorough and merciful provision for the acquittal of the innocent. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 8}
God understands the perversity of the human heart. Personal enmity, or the prospect of personal advantage, has ruined the reputation and usefulness of thousands of innocent men, and in many cases has resulted in their condemnation and death. The worthless lives of violent and wicked men have been preserved by a bribe, while those who were guilty of no crime against the laws of the nation have been made to suffer. By their wealth or power, men of rank corrupt the judges and bring false witness against the innocent. The provision that none should be condemned on the testimony of one witness, was both just and necessary. One man might be controlled by prejudice, selfishness, or malice. But it was not likely that two or more persons would be so perverted as to unite in bearing false witness; and even should they do so, a separate examination would lead to a discovery of the truth. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 9}
This merciful provision contains a lesson for the people of God until the close of time. It was Christ who gave to Moses those explicit directions for the Hebrew host; and when personally with his disciples on earth, the great Leader repeated the same lesson as he taught them, how to treat the erring. One man's testimony was not to acquit or to condemn. One man's views and opinions were not to settle disputed questions. In all these matters, two or more were to be associated, and together they were to bear the responsibility in the case. God has made it the duty of his servants to be subject one to another. No one man's judgment is to control in any important matter. Mutual consideration and respect imparts proper dignity to the ministry, and unites the servants of God in close bonds of love and harmony. While they should depend upon God for strength and wisdom, ministers of the gospel should confer together in all matters requiring deliberation. "That by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 10}
The laws instituted by God for the prevention and punishment of crime were marked by strict and impartial justice. But the sinfulness of man perverts the wisest laws, both human and divine. It is because men in authority can be bribed to excuse sin, and let the guilty pass unpunished that justice has fallen in the streets, and equity cannot enter. These evils are causing the earth to become as corrupt as in the days of Noah. The most terrible crimes are becoming so common as hardly to awaken a feeling of horror. Our own nation is guilty before God of permitting the most atrocious crimes to pass unheeded. The accumulating weight of unpunished sin is sinking the nation to destruction. The wrongs they do not condemn and punish are making this people the subjects of God's retributive justice. Licentiousness, robbery, and murder, continually on the increase, are deluging our world, and preparing it to receive the unmingled wrath of God. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 11}
The injunctions of God to the Hebrews should cause us to be filled with horror at the thought of even unintentionally destroying a human life. But when man is put to death by his fellow-man, to serve some selfish purpose, --as Naboth was slain that Ahab might obtain the coveted vineyard,--what honor [horror], what anguish, should be felt by those who make and execute the laws! How zealous should be their efforts to ascertain the facts, and then decide the case with strict integrity, and execute the penalty with impartial justice. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 12}
It was the opposite course pursued by the antediluvian world that made the growth of wickedness so rapid, and violence and crime so widespread, that God cleansed the earth from its moral pollution by a flood. It was the fact that licentiousness and murder were lightly regarded that fitted Sodom for God's judgments. Had those in authority taken upon themselves the work which the Lord had appointed them,--fathers commencing in their own families to correct wrong, and magistrates and rulers acting with promptness and decision to punish the guilty,--others would have feared, and crime would have decreased. God would not then have deemed it necessary to take the matter in hand himself, and by terrible things in righteousness, execute the justice which had been perverted by men in authority. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 13}
