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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#158774
11/27/13 05:40 AM
11/27/13 05:40 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Jsot asks, Is Satan cut off from God now? No. If Satan were completely cut off, He would die. This in integral the the issues in the great controversy. So all this time, God is keeping Satan alive artificially, letting him suffer thousands of years' worth of sin. All for the sake of the Great Controversy. I thought you didn't believe God would do that. And I thought you believed that people like Korah died because God HAD to leave them unprotected from natural forces and they died by natural causes. How come God can continue to protect Satan all these years, but not Korah?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Daryl]
#158775
11/27/13 05:41 AM
11/27/13 05:41 AM
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******* DUPLICATE POST OF #158774 *******
Last edited by Daryl; 12/05/13 01:32 AM. Reason: Duplicate Post of #158774
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: asygo]
#158777
11/27/13 06:58 AM
11/27/13 06:58 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Jsot asks, Is Satan cut off from God now? No. If Satan were completely cut off, He would die. This in integral the the issues in the great controversy. So all this time, God is keeping Satan alive artificially, letting him suffer thousands of years' worth of sin. All for the sake of the Great Controversy. I thought you didn't believe God would do that. And I thought you believed that people like Korah died because God HAD to leave them unprotected from natural forces and they died by natural causes. How come God can continue to protect Satan all these years, but not Korah? Perhaps you have not read Patriarchs and Prophets chapter 1 recently. To that I would as Great Controversy Chapter 29.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#158778
11/27/13 07:52 AM
11/27/13 07:52 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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What a wonder. I started reading again Patriarchs and Prophets, but have not yet completed the first chapter. I am more determined to use this book as a Christmas present to some loved ones who do not have a copy.
Thank you for the challenge.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Johann]
#158783
11/27/13 03:22 PM
11/27/13 03:22 PM
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M: Jesus commanded Moses to kill criminals and combatants. We cannot, without ignoring the plainest utterances of God's Word, force every incident in the Bible to fit the withdraw and permit principle of punishment.
A: I also have repeatedly said, that the people did execute their enemies, and with God's instructions. Please explain how the withdraw and permit principle of punishment fits Jesus commanding Moses to kill criminals and combatants. PS - You wrote, "Never said Moses had unbelief." Why, then, did Jesus command Moses to kill? 1) "Yet divine strength is to be combined with human effort. Moses did not believe that God would overcome their foes while Israel remained inactive." 2) "The case was brought by Moses before the Lord, and the direction was given, "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#158784
11/27/13 03:24 PM
11/27/13 03:24 PM
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M: As you can read, there are things that will happen during the final judgment that clearly did not happen when Jesus drank the cup of trembling on the cross. In fact, there are startling dissimilarities. When Jesus paid our sin debt of death the earth was not enveloped in flames and molten lava. Nor did He writhe in flames tailored to punish. Even though He bore the sins of the world, Jesus died in six hours. Not so with sinners. "Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days." The most notable difference, however, is the fact Jesus was alive when He triumphantly cried out, "It is finished." He conquered the cup, the second death and lived to rise on the third day.
A: Hey - I can continue to play the game. Read GC page 36. Tag - your it. "The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." (GC 36) Please explain how GC 36 addresses the distinct differences between Jesus' experience (beginning in Gethsemane and ending on Golgotha) and the experience of the resurrected unsaved in the Lake of Fire (see GC 672, 673). I ask because you cited Jesus' experience and suggested it reflects how Jesus will punish the resurrected unsaved in the Lake of Fire.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#158785
11/27/13 03:33 PM
11/27/13 03:33 PM
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APL,
1. How does Jesus prevent sin from killing us every time we sin?
2. Is He preventing the first death or the second death?
3. Is Jesus preventing sin from killing evil angels?
4. How does sin kill sinners?
5. If sin kills sinners, why will Jesus employ fire to punish sinners in duration and intensity according to their sinfulness?
6. If sin kills sinners, why would eating from the tree of life enable them to live forever?
7. What would happen to a sinner who lied about reaching the summit of a mountain if Jesus were to allow sin to run its natural course? How would sin kill him? Would sin use the forces of nature to kill him (like a flood, a fire, a plague, or something of the sort)?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#158787
11/27/13 06:11 PM
11/27/13 06:11 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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APL,
1. How does Jesus prevent sin from killing us every time we sin?
2. Is He preventing the first death or the second death?
3. Is Jesus preventing sin from killing evil angels?
4. How does sin kill sinners?
5. If sin kills sinners, why will Jesus employ fire to punish sinners in duration and intensity according to their sinfulness?
6. If sin kills sinners, why would eating from the tree of life enable them to live forever?
7. What would happen to a sinner who lied about reaching the summit of a mountain if Jesus were to allow sin to run its natural course? How would sin kill him? Would sin use the forces of nature to kill him (like a flood, a fire, a plague, or something of the sort)? As I have observed, you have a very different view of sin than I have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you see sin as a breaking of the rules, a legal problem. Am I right? The understanding of sin is needed in order to understand the answers to these questions.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#158789
11/27/13 10:35 PM
11/27/13 10:35 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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An interesting quotation in the Sabbath School lesson nr. 8:
“Jesus Christ came that He might link finite man with the infinite God, and connect earth that has been divorced by sin and transgression from heaven.”—Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks, vol. 1, p. 253.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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