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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: jamesonofthunder] #158881
11/30/13 01:22 PM
11/30/13 01:22 PM
APL  Offline
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How to "breath fire" on to some one: Proverbs 25:21-22 If your enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 22 For you shall heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD shall reward you.

Romans 12:20-21 Therefore if your enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

How does Jesus treat sinners? John 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said to her, Woman, where are those your accusers? has no man condemned you? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more.

God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. {GC 36.1}

How does God treat His enemies when they attack him? Answer - look at Jesus on the cross. There is your answer.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #158899
11/30/13 07:01 PM
11/30/13 07:01 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
How to "breath fire" on to some one: Proverbs 25:21-22 If your enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 22 For you shall heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD shall reward you.


You know very well that you are totally taking that quote out of context.

"Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. This was the execution of the judgment. The wicked then received according as the saints, in unison with Jesus, had meted out to them during the one thousand years. The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. The broken, ragged mountains melted with fervent heat, the atmosphere also, and all the stubble was consumed. Then our inheritance opened before us, glorious and beautiful, and we inherited the whole earth made new. We all shouted with a loud voice, “Glory; Alleluia!” {EW 54.1}


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: jamesonofthunder] #158903
11/30/13 08:09 PM
11/30/13 08:09 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Originally Posted By: APL
How to "breath fire" on to some one: Proverbs 25:21-22 If your enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 22 For you shall heap coals of fire on his head, and the LORD shall reward you.


You know very well that you are totally taking that quote out of context.

"Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. This was the execution of the judgment. The wicked then received according as the saints, in unison with Jesus, had meted out to them during the one thousand years. The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. The broken, ragged mountains melted with fervent heat, the atmosphere also, and all the stubble was consumed. Then our inheritance opened before us, glorious and beautiful, and we inherited the whole earth made new. We all shouted with a loud voice, “Glory; Alleluia!” {EW 54.1}
Great Controversy 36 is not our context, and applies directly. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression. What is the sentence against transgression? The second death.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #158906
11/30/13 10:04 PM
11/30/13 10:04 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, you assume too much. Forcing every inspired insight to fit the withdraw and permit principle of punishment undermines the integrity of truth.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #158911
12/01/13 01:05 AM
12/01/13 01:05 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, you assume too much. Forcing every inspired insight to fit the withdraw and permit principle of punishment undermines the integrity of truth.
MM - have you considered the context of GC 36? It is talking about the second death. If any time it applies, it applies there.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #158928
12/01/13 03:17 PM
12/01/13 03:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, GC 36 describes the "second coming". "Christ has declared that He will come the second time to gather His faithful ones to Himself". GC 672, 673 describes the second death in the lake of fire in terrifying detail. Jesus will employ fire from above and from below to punish resurrected sinners in duration and in intensity according to their sinfulness. The same fire that burns alive the wicked will burn up the rubble and rubbish of the earth. No trace of sin or sinners will remain. Jesus will remake the earth anew - the home of the saved forever and ever. Amen!

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #158932
12/01/13 05:59 PM
12/01/13 05:59 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
GC 36 is talking about the "sentence against transgression". What is the sentence against transgression? The second death, not the second coming.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #158946
12/02/13 05:01 PM
12/02/13 05:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
"The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

You're right, APL. The punishment for sinning is not a lifetime of suffering and first death. The punishment for sinning is suffering and second death in the lake of fire. GC 672, 673 describes their experience in the lake of fire. There are stark and startling dissimilarities between the suffering and first death Jews experienced in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the suffering and second death sinners will experience in the lake of fire after the Millennium.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #159021
12/06/13 08:06 AM
12/06/13 08:06 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
"The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

You're right, APL. The punishment for sinning is not a lifetime of suffering and first death. The punishment for sinning is suffering and second death in the lake of fire. GC 672, 673 describes their experience in the lake of fire. There are stark and startling dissimilarities between the suffering and first death Jews experienced in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the suffering and second death sinners will experience in the lake of fire after the Millennium.
And the sinner brings the punishment on themselves.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #159023
12/06/13 08:09 AM
12/06/13 08:09 AM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Green - I'll give you a hint, EGW "It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare" {PP 392.3} But, warfare the did have. Why? God wanted it? Nope.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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