To increase the horrors of murder, and aid in the detection of the criminal, the Lord ordained that when the body of a murdered person was found in the land, the most solemn and public ceremony should be held, under the direction of the magistrates and elders in connection with the priests of God's appointment. "If one be found slain in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee to possess it, lying in the field, and it be not known who hath slain him; then thy elders and thy judges shall come forth, and they shall measure unto the cities which are round about him that is slain; and it shall be, that the city which is next unto the slain man, even the elders of that city shall take a heifer, which hath not been wrought with, and which hath not drawn in the yoke; and the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley. And the priests, the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the Lord thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the Lord: and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried. And all the elders of that city, that are next unto the slain man, shall wash their hands over the heifer that is beheaded in the valley; and they shall answer and say, Our hands have not shed this blood, neither have our eyes seen it. Be merciful, O Lord, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel's charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them. So shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the Lord." {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 14}
After the most diligent search had failed to discover the murderer, the rulers were by this solemn ceremony to show their abhorrence of the crime. They were not to regard with carelessness and negligence the deeds of the guilty. In all their acts they were to show that sin has a contaminating influence,--that it leaves a stain upon every land and every person who will not by all possible means seek to bring the wrong-doer to justice. God regards as his enemies those who will by any act of negligence shield the guilty. They are in his sight partakers in the evil deeds of the sinner. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 15}
Here are lessons which God's people at the present day should take to heart. There are grievous sins indulged by individual members of the church,--covetousness, over-reaching, deception, fraud, falsehood, and many others. If these sins are neglected by those who have been placed in authority in the church, the blessing of the Lord is withheld from his people, and the innocent suffer with the guilty. The officers in the church should be earnest, energetic men, having a zeal for God, and they should take the most prompt and thorough measures to condemn and correct these wrongs. In this work they should act, not from selfishness, jealousy, or personal prejudice, but in all meekness and lowliness of mind, with a sincere desire that God may be glorified. Inhumanity, false dealing, prevarication, licentiousness, and other sins, are not to be palliated or excused; for they will speedily demoralize the church. Sin may be called by false names, and glossed over by plausible excuses and pretended good motives, but this does not lessen its guilt in the sight of God. Wherever it may be found, sin is offensive to God, and will surely meet its punishment. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 16}
The cities of refuge appointed for God's ancient people are a symbol of the Refuge provided and revealed in Jesus Christ. The offering made by our Saviour was of sufficient value to make a full expiation for the sins of the whole world, and all who by repentance and faith flee to this Refuge, will find security; here they will find peace from the heaviest pressure of guilt, and relief from the deepest condemnation. By the atoning sacrifice of Christ, and his work of mediation in our behalf, we may become reconciled to God. The blood of Christ will prove efficacious to wash away the crimson stain of sin. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 17}
A merciful Saviour appointed the temporal cities of refuge, that the innocent might not suffer with the guilty. The same pitying Saviour has by the shedding of his own blood wrought out for the transgressors of God's law a sure Refuge, into which they may flee for safety from the pangs of the second death. And no power can take out of his hands the souls who flee to him for pardon. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 18}
As the man-slayer was in constant peril until within the city of refuge, so is the transgressor of God's law exposed to divine wrath until he finds a hiding-place in Christ. As loitering and carelessness might rob the fugitive of his only chance for life, so delays and indifference may prove the ruin of the soul. Our adversary, the devil, is on the watch constantly to destroy the souls of men, and unless the sinner is sensible of his danger and earnestly seeks shelter in the eternal Refuge, he will fall a prey to the destroyer. {ST, January 20, 1881 par. 19}

The transgression of God's law in a single instance, in the smallest particular, is sin. And the nonexecution of the penalty of that sin would be a crime in the divine administration. God is a judge, the Avenger of justice, which is the habitation and the foundation of His throne. He cannot dispense with His law; He cannot do away with its smallest item in order to meet and pardon sin. The rectitude, justice, and moral excellence of the law must be maintained and vindicated before the heavenly universe and the worlds unfallen.--Manuscript 145, Dec. 30, 1897, "Notes of Work." {UL 378.6}

4, 5. What Is the Justice of God?--The transgression of God's law in a single instance, in the smallest particular, is sin. And the nonexecution of the penalty of that sin would be a crime in the divine administration. God is a judge, the avenger of justice, which is the habitation and foundation of His throne. He cannot dispense with His law, He cannot do away with its smallest item in order to meet and pardon sin. The rectitude and justice and moral excellence of the law must be maintained and vindicated before the heavenly universe and the worlds unfallen. {7BC 951.4}
What is the justice of God? It is the holiness of God in relation to sin. Christ bore the sins of the world in man's behalf that the sinner might have another trial, with all the divine opportunities and advantages which God has provided in man's behalf (MS 145, 1897). {7BC 951.5}

The transgression of God's law in a single instance, in the smallest particular, is sin. And the non-execution of the penalty of that sin would be a crime in the divine administration. God is a judge, the avenger of justice, which is the habitation and foundation of His throne. He cannot dispense with His law, He cannot do away with its smallest item in order to meet and pardon sin. The rectitude and justice and moral excellence of the law must be maintained and vindicated before the heavenly universe and the worlds unfallen. {21MR 194.3}

19 (Psalm 119:126; Luke 18:1-7; Revelation 6:9). Protector and Avenger.--When the defiance of God's law is almost universal, when His people are pressed in affliction by their fellow men, God will interpose. Then will the voice be heard from the graves of martyrs, represented by the souls that John saw slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ, which they held--then the prayer will ascend from every true child of God: "It is time for thee, Lord, to work: for they have made void thy law." {6BC 1081.5}
The fervent prayers of His people will be answered; for God loves to have His people seek Him with all the heart, and depend upon Him as their deliverer. He will be sought unto to do these things for His people, and He will arise as their protector and avenger. "Shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him" (RH Dec. 21, 1897)? {6BC 1081.6}

The original apostasy began in a disbelief and denial of the truth. We are to fix the eye of faith steadfastly upon Jesus. When the days come, as they surely will, in which the law of God is made void, the zeal of the true and loyal should rise with the emergency, and should be the more warm and decided, and their testimony should be the more positive and unflinching. But we are to do nothing in a defiant spirit, and we shall not if our hearts are fully surrendered to God. "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject not only for wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor." "Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work." {SpTA01b 10.1}

The earnest prayers of this faithful few will not be in vain. When the Lord comes forth as an avenger, He will also come as a protector of all those who have preserved the faith in its purity and kept themselves unspotted from the world. It is at this time that God has promised to avenge His own elect which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them. {5T 210.1}

The command is: "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof." These sighing, crying ones had been holding forth the words of life; they had reproved, counseled, and entreated. Some who had been dishonoring God repented and humbled their hearts before Him. But the glory of the Lord had departed from Israel; although many still continued the forms of religion, His power and presence were lacking. {5T 210.2}

In the time when His wrath shall go forth in judgments, these humble, devoted followers of Christ will be distinguished from the rest of the world by their soul anguish, which is expressed in lamentation and weeping, reproofs and warnings. While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God's honor and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous. They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and hence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see religion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light. They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonored, the truth made of none effect. {5T 210.3}

But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die; Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote [him] shall surely be put to death; [for] he [is] a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.

Admittedly, the Bible never says "murder = hateful killing" in so many words. But the Bible prescribes capital punishment for murder, and then distinguishes certain classes of killing from that, which are exempt from capital punishment. It's a very small step in logic, actually.

Any of those constituted "murder," and the murderer was to be put to death. But how could one put a murderer to death if all killings were "murder"? What would happen to the nation of Israel if they were commanded to kill murderers, and killers were automatically murderers themselves, so then someone else must kill the one who killed the murderer, and then someone would need to kill the "murderer" who killed the murderer's "murderer," ad infinitum? Of course, even one murder under such a circumstance would have required the death of all Israel!

One who had not committed murder, but had killed someone accidentally, was NOT to be killed. This, clearly, puts a difference between murder and killing.

Those who did their duty strictly from a sense of duty and justice were not counted murderers, and they were not to be punished with death as were murderers.

kland,

Perhaps a short table will help to clarify my understanding of the Bible's perspective.

Killing vs. Murder
Killing	Text	Murder	Text
Killing "any person at unawares"	Numbers 35:11	Killing "with an instrument of iron"

Murder is a specific type of killing, which the Bible defines as motivated by hatred (which can be further recognized by such things as premeditation, lying in wait, etc.).

An avenger of blood was to do his duty without hatred. It is not my understanding that he was permitted to pursue or chase the murderer to kill him. That would have been murder. He was only required to kill the murderer if he chanced to meet him. It was not his duty to seek the murderer to kill him. Doing so would have been an indication of hatred on the avenger's part, which would have made him guilty of murder himself if he killed the murderer in such a manner.

Green, does repeating what you said in any way answer my question? Shall we conclude you mean, "yes"?

Ok, let's go with this portion:
It's the avenger's duty to kill murderer, but they cannot pursue him.
He cannot lie in wait.
He was only to kill upon accidentally meeting him.
If he were to seek to kill, it would be considered murder.

Is that accurate of what you were trying to say?

What is military action by the a 21st century country, say, the United States, against a foe - killing or murder? Is there lying in wait involved? Is there the throwing of iron, perhaps as a JDAM involved? Which is it?

I will not venture to declare that all of our modern wars have been for righteous causes. Certainly, some were not--in which case, they would be murders, aka "war crimes" or "crimes against humanity."

I believe that God sees it much as man does on this point.

God at times commanded war, even genocide, for His honor and for the purification of sin from the world.

Remember that a man was permitted to kill a thief who broke into his home at night without incurring the guilt of murder. A man may protect his household, and a nation may protect its people. There is no "murder" in this.

That looks like what I remember the Bible saying on the topic, yes. I'm on the road right now, and as the bus ride is bumpy, it's harder to read, so I won't say I have caught every nuance of what you are summarizing on my behalf, but I think you've got it about the way I was saying.

I guess I would ask if the war is a righteous one.

The "lying in wait" is not applicable when we consider wars and battle tactics.

Remember that a man was permitted to kill a thief who broke into his home at night without incurring the guilt of murder.

MOTIVE is crucial.

MOTIVE is crucial

Murder or not? CLICK HERE

MOTIVE is crucial. Also JUST CAUSE. If a person kills in hatred, Biblically that is murder. Period.

One entire class of killing is also exempt from the "murder" classification: capital punishment. Capital punishments were commanded by God in love for His people to preserve their purity.

Capital crimes included adultery, rape, murder, rebellion against parents, cursing God, as well as certain things that were applied to priests in order to preserve their high office (dignity), e.g. the high priest who rent his robe was to be put to death.

kland, basically I would be cautious about looking for contradictions in the examples. Look instead for the underlying principles.

32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, [and] go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

The mild and yielding spirit of Aaron, and his desire to please the people, blinded his eyes to their sins and to the enormity of the crime that he was sanctioning. His course in giving influence to wrong and sin in Israel cost the lives of three thousand men. In what contrast with this is the course of Moses. After he had evidenced to the people that they could not trifle with God with impunity; after he had shown them the just displeasure of God because of their sins, by giving the terrible decree to slay friends or relatives who persisted in their apostasy; after the work of justice to turn away the wrath of God, irrespective of their feelings of sympathy for loved friends and relatives who continued obstinate in their rebellion--after this, Moses was prepared for another work. He proved who was the true friend of God and the friend of the people. {3T 303.1}

Hello GREEN - - Did God give rules for divorce? YES! Does not divorce lead to a violation of the ten commandments? YES. WHY did God give such rules? Because of the hardness of their hearts. Did the nation of Israel fight all through out its existence? YES. Because this is what God wanted? NO!!! Did God give commands for how to conduct war? YES! WHY? Because Israel was going to fight, because their hearts were blinded. WHY do YOU remain BLIND? Is the testimony of Jesus of non-effect to you? What was Jesus's testimony? DO NOT FIGHT! Israel in the Old Testament never needed to fight. Did they fight to get out of Egypt? No. Did Gideon fight? No. Did Jehoshaphat have to fight? No. He sang! Put your trust in God, not weapons. Our sword is the word of God.

Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son!

kland,

You seem to be overly focused on the examples rather than the underlying principles. If you want to say that throwing stones or using an instrument of iron (a sword certainly is one) is always murder, then you have a problem with acts of war, which are NOT murder, or with acts commanded by God for the benefit of His people--again NOT murder.

Let's look at two examples:

God never commands us to break His commandments.

We are not ready for more light unless we follow the light we already have.

Killing vs. Murder
Killing	Text	Murder	Text
Killing "any person at unawares"	Numbers 35:11	Killing "with an instrument of iron"	Numbers 35:16
As the "revenger of blood," killing the murderer "when he meeteth him," without hatred, lying in wait, etc.	Numbers 35:19-21	Killing by "throwing a stone wherewith he may die"	Numbers 35:17
Killing a neighbor ignorantly, such as when the ax head slips off the handle and strikes him while cutting wood	Deuteronomy 19:4-5	"But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die.	Deuteronomy 19:11-12

Given just that, can a reasonable person conclude that the Bible makes a distinction between different types of killing?

In which column does Stoning belong, left or right?

In which column does Stoning belong, left or right?

asygo, I see you repeated Green's examples which he has now refuted as relating to the topic thread.

Can you specify the principle given in your examples for distinguishing between murder and killing?

No. It isn't addressing any distinction between murder and killing.

If you can't see any distinction in the Biblical instructions regarding those two cases, there really is no point in asking someone to explain the distinction to you.

There are none so blind as they who will not see. Pride of opinion blinds many eyes. It is human nature. But it is something which we need to overcome if we wish to follow Jesus and His light.

"The slumbering faculties of the Jewish people are to be aroused. . . . Souls will be saved from the Jewish nation, as the doors of the New Testament are unlocked with the key of the Old Testament. . . . Many of the Jewish people will by faith receive Christ as their Redeemer." {PUR, March 23, 1905 par. 1}

The same night he revealed himself to the disciples assembled at Jerusalem. He did not point to the mighty works which he had done, to awaken their faith in him as the promised Redeemer. But he went back to Moses and the prophets and explained the scriptures concerning himself. The Old Testament, the "sure word of prophecy," is the only key that will unlock the New Testament Scriptures, and show that Jesus Christ revealed in the gospel is the Son of God, the long-expected Messiah. {RH, September 14, 1886 par. 16}

Let's address this first: is there a Biblical distinction between the left and the right columns?

...

If you can't see any distinction in the Biblical instructions regarding those two cases, there really is no point in asking someone to explain the distinction to you. It would be like asking someone to explain how it is possible for a negative number to have a square root - no point explaining how until everyone agrees it exists.

If you can't see any distinction in the Biblical instructions regarding those two cases, there really is no point in asking someone to explain the distinction to you.

There are none so blind as they who will not see. Pride of opinion blinds many eyes. It is human nature. But it is something which we need to overcome if we wish to follow Jesus and His light.

In the case of murder vs. killing, the ripple effect from this belief touches many other beliefs, including, most importantly, one's understanding of the nature of God Himself--such as whether or not He will punish the sinner. Less importantly, it touches on Bible translations and versions, church authority, and obedience to God in spite of not understanding His commands--not to say that these things are unimportant. Any one of these things may affect one's salvation.

I see.

So if I don't understand the difference, then I don't deserve to know the difference.

Green, even though you say I am getting caught up in the examples you give, even though you say I need to understand the principle, even though I ask you for the principle of the examples you give, you have yet to give the principle. Is that because you do not know it? Is that because you see the fallacy of the examples you give? Is that because you realize talking about revengers of killing have nothing to do with making any such distinction?

What a twisted view of love. Please, show your view from the words of Jesus? You can't. Christ's commandments were to turn the other cheek, to do GOOD to your enemy. That is pretty simple.

I have shown you in a post that Jesus got His view of God from the OLD TESTAMENT. You deleted the post as off topic.

God's love included the most unjust death in the universe, that of His Son, Jesus. Jesus showed us the consequences of sin. He suffered sin's penalty. How as the Godhead involved? Did the Godhead torture Christ? Did the Godhead kill Christ? NO. Sin pays its wage - death.

If sin was the cause of Christ's death, then sin had overpowered Him. No, Christ's death wasn't sin paying Him wages, since He had no sin.

Don't you remember the quote about death having no power in Christ's presence? To say that sin killed Jesus as its wages would admit sin's mastery over God.